"The Wrestling Is Better." So?

ZeroVX

2-Time WZCW Mayhem Champion
This is an argument that pops up whenever I debate about wrestling with my brother. Whenever we talk about the differences between WWE and TNA, he brings this up as a pro for TNA. And I can see where he's coming from, in the sense that the wrestling is a different style than in WWE.

The WWE's wrestling style uses very few unique moves outside of the ones integrated with the wrestler performing them. For example, if you were to look up some of Sheamus' matches from before he was in WWE, you'd see that he could perform a slingshot shoulder block that was fairly impressive. He's never going to use it in WWE though, unless they establish it as a move his character would use.

In TNA, however, the wrestlers commonly use moves outside of their movesets to spice up their matches and grab the crowd's attention. Also, the moves themselves are generally flashier and more impressive than the ones shown in the WWE. Guys like Alex Shelley, Chris Sabin, AJ Styles, Samoa Joe, etc, are considered the cream of the crop in terms of actual wrestling ability because of this. It's one of the few ways one can compare TNA to WCW positively, in that it's similar to the often-praised Cruiserweight Division of its time. They were the ones revolutionizing the accepted wrestling style of the era, much like the "TNA Originals" are doing today.

However, there is a large problem with that happening in this era, and it involves what I and many of you are using right now: The internet.

In WCW's time period, yes, superior wrestling and new styles could be used as legitimate reasons to watch one show over the other. With the internet, however, that is non-existent. Any show on any channel is up on the internet within hours of its airing. Meaning that, if I wanted to, I could watch any show I missed just by looking around a few websites. I can, and have, watch shows from almost a decade ago that aired in another country, in another language. If, for example, on an episode of IMPACT, Jay Lethal was going to take on Douglas Williams. That match is taking place late on the show, but is the only thing that interests me about that show. If I wanted to, I could just skip watching the show on Thursday, and the next day, look up the one match on the internet. I feel satisfied with the one match, and I didn't have to wade through almost two hours of crap I didn't want to see.

The point I'm trying to make is that you can't ride on just "good wrestling" and hope people will tune in. It's one of the reasons ROH doesn't have a primetime TV show on a mainstream channel. You have to give the fans a reason to watch not just the one match that will feature good wrestling, but even the bad matches. In other words, decent stories. And I'm sure many of you will make arguments for the storylines going on right now, but that doesn't mean the people involved are following them. What did RVD VS Rob Terry have to do with either man's storylines? Basically, good or bad, a performer's matches should connect with their stories.

Discuss.
 
The WWE's wrestling style uses very few unique moves outside of the ones integrated with the wrestler performing them. For example, if you were to look up some of Sheamus' matches from before he was in WWE, you'd see that he could perform a slingshot shoulder block that was fairly impressive. He's never going to use it in WWE though, unless they establish it as a move his character would use.

Actually, Sheamus did use that Slingshot shoulder block in his Hell in a Cell match against Randy orton. I haven't seen him use it since, but I'm sure he'll pull it out again sometime in the future.

You make a lot of good point's though. It's World Wrestling entertainment. Good wrestling is a very important part of it, but you can't just coast on that and hope to make millions and millions of dollars.
 
I get your point, but how is that specific to just TNA's wrestling? I could make the exact same argument to justify why I don't sit through two hours of RAW when I know anything huge that happens (shocking return, debut, angle, spot, etc) can either be found online or simply caught on one of the reruns of RAW on Universal (if you get that channel) or on RAW A.M.

If a fan gives a crap about watching good matches then, if they're anything like me, they'd rather not know the outcome before they watch. That would be their motivation to watch it live (or on first airing). The same applies to the fans who don't want to miss that big return or segment when it first happens and have to watch it after the fact.
 
You make a lot of good points. I've watched tons of matches on the internet. However, there are flaws in this point. If ROH mirrored WWE in production I think it would be a war all over again. Same with TNA. I'm not sure about ROH because I don't watch it (obviously you hear from the IWC that everyone's a badass wrestler) but TNA is doing something edgey. Let me say for perfect clarification NOT NEW! But WWE isn't doing any of those things (maybe except for one shots that stave off old school viewers from leaving. They do easy storylines, safer and boring matches, the only real risks they take are pushing talent (Nexus, Miz, Sheamus) and that's only happened in the past 1 or 2 years. They have no reason to push any line because they are drawing it for the whole industry.
 
that's a great point. With the "instant gratification" generation, you can watch just pieces of what you want to see, and move on with your life. Wrestling, like many other mediums, will have to learn to adapt to that mind set. Right now, I use my DVR as if my life depended on it, especially for football. I record the game or games I want to watch, then use the Fast forward function to move through a slow quarter and ALL of the commercials. I can literally watch 3 football games in the same time that it takes to watch ONE live.

Wrestling is no different. I record Raw and Smackdown and turn them on about an hour into the show so I can speed through that which I don't want to be bothered with and see just the stuff that interests me. That's just how our lives are these days. It's a blessing and a curse to be able to do that though.

If I hadn't watched a few shows as they were aired, I would have missed out completely on my current favorite wrestler, the Miz, and his build to the top of the company. I didn't care to listen to this nobody come out and run his mouth every week, but then, once I heard him, I was hooked. He's not the greatest, but he's extremely entertaining to ME.

I think, if we could get people to watch an entire show, rather than just highlights or replays, you'd see better support for whatever product you're endorsing. As it is, with TNA, I watch the "after show" Reaction alot, but don't watch ANY of the actual Impact airings. I just read about results and pick up on storylines from Reaction. If something catches my attention, I'll DVR the next week's Impact and watch JUST that storyline.

Again, our technologies are a blessing and a curse. If I couldn't fast forward and record the shows, then I'd probably be tuning in religiously just to see that little bit I wanted to see.
 
I have to agree and disagree.If Tna had storylines then i think more people would tune in,good storylines for that matter.I watch TNA and i don't plan on giving up on them even though most of the time after watching impact i feel rather more dissapointed than satisfied.Is wrestling better today than in the last several years?yes imo,but that doesn't mean everyone is watching or going to wrestling events like they use to.WWE is having a difficult time selling tix for their upcoming event in MSG and MSG was once a sure sell out.TNA has all the talent in the world Joe,Styles,Kaz,Williams,MCMG,Gen Me,Beer-Money you'd think they'd be filthy rich and WWE has the money but don't give the fans good quality matches all the time cause they're storylines are what keep people watching.
 
If you're into more innovative wrestling, that's the only thing that matters.

Regardless, I like a balance, so I generally put up with the bad in WWE and wait for the good wrestling/story lines. However, in terms of just wrestling, TNA PPVs will probably satisfy you a bit more.

Doesn't make it a more compelling product. But, if you're into that aspect of it and that is your main focus, then that's what you'll enjoy about it.
 
Wait, hold the phone. Just because it's "World Wrestling ENTERTAINMENT" that means that they shouldn't focus as much on the wrestling?

Look, the WWE is the best company in the world today. It has been for a very, very long time. The way I see it, if you claim to be the best, you better prove it every Monday. They prove it with their production, the sets, the music, the awesome video packages. Actually, they prove with everything money can buy. When it comes to the glitz and glam WWE is unsurpassed. Period. TNA won't do better, nor will anyone else. Ever.

However, when it comes to things that can't be bought with money, things like awesome wrestlers, talent and great matches, that's when WWE begins to equal other second rate companies. Wrestling is imporant. Very important.

I hope some of you here saw ROH's Final Battle. Ring of Honor won a fan yesterday. They won me. I actually became a ROH fan just like I became a TNA fan. I saw a few shows at first, it didn't grab my attention much, but then I saw an amazing event and they captured me. They won my interest. Final Battle was the living, breathing proof why wrestling is an art form. A wrestling match CAN entertain better than a promo.

Unfortunately, WWE doesn't like the wrestling that much, and that's bad. I'm sorry, but pyro and a big arena won't make me believe that this shit is good. Sometimes they hit and miss with the storylines, and sometimes they nail it. The problem is, no matter how good the storyline is, every one of them end in some sort of a PPV match. It's the final chapter of a story, the match is supposed to reward the fan for sticking through the entire thing, it should be the best part of the feud, and the last time I saw such a case was Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker. No feud so far has ended in a good/great match. None. Nada. The feud's fine, then they wrestle and put me to sleep.

Fine, don't do a lot of wrestling, I understand that. WWE's about entertainment, okay, that's their direction, I'm fine with that. But please WWE, deliver when the time comes, you haven't in a VERY long time. That's the difference between WWE and TNA.

See, TNA doesn't do 5 star matches every week. Quite the contrary. Just like WWE's RAW and SD! matches, iMPACT's are not that exciting. But when TNA HAS to deliver, when they top off a big feud and they must blow the roof off the place - they always, always do.

The year started off with a great feud between Anderson and Angle. The feud ended at Lethal Lockdown in an incredible match, it had everything you wished for. The spots, the intensity, the drama, everything.

Beer Money vs The Guns had the best matches of the year, both TNA and WWE. It's subjective, but I believe their fifth and last match was the best. These guys told a story with no words, but with their bodies. Amazing stuff again.

The build up for the M.E of Bound for Glory saw some awesome matches. Angle vs Hardy was phenomenal, both times. Then Hardy vs Anderson vs Angle was also a great match that had everything.

TNA delivers in big match situations, where WWE does not, unless the big match involves Undertaker or Shawn Michaels. If TNA is doing one thing better than WWE, it's the quality of their wrestling and how great their roster is. And that's why they're not better than WWE overall. The majority of the WRESTLING fans enjoy TNA and ROH much more than they enjoy the WWE. The rest watch the WWE because it's fun to watch, it sparkles, there's a lot of nifty non-wrestling things going on and all of that outweighs the lack of great wrestling.

There are two types of fans, and it just so happens that the people who don't care that much about the wrestling part of wrestling enjoy the WWE more. The rest of us are pleased with TNA and ROH. Personally, I'm liking the direction TNA's taking. They're more storyline heavy right now and they have enough wrestling on their shows, which is good most of the time but we do get some snoozers. TNA realizes that it's not all about the wrestling, and it really isn't IF you want to make money and expand.

Bottom line - WWE pleases their fans and they enjoy the product. WWE fans will agree that WWE gives them everything they ask for. They entertain them in one way or the other. To me - they're fucking boring. The storylines are very bland, the wrestlers are as well, everyone's the same to me, there's no adernaline, no excitement, and the company just floats on the fame they made through the years.

TNA also pleases their fans, they do what we like. I enjoy the program every week. I get some wrestling, I get some badass characters, I get some hot chicks, I get some trashtalking, I get some legends, I get some very talented young guys, I enjoy what they're doing and they're fun for me. They're not for other people. Most of the people who have seen TNA and refuse to like it are being too smarky. They bitch that Hogan and Bischoff are there, that Russo is there, Dixie is a mark, the arena is small, the music sucks, the production sucks, they hire former WWE wrestlers, they do this, they do that, yet none of the things I mentioned are in direct corollation with how good a company is in reality. Is TNA worse just because Bischoff's there? Because Russo is booking? Because Dixie Carter has no wrestling background? Isn't Freddie Prinze Jr. a writer for the WWE? Does the size of an arena somehow suck the talent out of the wrestlers? When did the quality of a certain wrestler depend on where he worked not how he works? Are we seriously going to blame TNA for adding valuable players to their team? Isn't that what sports teams all over the world do? If a good player is a free agent, and you can sign him, I think you'll be a fucking idiot not to. How come I never hear people bitch about TNA's wrestlers having no mic skills and charisma like say ROH's, or being horrible wrestlers like CZW's? How come I never hear complaints about a moronic storyline that are based on true, unbiased arguments? TNA has them, believe me, I can name a few, but I've seen people who love Nexus and hate Immortal, and that's idiotic, no matter what kind of a fan you are. Those fans are blockheads and screw you. The other half are people who just don't like the product. It's boring to them, it's not different, it's not an alternative. I respect these people. I've asked them exactly WHY they dislike it and they gave very, very valid reasons and I can't do nothing but respect their opinion.

TNA is TNA and WWE is WWE. I don't like the WWE, but I tune in every Monday and even when I'm not watching, I leave the TV on just so I can help out with the ratings. One guy isn't much but I feel like they got me into pro wrestling years ago and it's the least I can do if I can't stand their program now. Both companies have a shit-load of things to fix, and I hope they both do because the business is slowly dying and that's bad for every single one of us. Be rational when you judge a product.
 
I have to say that tna has better wrestlers. But wwe has everything else that is better than tna. Tna has to look like they spent some money for ring entrance, theme music, costuming, more spacing for people in different arenas in different towns, speaker sound, pyro, better storylines and writers, scenery for a promotion and better promotion.
 
TNA may have the ability to but one better matches, but they don't do it on a consistent basis. How many solid matches are actually on Impact on a weekly basis? Not many. The PPVs are the only place where you have a chance of finding the "wrestling" you want to see, but even then, it's mostly hit and miss. I mean, the Dudleys are having a match against each other at the upcoming PPV. That tells you a lot.

I do believe that TNA's best wrestling is better than the WWE's, as evidecne by Angle/Anderson, as well as the Whole F'N Show and the Motor City Machinguns as a whole this year. However, great wrestling is not something that TNA can produce on a consistent basis while you know you're always going to get something solid in the WWE.
 
How is TNA wrestlers better than WWE who is better than CM Punk and Daniel Bryan and Regal. Don't forget if WWE wants they can throw "5 star" matches whenever they feel like. TNA are all about spotfests where is the technical aspect the ring psychology. The fueds that make you want to see a match. Remember WWE cant do that on a regular basis for the health of their superstars TNA is good but WWE is better ROH needs more variety in their wrestlers they are good but i want to see more indy stars get a shot in ROH.

We need more fueds to establish it back to where it was more realistic fueds from low card tv shows on superstars and smackdown to tna impact and roh even the indies wrestling is dying because all fans can guarantee on getting is a good match with spots no more drawn out hate intensified fueds we need more of those n wrestling UFC is taking over because of violence and hard hitting contests not flippy spots like the canadian destroyer which is a nice move but is so fake and makes wrestling look faker than it is along with super cena and i like cena btw
 
How is TNA wrestlers better than WWE who is better than CM Punk and Daniel Bryan and Regal. Don't forget if WWE wants they can throw "5 star" matches whenever they feel like. TNA are all about spotfests where is the technical aspect the ring psychology. The fueds that make you want to see a match. Remember WWE cant do that on a regular basis for the health of their superstars TNA is good but WWE is better ROH needs more variety in their wrestlers they are good but i want to see more indy stars get a shot in ROH.

People better than CM Punk:

*In the ring - AJ Styles, Kurt Angle, Alex Shelley, Chris Sabin, Doug Williams, Desmond Wolfe, RVD
*On the mic - Mr.Anderson, Robbie E. Ah, just joshin' ya. But Anderson is better.

People better than Daniel Bryan :

*In the ring - AJ Styles, Kurt Angle, Alex Shelley, maybe Desmond Wolfe.
*On the mic - Mr.Anderson, AJ Styles, Kurt Angle, The Pope, Desmond Wolfe, Jay Lethal, Matt Morgan.

People better than William Regal :

*In the ring - AJ Styles, Kurt Angle, Desmond Wolfe, Samoa Joe, Sabin, Shelley, Roode, Storm, RVD.
*On the mic - Anderson, Angle, Wolfe

It's evident that you have never watched TNA, or at least not in the last 365 days. Newsflash - TNA stopped doing the spot fests, the wrestling is more traditional now. In fact, it's gotten more technichal than high-flying. And hey, if WWE could pull off five star matches "on a regular basis" and doesn't, then that makes them pretty fuckin' stupid, don't you think?

P.S: I forgot to add this. I'm not going crazy about the headline of your topic. "The wrestling is better - So?" sounds to me like saying "The fucking is better - So?" about porn. We're watching professional wrestling, not professional entertainment, right?
 
lol shelly is better than punk how and how is aj better i will agree with kurt but he is getting up there with age like i said shelly and sabin are good but not messing with cm punk who can work different styles and can tell a story and sell a fued. bryan will also do the same with time i just think people over rate these tna wrestlers and forget that wwe has the best roster in the mainstream wrestling world. its just they protect their wrestlers and not have them go all out for injury reasons and anderson is average lol better than punk in any way. styles is good but can not and i repeat not sell a fued that what is wrestling is about feuds followed by a good intense match. that what holds most fans attention thats not what tna is doing and wwe isnt doing it either because their fueds are flat. ROH got great matches but the only fued that was worth sumthin is Generico vs Steen because it meant something other than the best in the world they do everytime
 
and remember wrestling is athletic contest showcased with entertainment u must not forget that matches by itself cant make wrestling neither can entertainment either u need both to survive in wrestling.
 
and remember wrestling is athletic contest showcased with entertainment u must not forget that matches by itself cant make wrestling neither can entertainment either u need both to survive in wrestling.

Unless the three letters that represent your company are W, W, and E. WWE is like The Undertaker. The Undertaker has one good match every year and that's at Wrestlemania. He's old, but he's flashy, and he's also passed his prime a long time ago. The fans will cheer him no matter what because he's been around for decades. The WWE has very few memorable matches every year. I'm talking Undertaker/Michaels type of thing. It's old, but it's flashy, and it passed its prime 10 years ago. The fans will watch it no matter what because it's been around for a very long time.

See, WWE can do just wrestling, or do what they do now, which is "entertainment" and low(er) quality wrestling, and they'll STILL survive because they are financially immortal. Their product doesn't have to be flawless, they already have 2 major shows which draw big ratings, their merch. sales are off the hook and they're a promotional machine. The WWE is a merchandise stand and a target for advertisers, with a hint of pro wrestling.

TNA, ROH or any other promotion not named WWE cannot allow themselves to be one dimensional because the fans have little to no patience for everything non-WWE. If TNA was just wrestling and no entertainment in the form of segments and storylines, it would either be dead or be like ROH. ROH is in the state that it's in because of their "JUST RASSLIN' FUCK MICROPHONES AND FUCK TNA" attitude.

Wrestling has come full circle again in terms of positions and attitude.

WWE is the WWE of the late 80's and early 90's in some ways. The colorful crap, the kiddy characters, targeting the lads and lasses, minus the history making and the great talent.

TNA is the early WCW.

ROH is the new ECW.
 
There's nothing new about the arguement that pro wrestling in its purest form ie matches does not draw. But the OP has made a good point that even the minority that tuned in to watch a wrestling show to see maybe one particular match won't do so today because of the advent of the internet. However like I said that I have always believed that only a minority of the audience tune in to a wrestling show only to watch the in-ring stuff.

Coming to TNA the fact that they are a "wrestling oriented" show has been consigned to history. Of course you can still see matches like MCMG vs Gen Me from time to time but on the whole the focus nowadays is on the Immortals. Almost every week you will see a thread complaining about the lack of in ring action in TNA. So yes the focus has shifted to storylines as far as TNA is concerned.

They are no longer a wrestling oriented show and so it cannot be used as an excuse for the fact that they do not draw in the ratings.
 
sorry ROH is not the new ECW never will be ECW has emotion ROH does not neither is Tna the new wcw WCW had good matches from main event to low card TNA does not and wwe still has good matches just overkill from its main event scene what is a good match to u please tell i would like to know?
 
sorry ROH is not the new ECW never will be ECW has emotion ROH does not neither is Tna the new wcw WCW had good matches from main event to low card TNA does not and wwe still has good matches just overkill from its main event scene what is a good match to u please tell i would like to know?

Please use some grammar. I mean even a little bit. I don't know how old you are, and if you can, but it's just easier on the eyes, no offense. ( YEAH LOTS OF OFFENSE, TAKE IT ALL ). Nah, no offense. <3 [Don't ban me for sarcasm this time, wouldja?]

Well, ROH is like ECW in terms of their attitude. You know, F everybody, we be doin' what we do, screw everyone else.

What's a good match to me? You want a list?

-Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker - Wrestlemania 19
-Best of 5 series between The Guns and Beer Money
-The Guns vs GenMe, the brawl that had no audience, I don't remember what the kayfabe name for it was.
-Kurt Angle vs Mr.Anderson - Lockdown
-AJ Styles vs Doug Williams - Turning Point
-Kurt Angle vs Jeff Hardy, the first one - iMPACT
-AJ Styles vs Kurt Angle - just pick one
-Hardy vs Anderson vs Angle - Bound for Glory

These are the most recent ones. My all time favourite match is kind of an unpopular decision I suppose, but it's Shawn Michaels vs Steve Austin at the time they were Tag Team Champions. I think it was at King of The Ring. That match where the special olympian with the Down Syndrome jumped the rail? Yeah, that one.
 
the no audience brawl was the most stupid match i seen with my two eyes im used to watch matches with drama and i can add daniel bryan vs dolph ziggler the times they fought along with the triple threat with byran miz and morrison, along with punk and hardy fued, let not forget about jericho vs bourne, jericho vs bryan, tatsu vs regal on superstars, kidd vs smith on raw recently they are good matches also i just seen the ones u mentioned and u know what people will remember as a great match for years to come is taker vs micheals for the drama, the intensity, the way it was executed. that best of 5 was a spotfest, and the rest were good but not remembered for anything other than that. and ziggler vs bryan takes a dump on all those tna matches u mentioned even morrison and sheamus had a good match recently sorry but tna does not throw good matches like u think they do. if they did then they would be rememberd but tna from 2002 to 2008 will be remembered but after that it has sucked i said it sucked so has wwe but wwe doesnt go all out like tna does and u know it.ROH doesnt have no attitude its just a wrestling promotion that uses japanese strong styles with little to any drama or storylines.
 
It works both ways though Zero. If the wrestling is irrelevant and the stories are all that matters then why are we watching this instead of something with real actors? Wrestling still makes up half the non-commercial time of the show. Hard to say that the quality of half of the show being better is irrelevant. Stories have more mass appeal but the quality of wrestling definitely matters, especially to a certain part of the fanbase.
 
Actually , I'd way rather watch stuff like AJ Styles Vs. Douglas Williams in a no-words spoken 20 minute iron man match than watch Smackdown even if there is drama between Del Rio & Mysterio or between Edge & Kane

RAW > TNA > NXT > Smackdown > Superstars imo

Another thing TNA has is a really awesome womens division , all their knockouts are hot as shit and actually good wrestlers who are generally actually given as much spotlight as the guys are and I love that (WWE seems to be trying to go that direction ever since Laycool/Natalya though so thats good)
 
People better than CM Punk:

*In the ring - AJ Styles, Kurt Angle, Alex Shelley, Chris Sabin, Doug Williams, Desmond Wolfe, RVD
*On the mic - Mr.Anderson, Robbie E. Ah, just joshin' ya. But Anderson is better.

I think you claiming people like Alex Shelley and Chris Sabin are better then CM Punk proves your opinion is a little off here. CM Punk knows psychology, he knows how to tell a story in the ring, and he knows how to play the crowd, and he does all of those things better then everyone you named aside from possibly Angle. And he can certainly wrestle, in the technical side of things, as good as all of the above when given the freedom to do so.


People better than Daniel Bryan :

*In the ring - AJ Styles, Kurt Angle, Alex Shelley, maybe Desmond Wolfe.
*On the mic - Mr.Anderson, AJ Styles, Kurt Angle, The Pope, Desmond Wolfe, Jay Lethal, Matt Morgan.

People better than William Regal :

Once again, your opinion is respected but a bit off. Bryan is easily on par with Styles, Shelley and Wolfe in the ring. And Jay Lethal, Styles and Morgan aren't any better then him on the mic. Hell, even Pope's overrated on the mic.


*In the ring - AJ Styles, Kurt Angle, Desmond Wolfe, Samoa Joe, Sabin, Shelley, Roode, Storm, RVD.
*On the mic - Anderson, Angle, Wolfe

This is utter bullshit right here. William Regal should've been a World champion in his prime, and could've been. He not only has phenomenal wrestling skills, but he's a complete package and can work the mic far better then most even give him credit for. More then half of those guys you named better in the ring aren't even close to lacing Regal's boots. In ring wrestlings about more then "moves", thanks.


In fact, you can toss in countless names in WWE such as Edge, Christian, Rey Mysterio, Alberto Del Rio, and so on and so on who could be argued to be better then TNA when it comes to wrestling. Why? Because through their wrestling these people not only get reactions, they draw from the crowd, and that's something TNA very much lacks. Their "stars" may have great matches in the technical sense, but if there's nothing more to the matches and those matches aren't making stars that are OVER or drawing anything, then who gives a shit? That's the difference between WWE and TNA.
 
The different wrestling styles is probably what I enjoy most about TNA. WWE's psychology based wrestling is great, but I'm still a fan of athletics. I like seeing guys do crazy shit and I love watching a striaght up good wrestling match.

As others have said before me, balance is key. I don't care how good a storyline is, if the match sucks, the match sucks. I personally prefer a good match with no build than good build with a shit match, but balancing them out should not be over looked. WWE may be an enterainment company, but they seem to forget sometimes that wrestling is what they are using to entertain us.
 
I think you claiming people like Alex Shelley and Chris Sabin are better then CM Punk proves your opinion is a little off here. CM Punk knows psychology, he knows how to tell a story in the ring, and he knows how to play the crowd, and he does all of those things better then everyone you named aside from possibly Angle. And he can certainly wrestle, in the technical side of things, as good as all of the above when given the freedom to do so.

You've never seen Alex Shelley and Chris Sabin in singles bouts, have ya? Look up Alex Shelley VERSUS Chris Sabin and see for yourself that not only are they better moves wise, they ALSO know psychology. They've proven it a lot of times both in singles bouts and tag team matches. CM Punk's sissy kicks and a knee doesn't REALLY count as athleticism to me. He's got psychology in the ring, though.

You telling me that AJ Styles, Doug Williams and Desmond Wolfe can't tell a better story in the ring than Punk just shows me that debating something with you is completely pointless. You are, after all, a complete TNA basher. But who am I to judge, I'm a mark. Let's continue, though.

Once again, your opinion is respected but a bit off. Bryan is easily on par with Styles, Shelley and Wolfe in the ring. And Jay Lethal, Styles and Morgan aren't any better then him on the mic. Hell, even Pope's overrated on the mic.

Bryan is SO not par with Styles. Maybe Shelley, deffinitely Wolfe.

Danielson is pure shit on the mic stop kidding yourself. Show me one good Daniel Bryan promopromo and I'll pull my nuts out. I don't buy the guy at all.

This is utter bullshit right here. William Regal should've been a World champion in his prime, and could've been. He not only has phenomenal wrestling skills, but he's a complete package and can work the mic far better then most even give him credit for. More then half of those guys you named better in the ring aren't even close to lacing Regal's boots. In ring wrestlings about more then "moves", thanks.

Should-a, Would-a, Could-a. Regal is awesome, don't get me wrong, I hate WWE for not giving him what he deserved, he's one of THOSE guys, but let's be realistic. He's a full package ... eh debatable, but he's got above avreage talent at everything he has to do as a performer. The guys are mentioned are better than him, period. Can you remember the last memorable William Regal match? I can't. I can remember the last memorable AJ match. Yesterday. I can remember the last awesome Angle and Wolfe match. I can't remember shit from Regal. Not in the last decade anyhow. I recall him drinking piss tea. That's the highlight of his career right there.

I wonder if you'd be jumping up and down his cock if he wasn't in WWE. Didn't you shit on TNA cuz of their old guys? Why do you like Regal? He's in his mid-fourties.

In fact, you can toss in countless names in WWE such as Edge, Christian, Rey Mysterio, Alberto Del Rio, and so on and so on who could be argued to be better then TNA when it comes to wrestling. Why? Because through their wrestling these people not only get reactions, they draw from the crowd, and that's something TNA very much lacks. Their "stars" may have great matches in the technical sense, but if there's nothing more to the matches and those matches aren't making stars that are OVER or drawing anything, then who gives a shit? That's the difference between WWE and TNA.

I wasn't discussing drawing power, I was discussing mic skills and wrestling ability. None of the guys I mentioned draw, except for Angle. But I don't give rat's ass about how much they draw, that doesn't matter to me, I'm not their employer. What matters is what they do when they're on TV. Hogan drew more than anyone and he's just an entrance to me and complete shit in the ring.

Edge is medicore in the ring, Christian is above average, Mysterio is awesome when given the chance, he's definitely better than 99% of the people I mentioned (bar Angle and AJ), and Del Rio? Child, sit down! If you would've said Dolph Ziggler I'd agree but Del Rio?

IMO the best wrestler WWE has at this very moment is Randy Orton. He's in his own league, he's impressive, he's fun to watch and all of that WHILST he's being limited by the WWE standards. It's sad that we'll never see him live up to his true and complete potential. Guys like him and Cena became superstars for the wrong generation and direction of the WWE.
 
You've never seen Alex Shelley and Chris Sabin in singles bouts, have ya? Look up Alex Shelley VERSUS Chris Sabin and see for yourself that not only are they better moves wise, they ALSO know psychology. They've proven it a lot of times both in singles bouts and tag team matches. CM Punk's sissy kicks and a knee doesn't REALLY count as athleticism to me. He's got psychology in the ring, though.

Oh, I've seen Alex Shelley and Chris Sabin lots of times in singles bouts. I wached Alex Shelley in Ring of Honor and in TNA, and I watched TNA back when Chris Sabin was the Future of the X Division. They still aren't on the level that Punk is. From Punk's time in Ring of Honor to his time in WWE, he surpasses those two on every level. CM Punk's a former World Heavyweight champion in both Ring of Honor and WWE, Shelley and Sabin never even made it as singles stars in TNA.


You telling me that AJ Styles, Doug Williams and Desmond Wolfe can't tell a better story in the ring than Punk just shows me that debating something with you is completely pointless. You are, after all, a complete TNA basher. But who am I to judge, I'm a mark. Let's continue, though.

I'm not a TNA basher, I'm just honest and realistic in my views.


Bryan is SO not par with Styles. Maybe Shelley, deffinitely Wolfe.

Danielson is pure shit on the mic stop kidding yourself. Show me one good Daniel Bryan promopromo and I'll pull my nuts out. I don't buy the guy at all.

You claiming Danielson is "pure shit" on the mic is such an exaggeration that I can no longer take you seriously, especially your judgment of Bryan Danielson.




Should-a, Would-a, Could-a. Regal is awesome, don't get me wrong, I hate WWE for not giving him what he deserved, he's one of THOSE guys, but let's be realistic. He's a full package ... eh debatable, but he's got above avreage talent at everything he has to do as a performer. The guys are mentioned are better than him, period. Can you remember the last memorable William Regal match? I can't. I can remember the last memorable AJ match. Yesterday. I can remember the last awesome Angle and Wolfe match. I can't remember shit from Regal. Not in the last decade anyhow. I recall him drinking piss tea. That's the highlight of his career right there.

Clearly you don't watch any WWE programming so your view on Regal lacks credibility entirely. Regal JUST had a great match with Bryan Danielson. I guess you missed that. Clearly you missed when he won King of the Ring, too, because during that time he showed both his in ring ability and his mic ability.



I wonder if you'd be jumping up and down his cock if he wasn't in WWE. Didn't you shit on TNA cuz of their old guys? Why do you like Regal? He's in his mid-fourties.

I'm not a WWE mark, sorry. I watch WWE as much as I do TNA, and I'm not a huge fan of either of their products right now. I don't give two shits about what Regal's age is. I never once said WWE should push Regal right now or make him their World champion. That's not even what this was about. His age doesn't mean a thing when it comes down to his wrestling ability, and his "package" being leaps and bounds better then 80% of TNA's roster. That's like claiming Ric Flair isn't a better wrestler then 90% of TNA's roster because he's in his 60's. The guys still one of the best wrestlers of all time.


I wasn't discussing drawing power, I was discussing mic skills and wrestling ability. None of the guys I mentioned draw, except for Angle. But I don't give rat's ass about how much they draw, that doesn't matter to me, I'm not their employer. What matters is what they do when they're on TV. Hogan drew more than anyone and he's just an entrance to me and complete shit in the ring.


Exactly. None of the guys you mentioned draw, except for Angle. The fact is, it's what a wrestler does in the ring that makes the fans WANT to see them and WANT to pay money to see them. If a wrestler doesn't draw the fans in to want to watch him wrestle then who gives a shit about whether he can do lots of cool moves. Wrestling ability, as I said before, is about much more then MOVES. Clearly you don't grasp that and therefore your opinions about said wrestlers lack credibility.

It's exactly what Hogan DID in the ring that made him a good wrestler and made the fans want to watch him. He may not have had fifty different moves, and he may not have been the most technically sound in the world, but in ring wrestling is about MORE then that.


Edge is medicore in the ring, Christian is above average, Mysterio is awesome when given the chance, he's definitely better than 99% of the people I mentioned (bar Angle and AJ), and Del Rio? Child, sit down! If you would've said Dolph Ziggler I'd agree but Del Rio?

This whole thing proves you know absolutely nothing about who is a good wrestler and who isn't. Del Rio got over in a matter of weeks, where half of TNA's roster has never gotten over. Edge is a nine time (?) World champion, whose had countless memorable and historic matches throughout his career. Nice try.


IMO the best wrestler WWE has at this very moment is Randy Orton. He's in his own league, he's impressive, he's fun to watch and all of that WHILST he's being limited by the WWE standards. It's sad that we'll never see him live up to his true and complete potential. Guys like him and Cena became superstars for the wrong generation and direction of the WWE.

Who are you to say WWE is doing it wrong and TNA isn't? After all, guys in WWE actually draw where as guys in TNA don't. Clearly WWE's doing something right in their formula. Maybe if TNA wrestlers focused more on developing their in ring characters, and connecting with the crowd, among many other things they'd be better off.

And that brings things back to the thread's topic. Better wrestling? It's debatable whether TNA even has the better wrestling. But, even if they do, so what? It's not getting them anywhere. Maybe people should be questioning why that is.
 

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