The Superior's War on Stupidity: America

[Xemmy]

When we we're kids growing up in public schools, what was the first thing we learned? If it wasn't the very first thing we learned, it was a close second or third. The Pledge of Allegiance. It was something that we all learned and memorized. Hell, I even learned it in Spanish. Many of us have been drilled to love this country. Even as I'm typing it feels weird. Part of me says, "How dare you! How dare you criticize this country! You have it better than 90% of people on the planet." And I'm sure some of you might think I'm beating a dead horse, or that I'm just some jackoff who's yapping about the problems without doing anything about them, and you're probably right. Hell, I'm probably a part of the problem. I know there are alot of problems in all countries that need fixing.

Rant begins here:

My point is that too many people in this country think that this is "The Land of the Free, and Home of the Brave". It isn't. Not in this point in history. This is a country full of ignorant cowardly people who don't fight for their civil liberties. We go through a strip-search machine just to travel on a plane. Willingly. We're allowing our 5th amendment right to be pissed on, and the outrage over it has been minimal at best. And no one really questions it, or bothers to really think about it- because thinking is hard. Instead they have news media do it for them. Whether it's Glenn Beck or Keith Olbermann, everone listens to a news source that draws there own conclusion to information and then spits it out, instead of giving information and allowing people to process it. Being stupid in this country is no longer considered to be a detriment. It's honored, even rewarded. Look at reality tv stars.

I am ashamed to live in America, and I don't mean to denegrate the people that work hard, and are actually trying to make a difference, or who ARE making a difference, but for every person that falls under that category a hundred others fall under another.

Another example is wikileaks. I'm not trying to drag down what they do, it is important, but people make Julian Assange into this heroic figure that everyone is hyperfocused on. "Oh no, he's in jail awaiting bond!"

I'm not downing Julian, I'm glad he does this.

Meanwhile

Bradley Manning- has been locked up in solitary confinement for the last 8 months or so. He leaked information. This information wasn't a danger to national security. He leaked a bunch of discusting shit that was going on behind closed doors. And alot of average people that aren't informed want him linched. They want this guy dead for being a "traitor". How many of you have even heard him?

Wikileaks is great, but it's only one piece of the puzzle. You need two things to fix alot of the problems in this country.
You need an informed public that knows how to process information, and you need a provider of that information. 1 of them is missing. I'll let you guess.
Not to mention the corporate corruptions in Health Care, and the Mortgage crisis. Two things that aren't mutally exlusive might I add.

All this has really made me ashamed of this country, the people living in it, and I'm ashamed of being an America. And I wish I wasn't.
You can refute this, you can question little bits, or you can agree with me. I don't care that much. I just wanted to say it.

 

[Ultra Awesome]

I agree for the most part, but you shouldn't wish to not be an American because, well, America is one of the best nations there are when it comes to freedom. Sure, our freedom has been limited and America has have made many foolish decisions as well as manipulated many into thinking what they are doing is right when it is infact wrong. but above all, in the very least, we are much better off than other countries. Though with that said, our freedom really isn't what it once was or what we'd like it to be.

I once made a post about the stupidity in America and how that contributes to the limitations that have been placed on our nation. Here, let me find the post:

Freedom? That term has long since lost its original meaning in our country. By definition, freedom is when you are freed from any restriction that was put on you. It is when you are allowed to basically just do whatever you want, and have no consequences. But in today’s world, the many controversial issues that we face in our lives such as war, health care, taxes, gun control, privacy--all these and many more have all, little by little, been diminishing the freedom that once existed, or rather, invisioned by our forefathers.

Ideally, being free means to have a voice--a voice that protects our rights--the rights of our friends, our family, and the world we live in--all as equal members of a society we have created, fought for, preserved, and are proud to hand over to the next generation.

However, such ideology is no longer the case. But where does the problem all stem from? My best guess is from the people themselves. The average American is too stupid to make decisions for themselves. They rely on others to make them for them. And if, say for example, someone told them that what’s happening now is right, then chances are, they will go with the belief that said concept is indeed right.

One of the most common issues that we face today is terrorism. Though, it should be fairly noted that the problem isn’t exactly terrorism itself, but rather the fear of terrorism. Such as it was in the Bush Administration, the media hype and manipulation that came from it only made people fear terrorism even more than how it really should have been--little to nothing at all. The chances of dying as a result of a terrorist attack are actually lower than that of falling off a ladder; yet, that doesn’t stop the fearful idiots in America mindlessly eat up what these politicians tell them.

Fear on its own clouds the mind. It causes people to make irrational choices as well as let their emotions get in the way. When these two occur, these people can easily be manipulated by any form of propaganda any person (politician) may see fit. Thus, you have the over-exahjurated fear in terrorism.

Simply put: politicians are corrupt; Americans are idiots. Politicians will sit there and talk and talk ‘til they can’t talk anymore, but if the people themselves don’t decide to open their eyes and their ears and realize what the fuck is going on and how it is wrong (or right), then these politicians will only continue to deprive us of our so-called freedom.

Of course, not all Americans are idiots. There are few that see the errors in the ways of the government. But the problem is, are they willing to voice their opinion? If there is any type of freedom that America still truly has, it’s the freedom of speech. And if that doesn’t get taken full advantage of by the people, things in our nation will only get worse.

This pretty much sums up my ideers about freedom in our nation. I know it's nothing new; but still, I feel it's worth mentioning in this thread.

 

[Uncle Chester]

This doesn't have anything to do with the AmazingAthiests mirror of that other guy?

But, from an outsiders perspective it certainly feels Americans claims are somewhat unfounded and wrong. I mean the best country would, I would imagine, be a country which has the best lifestyle for it's citizens and America sure as fuck don't dun that.

 

[Xemmy]

This doesn't have anything to do with the AmazingAthiests mirror of that other guy?

But, from an outsiders perspective it certainly feels Americans claims are somewhat unfounded and wrong. I mean the best country would, I would imagine, be a country which has the best lifestyle for it's citizens and America sure as fuck don't dun that.

Yes, the rant is pretty much based entirely off that Paul's Ego video.
Which can be viewed here if anyone cares about my plagiarism :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01d2Nft6Chw
That given, I'm not sure what you're trying to say when you said "From an outsider's perspective?"

This isn't just about the claim of the American dream being false though, this is more along the lines of the stupidity of the country. People don't look up information to make their own informed opinion, because it's just too easy to find info with a spin on it. America COULD be all the things it claims to be, but it isn't.

Now I guess the obvious question would be, am I guilty of it too, given that I took this from something I watched?
I'd like to rationalize it, but once again, like I said- I'm probably part of the problem.

 

[Mustang Sally]

.... this is more along the lines of the stupidity of the country. People don't look up information to make their own informed opinion, because it's just too easy to find info with a spin on it.

As I see it, what you're talking about isn't always stupidity, but it's something worse: willful ignorance. If a person just doesn't have the intelligence, you can't get too mad at him as long as he's doing the best he can. But it seems to me you're talking about people who choose not to use their own brains; they want to take the lead from other people in everything they do, think, eat and wear.

In "The Fountainhead," the description of one of the characters read: "Peter Keating didn't want to be a great architect. He just wanted people to think of him as a great architect." Do you see the difference? Keating wasn't interest in his own opinion of himself; instead, he cared only what others thought of him. That's willful ignorance, because Keating never discovers anything for himself; he only goes by the opinions of others.

To me, this is the way many people live their lives. They'll accept anything they're told, as long as it comes from someone else.....presumably, someone they respect; but who knows?

Take the multi-billion dollar fashion industry: What is "fashion" except someone else's idea of what you should be wearing? Do you want to live your life that way? Apparently, many in this country live their lives entirely that way.



The other part of this thread deals with freedom. My feeling is that we in America don't appreciate our personal liberties until they're taken away from us. We don't really know how "free" citizens of other countries are unless we've lived there. but I suspect our personal freedoms are far in excess of those enjoyed in other countries.

 

[LigerBomb]

Dishonesty, greed, laziness, ignorance and corruption aren't American failings —they are inherent human failings. Be ashamed then to be Human, rather than simply American. And when you're done sulking in the corner, decrying the absolute horrors of being member to one of, if not the most privileged, affluent and democratic societies in all of human history, go out and do something about it.

As for the airport thing, yea, it's a pain in the ass but it sure as hell beats the alternative (what with all the jaggedly shorn limbs and plane wreckage flying haphazardly about the air).

 

[Xemmy]

Dishonesty, greed, laziness, ignorance and corruption aren't American failings —they are inherent human failings. Be ashamed then to be Human, rather than simply American. And when you're done sulking in the corner, decrying the absolute horrors of being member to one of, if not the most privileged, affluent and democratic societies in all of human history, go out and do something about it.

As for the airport thing, yea, it's a pain in the ass but it sure as hell beats the alternative (what with all the jaggedly shorn limbs and plane wreckage flying haphazardly about the air).

Ofcourse they're human failings, but there's an over abundance of it here. We're pretty above average. And merely blaming human genetics doesn't do anything. Otherwise we just except it. "Well it's not their fault! They're only human!" I pointed out that this was just a fucking rant in the opening- did you not read it? And incase you haven't noticed- We WERE one of the most privileged, affluent, and democratic societies in all of human history. Now we have something closer to fascism than democracy. I pointed out that we do have it better than some 90% of the world. But they're still 9% ahead of us. And we could be number one- if it wasn't the one big thing holding us back. Our below average willing stupidity in this country. Virtually everyone has access to information now, and a majority don't really bother using it. And it's not because of laziness. It's because stupidity is a fucking virtue in this country. It's rewarded. Ever watch MTV or VH1? People are paid to be stupid jackasses.

And another thing- What exactly do you want me to do that I'm not already doing? I've signed petitions, I've gone to certain protests. What else can 18 year old trying to get on his feet actually do to solve the country's problems? Spreading the word, was a good idea. Or so I was told. Please inform me of a better way! If it's something I can actually do to magically erease these problems, then I'll do it in heartbeat.

As for the "airport bit", you really should show a little more outrage than that. It's not just a pain in the ass, it's a violation of the 5th amendment. It's not a nessesary precaution, and it won't keep people from hijacking either. They'll find a new way to do it. Everytime security is up, they always find a new way to do it. If someone has the resources and the wit. And then when it happens again, we'll try to up security again. And it'll happen again, and again, and again.

 

[RockFan89]

Ofcourse they're human failings, but there's an over abundance of it here. We're pretty above average.

Coming from the child of immigrants from India and who has heard many stories about the problems in that country, I can confidently say that America has less dishonesty, greed, laziness, ignorant, and corrupt people (and India is one of the better countries in the world today).

India is filled with corrupt politicians and people trying to make a buck instead of bettering their country. 200 million people in that country live on the streets. If you have ever been to that country it is impossible to miss the slums that seem to go on forever.

Corruption is rampant everywhere and if you were to compare the U.S. to the rest of the world, we do relatively well. This doesn't mean we should be happy with it, but we need to keep perspective.

We WERE one of the most privileged, affluent, and democratic societies in all of human history. Now we have something closer to fascism than democracy.

Unless you have some evidence I am not aware of, we are not closer to fascism than democracy and any such argument is ridiculous.

I pointed out that we do have it better than some 90% of the world. But they're still 9% ahead of us. And we could be number one- if it wasn't the one big thing holding us back. Our below average willing stupidity in this country. Virtually everyone has access to information now, and a majority don't really bother using it.

I don't know what you base those numbers off of, but lets assume you are right. So What? Who cares if 9% of the world is better off then us? I think this country gets to overly patriotic sometimes with this issue. If we are not number, we shouldn't get upset. Our founders never said that the United States must be number 1 in everything we do. Yes, it is true that our values of freedom and capitalism have made us number 1, but they have also helped out other countries become competitive with us.

Yes there are stupid people out there, but there are still plenty of intelligent ones as well. In the age of reality TV many stupid people are getting rewarded, but far more intelligent people who become doctors, lawyers, professors, business owners, etc. get rewarded as well for their contributions to society.

As for the "airport bit", you really should show a little more outrage than that. It's not just a pain in the ass, it's a violation of the 5th amendment.

Because you don't have a right to use airplanes and since no one is forcing you to, this is not a violation of the 5th amendment. (It's like how you have to have insurance to drive a car, driving is not a right).

It's not a nessesary precaution, and it won't keep people from hijacking either. They'll find a new way to do it. Everytime security is up, they always find a new way to do it. If someone has the resources and the wit. And then when it happens again, we'll try to up security again. And it'll happen again, and again, and again.

Of course it will keep people from hijacking. Sure not every hijacker will be prevented, but more will be deterred and/or prevented. I hate it when people make the argument that the terrorists will just find a way around it. By that logic we shouldn't try to stop any crime because someone will find a way around the rules. It just doesn't make sense. Why have security at all then?

 

[Pole Smoker]

I live in Scotland and can say that you guys probably have it better and worse.

Other countries have far more corruptions than America. Everywhere is corrupt though. No where is perfect and like has been said is a human failing. Greed and power can obsess people.

Most people look at another country that are better off than theirs. lots of people wish they were from a different country. I have wished I was American. I do love going to America for weather and crazy places like New York and would maybe move if i had the chance but one thing that would stop me is the ignorance .I mean no offense here but the ignorance in America is very above average. I've never saw anything like it. People have asked me if we have electricity in England even though I'm from Scotland. Just no one knows that Scotland is not in England lol. Most people i've met in America barely know 5 countries.

I have met some great people in America but the ignorance far outweighs it. So many Americans think they are the only country that has it well. They think because I'm from Scotland I live in moutains and wear a kilt even though we have most things they have. The way they think England is posh etc is funny because so many believe stereotypes are true.

But America is not as bad as you make out. Even though ignorance from people and TV you just have to rise above it. Everywhere has similar things and just be glad your allowed free speech.

 

[LigerBomb]

In addition to Rockfan89 chiming in:

Of course they're human failings, but there's an over abundance of it here.[Over abundance? Really? What's the right amount I wonder? And how did you come to measure it? -just remember to convert to metric for our EU brethren.] We're pretty above average. And merely blaming human genetics doesn't do anything. Otherwise we just except it. "Well it's not their fault! They're only human!" [1. It's 'accept' not 'except' 2. You missed my point (don't be myopic in your evaluation) 3. High standards will lead to disappointment practically every time (that last bit was tinged with a hint of sarcasm)]I pointed out that this was just a fucking rant in the opening- did you not read it? [Read it. Throwing a rant back your way. What's "good for the goose…" etc., etc., etc.]And in case you haven't noticed- We WERE one of the most privileged, affluent, and democratic societies in all of human history. Now we have something closer to fascism than democracy. [Surely you must be joking. One wonders what you consider fascism and just how off the mark you truly are.]I pointed out that we do have it better than some 90% of the world. But they're still 9% ahead of us. [Who is this "they" you speak of? How do you know how much better "they" have it? (Hyperbole, cute as it is, won't clarify a point)]And we could be number one- if it wasn't the one big thing holding us back. Our below average willing stupidity in this country. [Again, if we're below it, what then is "average stupidity"?] Virtually everyone has access to information now, and a majority don't really bother using it. And it's not because of laziness. It's because stupidity is a fucking virtue in this country. It's rewarded. Ever watch MTV or VH1? [Not since Behind the Music and 120min. got canceled]People are paid to be stupid jackasses.

And another thing- What exactly do you want me to do that I'm not already doing? I've signed petitions, I've gone to certain protests. What else can 18 year old trying to get on his feet actually do to solve the country's problems? Spreading the word, was a good idea. Or so I was told. [You spread this dour "word" of yours, like a virulent strain of semi-tourettic verbal diarrhea. It's opinionated claptrap that offers nothing in the way of aid/improvement. Hence I took offense.] Please inform me of a better way! If it's something I can actually do to magically erease these problems, then I'll do it in heartbeat.[Magic? Don't be silly. Let see, off the top of my head: Vote (and not just every 4 years), perform informed public speaking, organize charity, donate, campaign for elected officials you agree with, volunteer w/ after school programs to remove all that pesky ignorance you hate so much (same with the homeless and other less fortunate groups), consider becoming part of your community government and later on in life stand for office, etc.]

As for the "airport bit", you really should show a little more outrage than that. [No, I shouldn't. I save my outrage for the worthwhile.]It's not just a pain in the ass, it's a violation of the 5th amendment.[No, it's not.]It's not a nessesary precaution, and it won't keep people from hijacking either. [What's not necessary about attempting to prevent people with explosives from boarding airplanes?]They'll find a new way to do it. Everytime security is up, they always find a new way to do it. If someone has the resources and the wit. And then when it happens again, we'll try to up security again. And it'll happen again, and again, and again.[Yea, that's kind of the point; adapting to, and trying to circumvent, new methods of terrorism.]

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I've never been one to believe the various propoganda that's been put out by the government and blind patriots. America isn't some mythical land of milk & honey where everything is wonderful and there are no problems. No country is like that and anyone that believes otherwise is only kidding themselves.

It's true that dreams and opportunities don't always pan out in America. It's true that many people in this country are dissatisfied with our elected officials, rightly so in my view. It's true that there are many people from all walks of life in this country that are corrupt, greedy, selfish, lazy and downright ignorant. However, the simple fact of the matter is that it's the exact same to one degree or another in any other country on Earth. The United States isn't perfect, it's far from perfect, but that doesn't mean that there aren't a LOT of good people here that don't do their best with the hand that's been dealt to them.

RockFan89's comments are a reminder that a LOT of American's take their liberties and freedoms for granted. Sometimes I'll hear someone bitch about how bad things are here and how bad we've got it and I just shake my head sometimes. I've seen video footage on various news networks, on the net, etc. of various locations in India, South America, Mexico, Central America, all over Africa, etc. in which people live in absolute 100% squallor. I'm not just talking about a few thousand here and there, I'm talking millions upon millions upon millions. If the average American goes into The Gap and buys an Abercrombie shirt and pays, sometimes, $25 bucks or so for it, they often do it without thinking twice. In many of those places I just named $25 American dollars could literally be a difference between life and death.

How often do you hear on the news or have you read about in the newspapers about some sort of civil strife happening in the Middle East that has nothing to do with America? How many times have you heard about a Palestinian setting off a bomb somewhere in the middle of a crowded Israeli city? How often do you hear about a suicide bomber in Iraq that's part of the Shite Muslim community blowing himself up in the middle of a mosque frequented by mostly Muslims of the Sunni community? I watched a documentary last week on the History Channel talking about Blood Diamonds and how diamonds in Africa have geen used for funding one civil war after another, something that most American's weren't even aware of really until about the middle of this decade. I watched a movie a few years back called Tears in the Sun starring Bruce Willis as the leader of a team of Navy SEALS leading a pack of refugees through some part of Africa in which a revolution and ethnic cleansing is taken place. I've read and heard about things like that happening a lot in various locations in Africa.

I know it's fashionable to blame everything on politicians and to make fun of people who are patriotic. It's bullshit, complete bullshit. America most definitely has its faults and we certainly do have problems that need to be addressed. We very much have leaders sometimes that fail us, that cater to their own interests rather than ours. At the same time, however, there are many American citizens that are really ignorant as to how good they've got it compared to much of the rest of the world and take the liberties and freedoms that they have for granted. If I were to stand up and call Barack Obama a corrupt lackey of the political machine to his face, I could say it and walk away just like that. If I tried something like that in many countries, I might be taken into a back alley and shot in the back of the head or beaten to within an inch of my life and thrown in prison for who knows how long or maybe some combination of any or all of the above.

 

[Xemmy]

Coming from the child of immigrants from India and who has heard many stories about the problems in that country, I can confidently say that America has less dishonesty, greed, laziness, ignorant, and corrupt people (and India is one of the better countries in the world today).

India is filled with corrupt politicians and people trying to make a buck instead of bettering their country. 200 million people in that country live on the streets. If you have ever been to that country it is impossible to miss the slums that seem to go on forever.

Corruption is rampant everywhere and if you were to compare the U.S. to the rest of the world, we do relatively well. This doesn't mean we should be happy with it, but we need to keep perspective.

It's like no one reads...Do I have to point to the opening of this thread again and again. I KNOW THAT THE U.S HAS IT BETTER THAN 90% of THE PEOPLE ON THE PLANET!

Unless you have some evidence I am not aware of, we are not closer to fascism than democracy and any such argument is ridiculous.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/09/08/news/economy/health_care_lobbying/index.htm

In Health Care alone, politicians recieved 23 million in donations last year and 280 million in lobbying.
If you want me to go through each corporate industry one by one, I'll do it.
That's not official facism, but it sure is the concept.

I don't know what you base those numbers off of, but lets assume you are right. So What? Who cares if 9% of the world is better off then us? I think this country gets to overly patriotic sometimes with this issue. If we are not number, we shouldn't get upset. Our founders never said that the United States must be number 1 in everything we do. Yes, it is true that our values of freedom and capitalism have made us number 1, but they have also helped out other countries become competitive with us.

I'm not basing them off of anything, 90% just good guess number when there are 190 someodd countries, In somethings we have it worse, in some better. We're number 37 in Healthcare, we're way down on the infant mortality rate, 36 in life expectancy. So if we'd like to go by numbers, we might actually be lower than 90%. I'd like my country to be number 1 actually. I don't see why we shouldn't aim for that. My issue is a bit of a mix here. 1- I'm sick of people thinking we're number one. 2- I hate that we have the potential to be number 1, but aren't because of all the issues I've listed, that people don't seem to notice, or if they do they just lay down and take it.

Since you demand citation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy
http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_infant_mortality_rate

Yes there are stupid people out there, but there are still plenty of intelligent ones as well. In the age of reality TV many stupid people are getting rewarded, but far more intelligent people who become doctors, lawyers, professors, business owners, etc. get rewarded as well for their contributions to society.

No. There aren't plenty of intelligent ones. At least not as many as there should be. It's nice that doctors, lawyers, business owners, and professors out number reality T.V stars. You're missing the point. It's rewarded. So fucking what if you can make it AND contribute to society. My issue is that a shit load of people can make it without contributing a damn thing. Too many- and they're idolized. You have any idea how many kids in this country think Bam Margera as a hero?

Because you don't have a right to use airplanes and since no one is forcing you to, this is not a violation of the 5th amendment. (It's like how you have to have insurance to drive a car, driving is not a right).

No one's forcing you. You don't have to get on that plane, you'll just never make it to your family, or workplace. People tend to NEED to travel. If anything society, because of the way it works, forces us to travel. It gets off not being a violation on a technicality.

Of course it will keep people from hijacking. Sure not every hijacker will be prevented, but more will be deterred and/or prevented. I hate it when people make the argument that the terrorists will just find a way around it. By that logic we shouldn't try to stop any crime because someone will find a way around the rules. It just doesn't make sense. Why have security at all then?

My point is that they're going to extremes, and in this case I do think it's silly to violate an amendment when there are still ways to get around it. That old saying "...then the terrorists win." really fits here. Bush always said "They hate us for our freedom." Well, we're doing a damn good job to make sure that isn't a problem anymore.

 

[Xemmy]

In addition to Rockfan89 chiming in:

I'll try to answer this bit by bit. Thank you for making it a pain in the ass.

Over abundance? Really? What's the right amount I wonder? And how did you come to measure it? -just remember to convert to metric for our EU brethren.

I'd go by IQ rate, but people always seem to question that. College graduates might be suitable. It's hard to do since a person's stupidity is usually just gaged by the opinions of others. Maybe this article will help.

http://www.abytheliberal.com/internationalism/are-americans-stupid-statistics-and-research-data

1. It's 'accept' not 'except' 2. You missed my point (don't be myopic in your evaluation) 3. High standards will lead to disappointment practically every time (that last bit was tinged with a hint of sarcasm)

1. Correcting a typo is really pointless.
2. I didn't miss your point. I'm aware that human beings are imperfect, that doesn't mean we can't rise above. The people in the few countries that do have it better than us managed to get a twinge higher.
3. Exuse me for wanting America- the usually self proclaimed "Greatest Country On Earth" to try and live up to the standards it sets for itself. I don't ask to be perfect, I just ask for the problems to be noticed.

[Read it. Throwing a rant back your way. What's "good for the goose…" etc., etc., etc.]

Really? Considering half the criticism you posted in your op was what I put in my opening paragraph. Might as well have copied and pasted it.

Surely you must be joking. One wonders what you consider fascism and just how off the mark you truly are.

Nope. Fascism is to organize a nation according to corporatist perspective. That's definetely become a chunk of our political system.

[Who is this "they" you speak of? How do you know how much better "they" have it? (Hyperbole, cute as it is, won't clarify a point)]

What are we talking about the illuminate or something? You know I'm talking about several of the other first world countries- like Japan, France, or any other country that has a lower mortality rate and better healthcare.

[You spread this dour "word" of yours, like a virulent strain of semi-tourettic verbal diarrhea. It's opinionated claptrap that offers nothing in the way of aid/improvement. Hence I took offense.

So what your saying is that...this is thread was an opinionated rant? Holy shit. e_e No one would have guessed that! Your no better. Half your rebutles have been sarcastic mumblings with no real argument to them. The whole point of spreading an opinion is to try and change others. Thanks for downplaying the spread of information as clearly it doesn't help.

Magic? Don't be silly. Let see, off the top of my head: Vote (and not just every 4 years), perform informed public speaking, organize charity, donate, campaign for elected officials you agree with, volunteer w/ after school programs to remove all that pesky ignorance you hate so much (same with the homeless and other less fortunate groups), consider becoming part of your community government and later on in life stand for office, etc.

All interesting prospects for when I'm out of college and can actually travel. As for voting- thanks genius, I suppose I left out the obvious one. Now who's being myopic. And once again- thanks for missing the opening of the thread.

No, I shouldn't. I save my outrage for the worthwhile.

Ok, enjoy letting airport security oogle at your strip search scannings.

No, it's not.

Exuse me. 4th amendment. And yes. Not technically. But as I explained in my response to Rockfan, it might as well be.

What's not necessary about attempting to prevent people with explosives from boarding airplanes? + Yea, that's kind of the point; adapting to, and trying to circumvent, new methods of terrorism.

When it's taken to the extreme it becomes a problem. And it's only going to get worse. There has to be a damn limit. Maybe it sounds a little crazy, but I imagine when a terrorist finds a way around it, security gets tighter, everyone becomes a little more miserable trying to travel, and a little more of our privacy is taken from us.

 

[RockFan89]

In Health Care alone, politicians recieved 23 million in donations last year and 280 million in lobbying.
If you want me to go through each corporate industry one by one, I'll do it.
That's not official facism, but it sure is the concept.

When an organization lobbies and pays for advertising, they are not paying off politicians. Lobbying and advertising are exercises of free speech. The corporations, insurers, unions, and other special interest groups are using their money to get their side of the issue out there. There is nothing wrong with that. Even though 23 million is a lot of money, it is far from fascism. And did you even read the entire article:

Another $75 million was spent on television advertising airtime by health care interests, mostly politically left-leaning groups and health industries. And another $23 million has flowed from the health care sector into the campaign war chests of 2010 candidates for federal office, on the heels of some $95 million raised during the 2008 cycle.

As you can see, a lot of the money came from left leaning groups, not major corporations

We're number 37 in Healthcare, we're way down on the infant mortality rate, 36 in life expectancy. So if we'd like to go by numbers, we might actually be lower than 90%.

Well let me just point out some of the flaws with the WHO report:

• The report is 10 years old
• The report is based on a lot of data that was not even available or self reported (do you really trust Castro's claims about his health care)
• The report puts a lot of weight on health care equality which is dumb because a country with great health care for some and good health care for others will rank lower than a country with poor health care for everyone
• Life expectancy doesn't take into account murder rates, diets, exercise and other things that vary but have nothing to do with healthcare
• Infant mortality is a deceiving statistic. The U.S. has the best prenatal care. If a child is determined to have a slim chance of surviving, we still go through with the birth while other countries may just abort the child. That has a large impact on that number

For more information see these two articles/reports:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125608054324397621.html
http://www.cato.org/pubs/bp/bp101.pdf

While it is probably true that we aren't number 1 (or even the top ten) you have to consider the fact that we have a much larger population. That will also make it difficult for us to have a better health care system.

It's nice that doctors, lawyers, business owners, and professors out number reality T.V stars. You're missing the point. It's rewarded. So fucking what if you can make it AND contribute to society. My issue is that a shit load of people can make it without contributing a damn thing. Too many- and they're idolized. You have any idea how many kids in this country think Bam Margera as a hero?

Well if you want to look at it that way, these people do contribute to society. They entertain people (Actually I have no idea who Bam Margera is). Would you say the same thing about athletes, actors, musicians, etc. They don't technically add to society but still make millions of dollars. I see no problem with this. No one has ever said you must be smart to succeed in America.

My point is that they're going to extremes, and in this case I do think it's silly to violate an amendment when there are still ways to get around it. That old saying "...then the terrorists win." really fits here. Bush always said "They hate us for our freedom." Well, we're doing a damn good job to make sure that isn't a problem anymore.

I'm not sure what I can say to convince you otherwise. If traveling on a plane requires someone who I don't know and who doesn't know me and can never identify me to sit in a closed off area and see a low quality picture of me naked (along with thousands of other people), then I am okay with it.

The problem I have with your original post is that you're saying that just because many people aren't complaining about the airport scanners, they are stupid. Why can't it be that most people (like me) have thought about the issue and have come to the conclusion that they are not a big deal.

You think people who disagree with you are stupid and are not thinking when in reality there are thinking people on almost all sides of every debate, whether it be the 4th amendment, Julian Assange, or any issue.

If you want to be ashamed of this country for not seeing things the way you do, fine. But I will remain grateful and proud to be an American.

 

[Xemmy]

When an organization lobbies and pays for advertising, they are not paying off politicians. Lobbying and advertising are exercises of free speech. The corporations, insurers, unions, and other special interest groups are using their money to get their side of the issue out there. There is nothing wrong with that. Even though 23 million is a lot of money, it is far from fascism. And did you even read the entire article:

That is just one industry though, and 23 million spread around 600 individuals is definetely enough to sway interest. Lobbying is corporations influencing government. Lobbying alone isn't a problem, but combined with campain contributions and the promise of future money, it is.

As you can see, a lot of the money came from left leaning groups, not major corporations.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's talking about adds in paticular. Now assuming that it isn't, it's still sort of missing the point. Facism is to organize a nation according to corporatist perspectives. Can I point to the bailout as another example of why I think we've got alot fascism in our democracy? The people overwhelmingly said no to the bailout- and it was done anyways, giving hellacious billions to corporations.

Well let me just point out some of the flaws with the WHO report:

• The report is 10 years old
• The report is based on a lot of data that was not even available or self reported (do you really trust Castro's claims about his health care)
• The report puts a lot of weight on health care equality which is dumb because a country with great health care for some and good health care for others will rank lower than a country with poor health care for everyone
• Life expectancy doesn't take into account murder rates, diets, exercise and other things that vary but have nothing to do with healthcare
• Infant mortality is a deceiving statistic. The U.S. has the best prenatal care. If a child is determined to have a slim chance of surviving, we still go through with the birth while other countries may just abort the child. That has a large impact on that number

1. The American Healthcare system hasn't changed much in the last 10 years. Only one major piece of legislation has been passed on it.
2. Remember that this isn't just about healthcare. Our initial subject is about conditions being lower than they could be, and the initial stupidity of the country. Things like murder rates, diet, and the others you mentioned actually add to my point because they put the U.S lower. At least among 1st world countries.
3. WHO's study is really the only major study that's been done in awhile.(To my knowledge) Even if it's flawed, what else do we have to go off of?

For more information see these two articles/reports:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125608054324397621.html
http://www.cato.org/pubs/bp/bp101.pdf

While it is probably true that we aren't number 1 (or even the top ten) you have to consider the fact that we have a much larger population. That will also make it difficult for us to have a better health care system.

I like the articles, and thank you. Though we do have a higher population, and makes it more difficult, that's not what's really holding us back. How many people in this country can't get even get poper healthcare? There are measures to fixing the little things. Japan's got about 150 million. That's pretty big for that island and they do well. (though still only half what we have)

Well if you want to look at it that way, these people do contribute to society. They entertain people (Actually I have no idea who Bam Margera is). Would you say the same thing about athletes, actors, musicians, etc. They don't technically add to society but still make millions of dollars. I see no problem with this. No one has ever said you must be smart to succeed in America.

XD Maybe you don't watch reality T.V (That's a good thing).
While entertainment is important for the masses, it depends on your form of entertainment. No one looks at Tron and is encouraged to ride a light cycle.
Bam Margera, and his little pals preform dangerous and stupid stunts- and what makes it entertaining is when they do really dangerous and gross things. And unlike magicians or stuntmen, these guys do things that children can do in their back yard. Things like jumping off of houses, letting wild animals bite them, and drinking urine for money. (Those aren't exaggerated, they've done all those things.) Other reality T.V display stupidity all the same, just not on such a grand scale. Even though it is entertainment, it's also a really bad influence. And kids (at least in my area) really look up to these people. I'm not saying you should be smart to succeed, (It'd be a plus)
but actually doing something contributing that isn't harmful would be nice.

I'm not sure what I can say to convince you otherwise. If traveling on a plane requires someone who I don't know and who doesn't know me and can never identify me to sit in a closed off area and see a low quality picture of me naked (along with thousands of other people), then I am okay with it.

Feelings mutual. My issues a restriction on privacy. Personally, I'd wouldn't wanting my wife or daughter going through those things.

The problem I have with your original post is that you're saying that just because many people aren't complaining about the airport scanners, they are stupid. Why can't it be that most people (like me) have thought about the issue and have come to the conclusion that they are not a big deal.

Careful now, that's not what I said. I'm just mad that more people aren't outraged about another restriction on privacy.

You think people who disagree with you are stupid and are not thinking when in reality there are thinking people on almost all sides of every debate, whether it be the 4th amendment, Julian Assange, or any issue.

I don't think people who disagree with me are stupid. I think people that don't take the time to inform themselves are stupid. It's not nice to assume how I look at people.

If you want to be ashamed of this country for not seeing things the way you do, fine. But I will remain grateful and proud to be an American.

I'm ashamed of this country for being uninformed. And I'm sorry you're not.

 

[LigerBomb]

Yadda yadda yadda.

I'll try to answer this bit by bit. Thank you for making it a pain in the ass. [You're quite welcome. I'm always happy to help.]

I'd go by IQ rate, but people always seem to question that. [What I was getting at is the idea of an "overabundance" of stupidity, as if to say we've more than enough. I was wondering what you consider to be "enough". As in: What's your upper limit for the nation?] College graduates might be suitable. It's hard to do since a person's stupidity is usually just gaged [gauged] by the opinions of others. Maybe this article will help.

http://www.abytheliberal.com/internationalism/are-americans-stupid-statistics-and-research-data


1. Correcting a typo is really pointless. [How else will you learn?]
2. I didn't miss your point. [Seems ya did...] I'm aware that human beings are imperfect, that doesn't mean we can't rise above. [...because my point was that it's not an "American" problem, but rather a human one. It had nothing to do with excusing said problems/short-comings.] The people in the few countries that do have it better than us managed to get a twinge higher.
3. Exuse [Excuse] me for wanting America- the usually self proclaimed "Greatest Country On Earth" to try and live up to the standards it sets for itself. I don't ask to be perfect, I just ask for the problems to be noticed.[Which they are, as you're hardly the first person to lay claim to being ashamed of American culture (or lack there of).]

Really? Considering half the criticism you posted in your op was what I put in my opening paragraph. Might as well have copied and pasted it. [Half the criticism was the same because I was making a counter point about origin and accountability.]

Nope. Fascism is to organize a nation according to corporatist perspective.[That's a rather interpretative version of the term] That's definetely[definitely]become a chunk of our political system.[You said that we, as a nation, are currently closer to a fascist state rather than a democracy. That's absolute nonsense. Reframing it as a "chunk" of our political system is no better. As we still vote in our representatives and elected officials—who themselves abide by term limits—have multiple levels of government with a fully intact checks and balance system and a congress who routinely fall victim to perhaps too many divergent party opinions preventing legislation, rather than a single authoritative voice dictating policy, I'd say we're quite far off from actually properly defined fascism both in meter and measure.]


What are we talking about the illuminate or something? [You mentioned a "they" w/o giving context. I was merely asking for clarification is all.]You know I'm talking about several of the other first world countries- like Japan, France, or any other country that has a lower mortality rate and better healthcare.[No I honestly didn't as only now have you explained that your interpretation of "better than" was in reference to health care/mortality rate, and not say, GDP, economy, influence, standing military, cultural export, etc.]

So what your saying is that...this is thread was an opinionated rant? [No, you clearly stated that fact in your op. I just added that it was mostly worthless.]Holy shit. e_e No one would have guessed that! [No, no. I'm sure they would, they really aren't as dumb as you think.]Your no better. [You're] Half your rebutles[←two 't's, no 'e', missing an 'a' antecedent to 'l']have been sarcastic mumblings with no real argument to them[the arguments were in the sarcasm]. The whole point of spreading an opinion is to try and change others. Thanks for downplaying the spread of information as clearly it doesn't help.[When done well, I've no quarrel. And again, you're opinion has been rallied around for far longer, and by far better, than you. Thanks for exemplifying a type of irony.]


All interesting prospects for when I'm out of college and can actually travel. [Nope many could be done as an undergrad, if not earlier (with some obvious exceptions), and right in your own town.] As for voting- thanks genius [while close—according to tests I put little stock in—flattery will get you nowhere], I suppose I left out the obvious one. Now who's being myopic [Still you, as myopia, i.e. near/short-sighted would be seeing things in too narrow a fashion—leading to omission—whereas I included many "wide-view" options, even those as "obvious" and banal as voting]. And once again- thanks for missing the opening of the thread. [Nah. Again I read it, I just don't believe that admitting = absolution. "Having one's cake…"]

Ok, enjoy letting airport security oogle at your strip search scannings. [Meh, I stay in shape and have no problems with people getting a free peek (though dinner and a movie would be nice I suppose. Damn those fascists).]

Exuse me. 4th amendment. And yes. Not technically. But as I explained in my response to Rockfan, it might as well be. [Wrong is wrong. Rhetoric is rhetoric. And you're missing a 'c'.]

When it's taken to the extreme it becomes a problem [Potentially; good thing we're not there yet. Such a slope isn't all that slippery]. And it's only going to get worse. There has to be a damn limit [and when we get there we'll all mutually agree upon said limit(s).]. Maybe it sounds a little crazy, but I imagine when a terrorist finds a way around it, security gets tighter, everyone becomes a little more miserable trying to travel, and a little more of our privacy is taken from us.[And we'd have the terrorists, and not the necessary security, to blame.]

 

[Kenny Powers]

I understand the point you are getting at about America celebrating stupidity with reality shows and role models being the cast of Jersey Shore and Paris Hilton. MTV literally pays underage teenagers thousands of dollars to sit at a bar and get drunk and crazy. Lets be honest though, its not like there aren't reality shows that don't broadcast stupidity around the world.

There are some areas America needs to catch up with the rest of the world such as health care and allowing gay men and women to serve in the military. Which we are slowly but surely starting to mend those fences. I have been to several countries in Europe and even Central America. Americans are making out like bandits compared to the poor starving people in Honduras and Guatemala. Not to mention the third world countries like Haiti, Cuba, and the murders in the Congo's of Africa over blood diamonds.

There are many Americans in poverty too, but there are programs in America to help the less fortunate. There are no Unemployment benefits or any benefits for that matter in Honduras. Men can beat their wives and have children with numerous women without the police doing anything about it in Central America. In the middle east women are arrested for wearing jeans or a dress.

I even read a story about a Japanese woman who tried to smuggle pot in Turkey. She was sentenced to life in prison.

There are lots of things wrong about America that need to be addressed. I'm not going to say its the greatest country on earth and every one must live by that creed. However, compared to other countries out there Americans aren't as bad off as we think.