Tommy Dreamer's Deal Is Almost Up

[Jack-Hammer]

According to a little snippet I read a little while ago, Tommy Dreamer's deal with TNA is set to expire in about a month's time. His time in TNA has been pretty lackluster, though I don't think that's much of a shock to most people. Do you think TNA should resign Dreamer? And, if so, in what capacity?

I've never been a fan of Tommy Dreamer. I think he's very much the epitome of an overrated IWC darling and brings nothing to the table in TNA. There's a locker room filled with younger, heathlier and overall much more talented wrestlers.

 

[MrHashasheen]

According to a little snippet I read a little while ago, Tommy Dreamer's deal with TNA is set to expire in about a month's time. His time in TNA has been pretty lackluster, though I don't think that's much of a shock to most people. Do you think TNA should resign Dreamer? And, if so, in what capacity?

I've never been a fan of Tommy Dreamer. I think he's very much the epitome of an overrated IWC darling and brings nothing to the table in TNA. There's a locker room filled with younger, heathlier and overall much more talented wrestlers.

Tommy Dreamer an IWC darling? Since when? Anyway, I don't think he should be brought back. He was supposedly brought on primarily to help with creative and as a backstage hand, yet we've seen him feud with AJ Styles and lead E.V for months on end, with victories over Fortune and other stars that TNA should be pushing. Let the contract run out, IMO.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

I have no issue with Dreamer being in TNA, as an agent or in some backstage capacity, the same as I have no issue with D-Lo Brown or Al Snow either. Dreamer's problem is that he's not a big enough name to warrant being on the show as often as he is and in such high profile angles as he is when there are very talented people behind him just begging for an opportunity to prove themselves.

Hell, I'd even accept one or two matches with him a year if it was required, but with the amount of television time he's been getting, and with the profile of the feuds he's been involved in, there's just no reason for it. This isn't Ric Fair we're talking about here.

 

[Rayne]

It can't be denied that Tommy Dreamer has a head for the business. He's worked at every level of professional wrestling; the man has experience. TNA has a lot of young guys- and they're constantly bringing in younger ones whose prior experience is, at absolute best, ROH, and Dreamer would be an excellent mentor for them. He'd also make one helluva agent. Not many guys have more respect in the back than Dreamer.

On camera though.... this isn't 1998. Dreamer's never been over anywhere except for ECW. He's been an accepted, familiar quantity (which isn't necessarily bad.) I don't see how anyone can elevate their careers or do anything more than occupy camera time with him though; people just don't really care about Tommy Dreamer as a performer.

He's worth keeping around, because there are only so many wrestlers with the kind of experience that he has (that aren't dead at a young age.) But ECW is a long gone memory, except to the 5 people that bought Hardcore Justice. Keep him backstage. Maybe he'd have the kind of authority in back that would keep junkies from stumbling down your ramp on PPV.

 

[Iversen]

Dreamer should be working behind the scenes. He's got a head for the buisness.

I'd have no problem with him being using as enhancement talent. You want to put a young guy over you can have him beat Dreamer but having him feuding with AJ is just horrible. Especially when Dreamer then wins.

So yea give him a job in the back and have him make the occasional appearance and I see no reason why you shouldn't keep him.

 

[AntiChristDeicide]

Dreamer should be working behind the scenes. He's got a head for the buisness.

I'd have no problem with him being using as enhancement talent. You want to put a young guy over you can have him beat Dreamer but having him feuding with AJ is just horrible. Especially when Dreamer then wins.

So yea give him a job in the back and have him make the occasional appearance and I see no reason why you shouldn't keep him.

Exactly, Dreamer should be working backstage because he has a mind for the buisness. You can also have him on Tv, but only as a manager for new talent arriving in TNA. Him wrestling A.J. Styles at this stage of his career is not a idea.

 

[Post]

I have no issue with Dreamer being in TNA, as an agent or in some backstage capacity, the same as I have no issue with D-Lo Brown or Al Snow either. Dreamer's problem is that he's not a big enough name to warrant being on the show as often as he is and in such high profile angles as he is when there are very talented people behind him just begging for an opportunity to prove themselves.

Hell, I'd even accept one or two matches with him a year if it was required, but with the amount of television time he's been getting, and with the profile of the feuds he's been involved in, there's just no reason for it. This isn't Ric Fair we're talking about here.

EXACTLY! I'm sure that Tommy can contribute, but I'm not going to but a ppv that features him in any major match. Tommy was great in ECW and had a few ok moments in WWE, but TNA should be shifting more focus from guys like Dreamer to guys like Crimson, Pope, Morgan, Kazarian, and Roode.

TNA would be wise to use Tommy Dreamer in a similar role to how ROH is using Steve Corino. Corino was a great mouthpiece for Kevin Steen and even participated in a few matches.

 

[neildittmar]

But ECW is a long gone memory, except to the 5 people that bought Hardcore Justice.

According to the numbers released, Hardcore Justice was right there with Bound For Glory as far as last years PPV buys go. If I remember correctly, the number quoted was somewhere in the vacinity of 25-30K. Though it may not be a huge demographic, there is still an audience for "hardcore wrestling." The success (for TNA anyway) of the Hardcore Justice PPV proved this.

Which brings us to the thread topic and Tommy Dreamer. I'm totally on-board that Tommy hasn't been over anywhere but the old ECW and even there, it took a long long time... with Tommy Dreamer taking a LOT of beatings in-kind. He won the resepct of the audience... it wasn't because of his particular character or a specific storyline. Even though I was consistently cheering him on during his stint with WWE, I wasn't blinded to the fact that hardly anybody else was with me.

As the old saying goes, those who can't do... teach. Those who can't teach... manage. I think Tommy can fit both latter roles actually. He can teach things like paying your dues (of which he is VERY well versed), respect for the business (ditto) and general wrestling acumen. However, spreading his own personal knowledge and experience to the younger guys can only go so far.

Tommy Dreamer is good at being Tommy Dreamer and as we've already established, the only place that really carried any true value was ECW. I personally don't know how Dreamers managerial skills fare, but based on what I do know, Tommy is incredibly and ultimately dependable. This is something that TNA needs while it attempts to establish itself long-term, particularly if the whole "Wrestling Matters" flag the company is waving is to have any staying power.

So to definitively answer the question, yes I think it's worth it for TNA to keep Dreamer on for at least another year. I like his current program with AJ, but the end game needs to be a segue way for Tommy Dreamer to come OUT of active competition, not to be deeper for more firmly implanted. The reality is that Dreamer is only over with a very select group of people, and he's more busted up than performers 10 or 20 years older than him is some respects.

I say, let Dreamer finish his program with AJ with Styles getting the put over and Dreamer leaving active competition (via "Loser Leaves" or Immortal firing him, either/or would work). Then, let Dreamer have some responsibilities backstage, both training and managerial, and see how he fares.

 

[TUFFY54]

Tommy Dreamer was my favorite wrestler in the old ECW. I loved the guy, and thought he brought an incredible amount of passion to every one of his matches. Sadly, Tommy Dreamer now makes me sick to my stomach because he's beyond pathetic. He's a ****e.

The way he grovels at the feet of anyone that lets him wrestle a hardcore match makes me sick. Jesus Christ man, move on with your life. When Vince brought back ECW he was crying, covered in blood, thanking the man for making his dreams come true. That one I could handle, but when he did the same thing for Dixie I laughed. Dixie let him and some of his friends have a fucking terrible pay per view, I mean fucking awful, and he was there covered in blood, crying while thanking Dixie and TNA for saving his life. (P.S. EV2 was one of the worst stables in history.)

I've never seen a man in the history of pro wrestling that is as stuck in the past as Dreamer. Could you imagine Jerry Lawler coming out and chanting USWA and crying every time the WWE did a show in Memphis? How about Stone Cold saying everything he does is for WCCW. Move the fuck on man, everyone else has. Hell, HardCore Justice was an attempt to bring in Heyman and he said no thanks. What would you call a forty year old man that still wore all his college fraternity shirts and wanted to get drunk with his pledge brothers every weekend? You'd probably call him a fucking loser. Thats what Dreamer is, a fucking loser who can't move past the life he lived damn near twenty years ago. Every single angle he has done in TNA is about ECW. I loved ECW, but let the damn thing rest.

Dreamer used to be one of my favorites, but now I think he's just dead weight.

 

[Rayne]

According to the numbers released, Hardcore Justice was right there with Bound For Glory as far as last years PPV buys go. If I remember correctly, the number quoted was somewhere in the vacinity of 25-30K. Though it may not be a huge demographic, there is still an audience for "hardcore wrestling." The success (for TNA anyway) of the Hardcore Justice PPV proved this.

For a PPV in which the card was scrapped and changed completely two weeks prior to the event, and in which the main event match was scrapped the morning of the card? Most PPV orders come within a few hours of the event, and let's remember that the original main event was RVD vs. Jerry Lynn, in a rematch of a match made famous only because RVD legit KO'd Jerry Lynn a couple of minutes in. TNA has been incredibly shy with their PPV numbers (so has the WWE, cable PPV has been declining for pro wrestling in general for a while- neither company has much to brag about), so I have to look at that specific figure with a lot of doubt.

I'm big on circumstantial evidence when it comes to TNA, because that's what we have to work with, and it's pretty reliable when you're only interested in a rough picture. But I'm going to need something a little more precise than "I heard it did this, and therefore it was a success" if we're going to start quoting specific figures.

If there was an audience for "hardcore wrestling", CZW wouldn't be relegated to performing shows in front of a couple hundred of the same people in the Philly area.

 

[Rasha]

I'm the one guy who voted for bringing him back as a wrestler (so far). The reason I say that is I was very impressed with his heel turn segment and I'd like to see him get a chance to ride it out. Signing him to a new deal could mean whatever TNA wants it to mean. It could be six months, a year... anything. I'd give him the shortest deal he'd accept (one year max) and see what happens with this new direction. What if he joined Immortal and then became a manager/mentor for Gunner? That could work really well.

 

[akrassikauda]

I'm laughing my ass off right now at the comments that Dreamer is a ****e,pathetic and a fucking loser. That last one took the cake. So a guy who for over 20 years did what he was passionate about for OUR entertainment, kept most of his money and is more knowledgeable about the business than any of us but yet he's pathetic a ****e and a fucking loser. Well you wouldn't be an IWC smark if you didn't post those things.

Dreamer should call it a day and go back to Stamford since he didn't leave on bad terms and be an agent or a manager.

 

[neildittmar]

I'm big on circumstantial evidence when it comes to TNA, because that's what we have to work with, and it's pretty reliable when you're only interested in a rough picture. But I'm going to need something a little more precise than "I heard it did this, and therefore it was a success" if we're going to start quoting specific figures.

Fair enough. Here is the link from Wrestlezone talking about those numbers. It was quoted in other places as well.

http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/art...010-wrestlicious-signs-new-agency-deal-130003

If there was an audience for "hardcore wrestling", CZW wouldn't be relegated to performing shows in front of a couple hundred of the same people in the Philly area.

Understood and accepted, but given the individual levels of extreme at which the two companies go/went, I would almost put ECW and CZW in two different categories. Also, I said there was an audience for hardcore wrestling... I never mentioned large or even significant as a further qualifier.

If the numbers I linked are to be believed, then Hardcore Justice was the #2 PPV of the year for TNA and had buys within striking distance of their #1. All other PPVs were significantly lower, again if the numbers are taken as fact. I suppose it's up to the individual to determine ultimately what they mean. Namely, was Hardcore Justice a success for TNA or are those numbers indicative of how poor Bound For Glory (puportedly the biggest show of the year) was from a buyrate standpoint. Being somewhat of an optimist, I've opted to choose the former.

To link all this back into the thread topic, Tommy Dreamer was a good hardcore wrestler. His success in the original ECW and his ability (curse?) of continually carrying the blood stained banner over the years are evidence of this. However, mass market wrestling fans are not tuning in to see Tommy Dreamer. They weren't in WWECW and they aren't now. Tommy can possibly add a lot to the product as a whole, but he needs to significantly wind down or perhaps hang the boots up completely as far as in-ring competition goes. I think that much we can agree on

 

[Karilas]

I have no issue with Dreamer being in TNA, as an agent or in some backstage capacity, the same as I have no issue with D-Lo Brown or Al Snow either. Dreamer's problem is that he's not a big enough name to warrant being on the show as often as he is and in such high profile angles as he is when there are very talented people behind him just begging for an opportunity to prove themselves.

Hell, I'd even accept one or two matches with him a year if it was required, but with the amount of television time he's been getting, and with the profile of the feuds he's been involved in, there's just no reason for it. This isn't Ric Fair we're talking about here.

I have to agree with this, although I still get the occasional hankering to see Snow wrassle, if only they could get hold of Steve Blackman as well. I know it's not really good for the direction of the company, but I'd sure as hell mark out for ten minutes. D-Lo too, I miss that silly leg-drop of his. Who is it that's started using Sky-High as a finisher lately?

I'm the one guy who voted for bringing him back as a wrestler (so far). The reason I say that is I was very impressed with his heel turn segment and I'd like to see him get a chance to ride it out. Signing him to a new deal could mean whatever TNA wants it to mean. It could be six months, a year... anything. I'd give him the shortest deal he'd accept (one year max) and see what happens with this new direction. What if he joined Immortal and then became a manager/mentor for Gunner? That could work really well.

I hadn't thought about this, and I do see potential in Gunner, he has that intense "crazy eyes" look and he's not entirely dreadful in the ring. An experienced mentor could do wonders for the lad.

 

[Rayne]

Fair enough. Here is the link from Wrestlezone talking about those numbers. It was quoted in other places as well.

http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/art...010-wrestlicious-signs-new-agency-deal-130003

You are correct, sir, and I publicly retract my doubt. I still find it hard to believe that a company could bring in 20k buys with their main event canceled the day of the card, but apparently it happened.

I don't necessarily think that means there's an audience for hardcore wrestling, however, and less that there's still a residual audience for ECW nostalgia. Hardcore is a relative term anyways; does it mean people going through tables? Does it mean people performing stunts which aren't seen in mainstream promotions? CZW is hardcore compared to the original ECW, but it also takes place in a different environment; namely, one where ECW had set a bar to be beaten.

In the grand scheme of things, however, I believe that it's presentation of the content you provide, rather than the content itself that matters. People will buy shit if you polish it up enough.

 

[Cookie14]

I honestly believe that the only person who wants to see Dreamer on TV every week is his mother. Nobody else likes him.

I can't see him staying around in TNA if they only offer him a backstage deal, I mean, what's the point? He's unlikely to have any pull in booking and storylines, not ahead of Hogan, Bischoff and Russo. And I can't see him hanging around to mentor the younger guys because he knows as well as they do that they will only get mis-used or more likely ignored altogether in TNA.

I would prefer him to re-sign with WWE and either join the writing team on SD, or join HHH's new developmental staff alongside Nash, Waltman, Taker etc. Let him use his talents that way.

 

[AntiChristDeicide]

I honestly believe that the only person who wants to see Dreamer on TV every week is his mother. Nobody else likes him.

Cookie14, wouldn't be so sure about that. I bet there are still people that want Dreamer on TV, even if he would only be a manager.

I would prefer him to re-sign with WWE and either join the writing team on SD, or join HHH's new developmental staff alongside Nash, Waltman, Taker etc. Let him use his talents that way.

Maybe he could go there after his contract is up. i would rather see him in the Raw writing team. As for him joining HHH's developemental staff, well Scott Hall has a better chance on being in it and Hall is still persona non-grata in WWE even if all of his friends are there.

 

[Papa Pillman]

Firstly... I am disgusted by the amount of hate that gets vigorously spewed at Tommy for time-to-time on this board.

And to call him something like a "****e" is uncalled for. Yes Tommy was emotional when Vince gave ECW a "One Night Stand". But then Vince crushed him by turning the name of the company he sweat, bled, and broke himself for into a lame third-rate bastardized child of his brand extension to make a few extra bucks. What Vince did was tarnish the ECW legacy by creating something that in zero ways reflected what ECW was, yet giving it there name. Do you realize that there are teenagers who's only familiarity with ECW is WWECW??? If I were Tommy that fact would make me want to commit suicide. So yes he was also emotional when Dixie(even without benefit of being able to use the ECW initials) went all-in to give ECW the closest thing to a proper send-off that it could get in 2010. ECW was Tommy's life... forgive the man for caring still. I imagine getting to wrestle at Hardcore Justice for Tommy meant about as much to him as it would mean to me to see my late father one last time (Would that make me a "****e" for being emotional?). And it is unfair of anyone to not understand that and criticize him for it.

As for the topic... Yes I'd like to see Dreamer back, but I too hope that they would slowly faze him out of a wrestling role. Seeing Tommy in the ring occasionally is okay with me, but too many matches is just too much for his body and I'd hate to see him in a wheelchair. But he should still be used sparingly in the ring to put guys over(that's always been what he was best at, and he was never reluctant to do it). Dreamer also needs to be given a very involved backsatge role as he is one of the most knowledgable guys that the business still possesses on that side of things; however, even if his main role is an agent or writer or whatever, he should still have an on-camera role and presence- he's too good not to. I like Post's idea of giving him a Corino-like spot in the company, that would likely work out well.

 

[dcarson108]

I want to know why everyone keeps saying he has a great mind for the business. I'm not saying he doesn't, I just want to know what he has done to earn that reputation. I know he worked behind the scenes for ECW, but what did he do from a creative stand point? Does anyone actually know?

As for him as a wrestler, I'm not a huge Dreamer fan so I wouldn't miss him. But he does have a following and his matches are usually decent. As long as he's not a major player, I have no issues with him still wrestling.

 

[BenChiefin]

For the first time I'm seeing Dreamer do a new heel character instead of crying about "us" on some ECW bullshit. He should've been with Immortal a while back.

Let's see where this story goes.

 

[sTyLnK]

I think he'll ultimately end up back with the WWE again. JMO. He hasn't done much in TNA so if they don't need him go back to the better company.

 

[Rayne]

I want to know why everyone keeps saying he has a great mind for the business. I'm not saying he doesn't, I just want to know what he has done to earn that reputation. I know he worked behind the scenes for ECW, but what did he do from a creative stand point? Does anyone actually know?

By and large he was Paul Heyman's lieutenant during the ECW days. ECW didn't have agents in the traditional sense, but Tommy Dreamer served as a go-between for the talent and Heyman. While Heyman was off filming Rollerball near the end of ECW, Dreamer took over day-to-day operations of the company.

Working for ECW wasn't quite the same as working for the WWF/WCW either, as without much money to run on, talent helped run the other facets of the operation; everything from arena prep to t-shirt sales to Stevie Richards' 1-900 number. Tommy Dreamer had his fingers in all of this.

Before someone chimes in with "but didn't ECW go bankrupt", Tommy Dreamer wasn't running ECW's accounting. (I'm not sure anyone ran ECW's accounting- one thing they definitely were not was an efficient business.) But that's where he made his bones, and in the past decade, he's been used as a mentor in both the WWE and TNA.

As far as a 'creative standpoint' goes, professional wrestling isn't exactly difficult writing. There are a few storylines which get recycled over and over again; the trick is to make them seem fresh and original. The WWE's writing team doesn't consist of several wrestlers in their 50's who have lived and breathed the business; it consists of Stephanie Levesque and around a dozen kids not that far out of college. There are no Hemmingways writing professional wrestling scripts; it's either about knowing the right people (which is how Russo keeps getting work- have you seen anything innovative out of him since the mid-90s?) or having enough respect from your peers in the business that they'll listen to your advice. With the longevity of Dreamer's career, he's got both locked down pretty well. If Tommy Dreamer has something to say about the business, you'd better believe there will be a bunch of 20 year-old kids hanging on every piece of advice he can give them.

 

[aphazel1]

I'd love to see Tommy stay with Impact Wrestling as some type of on-air personality, whther that be in the ring or as a manager. I'm a huge fan and have been since back in the original days of ECW. I really like the new heel turn and would like to see where that goes....it adds a new dimension to his character if Impact Wrestling handles it properly.

The problem is, they've already done a shitty job of using since the EV2 thing passed, which was awesome!!! The stable should still be around, they rushed the storyline way too much. People who either weren't alive or were too young to appreciate the original ECW aren't going to understand how great that was. The zeitgeist of ECW cannot be fully appreciated on youtube or the WWE dvd releases. It was a moment in time that was great to relive.

 

[Mr. Piledriver]

The back is filled with younger and healthier wrestlers who need to get TV time. Here we have Tommy Dreamer who he himself got exposed in ring wise by Terry Funk, Cactus Jack. Tna needs to understand this is NOT 1997, and they are not WCW.
Stop the trips down memory lane with all the older talent being pushed do to what they did way back when, and they need to set themselves apart from WWE by having younger and faster talent.
Have the older talent do the right thing and bring up the young the way it should before it’s too late and they are left with a bunch of young green horns who know nothing of the business.

 

[sweetcosmicpope]

I put to usher him out the door.

I liked ECW, as well, but today's Tommy Dreamer just doesn't have chemistry with the rest of the TNA roster. Sure, he can still go, but he's taking away from some of the younger talent, and he just isn't as interesting to watch as he used to be.

Furthermore, it doesn't look like he really did anything productive backstage, except for hardcore justice, and that went nowhere.

I suppose if they want to keep him as a road agent or something, but I honestly just don't see any point of having him around wasting a paycheck.