TNA: Sadistic Madness: Ric Flair vs. Bam Bam Bigelow

[Shocky]

The following match takes place in the TNA Region, inside of the six sided ring, from the Impact Zone in Orlando, Fl.

Match: Sadistic Madness

The rules of the match are as follows. Each wrestler must attempt to draw blood from his opponent. Once a wrestler is bleeding, he is then eligible to lose the match. A match will only end on a submission or a pinfall once the wrestler is bloodied. If the wrestler has not bleed, the fall will not count.

Ric Flair

vs.

Bam Bam Bigelow

 

[klunderbunker]

I think Flair goes home here. He bleeds so much that it's insane. Bigelow is no slouch and I never once remember him donning the crimson mask. Once he opens Flair up with a stiff stare to the face, he can get around to working him over and pinning him. Flair is most vulnerable when someone comes right at him. If this was a standard match I'd take Bigelow, but I don't know what Flair has in his arsenal to make Bigelow bleed. Based on that, I have to go with the Beast From the East.

 

[Mr. TM]

Poor Flair walked right into in this one. Bam Bam is one of the weaker SHW wrestlers who made it big in wrestling in my books, but in a match like this, Ric Flair has little chance at first glance. Every single Flair battle of a match, I remember him bleeding like a bottle of Heinz ketchup. Sure we have seen him making his opponents bleed like he did to Randy Orton:

[youtube]sLCmpR_88eE[/youtube]

But Randy Orton easily got the upper hand here.

But while I say that, I might have to turn this entire thing around. Sure this next example isn't a pin, but he sure beat the hell out of someone greater than Bam Bam Bigelow

[youtube]G2TzU3-9K4k[/youtube]

So there you have it. Ric Flair decimated Triple H in the match. However:

[youtube]VZxksIveKUU[/youtube]

Ric Flair got beat in a similar war here. So we never know who will win. I can be swayed to vote which either way here.

 

[Big Sexy]

Flair does bleed a lot, but Bigelow still has to pin him after making him bleed. Before anyone says that Flair couldn't beat Bigelow because he is too big, let me remind you that Ric Flair has beaten Big Van Vader on not one but two occasions. Vader is much better then Bigelow so pinning Bam Bam would not be the problem. The biggest problem Flair will have is making Bigelow bleed, but it has been done before. I can remember a few matches in ECW where Bigelow bled and with the help of the 4 Horseman I'm sure it could happen again. I still haven't made my decision yet, but I'm just showing that this will be far from a cakewalk for Bigelow

 

[Shocky]

This one is easy, a guy that bleeds monthly like a period, or the guy that has a skull tattoo on the top of his head, hmmm. Ric Flair usually looks like raw beef at the end of every pay per view back in the day, sure he might win, but he was a bloody mess and always looked the worse for wear at the end of the day.

Then you turn to a guy like Bam Bam Bigelow. A guy that went through the original ECW facing off against the likes of Sandman, Dreamer, Sabu, and New Jack, coming through, to the best of my knowledge, crimson mask free. If guys that regularly used forks as a weapon to the forehead couldn't bust open Bam Bam, what in the hell could Ric Flair possibly do in this match.

Bam Bam Bigelow, I'm sounding like IC now, is easily one of the top 5 SHW's of all time, and to add to it, he was an original non watered down ECW Champion. The guy is a bad ass in the ring, and he's going to hurt Ric Flair, and hurt him bad.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I'm on the fence on this one. In some of Flair's biggest and most memorable matches, he came out always looking like a severely used and abused tampon. As for Bam Bam, I don't really recall ever seeing him busted open. That's not to say that Flair couldn't do it, but when Flair bleeds, he really really bleeds.

And if Flair were to bust Bam Bam open, then it's just a matter of taking him out. Flair has beaten and pinned bigger and stronger men than Bigelow, so it's a mistake just writing Flair off.

 

[Big Sexy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MULuK8tXoaQ

This is a match against New Jack where Bam Bam got busted open. Now I know that Ric Flair isn't New Jack, but with the help of the 4 horseman I think they could find a way to make him bleed.

 

[Shocky]

Good find Big Sexy, but I really think that does more to hurt the fight for Flair then to help it. It took New Jack, arguably the most violent wrestler of what was the most violent Federation out there to make Bam Bam Bigelow bleed, at the ten minute mark. However, it looks to have just pissed Bam Bam off. If it takes New Jack, a guy known to make people juice, that long to do ti to Triple B, then I simply can't see Flair getting the job done.

Also, if it takes a stable of guys to beat someone, I think that also speaks to the validity of Bam Bam Bigelow moreso then Ric Flair. The Horsemen argument could very well be null and voided, by either the Jersey Triad or the Triple Threat, particularly the Triple Threat who hate the Horsemen and Flair in particular. The outside interfernce argument is a push at best.

 

[SavageTaker]

I think this is the end of the Road for Ric Flair.

Ric Flair is very well known for bleeding and that just works in Bam Bam's advantage because he will be able to make him bleed with ease. Now the rules of the match do state that they do have to either pin or make their opponent submit. Ric Flair is not going to be able to do that because it will be very hard for him to even get Bam Bam to draw blood, which not many guys have been able to do, while many people have been able to make Flair Bleed.

My vote is on Bam Bam and I think that it will most likely remain that way unless someone can come up with a very good argument for Flair.

 

[Captain America]

watch this match. Bigelow sheds a little blood here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=503_27asiiM The fact is Flair may bleed quite a bit, but this isn't a first blood match, this is a sadistic madness match. Not only does Bigelow have to make Flair bleed, but he also has to pin him, so let's not just immediately count out Flair. Flair has won several matches against much better competition whilst wearing the crimson mask.

I'd see this as a knockdown drag out brawl, with Flair somehow finding a way to win. Flair is the dirtiest player in the game and in a match with no DQ he'd have the entire Horsemen backing him. Bigelow is good, but he's no Ric Flair.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

watch this match. Bigelow sheds a little blood here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=503_27asiiM The fact is Flair may bleed quite a bit, but this isn't a first blood match, this is a sadistic madness match. Not only does Bigelow have to make Flair bleed, but he also has to pin him, so let's not just immediately count out Flair. Flair has won several matches against much better competition whilst wearing the crimson mask.

I'd see this as a knockdown drag out brawl, with Flair somehow finding a way to win. Flair is the dirtiest player in the game and in a match with no DQ he'd have the entire Horsemen backing him. Bigelow is good, but he's no Ric Flair.

Admirable of you to try to defend a legend, but to no avail. Your argument as I read it amounts to "Bam Bam bled a little HERE, and though Flair bleeds a LOT, he's still better." Really doesn't cut the mustard this late in the tournament.

Guys like Bigelow are MADE for matches like this. Flair has NEVER been a hardcore guy. Bigelow, on the other hand, is a former (and quite reputable) ECW Champion. He's also been in some pretty tough ones in Japan. He can withstand whatever Flair can throw at him.

Also remember, a lot of Flair's greatness comes from his being "The Dirtiest Player in the Game." What made him that? Cheating in matches where a lot of stuff was illegal. In a match like this, his eye rakes and low blows can also be done by Bigelow, only bigger, stronger, meaner, and heavier.

Flair bleeds on a Saturday if the wind is right. Bigelow, on the other hand, is a beast and will destroy Flair in this setting. A non-classic ring setting with hardcore rules?

It's Bigelow...

wait for it...

wait for it...

AND IT'S NOT CLOSE!

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I believe Ric Flair and Bigelow will make each other bleed. Now the question is which one will get the pinfall first? The time Flair takes to make Bigelow bleed will be longer than Bigelow takes Flair to bleed. So I believe Flair will be worn out just enough for Bigelow to pin him for the win.

 

[jmt225]

Bam Bam would kill Flair. It doesn't matter what type of match it is, this would not even be a competition. But in this match, especially.

The fact is... Flair's known as one of the biggest bleeders the sport has ever seen. I mean, it would literally be impossible to count up how many times we’ve all seen Flair’s white hair turn red. You can find one or two matches were Bam bleeds badly, but first of all, those are against some of the most sick-minded motherfuckers the business has ever seen and in a company where those wrestlers were beloved. Flair has never been in a ring with someone like New Jack, and he's never been in a company like ECW.

Bam Bam is just too big, too powerful, and too SADISTIC for Flair to ever be able to defeat him; in any type of match, let alone this one.

 

[ZEUS]

I'm not sure which way to go here. Sure, Flair bleeds all the time, but it would take a lot to keep him down. In a straight match, gotta go with Naitch but I am really not certain. I'm leaning towards Bam Bam.

 

[Big Sexy]

Bam Bam would kill Flair. It doesn't matter what type of match it is, this would not even be a competition. But in this match, especially.

The fact is... Flair's known as one of the biggest bleeders the sport has ever seen. I mean, it would literally be impossible to count up how many times we’ve all seen Flair’s white hair turn red. You can find one or two matches were Bam bleeds badly, but first of all, those are against some of the most sick-minded motherfuckers the business has ever seen and in a company where those wrestlers were beloved. Flair has never been in a ring with someone like New Jack, and he's never been in a company like ECW.

Bam Bam is just too big, too powerful, and too SADISTIC for Flair to ever be able to defeat him; in any type of match, let alone this one.

Bullshit. I don't have a problem with you saying that Bigelow would win because he rarely bleeds, but saying that he would destroy Flair no matter what the match was is a load of crap. And don't give me this shit about Bigelow being to strong and powerful either because Flair has defeated Big Van Vader not once but twice. And the second time he defeated him inside of a steel cage. If you want to use the Bigelow doesn't bleed argument then that's fine, but any other argument made, like saying Bigelow is too strong and big for Flair is baseless bullshit.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

Listen, the match isn't First Blood. If it was, Bigelow wins in 10 seconds. Because Flair comes to the ring bleeding. However the point is getting a pin on Flair. In his prime, I can count on one hand the people that's pinned this man. Blood soaked and all.

Bigelow's tough as they get and to be honest...he'd beat the shit out of Flair. But Flair...is a man who can walk that aisle...style and profile, and is the 60 minute man. The longer this match goes, the more it favors Flair and I think that somehow, Flair will make Bigelow bleed. A chair shot, or a post shot, or whatever. Flair will get Bam Bam to bleed. Bigelow's also one track minded. He's not interested in winning as much as fucking you up. This can be to Flair's advantage.

Flair wins this with a roll up. Whoooo!

 

[Razor]

Ugh. I can't make the pick. Sure, Flair will bleed. He always bleeds. But this is a "bleed em and pin em" match, not a First Blood match.

Bam Bam only has to prove that he doesn't bleed when someone looks at him. Which will automatically make him better at keeping it together than Ric Flair.

Eh...it's an accepted fact that Ric Flair will bleed. But is it accepted he'll be pinned? I'm not sure. Not sure enough to promise my vote to Bigelow. I can sure as hell tell you right now that I'm not at all looking at Flair to win this though. I can be convinced.

 

[Mantaur Rodeo Clown]

Admirable of you to try to defend a legend, but to no avail. Your argument as I read it amounts to "Bam Bam bled a little HERE, and though Flair bleeds a LOT, he's still better." Really doesn't cut the mustard this late in the tournament.

Guys like Bigelow are MADE for matches like this. Flair has NEVER been a hardcore guy. Bigelow, on the other hand, is a former (and quite reputable) ECW Champion. He's also been in some pretty tough ones in Japan. He can withstand whatever Flair can throw at him.

Also remember, a lot of Flair's greatness comes from his being "The Dirtiest Player in the Game." What made him that? Cheating in matches where a lot of stuff was illegal. In a match like this, his eye rakes and low blows can also be done by Bigelow, only bigger, stronger, meaner, and heavier.

Flair bleeds on a Saturday if the wind is right. Bigelow, on the other hand, is a beast and will destroy Flair in this setting. A non-classic ring setting with hardcore rules?

It's Bigelow...

wait for it...

wait for it...

AND IT'S NOT CLOSE!

Ah, Admirable to defend the Beast from the East like that.
Hey everyone, as a side note, didnt he lose to an NFL player in the Main event of Wrestlemania XI? Just checking....

The rules of the match are quite clear. This is not a first blood match, it is a Sadistic Madness match. The first person to draw blood from an opponent is not the winner. You must still pin your opponent in order to win AFTER you have drawn blood.

I would say Flair bled in about 60 percent of his matches if not more. That razorblade is like an adopted son to him, god knows he needs a reliable one. But he also WON the matches he bled in. He is just as lucid and just as good when he has lost a pint of blood as when he has just walked out from behind the curtain. He's used to it.

Bam Bam was arguably one of the greatest super heavyweights of all time. But Flair was a 16 time world champion and the greatest pro wrestler of all time. That might get some flak. In any case, Flair would beat Bam Bam no questions asked. Bam Bam could get a nick on his finger then get pinned and it would still count.

Flair might even pull out his trusty razor blade and give Bam Bam a little slice on the finger and Low Blow, the pin, the victory.

Winner: Flair.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Hey everyone, as a side note, didnt he lose to an NFL player in the Main event of Wrestlemania XI? Just checking....

Now this is a misleading statistic. Lawrence Taylor at Wrestlemania 11 was one of Vince's first foray's into having mainstream sports stars compete at Wrestlemania. Taylor was the first.

But this presented Vince with an interesting problem - he needed to give Taylor a worker (opponent) strong and talented enough to call the match, lead the match, and put LT over. Not because LT was better, but because an LT win at Wrestlemania would put WWF on SportsCenter, the Evening and Morning news, etc.

With an entire roster before him, he went with Bigelow, because he TRUSTED Bigelow. Bigelow main evented Wrestlemania. He closed the biggest show of the year. I don't think Flair has ever closed a Wrestlemania.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

You can say that Flair could hit Bigelow with a low blow and roll him up for the victory, but I believe BBB will be too smart not to let that happen. Bigelow in his prime was just as good as Flair was in his prime and I just think Bam Bam will win here. Ric Flair couldn't beat Vader in the tournament last year so I don't see why Bigelow couldn't beat him.

 

[Slyfox696]

Bam Bam Bigelow, I'm sounding like IC now, is easily one of the top 5 SHW's of all time

Vader, Sid Vicious, Andre the Giant, The Big Show, Kevin Nash, The Undertaker, Abdullah the Butcher, Bruiser Brody, and Stan Hansen are all far superior in just about every way to Bam Bam Bigelow. And when you throw in guys like John Studd, Rikishi, Yokozuna, Khali, etc., it's arguable whether Bam Bam is even in the Top 10 of a weight class that sees very few entrants.

Now, list the guys who are superior to Ric Flair in just about every way. Good luck.

Listen, the match isn't First Blood.

At least someone recognizes that.

Now this is a misleading statistic. Lawrence Taylor at Wrestlemania 11 was one of Vince's first foray's into having mainstream sports stars compete at Wrestlemania. Taylor was the first.

But this presented Vince with an interesting problem - he needed to give Taylor a worker (opponent) strong and talented enough to call the match, lead the match, and put LT over. Not because LT was better, but because an LT win at Wrestlemania would put WWF on SportsCenter, the Evening and Morning news, etc.

Wait a minute...

When someone is booked to lose a match, we just ignore the fact that he lost, but when someone is booked to bleed, then we use that against him to try and determine a winner? Great logic Irish. Maybe for an encore we can say that Bam Bam was a more successful pro wrestler because he won the Universal Superstars of America Heavyweight title, and Flair never did.




This is a joke. Who cares if Flair bleeds? As has been said, bleeding has NOTHING to do with winning the match, only being able to win the match. If Flair has proven anything over his career, it's that he ALWAYS finds some way to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat. Trying to say that Bigelow would win this match...for ANY reason...is a useless waste of time, as Flair was the better kayfabe wrestler, the more succesful kayfabe wrestler...and was the better in-ring worker and the more successful in-ring worker.

There is no way that Bam Bam should win this match. This should go to Ric Flair, and by a landslide.

 

[Captain America]

The fact that people are just automatically giving this match to Bam Bam is ridiculous, but for people to actually think that Bam Bam would actually "destroy" a prime Ric Flair is beyond absurd. Either your stoned out of your mind or have never seen a Ric Flair match in your life. When has a prime Ric Flair ever been destroyed? Were talking about a man who defended his world title night after night against the best wrestlers all across the country, were talking about a man who has defeated the best of the best, the true legends in this sport, were talking about "The Man!". Ric Flair has defeated men that were larger than Bigelow, men who were stronger than Bigelow, men who were faster, men who were more respected than Bigelow, men who accomplished more than Bigelow, and men that were just flat out better than Bigelow.

Ric Flair was the man! Ric Flair was the main event! Bam Bam Bigelow was the mid-card man. Kayfabe wise Bigelow can't hold a candle to Ric Flair. You can take away over half of Ric's accomplishments in the ring and he's still accomplished more than Bigelow could ever dream of. Ric Flair should win this match and the voting really shouldn't be close.

 

[JGlass]

Everybody keeps saying Flair bleeds so much and so easily, but I don't think that matters. As many times as you've seen Ric Flair bleed, how many times has he been able to fight through the blood and pull off a victory? Ric Flair is one of the greatest wrestlers ever, Bam Bam Bigelow is a very good wrestler, but not Ric Flair. There is no way Bam Bam is going to beat Flair here. Even though Flair may be busted open fairly early on by Bigelow, he's not going down. Flair also has the fact that this is a no-dq match on his side. He can use anything he can find near the ring as a weapon, and it shouldn't be hard for the dirtiest player in the game to find something to make his opponent bleed. Once Flair finally busts Bigelow open, it's only a matter of minutes until he has him pinned or locked in the figure 4 for a victory.

 

[Shocky]

Vader, Sid Vicious, Andre the Giant, The Big Show, Kevin Nash, The Undertaker, Abdullah the Butcher, Bruiser Brody, and Stan Hansen are all far superior in just about every way to Bam Bam Bigelow. And when you throw in guys like John Studd, Rikishi, Yokozuna, Khali, etc., it's arguable whether Bam Bam is even in the Top 10 of a weight class that sees very few entrants.

Now, list the guys who are superior to Ric Flair in just about every way. Good luck.

I'll clarify at least what I consider a SHW. Guys like Vader, Umaga, Big Show, Andre and Bigelow are what I consider Super Heavyweights. Others like Sid, Kane, Diesel, and The Undertaker are what I consider "Big Men". That's my definition, but If I were to merge the two, then certainly Bigelow wouldn't be in my top five. However, guys on your list like Studd, Rikishi, Yoko and Khali I'll gladly disagree with you on about their collective worth to the business.

Now this is silly about Flair. For the most part, no one is burying Flair here, of course there are some that will, but I'm not one of them. There are many factors in here that simply favor Bigelow, and not Flair. Essentially the match is no Holds Barred, and Bigelow is a former ECW champion when it was ECW, so check one to Bigelow. Flair is a bleeder, favor goes to Bigelow. Look, Flair might be able to bust open Bigelow, but it's going to be long after Flair has been initially busted open, and he's going to be far too exhausted to be effective.

In a regular match, Flair wins, in this match, Bigelow wins.

 

[Captain America]

and he's going to be far too exhausted to be effective.

Far too exhausted? Ric Flair probably has the best conditioning in the history of the business. Ric Flair has always been known as someone who has great conditioning. Even at a very old age and past his prime Ric Flair was known for having great conditioning. Why do you think he'd be exhausted in this match? What is your evidence to support this outlandish claim?