TNA Region, Third Round: German Pain: (3) Bret Hart vs. (11) Goldberg

Who Wins This Matchup?

  • Bret Hart

  • Goldberg


Results are only viewable after voting.
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klunderbunker

Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
This is a third round match in the TNA Region. It is a German Pain match, held at the Amway Center in Orlando, Florida.

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Rules: Anything goes in this match and it is won by pinfall or submission. However, the opponent must be bleeding significantly from the forehead before a fall counts.

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#3. Bret Hart

Vs.

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#11. Goldberg



Polls will be open for five days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.

Assume the wrestlers are at full strength after their first two matches.

Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.
 
This match exists? Holy crap, German people are messed up.

Anyway, I gotta go Hitman here. Goldberg always had trouble against Bret. Also, can Bret make Goldberg (Stone Cold lite) pass out in the sharpshooter and win? Because we already saw that movie, and it owned.
 
Umm... Goldberg ended Hart's career. And beat him clean in the process of doing so.

The only way Hart gets votes here is if people simply like him more than Goldberg. Otherwise, this is a very solid win for Goldyberg here.
 
Umm... Goldberg ended Hart's career. And beat him clean in the process of doing so.

The only way Hart gets votes here is if people simply like him more than Goldberg. Otherwise, this is a very solid win for Goldyberg here.

Not only did Goldberg not beat him clean, he didn't beat him. Hart won that match and, to the best of my knowledge, every other one on one match they ever had.

Goldberg is Bret Hart's bitch.
 
Bret owned Goldberg through most of their feud, and never took a pinfall to him. He constantly outsmarted Goldberg, even once wearing a steel plate under his hockey jersey to counter Goldberg's spear. Goldberg never pinned Hart though, not once.

To be fair, Kevin Nash had already derailed all of Goldberg's mystique by ending the streak. Once he was humanized a bit he wasn't nearly as dominant. Pre-Nash Goldberg would probably be a bigger pill to swallow for Hart, but the numbers themselves don't lie. Goldberg never beat Bret, Bret beat Goldberg several times(albeit most times had some outside factor but they were still pinfalls and title retentions).

The match type favors Hart as he's proven he can get downright nasty in matches where he has to gouge and tear at an opponent until they're bleeding. Austin at Wrestlemania 13 is the best argument either guy can make, and there's no reason to believe he couldn't do the same to Goldberg.

As much as I'd like to see Goldberg advance on, the smart vote is for Hart.
 
My initial thought was for Bret, as we've seen examples of where he has won bloody matches before, but the more I think about it I could see Goldberg beating the living crap out of Bret with a no-dq stipulation. It's a match I would have loved to have seen when both men were at their best, and its a shame Bret was on the decline when 'berg faced him in WCW.

I can't decide yet on this one, I'm going to need some convincing from either camp.
 
I'm beginning to wonder if we need asterisks for WCW matches booked by Vince Russo. Not because I want to vote Goldberg (I haven't decided my vote). But because it has to be the most perplexing case of booking. Vampiro over Sting. Shane Douglas over Ric Flair (for that matter, Vince Russo over Ric Flair). Kidman over Hogan.

Not to equate Hart/Goldberg with those masterpieces, but when your wins include

  • Roddy Piper mimicking the Montreal Screwjob and just giving Bret the belt... Because
  • The nWo silver coming out and hitting Goldberg with bats (which led to the infamous "Piper pinned Goldberg to become US Champion thing)

Pardon me if I can't exactly decide based on that, that Bret would beat Goldberg.

Someone, sway me one way or another,because I'm on the fence.
 
Goldberg had I think 6 "official" losses in WCW, 3 of those losses came from Bret Hart, that's right half of Goldbergs WCW losses came from the man he's facing here. I have no idea what Lariat is talking about as Goldberg did NOT win the title at Starrcade, I don't even recall Goldberg beating Bret, hell Bret once took Goldberg down while Goldberg was doing his spear to him (a metal plate which is very legal here).

Goldberg was a draw, he was a HOT superstar at one point but so was Bret. Was Goldberg hotter than Bret at their peaks? Yes. Does the match favor Goldberg? No. Why? Bret has proven he's smarter than Goldberg and has shown he has tricks up his sleeve that will put and keep Goldberg down for the 3 count, even at Goldbergs peak he was always Brets bitch (an over 40 Bret to boot) and he would not beat Bret Hart because he got hot for an 8 month period whereas Bret is old faithful, even when he's not getting pushed the hardest he's still the most over person on the roster (well him or Shawn). Goldberg's was super hot for a cup of coffee and Bret has proven he can defeat even the hottest of superstars and considering the track record of both men I think Bret wins here.
 
I'm not totally sold yet on Bret beating Goldberg, but besides the fact that Goldberg was basically Bret Hart's bitch, I recall one picture, a bloody Austin in a submission move. I know that Austin and Goldberg don't have the same stamina or bodys, but both are one of the thougest men in wrestling and I can see Hart doing something similar to Goldberg like he did to Austin at Mania.

Like I said I'm leaning towards voting Bret, but I need to read a couple more of arguments.
 
I see we're not one for nuance on this here forums, are we?

Because if making Goldberg your bitch includes

  • Roddy Piper just handing the title to Bret
  • Hall and Nash attacking Goldberg bats mid match, and Roddy Piper pinning Goldberg.
  • A house show win

Then I don't know what to tell you, other than you really aren't/weren't watching WCW then. The Outsiders aren't coming with bats, Roddy Piper isn't the ref, and probably most importantly, Vince Russo ain't the booker here (Though it is in TNA here, I suppose...)

There are arguments to made for Bret Hart. Just pick not shitty ones.
 
I see we're not one for nuance on this here forums, are we?

Because if making Goldberg your bitch includes

  • Roddy Piper just handing the title to Bret
  • Hall and Nash attacking Goldberg bats mid match, and Roddy Piper pinning Goldberg.
  • A house show win

Then I don't know what to tell you, other than you really aren't/weren't watching WCW then. The Outsiders aren't coming with bats, Roddy Piper isn't the ref, and probably most importantly, Vince Russo ain't the booker here (Though it is in TNA here, I suppose...)

There are arguments to made for Bret Hart. Just pick not shitty ones.

Okay fine, lets look at the circumstances in which Goldberg beat Bret.

  • ...

But if you want to do the other tedious arguments...

Goldberg drew really well for about a year and a half. Hart drew fine for about 6-8 years depending on how you look at it. I'm sure someone could come up with the exact numbers but I highly doubt Goldberg has pulled in more scratch than Bret.

Goldberg had what, one good match in his career? Hart had countless great matches.

I look at Goldberg the same I look at Warrior. They have short, dominant careers and we like to use their impressive W-L records to their advantage. The difference between them and the majority of these other guys is that the other guys actually had some sort of longevity and had different phases of their careers. Goldberg, like Warrior, was a one trick pony who ran out of steam once it came time to do something other than squash jobbers.

I realize this post is all over the place, I have no business typing in my current condition. I just don't see any reason to put Goldberg over Bret.
 
We all know Bret Hart can outwrestle Goldberg. We all know that Bret Hart has outsmarted Goldberg. And, at the end of the day, Bret Hart can be a vicious bastard when he wants to be, because who can forget the image of Stone Cold in the sharpshooter, with blood pouring down his face? Bret Hart beat up Stone Cold, the "toughest S.O.B on the planet" until Austin passed out. And he wasn't even tired by the end of it, he still wanted to beat on Austin once the match had been stopped.

My point is, Bret Hart is better than Goldberg in every way except strength. And Bret is more than capable of neutralising Goldberg's strength.
 
I'll say this... Bret's prime was not his stint in WCW, so the wins he has over Goldberg there is even more impressive.

Now, we all know Goldberg had those defeats when he was not at his prime anymore, but ask yourself this: If one loss to Kevin Nash can fuck up your credibility that badly, how solid was the ground you're on to begin with?

It's not a one-sided thing this, and Goldberg should grab some votes, but I think Bret gets the win here.
 
Goldberg usually comes out for the match bleeding anyways due to a backstage altercation with a locker. So Bret is already one up on the match.


Other than that, Bret has bested Goldberg before & I see the same thing happening again.
 
Let us not forget this image caused by Bret himself:

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If he could do that to "The Toughest S.O.B." then he can surely do the exact same thing to a Goldberg. Whom got beat-up by mini-Bret backstage.

jericho_480x480.jpg


So, yeah Bret has no problem doing that to Goldberg.
 
Goldberg never beat Bret Hart. That's a fact. Did Bret score a number of clean wins against Goldberg? No, but Goldberg never scored ANY kind of win over Hart.

It's impossible to vote one man over another when the first man has never beaten the second, yeah?
 
Yep, definitely the image of a bloody Austin locked on the sharpshooter has made me vote for Hart. We all know that Goldberg is a powerhouse, and that IN THEORY gives an advantage to him, but Hart given the right stipulations can go outside his logic as a technician and be a great brawler.
 
I am still on the fence with this one. Bret owned Goldberg, but it was definitely screwy booking at that time. Goldberg I believe was just out of his prime when he faced Bret as was Bret. I initially wanted to vote Goldberg, but Bret did make a career of beating bigger men. I am need to be convinced either way.
 
Umm... Goldberg ended Hart's career. And beat him clean in the process of doing so.

The only way Hart gets votes here is if people simply like him more than Goldberg. Otherwise, this is a very solid win for Goldyberg here.

I was real tired when posting this last night. Mah bad.

Not only did Goldberg not beat him clean, he didn't beat him. Hart won that match and, to the best of my knowledge, every other one on one match they ever had.

Goldberg is Bret Hart's bitch.

More like Goldberg was the NWO's bitch. That 'win' at Starrcade was because Piper handed Bret the belt to pay homage to the Montreal Screwjob. And in another title match on Nitro, it took Sid Vicious, Hall, and Nash to give Hart the win. Before that, Goldberg was beating Bret's ass.

Goldberg never beat Bret Hart. That's a fact. Did Bret score a number of clean wins against Goldberg? No, but Goldberg never scored ANY kind of win over Hart.

It's impossible to vote one man over another when the first man has never beaten the second, yeah?

It is when all of Bret's wins were via interference or screwy finish. We can compare accolades and drawing power all we want to, and Bret probably wins based on longevity, but in a MATCH... a one on one match, with no screwjob or interference, I'll take Goldberg any day of the week.

That seals my vote for 'da man!
 
Goldberg once kicked Bret Hart in the head so hard it caused him to have a stroke years later and flip off his bicycle and age ten years in one week. Seriously, go look at Bret now. Fine I'll do it for you.

This is Bret Hart before Goldberg.

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Then this happened.
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Look at Bret now, he looks like walking death.
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Plus Bret Hart wouldn't make a man bleed, he is too much of a angelic saint to do that. Just ask Bret yourself, he will tell you all about how awesome he is and how Canada loves him and how he is Jesus. Goldberg wins.
 
I'm still struggling to make a decision here, but I think I am leaning towards Bret. Here is why:

Although Goldberg was possibly the hottest star in wrestling during his WCW peak, he is not a legend of the sport like The Hitman is. Bret remained a top draw for a much longer period than Goldberg, has the technical and brawling skills to take on the much stronger Goldberg, and even when he was over 40 years old in WCW, he still managed to beat Da Man (albeit with outside interference).

Bret is a smart guy, he would know that he couldn't beat Goldberg in a power match, so he'd have to use his intelligence to get the advantage over 'Bergy. I'd expect both men to take a beating in this, but after a Piledriver on a chair causes the blood to pour down Goldberg's face, a Sharpshooter from Bret gets him the win.
 
I keep hearing how Bret Hart was a big draw, how he drew in WWF/E and WCW, but did he really? Outside of Canada, and even that has been inflated by Bret's massive ego, where did Bret draw? Seems to me his time on top of the WWE was in a down period and when he hit WCW their numbers started to fall(though I wouldn't put that all on his shoulders). I could be wrong and will accept as much if someone provides the numbers to prove as much, but Bret isn't a big draw to me. Outside of him drawing dicks all over pictures of HBK, someone please show me what he drew.
 
It is when all of Bret's wins were via interference or screwy finish. We can compare accolades and drawing power all we want to, and Bret probably wins based on longevity, but in a MATCH... a one on one match, with no screwjob or interference, I'll take Goldberg any day of the week.

I would probably take a similar position if the wrestler I wanted to win had never defeated the one I wanted to lose. On top of Bill never beating Bret, the rules favor Bret. There are no rules and we all know Bret can bust someone open at any moment. He is far more intelligent than Goldberg and has proven that time and time again... seeing Goldberg has never beaten him.
 
Goldberg to me is extremely underrated both as a worker and when it comes to his impact on the business. However, Bret Hart is his Kryptonite. Bret Hart was 3-0 against Goldberg in singles matches and takes this one.
 
Despite the outcome of WWII it is hard to vote for someone that is Jewish in a German Pain match. Throw in the fact that Bret Hart supposedly had sexual relations with Sunny there is no way a booker would allow him to bleed. Plus all the other stuff others said in favor of Hart.
 
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