The Vote

[Brilliant Human Being]

My history coursework. Heres the question:

Explain why women failed to get the vote between 1900 and 1914.

This isn't a thread desparately asking for help, but this got me thinking.
How do you think society as a whole would be different if women did not have the right to vote?

It would be stupid to suggest that society wouldn't be different, as it quite plainly would be. But how bad would it get? Would we become like countries such as Afghanistan where women's rights are non-existant? For anyone who doesn't know what I'm talking about, the Afghani Government recently passed a law permitting men to deny their wives food and shelter if they refuse their sexual demands.
Would it be as bad as that if women did not have the vote here and in America for example?

I would like to think it wouldn't, that we wouldn't turn into a barbaric race where women are completely devalued.

Thoughts?

 

[HBK-aholic]

I had the same/similar coursework question a few years ago, it was a very interesting topic to study. I believe mine was either the above one, or explain how World War 1 helped women get the vote - one was just homework, but both have a lot of the same information needed.

Women would have the vote by now anyway - the war simply sped that up. It was a way for women to prove they could do something as well as men and they did. It's one of the few positives we got out of WW1. I can't imagine our society being like that now. Afghanistan is absolutely atrocious and how any woman can live there is beyond me. It's amazing that sexism is so prevalent when you look at our society, which isn't perfect, but a lot better than that. Women play a big part in the role of our society, often holding down jobs while still being responsible for a big part of childcare and housework. While I doubt things would have gotten as bad as Afghanistan, society wouldn't be as good without the female workforce.

 

[Brilliant Human Being]

I had the same/similar coursework question a few years ago, it was a very interesting topic to study. I believe mine was either the above one, or explain how World War 1 helped women get the vote - one was just homework, but both have a lot of the same information needed.

Women would have the vote by now anyway - the war simply sped that up. It was a way for women to prove they could do something as well as men and they did. It's one of the few positives we got out of WW1. I can't imagine our society being like that now. Afghanistan is absolutely atrocious and how any woman can live there is beyond me. It's amazing that sexism is so prevalent when you look at our society, which isn't perfect, but a lot better than that. Women play a big part in the role of our society, often holding down jobs while still being responsible for a big part of childcare and housework. While I doubt things would have gotten as bad as Afghanistan, society wouldn't be as good without the female workforce.

I've got to to both. Go me! Both have to be about 1000 words long.

Afghanistan is awful, and I'm sure there are other countries like it. I agree with everything you said, but nowadays, would women have the same job oppurtunities if they didn't have the vote?

 

[HBK-aholic]

Ouch. How many pieces of Coursework do you have overall? I remember having the Vietnamese war as well.

They in no way would have the right to the same jobs if they didn't have the vote. If women can be trained as doctors or lawyers, why would they not be allowed the vote over a lazy man who spends all day on the sofa eating? Having the vote is such an important right in a society that calls itself democratic, can you seriously imagine a man taking advice about his health from a woman but not allowing her to have a say on who runs the country?

 

[Brilliant Human Being]

Ouch. How many pieces of Coursework do you have overall? I remember having the Vietnamese war as well.

They in no way would have the right to the same jobs if they didn't have the vote. If women can be trained as doctors or lawyers, why would they not be allowed the vote over a lazy man who spends all day on the sofa eating? Having the vote is such an important right in a society that calls itself democratic, can you seriously imagine a man taking advice about his health from a woman but not allowing her to have a say on who runs the country?

Yeah, got to do one on that as well. It's fun doing GCSE.

Again, I agree. I just thought it was interesting to get other peoples viewpoints on this, as we literally spent an hour and a half debating this. Come to think of it, I can't think of any situation in the civilised world where such a thing like you described would happen if women didn't have the vote. Anyone else got any ideas about this?

 

[Dave]

My history coursework. Heres the question:

Explain why women failed to get the vote between 1900 and 1914.

This isn't a thread desparately asking for help, but this got me thinking.
How do you think society as a whole would be different if women did not have the right to vote?

It would be stupid to suggest that society wouldn't be different, as it quite plainly would be. But how bad would it get? Would we become like countries such as Afghanistan where women's rights are non-existant? For anyone who doesn't know what I'm talking about, the Afghani Government recently passed a law permitting men to deny their wives food and shelter if they refuse their sexual demands.
Would it be as bad as that if women did not have the vote here and in America for example?

I would like to think it wouldn't, that we wouldn't turn into a barbaric race where women are completely devalued.

Thoughts?

I got an A in history and this was one of the course-work studies. So please, let me take a crack at this if you will.

I believe the question that you asking is about how far we would have went down the line of women's rights, if they had not been given the vote following World War One. Well, this could go either way and I have to believe in my gut that we would be in a similar position as we are now. Before the war, women were well on their way to getting the vote anyway. A number of bills had been passed starting sometime in the late 1800's until 1914 and Women's rights were improving all of the time. Women did a fine job in the war and as Becca said, it simply sped it up. However, it was not only the war that gave women the vote. This is a tremendous subject to look at and I could go on for a while.

Naturally, people are always going to say that the Great War was the reason that women got the vote but to be quite honest, it wasn't. There was numerous reasons that women got the vote. The first of which being the Suffragette movement, headed by Emmeline Pankhurst. These women were extremely progressive people and lobbied for the vote in many different ways. Of course, these means were not always entirely positive. The starved themselves and hindered police progress in places. They caused damage to public property and really were quite destructive people in the progression up to the war. They sort of helped and hindered the the progress of the women's vote. Of course, they were all fucking crazy and I am not joking. They threw themselves in front of horses, killing themselves and generally pissing people off. Rumour has it that the way they wre heard in private meeting chamber meetings is by having, well... Private meeting chamber meetings .Anyway, they were still a big reason that they were granted the vote.

Another reason is that women's rights were evolving naturally anyway. As I have said, they were getting the vote anyway. It may have taken a little longer but they would have eventually gotten equal rights.

The Great War is definitely a big reason that they were given the vote but as I say, it was not the only reason and it would be ignorant to assume it is.

 

[Brilliant Human Being]

I got an A in history and this was one of the course-work studies. So please, let me take a crack at this if you will.

I believe the question that you asking is about how far we would have went down the line of women's rights, if they had not been given the vote following World War One. Well, this could go either way and I have to believe in my gut that we would be in a similar position as we are now. Before the war, women were well on their way to getting the vote anyway. A number of bills had been passed starting sometime in the late 1800's until 1914 and Women's rights were improving all of the time. Women did a fine job in the war and as Becca said, it simply sped it up. However, it was not only the war that gave women the vote. This is a tremendous subject to look at and I could go on for a while.

Naturally, people are always going to say that the Great War was the reason that women got the vote but to be quite honest, it wasn't. There was numerous reasons that women got the vote. The first of which being the Suffragette movement, headed by Emmeline Pankhurst. These women were extremely progressive people and lobbied for the vote in many different ways. Of course, these means were not always entirely positive. The starved themselves and hindered police progress in places. They caused damage to public property and really were quite destructive people in the progression up to the war. They sort of helped and hindered the the progress of the women's vote. Of course, they were all fucking crazy and I am not joking. They threw themselves in front of horses, killing themselves and generally pissing people off. Rumour has it that the way they wre heard in private meeting chamber meetings is by having, well... Private meeting chamber meetings .Anyway, they were still a big reason that they were granted the vote.

Another reason is that women's rights were evolving naturally anyway. As I have said, they were getting the vote anyway. It may have taken a little longer but they would have eventually gotten equal rights.

The Great War is definitely a big reason that they were given the vote but as I say, it was not the only reason and it would be ignorant to assume it is.

When I finally finish the thing, I'll post it somewhere for you to dissect.

To be honest, I believe that if it wasnt for the Suffragettes undermining all the good, honest work the Suffragists were doing, women would have got the vote sooner than when they did. The militant, and in some cases extremist action the Suffragteetes used only furthered what the opinion was amongst people of Britain: that at the time, women were immature and unfit to make important decisions.

When you say that women's rights were evolving naturally, this reminds me of a quote used by the leader of the Suffragists, Millicent Fawcett:

'Our movement is like a glacier; slow-moving but unstoppable.'

That has stayed with me since I read it, and it gives me the impression that Fawcett believed it was a matter of when, not if, women would get the vote.

Just what I think. Gone off topic here slightly.

 

[Dave]

I also forgot to mention the fact that we would have never have descended into places like Saudi Arabia and things like that. One of the reasons I think this is because of the people here. We, as Britain's, are very respectful people. Back in the 1800's of course we believed that men were superior to women and of course we belived that women were just for washing up etc. However, I would ask you to name an evolved country at that time who didn't. When we finally got to thinking about it for ourselves, we realised that they had more uses than cleaning obviously. The people of Britain have always been willing to reform and change with the times. This was demonstrated by the Industrial Revolution and giving women the vote. People native to places like Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan have no such respect for people and do not wish to, or will ever change the way they think.

Another reason that we would never have gotten that far is the political system that has always been evident in Great Britain. We have always been democratic and we have always been a Constitutional Monarchy and the Government would have never allowed it to get that far, I would like to believe. You couple that with the ever-changing people and I have to believe that it would have never got that far.

 

[Goo Punch]

Voting in the US doesn't matter and that's been proven so if women still couldn't vote, nothing would change. The US government is one of the most corrupt in the world, the facade of democracy has no impact whatsoever on the placement of government officials. So if women didn't get the vote, we would have still had Bush and black Kennedy for 8 years.

 

[Razor]

My history coursework. Heres the question:

Explain why women failed to get the vote between 1900 and 1914.

This isn't a thread desparately asking for help, but this got me thinking.
How do you think society as a whole would be different if women did not have the right to vote?

It would be stupid to suggest that society wouldn't be different, as it quite plainly would be. But how bad would it get? Would we become like countries such as Afghanistan where women's rights are non-existant? For anyone who doesn't know what I'm talking about, the Afghani Government recently passed a law permitting men to deny their wives food and shelter if they refuse their sexual demands.
Would it be as bad as that if women did not have the vote here and in America for example?

I would like to think it wouldn't, that we wouldn't turn into a barbaric race where women are completely devalued.

Thoughts?

The right to vote is not directly linked to other social issues. I guarantee you that blacks weren't completely loved after they got a full count in the Senate, or after the Jim Crow Laws were repelled to insure their vote. Women weren't completely loved after the 1920's in which they got that whole Women's Suffrage passed, and they still aren't completely respected as equal to men in some places.

What I'm trying to say is, basic human rights aren't linked to the right to vote. Some men would have still gotten together in Congress and decided that women have the right to walk around in public without a male escort, that men and women can have open conversations in public. The idea that influences these rules is one of a social norm, not one of voting practice. The countries that adversely regulate their women nowadays wouldn't be any different if the women could vote tomorrow. They would still be considered a lesser person.

Voting in the US doesn't matter and that's been proven so if women still couldn't vote, nothing would change. The US government is one of the most corrupt in the world, the facade of democracy has no impact whatsoever on the placement of government officials. So if women didn't get the vote, we would have still had Bush and black Kennedy for 8 years.

Our government? The most corrupt? Did you forget the entirety of the African continent? Other than Rwanda and a select others, they're basically killing their own people. How about Central America, where governments are outright working with the drug lords? Our government is corrupt, sure. But not the most corrupt. No way.


If the government were so corrupt, and so adamant on a select person gaining power, wouldn't they keep the same type of government in place? Switching from a Right-Winger like Bush to the "black Kennedy" as you so insultingly typed, wouldn't make much sense. You'd think the government would keep the same philosophy in office, and base it off of the fact that "...uhhh...a majority of Americans still hate the world, medical research, Welfare, and education. Seriously." Flip flopping like this doesn't make any sense.

 

[Goo Punch]

If the government were so corrupt, and so adamant on a select person gaining power, wouldn't they keep the same type of government in place? Switching from a Right-Winger like Bush to the "black Kennedy" as you so insultingly typed, wouldn't make much sense. You'd think the government would keep the same philosophy in office, and base it off of the fact that "...uhhh...a majority of Americans still hate the world, medical research, Welfare, and education. Seriously." Flip flopping like this doesn't make any sense.

Yeah, the government totally wouldn't want to change things up after the last president got abysmal approval ratings and was probably the most hated since Nixon. They totally had no idea that the countries against us would take a liking to a "breath of fresh air". No, of course not. And of course Black Kennedy is going to make soo many changes, he's already started, he raised taxes! Yeah, we're a total democracy.

 

[Razor]

Yeah, the government totally wouldn't want to change things up after the last president got abysmal approval ratings and was probably the most hated since Nixon.

If they didn't care what we thought, they wouldn't switch it up. I'm supposing the "they don't care what we think" by the "our vote doesn't matter" argument you posed.

They totally had no idea that the countries against us would take a liking to a "breath of fresh air". No, of course not.

It doesn't seem so. Russia is getting even more pissy than usual, Israel hasn't changed its stance on anything. The only countries that are playing nice now are the EU nations, and they were playing along anyway.

And of course Black Kennedy

Seriously. Find an insult that is actually creative. This is just plain bad. And besides, you're insulting a man who died not what, 2 months ago? You're insulting a man who single-handedly fought for legislation that pays for treatment of AIDS victims. You're insulting the man who many deem to be the most important politician in the last 50 years.

Then you're throwing the ole derogatory "black" on it to deride Obama about his skin color. Nice job, you're showing your ignorance in more than one section! If it's not saying that Creed is worth half a shit in the Music Section, it's making up lame insults in the Cigar Lounge. You must be pretty busy, huh?

is going to make soo many changes, he's already started, he raised taxes!

What taxes? I haven't seen a tax hike.

Yeah, we're a total democracy.

Well, technically we're a Democratic Republic. We vote for regional changes to our laws, but we vote for Representatives to be sent to the Senate for Federal Laws. We expect them to vote in line with our beliefs when Federal Laws are debated.

At any rate, I fail to see how Obama being elected proves that our votes don't count.

 

[Goo Punch]

If they didn't care what we thought, they wouldn't switch it up. I'm supposing the "they don't care what we think" by the "our vote doesn't matter" argument you posed.

I guess you "missed" the part where I mentioned the country's facade of democracy. *sigh*

The only countries that are playing nice now are the EU nations, and they were playing along anyway.

So do you just make stuff up and hope people believe it? That's not really an effective form of argument. Why don't you "wiki" Germany. *sigh*

Seriously. Find an insult that is actually creative. This is just plain bad. And besides, you're insulting a man who died not what, 2 months ago? You're insulting a man who single-handedly fought for legislation that pays for treatment of AIDS victims. You're insulting the man who many deem to be the most important politician in the last 50 years.

LOLZ I love how you write a paragraph on how bad my "insult" is and you don't even get it.

Then you're throwing the ole derogatory "black" on it to deride Obama about his skin color. Nice job, you're showing your ignorance in more than one section! If it's not saying that Creed is worth half a shit in the Music Section, it's making up lame insults in the Cigar Lounge. You must be pretty busy, huh?

So I say the word "black" and you infer that as "derogatory"? That's...interesting. But I'm not gonna get into that, I really couldn't care less about your underlying racism...I'm more concerned with your horrid taste in "music" and inability to comprehend anything not stated in "black and white"...no pun intended...well, ok it was kind of intended but seriously, I can't believe you take "black" as an insult lol. That's messed up.

What taxes? I haven't seen a tax hike.

Do you buy alcohol?

*crosses fingers that you don't because you're 12*

At any rate, I fail to see how Obama being elected proves that our votes don't count.

I never said your vote doesn't count. I said voting doesn't matter. If anybody (yes, even you) didn't know Obama was going to win the election, you're mentally challenged. Anyone who thinks the HUGE number of minorities (which again, aren't a bad thing lol) registering to vote in the last election was a "coincidence" is...special. Anyone who doesn't realize WHY Obama's Caucasian heritage is never mentioned is kidding themselves. And do I really have to explain how Bush got into office? *sigh* I'm guessing I do but I can't be bothered right now, I'll get to that in our next session.