The Pittsburgh Pirates

[klunderbunker]

I doubt you'll find much of an argument that this is the worst organization in Major League Baseball. They are currently in their 17th consecutive losing season. Think back seventeen years those of you that are that old. In that whole time, they haven't had a winning season. Last year we saw Tampa Bay, perhaps the most abysmal team in decades turn everything around and make the World Series. I refuse to believe that in 17 years there hasn't been a single team that can't manage to luck their way into a .500 record. Losing like this isn't a bad streak, but a tradition.

My point to this is simple: what do you think is the core reason why Pittsburgh is so awful? It certainly isn't the town as the Penguins and Steelers are reigning champions who I would say have solid attendance. Last week, the Pirates played a day game in front of 2,500 people. I know there were some outside factors, but there is no excuse for it being that low ever. When a great sports town like Pitt can't have more than 3,000 people at a ball game, it's clear that something has been wrong for a very long time. What I want to know is what do you think the reasons are.

 

[NSL]

I doubt you'll find much of an argument that this is the worst organization in Major League Baseball. They are currently in their 17th consecutive losing season. Think back seventeen years those of you that are that old. In that whole time, they haven't had a winning season. Last year we saw Tampa Bay, perhaps the most abysmal team in decades turn everything around and make the World Series. I refuse to believe that in 17 years there hasn't been a single team that can't manage to luck their way into a .500 record. Losing like this isn't a bad streak, but a tradition.

It's sad that there's people here that have not seen a winning Pirates season in their lifetime. It's almost far enough back that we haven't seen it. Isn't that awful?

I can't nail down exactly what the reasons are though. They always have talent. That's shown by the number of guys they trade away each se...

Ohhhhhhh...I get it now...

The Pirates had a choice in 1993 to either re-sign Barry Bonds, or re-sign Andy Van Slyke. Bonds at that time was not the 50 HR per season he guy he became to be, but he was an MVP caliber player, a perennial 30-30 threat, and I believe he already had a Gold Glove or two. They decided to go with Van Slyke, woh was good, but no Barry Bonds.

We all know where Bonds went, and we all see where the Pirates are. They make bad decision after bad decision, and don't see the error in their ways. If they didn't make the major trades they made over the last few years, they'd have players like Jason Bay and Nate McLouth in the middle of their line-up. I can't remember all the names they traded. but I'm sure more than half would have been regulars for them right now, and they're all a lot better than what they have now.

 

[stingerlegends]

The Pirates wouldn't have been able to pay Bonds the money, that's why he was gone, plus he wanted to be a Giant like his dad and his godfather Say Hey.

They have been awful, but haven't even been able to win with the talent they've had--Jason Kendall, Jason Bay, Nate McLouth, Aramis Ramirez, Freddy Sanchez, Brian Giles, to name a few.

I think their problem lies more in chemistry and having a mix of young guys that haven't gelled with the vets. In a few years, they might be able to pull a Rays style upswing with their young talent growing together.

I'm not holding my breath though.

Go Twins!

 

[The Brain]

I’m a Cubs fan and even I feel bad for Pirates fans. I remember when I was a kid and the Pirates won three straight division titles. Three straight division titles are impressive, but it’s even more impressive considering this was before realignment and the wildcard. They were the class of the National League in the early 90’s. Then Bonds left and they haven’t had a winning season since.

The problem is they don’t hang onto their talent. Maybe losing Bonds was inevitable, but that doesn’t excuse the other moves they’ve made in recent years. They always trade away good players before they become free agents so they can get something for them in return. Why don’t they just put some effort into resigning their own players? Why trade Jason Bay instead of signing him and making him your franchise guys? I know they traded Nate McClouth because they’re high on Andrew McCucthen. That’s fine, but that trade seemed to come out of nowhere. I think they could have shopped him around and maybe gotten some better value. Trading Nyjer Morgan made no sense. Lastings Milledge? I think Morgan is a better player now and has more potential than Milledge. I really don’t get that move.

I won’t use specific names, but follow me here. The Pirates have Player 1 and Player 2. They are good young players and have a lot of potential. They are about to become free agents. The Pirates trade them for minor leaguers Player 3 and Player 4 to rebuild the farm system so they can compete in the future. A few years later Player 3 and Player 4 are about to become free agents. The Pirates trade them for minor leaguers Player 5 and Player 6 to rebuild the farm system so they can compete in the future. The Pirates are caught in this cycle and they can’t put a complete team together over the course of a full season. If they would just resign some of their own talent maybe they could actually provide some competition.

It also wouldn’t hurt to spend some money on free agents. When is the last time the Pirates had a major free agent signing? The owners will say they can’t afford free agents. The fans don’t come to the park to bring revenue to the team. It’s like the chicken and the egg. The fans don’t come because the team sucks. The team can’t sign talent because they don’t have money because the fans don’t come.

What the Pirates should do is try to lock up some of their young talent early for a cheap price. Look at Ryan Braun in Milwaukee. After a monster rookie year Milwaukee signed him to a mulit year contract at a bargain price. This guaranteed money looked good to a young inexperienced kid. The Brewers acted long before Braun would become a free agent. Braun was probably thinking he better take the guaranteed money while he could. He may never have another year like that again. The Brewers were probably thinking they better sign him early or he would be on the first plane to New York or Los Angeles when he became a free agent. This was a risk on the Brewers’ part because MLB has definitely seen their share of one year wonders. I think this is a risk worth taking for the Pirates. After 17 consecutive losing seasons they need to try something new.

Sorry for ranting for so long. As a Cubs fan I know something about losing seasons and I do feel bad for the Pirate fans. Even though they’re in my division I would like to see the Pirates return to their glory years. Also PNC Park is the most beautiful park in all of MLB (except for my beloved Wrigley Field). It’s such a shame to see it’s always empty.

 

[gd]

I am one of those fans who has never seen a winning season from the Pirates. Actually, I was a few months old during their last winning season, but that doesn't really count. It isn't that bad with all of the other success in Pittsburgh sports, but it still is quite ridiculous.

I have no problem with the amount of fans that go to Pirate games. Really, why should anyone care about them at all? The organization hasn't given us a product worth watching for years, why should we spend our time and money to support it?

The entire McClatchy/Littlefield Era was a complete joke. We had some talent, but were never willing to spend any many and traded most of it away. The list of players is quite ridiculous. If we would've been willing to pony up a little money at some point, I'm sure we would've had at least one decent season.

Another thing that killed us was awful drafting and building of our farm system. We had the #1 pick in the draft one year, and drafted Bryan Bullington, projecting him to be a #3 starter in the big leagues. If you have the number one pick, you don't settle for a mediocre talent because you aren't willing to pay the best player, that is just being cheap. Other picks such as Van Benscoten and passing on Matt Wieters for a pitcher with a losing record in college were awful as well.

We do have a new look to the front office and I like the direction we're going by building up our farm system pretty significantly. He have pitchers like Duke, Maholm, and Olendorf that have looked good plus Jones, McCutcheon, and Doumit at the core of our team. I am slightly optimistic, but until the Pirates actually give us some positive results, no one in the city will care about them.