The Stolen Generation - The Apology

[Tim]

So on the 13th February of this year, Kevin Rudd formally apologised on the people of Australia's behalf for the Stolen Generation and everything that happened during that period in our history. My question is do you think that Kevin Rudd should have apologised?

I believe that we should not have apologised for the Stolen Generation. Most of us weren't responsible for what happened back then, why should the whole nation of Australia have to apologise for it? I wasn't even born when it happened, and a lot of the people in Australia weren't even alive for it or they weren't even in Australia when it happened. The only reason we apologised was because the Aboriginals demanded an apology, so to stop them from demanding and asking for things, we gave it to them. And now they're still complaining about the land and other things. It will never end.

To start off with, they only took half castes (half Aboriginal and half European) away from their parents. White people believed that what they were doing back then was right. They thought, for one, that they were providing the half castes a better way of life. They also thought that by eradicating the half castes they would be left with just the Aboriginals and themselves. They then probably would have eradicated the Aborginals from history, and leaving them with what they thought was a perfect race.

I think that the Aboriginals must think about what the Europeans thought they were doing, instead of just thinking about the impact it had on them. Sure, they stole away their children, but they were trying to do it for what they thought was right, and they were getting orders from higher up. They wouldn't have wanted to argue because then they would have lost their job. There was nothing they could do to stop this from continuing to happen at an earlier time.

But we should not have interfered with their life to start off with. They were living fine for a lot longer than the Europeans had, and they were managing alright. However, the Europeans did not see this as a satisfactory style of living and took it upon themselves to help out the kids of that age and give them a good star in the new Australia.

So we should not have apologised as a nation, because we thought we were doing the right thing and most of the nation was not even alive to see this happen. What are your thoughts on this?

 

[Richard]

I think Kevin Rudd is an idiot for appologising to the Aboriginal people of Australia. The appology should never have been issued to the Aboriginals because if you ask me, they don't deserve it.

I can garentee you that if anyone was to go to Sydney and go to a town called Redfern and ask any Aboriginal about The Stolen Generation I think it's pretty safe to say that none of them will know what it means because they are all un-social, rebels who think that they own the place.

The Aboriginals shouldn't have got the appology because 1. It didn't happen to this generation of Aboriginals and 2. It wasn't even this Government that was involved in it either.

John Howard was a smart man regarding this issue and to me, he done the right thing. He acknowledged a wrong doing had been done but did not appologise because he wasn't responsible for it.

Every year on Australia Day, over the city of Sydney, the word "Sorry" would be written in the air just for the Aborginals, they get that every year and they still expected an appology? That's ridiculous.

In Australia, Aboriginals get so many benefits it's just not funny. They gey housing commision, they get centre link benefits, they get special treatment out of fear that the Aboriginals will claim racism if they are turned down from something. Also, I think this is utterly ridiculous, but if you don't get the mark you need at the end of high school to get into Univeristy, if you are Aboriginal, they take consideration, like seriously, what the fuck?

Aboriginals are also welfare abusers, this ties into Brians Chit Chat thread about welfare. From my last check, I think that Aboriginals can get around $700 a week if they claim everything they can claim. Now for not working, that's pretty good. If I was getting that for not working, I wouldn't be wanting an appology.

When I think about it, if a wrong doing happened to my ancesters a long time ago, I wouldn't really care about an appology, I would care if the rest of my nationality were making idiots of themselves screaming out for an appology though.

And guess what, even after they got the appology, they still complain about it which is what frustrates me even more.

 

[Downward Spiral]

The reason there was an apology was simply for further recognition of the torment that the Aboriginal people were placed under during the preceding 230 years. Why shouldn't a Government be allowed to apologise for its previous actions? No, it wasn't the people of today that caused everything to occur to the Aborigines, but there is absolutely no reason on earth that could justify not apologising. Many people are quick to use the 'it wasn't us' routine, but do these people ever stop and think that the Government wasn't apologising for its own actions, but apologising for what had happened to them in the past. If you happened to notice, people also say 'I'm sorry' for such things as other's loved ones deaths. Did they cause the death? No, they're just apologetic for what that person has gone through.

This apology was the first step on what is going to be a long and necessary road to integration in Australia. This apology brought about a nation-wide recognition of the heinous, vile actions of the previous Government, and really, this is all that the Aboriginal people wanted. They didn't want us to feel bad about what had been done, they just wanted us to realise that this is what themselves and their families had been through.

If you ask me, there is nothing more disgusting than a child being forcibly removed from their family because of a Government-initiated policy of assimiliation. There is no contempt for the human being in anything of that nature, and it is a shudder-inducing thought to realise that children were still being stolen and forced to adopt to European culture not that long ago. To not apologise to this would be to ignore everything that went on.

Tim, after reading your post, I think I can sum up what you need to realise in one sentence...

Australia performed actions towards the Aborigines based on racial sentiment and superiority that was carried by not only the Government but by society as a whole.

By defending their actions based on 'they were doing what they thought was right' is absolute trash in my opinion. By defending that, you are defending racism in its entirety, no buts about it. You are saying it was okay for them to be despicably racist and to get away with it, because they thought it was right. I honestly cannot comprehend that someone can possibly believe that.

'Complaining about land and other things'. Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realise people weren't allowed to voice their opinions about the land they owned for 50 000 years that had been stolen from them and never given back. The Aborigines are being forced to abide by white legislation, and have been for a very long time, and still are, and if this isn't justification for anger, I don't know what is.

Also, the term 'caste' is a very derogatory remark. It was originated by white Australians many years ago to refer to Aborigines in an insulting manner (as if labelling them as a percentage of black or white wasn't insulting enough) and is obviously not a polite term to use in this day and age.

And check your facts. It wasn't just 'mixed' Aboriginal children that were taken. While they were the first priority, all Aboriginal children were liable to be taken, in order to 'remove their Aboriginality'. Not just some.

You seem to be comfortable in talking about the revolting policies of the past governments. There is no defending what has happened to Aborigines. None at all. And please do not argue this point further. Whether they thought it was right or not should not cut it with any civilised person. It was racist, no ways around it. There is no defending racism. Don't know how much I have to hammer that in, but it's clear someone needs to.

"My children were just taken away from me by the Government. I'm never going to see them again. But hey, the Europeans just want to breed the heritage out of them, and make them adopt to European culture. I guess if you look at it that way, it's alright."

Tim, this is what I have summed up from what you think the Aborigines should have done. That is disgusting.

We should never have interfered, you are right. However, we did, and we destroyed a culture entirely. There was no thought to equal living, just a biased fucking superiority enforced on the original owners of this land.

Notice how you and I have both used 'we' when talking about what our fellow Australians did? THIS, Tim, is a strong contradiction on your behalf. OUR Australians did this, and now WE have apologised for what happened. You have accepted that your country did this, and I don't see why you can't accept that your country has a responsibility to apologise for every vile thing that has happened. Not because they themselves did it, but because YOUR country wants to illustrate that they understand what they've been through and they want to apologise for OUR country's actions.

This apology was largely significant, you must realise. If the Aborigines wanted it, why shouldn't they have been given it? Accepting each other's needs and wants today is going to be the foundation towards equality in Australia. If we are not willing to apologise, we are not willing to band together as one nation.

Kevin Rudd was right in apologising, and I damn sure hope that's not the only thing he does. The torture the Aborigines have been placed under is too large for words, and it saddens me that you don't treat it that way.



Richard, I don't feel the need to reply to your post as a lot of what you've said ties in with what I've addressed to Tim in this post. But believe me, there's enough in it that I differ strongly on.

 

[Richard]

The reason there was an apology was simply for further recognition of the torment that the Aboriginal people were placed under during the preceding 230 years.

No, the reason there was an appology was that Kevin Rudd knew that he would get the key vote of the Aboriginals if he promised there would be an appology. You talk about further recognition of the torment that the Aboriginal people were placed under. Do you not realise that it's going to make Aboriginals complain more about how long it took? It would have been better to leave it all in the past.

This apology was the first step on what is going to be a long and necessary road to integration in Australia. This apology brought about a nation-wide recognition of the heinous, vile actions of the previous Government, and really, this is all that the Aboriginal people wanted. They didn't want us to feel bad about what had been done, they just wanted us to realise that this is what themselves and their families had been through.

Australia already knew about the actions of the old Government. We did not need the appology to get people to recognise that. Did people not learn anything in History class?

'Complaining about land and other things'. Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realise people weren't allowed to voice their opinions about the land they owned for 50 000 years that had been stolen from them and never given back. The Aborigines are being forced to abide by white legislation, and have been for a very long time, and still are, and if this isn't justification for anger, I don't know what is.

People can voice their opinions, but after an appology has been issued, I think it's time for the Aboriginals to stop going on about it since they got what they wanted, an appology. They arn't being forced to abide by a white legislation now, they get more benefits than white people. Aboriginals have it pretty good if you ask me.

We should never have interfered, you are right. However, we did, and we destroyed a culture entirely. There was no thought to equal living, just a biased fucking superiority enforced on the original owners of this land.

This is ridiculous, Spiral, I will give a garantee right now that the Aboriginals of today complain about how we stole their land, but I bet you any money, they would much rather Australia as a populated, civilised nation instead of what it was before the British arrived.

This apology was largely significant, you must realise. If the Aborigines wanted it, why shouldn't they have been given it? Accepting each other's needs and wants today is going to be the foundation towards equality in Australia. If we are not willing to apologise, we are not willing to band together as one nation.

Nobody here is downplaying its significance as it was a very significant time for Australian history. Also, for the record, equality will never exist. We are the exact same as where we were before the appology though, nothing has changed. We still have Aboriginals complaining about the stolen generation after they got the appology, which is stupid.

Kevin Rudd was right in apologising, and I damn sure hope that's not the only thing he does. The torture the Aborigines have been placed under is too large for words, and it saddens me that you don't treat it that way.

Yes, there was torture and yes it happened to the Aboriginals, but not the Aboriginals of today so they shouldn't have got it. You hope that's not the only thing? Are you serious? You want more benefits and things given out? That is the wrong way to go about it.

Kevin Rudd should have taken John Howards approach, acknowledge, but don't appologise.

 

[Tim]

The reason there was an apology was simply for further recognition of the torment that the Aboriginal people were placed under during the preceding 230 years. Why shouldn't a Government be allowed to apologise for its previous actions? No, it wasn't the people of today that caused everything to occur to the Aborigines, but there is absolutely no reason on earth that could justify not apologising. Many people are quick to use the 'it wasn't us' routine, but do these people ever stop and think that the Government wasn't apologising for its own actions, but apologising for what had happened to them in the past. If you happened to notice, people also say 'I'm sorry' for such things as other's loved ones deaths. Did they cause the death? No, they're just apologetic for what that person has gone through.

But people aren't going to say i'm sorry about the death of a loved one almost 50 years after i happened, would they? No, the person would have moved on by then, and the Aboriginal people should have moved on by now as well.
To apologise on a nation's behalf shouldn't you have the consent of the people first? The majority of people that I heard about it thought that Rudd should not have apologised, so how can he say it was on a nation's behalf? Don't say something for the people if it's not what they actually want. The real reason he apologised was because the Aboriginal people wanted it, and that's the truth. If the Aboriginal people had not wanted it, can you say that he will have still apologised?

This apology was the first step on what is going to be a long and necessary road to integration in Australia. This apology brought about a nation-wide recognition of the heinous, vile actions of the previous Government, and really, this is all that the Aboriginal people wanted. They didn't want us to feel bad about what had been done, they just wanted us to realise that this is what themselves and their families had been through.

Most of, if not all of Australia already know what they have been through, and those that don't would not have listened to the apology. It wouldn't have made a lot of difference to people that are not related or are not friends with Aboriginals. The Aboriginal people want more than just this, they want compensation over what happened, for one. And then it moves on to a list of other things; some they should have, some they shouldn't.

If you ask me, there is nothing more disgusting than a child being forcibly removed from their family because of a Government-initiated policy of assimiliation. There is no contempt for the human being in anything of that nature, and it is a shudder-inducing thought to realise that children were still being stolen and forced to adopt to European culture not that long ago. To not apologise to this would be to ignore everything that went on.

As Richard said, John Howard did not apologise. However, he still recognised everything that happened during that period. They were trying to get them to live better lives, the people of then had different views than people now do. They were trying to help the Aboriginals in their mind.

Tim, after reading your post, I think I can sum up what you need to realise in one sentence...

Australia performed actions towards the Aborigines based on racial sentiment and superiority that was carried by not only the Government but by society as a whole.

You really think that the whole of Australia would have agreed to this? Really? Try thinking a little bit more in depth. There are probably some people that tried to help out the Aboriginals during this period. There is almost never anything where there is a unanimous decision. And there is actually no real proof that the Stolen Generation happened based n racial sentiment. People just assume that.

By defending their actions based on 'they were doing what they thought was right' is absolute trash in my opinion. By defending that, you are defending racism in its entirety, no buts about it. You are saying it was okay for them to be despicably racist and to get away with it, because they thought it was right. I honestly cannot comprehend that someone can possibly believe that.

Different people find it very hard to believe different things, it depends on what your views are. If you thought that someone was abusing their child or not looking after them properly, are you sure that you would not even try and help them? Because not trying to help a person in that situation is just inhumane.

'Complaining about land and other things'. Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realise people weren't allowed to voice their opinions about the land they owned for 50 000 years that had been stolen from them and never given back. The Aborigines are being forced to abide by white legislation, and have been for a very long time, and still are, and if this isn't justification for anger, I don't know what is.

There are a lot of different things that the Aborginals want. If we give them their land back, which is all of Australia, then woulodn't hey be in charge of the land? Couldn't they just kick us out then? I think that they should be given some of the land, but as soon as they get it they'll realise that we could possibly give them more. They will keep on asking for more of everything and once they have gotten what they want of their land back, they will complain about something else. And it will never stop.

Also, the term 'caste' is a very derogatory remark. It was originated by white Australians many years ago to refer to Aborigines in an insulting manner (as if labelling them as a percentage of black or white wasn't insulting enough) and is obviously not a polite term to use in this day and age.

Alright, I used that word without thinking, and I am sorry about that. I didn't mean to insult the Aborigines in ay way by using it.

"My children were just taken away from me by the Government. I'm never going to see them again. But hey, the Europeans just want to breed the heritage out of them, and make them adopt to European culture. I guess if you look at it that way, it's alright."

Tim, this is what I have summed up from what you think the Aborigines should have done. That is disgusting.

I don't know how much I have to stress this, but different people have different views. Of course the Aboriginal people would have thought it would have been wrong. But did any major harm actually come out of the Stolen Generation in the end? But the Europeans would have said that that's ok. You have to remember things were different back then.

We should never have interfered, you are right. However, we did, and we destroyed a culture entirely. There was no thought to equal living, just a biased f***ing superiority enforced on the original owners of this land.

There culture would have eventually destroyed by us interfering with something different anyway. Europeans believed Finders Keepers, so they took the land without even realising it was the Aboriginal peoples' land. And the Aborigines would not have known how to tell the Europeans it was their land, and the Europeans would have trouble understanding Aboriginal beliefs, as each culture's beliefs were different.

Notice how you and I have both used 'we' when talking about what our fellow Australians did? THIS, Tim, is a strong contradiction on your behalf. OUR Australians did this, and now WE have apologised for what happened. You have accepted that your country did this, and I don't see why you can't accept that your country has a responsibility to apologise for every vile thing that has happened. Not because they themselves did it, but because YOUR country wants to illustrate that they understand what they've been through and they want to apologise for OUR country's actions.

Everybody else has moved on with their lives, why can't the Aborigines? Why did they need an apology so much? And you just contradicted yourself Spiral, so the whole country, every single last person, wanted to apologise for it and they all felt that they apologised with Kevin Rudd? I don't think so.

This apology was largely significant, you must realise. If the Aborigines wanted it, why shouldn't they have been given it? Accepting each other's needs and wants today is going to be the foundation towards equality in Australia. If we are not willing to apologise, we are not willing to band together as one nation.

You're not going to always get what you want, and sometimes you have to learn to live with it. We can accept each others needs and wants, but this does not mean we have to give what they want to them. Because of the Aborigines' continuous needs and wants, we can not band together as a country until they stop demanding things and all of them start working together to get want they want.

Kevin Rudd was right in apologising, and I damn sure hope that's not the only thing he does. The torture the Aborigines have been placed under is too large for words, and it saddens me that you don't treat it that way.

So lets see, what other things could Kevin Rudd do? Whatever he does, they'll ask for more of it or something else. If he gives them more money, they'll want even more. And they should be earning this money. When myteacher went to Alice Springs, he said that Aborigines were being given $700 paychecks and then sitting down on the sidewalk and doing nothing. Tell me how that's fair? And its just this particular apology that I think is not necessary and should not have been said. I did not say anything about any other big issues in the Aboriginal history.