The Quality of Matches in the WWE

[kaneso14]

I watched every episode of every show the WWF/WWE had to offer between 1994 and 2003. I stopped watching wrestling completely between 2003 and November of last year and since then I have once again been watching every show and am once again firmly a huge WWE fan.

One thing I have noticed is that the length and quality of matches on regular WWE programming has diminished. Let me first put this into perspective. Back in the Mid 90's when I was quite the little mark, it would be common to have 3/4 matches on Raw which lasted at least 10 minutes. Often the main event would last 20 minutes+. The same could also be said for Superstars and even Sunday Night Heat when it first began. No matter what level of the card it was, each match had it's own story and there were many clean wins. Nothing appeared to be rushed.

Now I watch Raw and we are lucky to even have 3 matches on the card that aren't a Divas match or a tag team match (I don't see the tag team division as relevant these days in the WWE). Of those 3 matches we are lucky if one lasts over ten minutes. It seems that the matches are rushed, center around various spots and each wrestler performing their "5 moves". There are very rarely clean wins where main eventers are concerned and if there is a win it is usually in a gimmick match. The last good matches I watched on Raw were back on the New Year episode of Raw where the Miz retained against JoMo and also the Cage match between Orton, Barrett and Sheamius.

I will admit the quality is much better on Smackdown, which appears to be very much the wrestling show compared to Raw's promo show. It does appear however that we are only getting good long matches with a clean winner at PPV's. I thought the two championship matches at the Royal Rumble were excellent. They told two great stories and the in ring psychology from the wrestlers was excellent.

So what I am asking is:

Has the quality of the matches on WWE programming declined?

Is Raw mainly a promo show nowadays with much less time devoted to putting on a good match?

 

[Jack-Hammer]

There will be no doubt some posters will come on and bash the whole PG rating for lack of anything even remotely creative or original to talk about.

In 2009, wrestling quality on Raw was pretty atrocious, primarily in the second half of the year. A huge problem was you had DX running around popping up in every other segment with Hornswoggle and the segments would sometime last as long as 20 minutes. Not that there weren't good matches sometimes, but it wasn't an uncommon thing for there to be less than 10 minutes of total wrestling action on Raw in 2009. However, over the course of the past year overall, I've been pretty happy with the wrestling on Raw. Over the past 14 or 15 months, general wrestling content on Raw has been considerably stronger. In most of 2010, there'd usually be at least 2 10+ minute matches on Raw, sometimes 3, and a couple of 5 minutes or under. That's also how it's been for most of this year too though there's been a noticable decline in match quality over the course of the past few weeks. That's due to the build up for WrestleMania and doing things to draw as much people's attention to the WWE as can for the purpose of producing as many WM ppv buys as they can. For instance, Raw had returning favorites like JBL and Stone Cold Steve Austin last night. Over the past several weeks, we've had The Rock's invovlement as well and a lot of time has been devoted to Rock as the Gust Host of WrestleMania. People will probably order the ppv, at least some, just to see what Rock ultimately does. Next week on Raw, Trish Stratus returns and Snooki from Jersey Shore will be the "Guest Star". I'm not exactly looking forward to Snooki, I hate Jersey Shore, but JS is something of a phenomenon at this point and this will generate outside media attention for the WWE. The United States Championship match between Daniel Bryan & Sheamus should be really good, so that's definitely a big step up from what we've had the past 2 weeks wrestling wise.

When it comes to SmackDown!, I do enjoy the overall formula of the show more than Raw. SmackDown! usually has a couple of good promo segments with usually 3 matches lasting around the 12-15 minute mark. When you factor out commercials, SmackDown! is about 90 minutes and it's not uncommon at all for more than half of that time to be made up of wrestling matches. Like Raw, SmackDown! has pulled back some on the wrestling content in building WrestleMania, though it hasn't pulled back as much. Raw is pretty much seen as the flagship show of WWE for no other reason than the fact it's been around so much longer and airs live almost every Monday night. Since it's live, there's a different kind of energy that you just don't get with taped shows, thus you tend to have more overall storyline & promo focus on Raw than you usually do on SD!. With SmackDown! airing on Fridays and it being a taped show, it doesn't generate as much general excitement as Raw does even though, from top to bottom, it's sometimes the more enjoyable show to watch.

 

[kaneso14]

I wasn't bashing PG, as I said I am very much a huge WWE fan once again. It is just that since I resumed watching it I have very rarely seen a good quality match on Raw save for what I have mentioned. I do now understand what you mean however, in that they are trying to get as many PPV buys as possible before WM27.

I really enjoy Smackdown too as it has featured some quality matches over the last few months. I really hope that Raw can do the same once things settle down after WM27. Personally I could do without the whole celebrity appearances thing but I can see why they do it

 

[Rckstrtmmy]

I agree and it's the main thing that bothers me about the WWE. And it has NOTHING TO DO WITH PG. Its just that WWE (at least on Raw) just wants to focus on the entertainment side of things. The matches are only tools to further the storylines for the PPVs. For example the Sheamus/Bryan match on Raw last night. I was excited for this match but the second I saw Sheamus "hurt" his ankle I knew they were just setting up the title match for next week. It's bullshit. We as fans actually want to see some wrestling on these shows. Once in a while they'll throw on a great match, but most of the time I'm left disappointed. Most of the superstars are fairly new and not that over with the crowd...I feel if the WWE opened up and let these guys show us what they can really do, they would get over pretty easily. IDK but on a 2+ hour Raw there is barely 30 minutes of in ring action...I think there should be at least an hour of wrestling on a 2 hour show. It just makes sense to me.

 

[kaneso14]

There are too many occasions where a decent quality match looks set only to be ruined at the very beginning by a run in, disqualification, RAW GM, change of stipulation etc. I understand that they want to save many feud matches for PPV's in order to increase buys but they should let one go every once in a while. One match I really wanted to see was Punk/Barrett a few months ago. I know that they are both heels and such a match is very rare but it could have been great.

Sheamus/DBD has the potential to be a great match. I hope they give them a decent length of time to tell their story and put on a good show.

 

[Meliaya]

Yes... The quality of the matches in WWE have deminished alot. I believe that WWE creative thinks that it is much more entertaining to have run in's in matches than having clean finishes. If you want to watch wrestling where there is more clean finishes than not watch TNA. Yes, TNA has run in's but they are far less than WWE, and I see that you mentioned the Divas matches and Tag Teams... well... TNA has a far more powerful Tag Team division with Bear Money, Motor City Machine Guns, Ink Ink, and Gen Me. Also, TNAs Knock out division is far more powerful than WWE's.... There was a entertaining Steal Cage Knockouts match... And for your second question yes Raw is a promo show.... I use to watch WWE Raw and Smackdown everyweek but I had to quit because like you said the whole program is all talk with just maybe at the most 3 matches (and all are extremely unentertaining)... and thats including the main event...
And on a side note that has nothing to do with your questions.... Someone on these forums better mention how WWE has ripped off TNA with bringing in Snookie from the Jersey Shore since TNA has J-Woww and Angelina.... Dont get me wrong I hate the whole Jersey Shore angle on TNA but it must be mentioned that WWE IS ripping them off because if it were the other way around these forums would be blowing up with how TNA is "unoriginal"....

I watched every episode of every show the WWF/WWE had to offer between 1994 and 2003. I stopped watching wrestling completely between 2003 and November of last year and since then I have once again been watching every show and am once again firmly a huge WWE fan.

One thing I have noticed is that the length and quality of matches on regular WWE programming has diminished. Let me first put this into perspective. Back in the Mid 90's when I was quite the little mark, it would be common to have 3/4 matches on Raw which lasted at least 10 minutes. Often the main event would last 20 minutes+. The same could also be said for Superstars and even Sunday Night Heat when it first began. No matter what level of the card it was, each match had it's own story and there were many clean wins. Nothing appeared to be rushed.

Now I watch Raw and we are lucky to even have 3 matches on the card that aren't a Divas match or a tag team match (I don't see the tag team division as relevant these days in the WWE). Of those 3 matches we are lucky if one lasts over ten minutes. It seems that the matches are rushed, center around various spots and each wrestler performing their "5 moves". There are very rarely clean wins where main eventers are concerned and if there is a win it is usually in a gimmick match. The last good matches I watched on Raw were back on the New Year episode of Raw where the Miz retained against JoMo and also the Cage match between Orton, Barrett and Sheamius.

I will admit the quality is much better on Smackdown, which appears to be very much the wrestling show compared to Raw's promo show. It does appear however that we are only getting good long matches with a clean winner at PPV's. I thought the two championship matches at the Royal Rumble were excellent. They told two great stories and the in ring psychology from the wrestlers was excellent.

So what I am asking is:

Has the quality of the matches on WWE programming declined?

Is Raw mainly a promo show nowadays with much less time devoted to putting on a good match?

 

[The Suplexer Perfecter]

Yes... The quality of the matches in WWE have deminished alot. I believe that WWE creative thinks that it is much more entertaining to have run in's in matches than having clean finishes. If you want to watch wrestling where there is more clean finishes than not watch TNA. Yes, TNA has run in's but they are far less than WWE, and I see that you mentioned the Divas matches and Tag Teams... well... TNA has a far more powerful Tag Team division with Bear Money, Motor City Machine Guns, Ink Ink, and Gen Me. Also, TNAs Knock out division is far more powerful than WWE's.... There was a entertaining Steal Cage Knockouts match... And for your second question yes Raw is a promo show.... I use to watch WWE Raw and Smackdown everyweek but I had to quit because like you said the whole program is all talk with just maybe at the most 3 matches (and all are extremely unentertaining)... and thats including the main event...
And on a side note that has nothing to do with your questions....

That was such a great promotion for TNA. "Come watch TNA! WWE sucks!" it's not hard to watch both you know.

Use some spell check too.

Someone on these forums better mention how WWE has ripped off TNA with bringing in Snookie from the Jersey Shore since TNA has J-Woww and Angelina.... Dont get me wrong I hate the whole Jersey Shore angle on TNA but it must be mentioned that WWE IS ripping them off because if it were the other way around these forums would be blowing up with how TNA is "unoriginal"....

Then post that comment on THAT thread. Not on the one that is irrelevant to this topic.

Anyway, WWE has a tough schedule and they cant go 100% every raw. Recently it's been story driven to build up to wrestlemania, which people said they didn't have enough time to do. So they are trying.

Smackdown has more wrestling anyway.

 

[ChiefAlot]

Yes the wrestling has gone down. I blame it on the promos. Now im not bashing them... but most of them last way to long. For instance Rock N Cena. Rock promo via sat was way way way to long. They started out strong but i feel evryone is ready for some action that wont happen. Several other promoms as well have been like this. I do remember fights were timed. (TNA stilll does this) But eben that is lame because if no winner than fans feel cheated.

 

[Rckstrtmmy]

Yes... The quality of the matches in WWE have deminished alot. I believe that WWE creative thinks that it is much more entertaining to have run in's in matches than having clean finishes. If you want to watch wrestling where there is more clean finishes than not watch TNA. Yes, TNA has run in's but they are far less than WWE, and I see that you mentioned the Divas matches and Tag Teams... well... TNA has a far more powerful Tag Team division with Bear Money, Motor City Machine Guns, Ink Ink, and Gen Me. Also, TNAs Knock out division is far more powerful than WWE's.... There was a entertaining Steal Cage Knockouts match... And for your second question yes Raw is a promo show.... I use to watch WWE Raw and Smackdown everyweek but I had to quit because like you said the whole program is all talk with just maybe at the most 3 matches (and all are extremely unentertaining)... and thats including the main event...
And on a side note that has nothing to do with your questions.... Someone on these forums better mention how WWE has ripped off TNA with bringing in Snookie from the Jersey Shore since TNA has J-Woww and Angelina.... Dont get me wrong I hate the whole Jersey Shore angle on TNA but it must be mentioned that WWE IS ripping them off because if it were the other way around these forums would be blowing up with how TNA is "unoriginal"....

How bout TNA ripping off the 2-21-11 Undertaker promos with the 3-3-11 Sting promos? And how can you say they are ripping off TNA yet? We don't even know if Snooki is going to do anything of any significance yet. If she gets involved in a story (which she probably won't because WWE isn't ******ed like TNA) then maybe you can talk but till then STFU.

The matches are held back so the WWE can save the big matches for the PPV's but WWE should at least have some smaller angles going on that can be settled on TV. They used to do this but now there are only a few big angles and the rest of the roster has nothing to do.

 

[VABurghman]

The quality of WWE matches would go up I think if they returned to the days of old. Less talking and more wrestling for starters. Keep the interviews a bit shorter. Dumb the crowd down a bit with more "jobber" matches against local unknowns and only have 1 or 2 big matches on the regular TV show (maybe eliminate Smackdown and combine the rosters). How can the quality of the show be any good when you see virtually the same matches every week? How many times will we see Sheamus and Daniel Brian in the same ring for instance before the Pay Per View. PPV, another topic but you watch PPV level matches twice a week which are basically every match having a run in or controversy so the PPV is no more special than the regular show. Wrestling these days has veered too far into the "Entertainment" side and too far away from the "Wrestling" side when people argued fake or real.

 

[dude_d_dude]

The match quality really HAS gone down.
Raw has the star power to be putting on good quality shows consistently, but for some reason they've just decided to put the wrestling on hold and focus on the storylines.
I guess it makes sense in a way because you wouldn't want to watch the WM card fight each other every week and then STILL pay like $60 to watch the same thing at Mania.

At the same time though you can't just throw 65 interviews, promos and mouth-off segments together and have no teasing of any physical provocation and then expect us to believe these guys really can go out there and give us our money's worth.

All in all, WWE has failed to find the balance between building stories and having good wrestling. As of right now, it feels more like a TV Drama than a wrestling program.

 

[3/4 Facelock]

The match quality has increased. The business is always evolving. Not devolving.

I watched every episode of every show the WWF/WWE had to offer between 1994 and 2003. I stopped watching wrestling completely between 2003 and November of last year and since then I have once again been watching every show and am once again firmly a huge WWE fan.

I'm sorry dude, but I can't take your point of view as a valid one. You are 24. The last time you watched WWE was when you were 16. There is a huge difference between the programming of '03 and '11. The early 2000s couldn't hold a candle to the wrestling we are shown today. Yeah, it was good, but it was good in '03. Now 7 years later after evolving, the talent is better, the wrestling is better, and the shape these men are in are better.

Look at it this way, you remember wrestling. You watch it now, and only remember it with 16 year old eyes. It's like saying "Oh, the Rock is back, so wrestling is watchable and good again."

Give me a break.

I am an old fuck. 30. I have been watching RAW since January 11th, 1993. I have seen every episode. Now, just like you I too have an opinion. Here it is: EVERY YEAR THE MATCH QUALITY GETS BETTER AND BETTER.

The wrestlers are no longer from territories and wrestling that style of match. There were a lot of those guys left in '03. These guys now are all from the indy feds where the the quality is much higher than it used to be.

I do not agree with your viewpoint at all nor do I agree with all the others who share it. The quality of the matches are so much better now and more smooth and technical that I cannot even measure how much it is better by.

The problem is, is that you are seeing better quality. But you can't see it. You cannot see it that way because you took so much time off and missed all that development. You think it's less because it's not like it was int he attitude era.

You will get great matches on both shows, but you will not be getting attitude era stuff like back when you last watched. You get build up and story and the pay off comes at the PPVs.

 

[The Brain]

The match quality has increased. The business is always evolving. Not devolving.



I'm sorry dude, but I can't take your point of view as a valid one. You are 24. The last time you watched WWE was when you were 16. There is a huge difference between the programming of '03 and '11. The early 2000s couldn't hold a candle to the wrestling we are shown today. Yeah, it was good, but it was good in '03. Now 7 years later after evolving, the talent is better, the wrestling is better, and the shape these men are in are better.

Look at it this way, you remember wrestling. You watch it now, and only remember it with 16 year old eyes. It's like saying "Oh, the Rock is back, so wrestling is watchable and good again."

Give me a break.

I am an old fuck. 30. I have been watching RAW since January 11th, 1993. I have seen every episode. Now, just like you I too have an opinion. Here it is: EVERY YEAR THE MATCH QUALITY GETS BETTER AND BETTER.

The wrestlers are no longer from territories and wrestling that style of match. There were a lot of those guys left in '03. These guys now are all from the indy feds where the the quality is much higher than it used to be.
I do not agree with your viewpoint at all nor do I agree with all the others who share it. The quality of the matches are so much better now and more smooth and technical that I cannot even measure how much it is better by.

The problem is, is that you are seeing better quality. But you can't see it. You cannot see it that way because you took so much time off and missed all that development. You think it's less because it's not like it was int he attitude era.

You will get great matches on both shows, but you will not be getting attitude era stuff like back when you last watched. You get build up and story and the pay off comes at the PPVs.

This bolded part is why I disagree with your opinion. I think the match quality has gone down because of the demise of the territories. Years ago a guy would travel the country, or even the world, learning different styles from different people. A guy may take something he learned in Texas, something he learned in Florida, something he learned in Calgary, and something he learned in Japan and put it all together to come up with his style. Learning in all those different places from different people was beneficial. Now everyone is learning from the same people at the same place which is why it’s hard for new guys to stand out. Alberto Del Rio stands out above the other new guys because he’s not an FCW clone.

It seems a lot of the younger guys are too concerned about executing their moves and trying to be innovative. That doesn’t sound like a bad thing, but that’s not what the priority should be. Instead they should be more concerned about working the crowd and getting them involved in the match. One big mistake people make now is thinking charisma and getting over with the crowd is limited to interviews or promos; mic skills. It is far more important to get over with the crowd during a match. I don’t mean by being the one who can do the best german suplex or execute the most submission moves. More important than knowing how to execute those moves is knowing when and why to. That’s what seems to be missing now. Anyone who’s had a little training can go out there and do some suplexes. That doesn’t usually excite people. So many times less is more. If done properly simply rolling out of the ring as a stall tactic can generate as much heat as a DDT on the floor. Slowing down the pace could be a way for the fans to enjoy a match more if they weren’t so quick to chant boring anytime a rest hold was used.

A match used to have a very basic and successful formula. Heel stalls to anger fans. Face takes control early to excite fans. Heel takes over and gets heat often taunting the crowd and face while in control. Face makes a brief comeback to bring the fans to life only to be cut off by the heel and take the wind out of the fans’ sail. Heel continues to dominate making fans more and more anxious for face to comeback. Finally face comes back and the match climaxes to fans as the fans reach the top of their emotional rollercoaster. Now anything that has a lot of counters is considered a great match. The tide changes so quickly in a match today that no one ever really has control. It’s too back and forth. High impact move, counter. High impact move, counter. The face never gets a chance to get sympathy and the heel never gets a chance to build heat. Faster is not better. Want proof? Look at Hulk Hogan. It may be fashionable to say Hogan was shit in the ring, but he always had the crowd in the palm of his hand. There has never been a more successful wrestler. Daniel Bryan could only hope to be as good a professional wrestler as Hulk Hogan.

 

[kaneso14]

Brain I totally agree with your post. I will also add that most of the old stars in the WWE were jobbers at some point and it was through jobbing that many of them learned and honed their craft. If you read Bret Harts autobiography he talks about being a jobber for at least 5 years in Stampede and in the other promotions. He never once criticized his status as a jobber and talks about how much he learned from the older guys in the business who he was jobbing to. Michaels, Edge, Christian, Bret Hart, Taker, Jericho, the Hardys, Triple H, Kane etc: they were all jobbers at some point in their careers. Nowadays, with everyone being signed to contracts, the old style of jobber has gone. We also have superstars who are pushed into the upper cards/ main event scene without really paying their dues like those before them. It started with Goldberg then Lesnar but more recently we have seen it with Orton, Cena etc.

Facelock, I am going to have to disagree with your statement that matches today are of a much higher standard. Yes many Wrestlers are in better physical condition but that does not mean they are putting on better matches. I may not have watched wrestling for many years but I have watched most of the big PPV's and matches of that period in my spare time. If you look at today's main event scene and compare it to 10-15 years ago, it is beyond doubt that the wrestlers then were much better technically and put on much more entertaining matches.

Today: The only great workers in the ME scene are ADR, CM Punk and the Undertaker, but even he is getting old. Triple H was never that good, Edge is overrated in the ring and is clearly performing hurt these days, same with Mysterio. Orton is OK, Cena is poor. The best workers (DBD, Morrison, Evan Bourne etc) are not in the main event, although I hope JoMo changes that.

10-15 years ago: no comparison. We had HBK, The Undertaker in his prime, Bret Hart, Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, The Rock, Mick Foley, Ken Shamrock, Owen Hart to name a few. They all knew how to put on a clinic in the ring and tell a great story in their matches.

Today it is just not the same. We do get some great matches on PPV's and some very good mid card matches occasionally on the TV Shows. Mostly however it's spots and wrestlers performing their "5 moves" (something which is totally VKM's idea apparently). But as I have said, I have only recently returned to watching WWE and I may have missed out on a few things.