TNA Expects Too Much From Their Fans

[klunderbunker]

Here's a great example from my review of Impact which I'm still working on.

D’Angelo Dinero/Bully Ray vs. Samoa Joe/Brother D-Von

I didn’t hear a bell so I’m assuming this was an official match. The respective feuds break off with the Dudleys in the ring and the other two in the aisle. Pope tries to run but Okada stops him in the aisle. Who is Okada you ask? Well he’s the guy that Joe had filming Pope. Well ok, that’s fine and good. However, this is a great example of TNA asking the fans to do too much.

Okada has never appeared on Impact until he popped up in this. He’s been on Xplosion, but since that show is referenced maybe once every six months on Impact, unless you pay really close attention to TNA or know him from his Japan days, this guy is a totally random addition that you’ve never seen before but apparently you’re supposed to be familiar with.

It confuses the viewer because the viewer is guided by the announcers. The announcers treat Okada like someone they’re completely familiar with rather than someone that has never been seen on Impact before. This makes fans think they’ve forgotten someone or even confuses them because they try to figure out why they don’t know who he is.

What that does is distract them from what’s going on in the story. This is another shining example of a very easily solved problem that TNA just lets happen. Here’s how you fix it. Tenay: “Ladies and gentlemen that man’s name is Okada. He’s been a member of TNA’s roster for a few months now and has been appearing on our syndicated program Xplosion.”

Bam ten seconds and you accomplish two things. You establish this guy isn’t a stranger to TNA and does have a connection to the company. You also let people know there is more TNA wrestling out there if they’re interested. See? Instead, we got this. Tenay: “It’s Okada.”

Ok, who’s Okada? Why should I care that he’s here? Should I be surprised? Is this a twist? Is this expected? Does he have a history with Pope? With Joe? Is he a wrestler? A businessman? A mercenary? All we know about him is that his name is Okada and he’s done some work for Joe and he dresses like Kato from Green Hornet. It’s confusing and it doesn’t have to be. That’s not good and it happens way too much in TNA.

This is something that happens often in TNA. Okada may have been referenced or appeared once on Impact prior to the involvement from Joe, but if he did we certainly weren't told of it. We either had to remember it or were lost. This happens far too often in TNA. If you miss a single segment or match or promo, you might not get a piece of information. It's not a huge deal in something like this, but this has happened in other instances in TNA.

So what do you think? Does TNA expect its fans to think too much and be responsible for remembering too much information? Or is this a good thing for the company?

 

[klunderbunker]

Sorry KB but Okada appeared on the 20th January edition of iMPACT in one of those fly on the wall vignettes they like to use with Joe telling him to keep up with the filming.

I know and I thought I put that in there. When he did, they said "It's Okada." Same problem they had this time. They never said who he was other than his name.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

I know and I thought I put that in there. When he did, they said "It's Okada." Same problem they had this time. They never said who he was other than his name.

Definitely correct, Russo's idea on continuity absolutely sucks - we've no idea of why he's in the arena in the first place and (more pertintly) what's his link to Samoa Joe. I hate to harp on about it in yet another thread but the Joe kidnapping angle still hasn't been explained and no one has ever even asked him "Yo Joe, who abducted you that time - had you stiffed Cracker Barrel on a bill?"

 

[Dwayne_Jason]

I believer TNA doesn't view itself as a company, in that I think it's too familiar to the fact that it's the ANTI-WWE. It's like you're watching a movie and someone just talks to you on the screen facing the camera, clearly aware that it's a movie. WWE, while it's criticized (and rightly so) for never bringing up past events or never listening to hardcore fans do a good job or making the fans aware of the situation. I mean if tommorow, creative decided to re-package Yoshi Tatsu and did a spot he used to do in his former gimmick they wouldn't mention it like it like "this is a move from the old gimmick." A classic example is when Orton double DDT'd legacy at 'Mania, Cole, (despite it being a sorta botch) said "WE NEVER SEE THIS!!" When it just happened like two 'Manias ago. In that sense the best way to describe TNA is the desperate guy who wants to be real close to a girl who just broke up, but for some reason can't do it. So, yeah. TNA's a fatass.

 

[MachoMadness1988]

So it's a wrestler that doesn't appear much, and they called him by name...LETS KILL TNA!!! He has appeared before, and they know who he is. What were they supposed to say? Who the hell is that guy? It's just not a big deal. Atleast they are giving the guys something to do.

I think the fans expect too much out of TNA. They expect them to be perfect, and they're not. No company is perfect. Not WWE, not TNA, not ROH, not Dragon Gate USA, ect.

 

[Rampage Bentley]

So it's a wrestler that doesn't appear much, and they called him by name...LETS KILL TNA!!! He has appeared before, and they know who he is. What were they supposed to say? Who the hell is that guy? It's just not a big deal. Atleast they are giving the guys something to do.

I think the fans expect too much out of TNA. They expect them to be perfect, and they're not. No company is perfect. Not WWE, not TNA, not ROH, not Dragon Gate USA, ect.

The fans expect too much out of TNA? I'm sorry that I expect some sort of explanation as to who someone is or why one of the top guys is running from him scared. What are they supposed to do? How bout give him a match on Impact or I dunno.... INTRODUCE HIM. Why would it be so hard for even Samoa Joe to grab the stick and introduce him. TNA is so awful at booking guys, just look at Matt Morgan since Anderson won the title.

 

[MachoMadness1988]

The fans expect too much out of TNA? I'm sorry that I expect some sort of explanation as to who someone is or why one of the top guys is running from him scared. What are they supposed to do? How bout give him a match on Impact or I dunno.... INTRODUCE HIM. Why would it be so hard for even Samoa Joe to grab the stick and introduce him. TNA is so awful at booking guys, just look at Matt Morgan since Anderson won the title.

If you watch the segment, Mike Tenay clearly says "That's Okada, Samoa Joe's camera man". Isn't that introduction enough? Or does Samoa Joe need to grab a mic and be like "This Okada. He weighs 200lb. His favorite color is blue. He likes to kick ass. Yada Yada Yada". Give me a break. This is just nitpicky crap.

Also, he wasn't running from Okada he was running from Samoa Joe.

 

[MB1025]

If you watch the segment, Mike Tenay clearly says "That's Okada, Samoa Joe's camera man". Isn't that introduction enough? Or does Samoa Joe need to grab a mic and be like "This Okada. He weighs 200lb. His favorite color is blue. He likes to kick ass. Yada Yada Yada". Give me a break. This is just nitpicky crap.

Also, he wasn't running from Okada he was running from Samoa Joe.

I don't know what is more ridiculous. The fact that people took the time to write a short novel about being angry over why Okada wasn't introduced or the fact that a thread was made because they wanted to know more about him. They said it was Joe's cameraman Okada.

 

[TCBT]

I agree with this topic as well as with MachoMadness1988. TNA expects too much from fans, but on the other hand, fans expect to much from TNA. It's a vicous cycle.

I think that fans, at least the ones that I've talked to, expect TNA to be something of a competition to WWE. It's not. It can't be. At least not the way it's going.

At the same time, TNA insults fans' intelligence week in and week out. They provide the most amateurish storylines, with no concept of consistancy. Nevermind that Morgan was involved in every single beatdown Anderson received since Fortune was formed. Now he cares about him. And he cares about what the fans think, too! Nevermind that Sting's heel turn without an explanation was finally being addressed. It gets addressed, THEY is formed, and he leaves. And the one man who vowed to fight the good fight has had NOTHING to do with defending TNA from THEY (Immortal) besides a slapstick storyline with Abyss. Now he's a heel insulting the fans and calling Joe fat.

That's what we as fans have to work with.... This might be a topic for another thread, but TNA needs what UFC had - a serious change in the head of its staff. UFC was heard about, but unsuccessful. Dana White took over, made a complete overhaul to the product and made it the success that it is practically overnight. And what helped UFC reach superstardom (among other things)?????? A little TV show on Spike TV....

 

[Shakin' Abe]

The bottom line here kids is that TNA doesn't expect too much from it's fans. TNA expects too little from it's writers. So much talent and so little ambition to use it correctly.

 

[Raven]

Before this IMPACT I've seen okada maybe once and thats because i googled him when i saw TNA had signed him, I had no idea he was the cameraman until tenay said so. I must have missed him in that joe video. But i think your right TNa does expect to much from its fans. But i enhoy it so i wont bash it to much lol

 

[roethlisberger78]

Well I gotta jump on ship with the OP, I try and catch TNA weekly because imma wrestling fan and normally I'll enjoy the product just because I like wrestling, and at the same time I try and catch WWE weekly also but just some times with work and everything I cant. What I'm getting at is I can miss an episode of Raw or Smackdown and still have a good idea of whats going on because things are explained either by anouncers or the rewinds and such, if I miss an episode of TNA then im completely lost the following week. I knew that Joe had been taping Pope (mind you I dont even understand why Pope went heel) but I had no idea what so ever who this okada was. Believe me I dont like bitching about the product put out and I deal with what both the companys do good or bad but just somethings about TNA drive me crazy and that being one of them.

One more complaint does anyone hate how TNA doesnt build their pay per views like Against All Odds but damned if they aint talking about how big their show will be in March just free TV. That drives me nuts also.

 

[Dizzy]

Well, not in that example but yes I do believe so. For example, people say TNA should have rebuilt with younger talent since 2005. Last time I checked, they didn't even have a strong fanbase or profit in 2005.

You can't go on the road without having a fanbase in venues. Yet, people love to say they should have already when they just offiically estbalished a fanbase in cities.

Another example is using AJ Styles at a top face when he is not a draw whatsoever. We all remember his 6 month title reign. Why was there people complain he lost the belt to RVD? He had a Reign from September to March.

People complained TNA doesn't push the Motor City Machine Guns. They push them, now they complain they are not main events. What?

Prime examples.

 

[shattered dreams]

From their fans? No. From the casual wrestling fan? Maybe. Then again I am not sure there are many casual wrestling fans anymore, especially in the TNA audience. TNA has been trying this different style of storytelling for a while. I personally like it. I do not see why they should book their product for the people that only casually watch. It is not like minor shit like this matters to a casual fan anyway. The stories tend to function on a few levels. TNA is just adding something beyond the overly simplistic concepts that tend to dominate wrestling storylines. Missing the small stuff doesn't hurt anything unless you are trying to look deeper into the stories. The people that are trying to look deeper are not the casual fans. If the alternative is having everything spoonfed to you like a child then give me what TNA does 10 times out of 10.

Bischoff has made it pretty clear in interviews that they are doing this in an attempt to change the way people watch the show. It is an interesting idea because simplistic does not differentiate you when you are seeking an audience. Simplistic and non-controversial is what you slowly switch to once you already have an audience and you just want to appeal to as many people as possible.

 

[Rampage Bentley]

If you watch the segment, Mike Tenay clearly says "That's Okada, Samoa Joe's camera man". Isn't that introduction enough? Or does Samoa Joe need to grab a mic and be like "This Okada. He weighs 200lb. His favorite color is blue. He likes to kick ass. Yada Yada Yada". Give me a break. This is just nitpicky crap.

Also, he wasn't running from Okada he was running from Samoa Joe.

Joe backed Pope up to the ramp, Pope turned around and was going to run back up the ramp until Okada came out. Pope stop dead in his tracks, looked at the two of them and ran away from both.

I guess what I need is not so much an introduction as to what his name is and who he is, but his character. Right now all we know about him is he's a camera man. Why would Pope be afraid of a camera man? It just made him look bad.

 

[UltimateHitman]

I agree w/KB that there needed to be something more. I, who had never seen the ONE impact people say Okada was on, was like wtf? I mean, yeah, they said his name, but whoopedyhotdamndedoo, give him a little more than that. I thought "Oh, no, Joe's a bigger guy, what the hell is this, a new "Green Hornet" gimmick for him?" They at least gave Crimson a little more acknowledgment than that when he popped in as Red's little brother.

I also agree w/Shakin' Abe (wtf? lol) There's a serious problem with the writing staff. Not like it's recent, earth shattering news, but let's face it they need something else.

The booking is crap. We've known this since the fall of WCW, yet they went with the same booking team that killed an already successful wrestling federation. Why in the hell did they hire people that have notoriously been credited w/killing a major competitor to the WWE at one time? I'll never know the answer to that one, because it's the total opposite of good business sense. If you knew of a teacher that has had a meltdown and hospitalized some kids, or slept w/their underage students, you wouldn't want to hire them for a teaching position would you?

Back to the subject at hand, I definitely think that they change things around too much w/out giving closure to a storyline, plus they change it around too damn quick. Jarrett, for instance. He goes from beating down Angle and Joe to suddenly doing the MMA schtick, to ending that and dragging Karen onscreen to sitting around the house w/the kids while Angle apparently sees none of it because he's in the middle of the other storyline. WTF?? Every other guy in Immortal is kind of tied to the same storyline for the most part yet Jarrett's off wandering about in left field doing shit they either don't care about or don't notice.

Same goes w/the Pope, like TCBT pointed out. He was looking to be involved in the Immortal opposition. He's taking up the mantle after Sting and Nash leave. Then after a little altercation w/Abyss he's flipping the script and turning heel and feuding w/Joe. There's no f'n continuity, and damn sure isn't any storyline closure.

They need to drop the dead weight before they go the route of WCW. They need to either buy out the contracts of, or straight up fire, Russo, Hogan, and Bischoff. I could actually tolerate Bischoff if he was by himself, but not in a head creative position. Give him some creative input, but not control. He wasn't actually that bad in WWE when he didn't have his cronies in tow and was kept in check.

And one other thing before I finish. The people that keep denying there are any similarities to WCW really are hoping beyond hope. TNA is starting to vastly represent the latter day dubya c dubya with the congestion of egos, spotlight hogging, and creative input. I think they need somebody a little more authoritative at the top who knows about the business, but doesn't cater to the egos. I don't work backstage for TNA, but it appears that with the lack of knowledgeable authority figures, too many people are getting too much creative freedom and as such are pitching things for their own selfish gain, not the good of the company, and get away w/it because of name recognition.

Jarrett, Hogan, Bischoff, Russo, probably both Hardys, Nash when he was there, and some others, are just plumping their bank accounts at TNA's expense and not being kept on much of a respectable workrate level. Case in point, I've even noticed a change in attitude from RVD (who was one of my favorite guys a while back) and I've noticed he's kind of gotten a little plumper and just going through the motions. In a situation such as this, it seems as though the fire and energy are gone and he's just there to "do a job" and collect a check. (As opposed to doing a job well and truly pushing himself for a job he loves, ala Cena in the "E").

Damn, I've written way too much about this but I think you get the point. Something needs to change and soon. Sure, it's never going to be perfect because nothing is. But it could at the very least be better.

Edit: Read something that was posted while I was writing..

From their fans? No. From the casual wrestling fan? Maybe. Then again I am not sure there are many casual wrestling fans anymore, especially in the TNA audience. TNA has been trying this different style of storytelling for a while. I personally like it. I do not see why they should book their product for the people that only casually watch. It is not like minor shit like this matters to a casual fan anyway.

But it should matter to the casual wrestling fan, because that's who you want to change into loyal viewers, right? I mean, if you don't make it interesting to somebody that casually comes across it, then you won't make any progress.

It's like tv shows. There have been shows I was not aware of being on tv (as I don't watch a lot of programming these days anyway) that I've casually flipped to and ended up either enjoying that show and maybe watching it at a later time, or even becoming a big fan of and keeping up w/it. If I hadn't gotten interested in a "casual" manner, they wouldn't have gotten another loyal viewer. And I'm sure that happens quite a bit and makes a pretty good impact on a shows ratings.

 

[X]

I know and I thought I put that in there. When he did, they said "It's Okada." Same problem they had this time. They never said who he was other than his name.

Tenay briefly mentioned he was Joe's camera-man when he cuts promos over the last few weeks/months.

Crowd still had no idea who he was for the most part and his introduction to the angle makes no sense, but there are much bigger problems in TNA currently than an unexplained midcard presence. Okada is a pretty good worker, he won't be lost if they do tag matches, he's been wrestling for TNA for awhile now on Xplosion and house shows.

 

[chrome_305]

Pope went heal because he was never face.
He was caught taking kids money to the strip club.Does everyone forget that Pope was a crooked Pope.There have been countless segments about it. Samoe Joe and his camera man are the ones who caught him in the act.Thus leaving him no choice but revel his true character.

Boom there you go your explanation.

If you watch TNA then you would know this.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

I'd much rather have TNA expect a lot from me than insult my intelligence on a weekly basis with a product that's probably made by complete and utter morons, mostly fed to morons. Mostly.

That being said, I must correct the OP on something. It's not that much TNA's fault as it is Tenay and Spazz's. Tazz and Tenay are by FAR the worst announcing team that I've ever had to endure. "Listen" is not the term to use here. Often time Tenay has to correct Tazz and even remind him with his tone that it's time to cut the jokes and tell the story of the match or the promo. Tenay is clearly the more coherent of the two as Tazz constantly chokes on his own words, forget words, messes words up and god damn it he also has a "vintage" quote. No it's not "let the pidgeons loose" it's "frustrating", or should I say "FUHstrating". I don't like Tazz, I think he should be a trainer or a guy that puts the rings together. Tazz and Tenay forget that TNA is a small company and that people are checking it out, people who SOMEHOW (note the sarcasm) don't know shit about it. Take the last episode for example.

*Immortal comes out to beat up Anderson
Tazz - Immortal walking down the ramp!
>Viewer - Okay, these guys are heels and they're with Hardy, I see Matt Hardy there.
*Fourtune follows them a few seconds later.
Tazz - Here comes Fourtune too!
Viewer - ..another stable? Hold on, are they WITH Immortal? If they're with Immortal why don't they have ONE name?

Things like that.

The announcers never, ever add to a promo or a match, they take away from it, and I think that this is part of (if not THE) reason why ClusterFucker or whatever the name of the OP is thinks the way he does, and he's right. WWE's absolutely dreadful but the announcers are top notch. I watch RAW every two months or so and all I know about what's going on is what I see as an article on the web, but the three fundamental questions - who, why and when - are always answered no matter if it's a promo or a match.

Bring back Don West, at least he screams.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

Pope went heal because he was never face.
He was caught taking kids money to the strip club.Does everyone forget that Pope was a crooked Pope.There have been countless segments about it. Samoe Joe and his camera man are the ones who caught him in the act.Thus leaving him no choice but revel his true character.

Boom there you go your explanation.

If you watch TNA then you would know this.

Are you sure YOU'RE watching TNA? Pope was a face for .. shit .. a year. I'm sure he was a face when Hogan and Bischoff arrived, he was a jobber up until that point, and he turned heel a month or two ago.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I never really dwelled on who Okada is, for example, because it's not really all that much different from what TNA does with most other wrestlers. I never really gave it all that much thought, I suppose, because TNA has a way of making most of its roster feel irrelevant much of the time.

Let's just say, for example, nobody knew who Matt Hardy & Mickie James were. That they hadn't spent most of the past decade becoming stars in the WWE and all that. What I see on the surface with them is just a fairly out of shape man in his mid 30s with braided hair and a woman with a gimmick that's little more than something of a southern/country stereotype. That might be all well and good but the problem is that these two wrestlers aren't unknowns, they're quite well known and are aquisitions of TNA that are much more expensive than their homegrown talent or talent that they've brought in off the indy circuit.

The point is that big names like Matt Hardy & Mickie James are just two random names on the roster right now. They're all but irrelevant at this point and if well known personalities like them are irrelevant, then just think of how most of the roster is.

 

[chrome_305]

Are you sure YOU'RE watching TNA? Pope was a face for .. shit .. a year. I'm sure he was a face when Hogan and Bischoff arrived, he was a jobber up until that point, and he turned heel a month or two ago.

Yes I have been watching Tna and it makes since to me.open your imagination and stop looking to be spoon feed.Yes he was face when hogan and them where around than he was caught doing dirty deeds.

"Oh" No! The Pope changed his attitude. He was nice yesterday ....wahh! wahhh!...... wahhhh!

Good god! A man can't change from heal to face during off-scene and backstage segments? It sound logical to me.He turned his back on the fans because, he was caught so the secret out about the pope.I guess he cant pretend to be face.

Should he just fake an injury than apoun his return he was heal.I sure we never seen that before.

TNA is not Wwe, nor should they try to be.

If you really follow the segments then you would know.I like what TNA has been doing in the past few episodes of Impact.I think the segment with how they intertwined Mr.Kennedy siging autographs and the match was flawless.I loved it.

 

[Tech N9ne]

To be honest, TNA flip flops with story lines and what not so often, that missing something one week could make you wonder what the Hell is going on with that certain something the following week.

I DVR it... But if you don't DVR it, taking a piss could result in being lost when it comes to one of TNA's major angles... LOL

 

[klunderbunker]

Pope went heal because he was never face.
He was caught taking kids money to the strip club.Does everyone forget that Pope was a crooked Pope.There have been countless segments about it. Samoe Joe and his camera man are the ones who caught him in the act.Thus leaving him no choice but revel his true character.

Boom there you go your explanation.

If you watch TNA then you would know this.

He's Joe's cameraman. We know that and his name.

Is he a wrestler?
Is he a friend of Joe?
Is he a guy with history with Pope?
Is he a photographer?
Am I supposed to be surprised he's here?
Is this a twist?
Is this expected?

We know nothing about him and TNA has told us nothing about him. I shouldn't have to watch a syndicated show (you know, as in one that I'm never told when it's on or that it exists for the most part) to know a supporting character in a storyline. We know NOTHING about Okada and that's apparently ok with TNA. It's confusing to fans that don't watch every single show but "it's not a big deal." I hear that more often in expectations for TNA's plot holes and it's getting old.

 

[Rampage Bentley]

I'd much rather have TNA expect a lot from me than insult my intelligence on a weekly basis with a product that's probably made by complete and utter morons, mostly fed to morons. Mostly..

What a surprise, in a thread that contains absolutely nothing about WWE, where WWE has not been mentioned, the first thing you do is bring it up... just to bash it.

That being said, I must correct the OP on something. It's not that much TNA's fault as it is Tenay and Spazz's. Tazz and Tenay are by FAR the worst announcing team that I've ever had to endure. "Listen" is not the term to use here. Often time Tenay has to correct Tazz and even remind him with his tone that it's time to cut the jokes and tell the story of the match or the promo. Tenay is clearly the more coherent of the two as Tazz constantly chokes on his own words, forget words, messes words up and god damn it he also has a "vintage" quote. No it's not "let the pidgeons loose" it's "frustrating", or should I say "FUHstrating". I don't like Tazz, I think he should be a trainer or a guy that puts the rings together. Tazz and Tenay forget that TNA is a small company and that people are checking it out, people who SOMEHOW (note the sarcasm) don't know shit about it. Take the last episode for example


*Immortal comes out to beat up Anderson
Tazz - Immortal walking down the ramp!
>Viewer - Okay, these guys are heels and they're with Hardy, I see Matt Hardy there.
*Fourtune follows them a few seconds later.
Tazz - Here comes Fourtune too!
Viewer - ..another stable? Hold on, are they WITH Immortal? If they're with Immortal why don't they have ONE name?

Things like that.

The announcers never, ever add to a promo or a match, they take away from it, and I think that this is part of (if not THE) reason why ClusterFucker or whatever the name of the OP is thinks the way he does, and he's right. WWE's absolutely dreadful but the announcers are top notch. I watch RAW every two months or so and all I know about what's going on is what I see as an article on the web, but the three fundamental questions - who, why and when - are always answered no matter if it's a promo or a match.

Bring back Don West, at least he screams.

I like how it's "not TNA's fault" it's the fault of their announcers who they've hired and continue to employ on a weekly basis. It's more than just a lack of announcer explanation, if they're gonna put a guy in that position they have to put him in the ring or in a fight to show that he's formidable. No matter how the announcers introduce him he's still nothing more than a camera man who punked out one of TNA's top guys.