As I said before, talking about Jung's WEC fights in talking about him now is pretty much pointless because he's not only improved immensely but he's changed his style so much. I've not once said Zombie would win a fight with Aldo but he'd have a better chance than Koch and would put on a better show.
So, let me get this straight, Jung's WEC fights are pointless, but me saying "placing value in the Hominick victory is pointless" somehow isn't? I'm not sure I follow your logic, but okay. If you can make excuses for one, you can make excuses for another. I don't think either fighter stand a chance and I think it's going to be a one sided ass-kicking either way. It will be a show, but it won't be the Zombie putting it on. It also won't be Koch.
You seem to be looking at this sport with this delusional mindset that you know what others are thinking and how other fans feel and think, but you aint hittin the target boyo. Nobody knows Koch, sure the hardcore guys know him but I doubt any small time fan has heard of him and I hadnt heard much of anything about him since he won that lackluster decision over Brookins, and the only thing since was that he was getting the title shot. Meanwhile Jung has been racking up impressive victories that anyone who pays a little attention to the sport has heard at least some buzz about the guy.
It's sort of my job to know what others are thinking. So, yes. I talk about this sport on a daily basis. With fighters, managers, fans, and agents. I have a pretty good sense of what the casual fan watches. I've had to have one for my own personal life because some of my friends aren't going to care when I see HUGE MMA news and want to talk about it. They care when it's someone they know (Jon Jones' DUI), but they don't care about stuff like Marquardt's Pennsylvania debacle.
You seem to think that the "small time fan" knows who Jung is and they don't. You used the key word; "Small-time" fans don't know who many people are. They're small fans of the sport. Take NASCAR for example; I couldn't give a shit about that sport. I'll watch when important sports moments are happening, but if it weren't those, I wouldn't know who anyone was in that sport. I'd know Junior, Tony Stewart, and Jimmy Johnson. That's about it.
The casual fan will buy what people tell them to buy. If a particular card has a bunch of hardcore fans screaming and hollering, the casual fan will purchase it. The UFC does an excellent job--probably better than anyone, including Vince McMahon--in the business of selling fights and creating promos for events.
Take a look at Mir-dos Santos. That fight was supposed to be Overeem-JDS and people were hyped for it. The UFC put together a remarkable promo for Mir-JDS and actually managed to get you excited as hell for a main event that should be so predictable that it's disgusting. Yet, I cannot help but get pumped as hell when I see that ad.
Sure neither guy is a synonymous with the sport but in the division before Koch was given the Aldo fight nobody was thinking about him, it was Poirier, Jung, Hioki and Koch on the rise behind them. You can do all you want to say that Jung wouldnt have what it takes against Aldo but you cannot convince anyone that Koch is a better selection in any way for this fight aside from your idea that because he speaks english he's a better choice....
I know plenty of casual fans who dont know who Junior dos Santos is, does that mean he isnt gonna sell? There are gonna be casual fans out there who dont know alot of people, but if the majority of them know anyone other than Aldo in the division it's Jung by a mile, he's earned popularity from his entertaining style and improving skills, he is the legit contender at the weight class and is a better sell.
My job isn't to convince you that Jung would sell better. I don't care about that. A bear vs. Overeem would sell like hotcakes, but that doesn't make it worth anyone's time. Simply put, neither guy are ready for Aldo and Hioki looks like a genius for taking one more fight. Even if he winds up losing it, he still finds out where he's at in the division before taking on a beast like Aldo.
Jung is no more of a "legit" contender than Koch. What you're failing to realize is that there is no serious threat to Aldo at the FW division. He's mopped the floor with the best they had to offer. Neither Koch nor Jung are going to flash anything at Aldo that he hasn't seen before. I mean, people don't realize how solidified some of these champions happen to be.
Anderson has just been unstoppable and if he gets through Sonnen, it's over. He will likely lose from not caring before he loses based on skill. One could argue that it's the same with Cruz, GSP, Aldo, and Jones.
You guys don't realize that you're witnessing a changing point in MMA. If you take a god's honest look at the LHW division, it's weak as shit. The cupboard containing fighters that pose a genuine and legitimate threat to Jones' reign is damn near empty. Jones just made the second best LHW in UFC history look like a joke. Rashad's record speaks for itself, his list of wins speaks for itself, and his impressive ways of doing so speak for themselves. Aldo is just as talented, if not more, than Jones.
You keep pointing to the Hominick fight as some indication that he has some glaring weakness in his game. Aldo had one bad round in his UFC career. He's been an absolute juggernaut every other time we've seen him. You said it yourself, he's dominated the division.
You dont want to take anything away from the Hominick fight, that's fine but saying it didnt show anything is pure BS. Not having Tompkins has hurt Hominick and Stout for that matter but that would effect his game plan and his heart, but not his chin. What is showed was for 5 rounds Aldo took it to Hominick and couldnt finish him, while it took Jung a few seconds to put him away, that shows a hell of a lot to me. It would have shown us more if the fight went longer sure but there is always something to take away from a fight and Jung showed us that he can finish an elite level opponent with his striking, and then in his next fight showed he can with his submissions.
His chin? You're serious? First off, if his chin is busted, it's not because of Jung. Hominick has had 31 fights. That will take its toll on anybody's chin.
Additionally, Aldo fought Hominick and couldn't knock him out, but you're treating it like Hominick's chin had anything to do with the loss. You do realize that fighters with excellent chins can have their lights turned out by a well placed shot, right? Also, Hominick wasn't exactly KO-KO'ed. The fight was done, but Hominick wasn't unconscious. If you want to point to a weak chin, cite fighters like Goulet, Arlovski, and Liddell (at the end of his career). Hominick was caught with a great shot, got pounded on before he could get his wits back, and the fight was over. Had nothing to do with his "chin."
You have a massively distorted view of reality if your take-away from the Hominick MMAth was "Jung could finish Hominick and Aldo couldn't." That logic is ridiculous. That's like saying Jones couldn't finish Rashad, but Machida finished him. What did that "show" you? I hope the same thing, if that's the argument you're using.
Jung had an impressive submission, but so did Amir Sadollah. Placing stock in that is worthless. Aldo is a black belt with the Noguieria brothers and Jung is not Frank Mir. The twister was effective because Garcia noticed it too late. Eddie Bravo himself told me that he loved seeing it MMA, but it's not difficult to see coming. Praising Jung's grappling skills for a Twister and D'Arce choke isn't something I'm ready to do when his potential opponent is a Noguieria black belt.
Aldo is definitely that good, he's dominated the weight class and everyone he's faced. I agree that I dont think either one of them would win but we're talking about who deserves it more and who gives us a better show and appealing main event for a PPV. Koch is a game opponent, he's a talented young fighter on the rise and I respect that he took the fight and wish him luck, but that doesnt change that there wont be many fans casual and hardcore that are going to be interested in this fight half as much as they would for Chan Sung Jung vs Jose Aldo. People can say all they want, I'm saying that even without the Poirier fight(although that definitely improved his stock) he would have been a better choice, both guys were 2-0 in the UFC at the time and although Koch was riding a streak from the WEC Zombie's popularity and more exciting performances in his 2 UFC bouts made him a more appealing candidate.
All your main points have "exciting" and "popular" in them. That's not what combat sports are supposed to be about. At the end of the day, neither fighter's opponents made them stand out above the other. As a matter of fact, most people were saying that Jung's win over Hominick would likely not happen if they rematched until Hominick's last fight with Yagin and Jung's last fight with Poirier.
Everybody's comments are based on revisionist history. It's a "now that I know what happened, this is how I see it."
Sure, it's easy to make the case for Jung now, but it wasn't such a "gimme" when Jung's win over Hominick was being questioned because of Tompkins' death and his clear-cut best win was over Garcia. Nothing Koch had stood out anymore than what Jung had. Sure, Jung had Hominick, but he also had losses to Roop and Garcia prior to that fight.
As a matter of fact, Prior to Jung's fight with Poirier, he was 2-2 in his last 4 with one of his wins coming over a man who lost a father figure right before the fight, but whose last fight was for the UFC title.
Jung was actually 2-3 in his last 5 prior to that Hominick fight. Not exactly rocking the most amazing of streaks. Add that to the fact that all 3 of Jung's losses had come as soon as the competition was raised and you get the same predicament that you do with Koch.
Koch might not have a Hominick on his resume, but he is riding a 4 fight win streak with his only loss coming to the last man to fight Aldo. It's not exactly like Assuncao was weak competition. Brookins also has fought Aldo and was finished by him. Koch is the only loss that Brookins has had since facing Aldo in the WEC.
Both fighters had a case and the UFC chose Koch. I think it could have went either way, but I'm not going to complain about it or say that they're somehow screwing up the matchmaking because of it. I find it irrational and nonsensical if you use the logical approach and take into consideration the reality of the decision the UFC had to make.
Either guy could have got the nod and I don't think it would have been unfair either way. If the UFC had chosen Jung, I'd be making these same comments to Koch supporters.
That's the central point I've been making all night and the one that I still believe to be true.
