The Future of Wrestling Depends on TNA's Success

[Rayne]

(Disclaimer: This post will make criticisms of TNA’s approach to their business. This is not an attempt to belittle them; this is my analysis on what TNA’s current position in professional wrestling means to the industry of professional wrestling. You may be tempted to justify an action is taking by mentioning something similar that the WWE did at another time. Just don’t, if that’s the way you’re going with this, I promise you that you have missed the point.)

One of the most common theories about professional wrestling discussed on the internet is that the WWE requires competition in order to better themselves. It is the unspoken foundation of dozens of arguments on these boards, and one I am a firm believer in. The past hundred and fifty years of American capitalism have reinforced that competition between companies is the best way to provide the best opportunities for the consumer; when a company has control of its industry, it can set the terms of sale to their own benefit and the detriment of the consumer. Entertainment is somewhat different, as the cost of attendance doesn’t vary too much in a monopoly situation (people can always find somewhere else to spend their entertainment dollars; it’s impossible to get control of everything that entertains people.) The basic premise, however, holds within niches of the industry. Think Darwinian theory: if an organism has no competition for survival, less fit members of that species are able to survive. (Think storylines here.) With competition for dollars in play, storylines are forced to get the most bang for the company in the time they are given. In terms of “entertainment per minute”, the shows are forced to improve in order to survive.

It is assumed by most people here that the professional wrestling industry will still be around in twenty years, and I don’t doubt that it will exist. But in what form will professional wrestling exist? Professional wrestling faces threats to its business model that haven’t existed previously, and pressures from industries they were previously not in competition with. In this post (grab some coffee, it’s a long one) I will explain how the very future of professional wrestling depends on if TNA is successful today.

I. Changing Times: What Worked Yesterday

It’s frequently stated on these boards that the popularity of wrestling is cyclical. This has proven true in the past, but it makes the faulty assumption that will be the case in the future. Professional wrestling today exists in a very different ecosystem then it did during previous boomtimes, during the mid-80’s and late-90’s. Two major factors which did not exist for professional wrestling have risen since the last boom period; the most major of which is the internet.

One of the worst cliches you hear about the internet is how it’s ‘changed everything’, but it’s a cliche because it’s true. People view their entertainment fundamentally different then they did in 1995. During the last wrestling boom period, spoilers were largely confined to e-mail lists and groups on AOL. They existed, but not in the broad sense where a wrestling fan would have to go out of their way to avoid them. There was a fixed time where you were entertained by wrestling; companies’ websites were not an extension of the entertainment, but served more as advertising for the television content. Now, people expect to be entertained differently. Not only do they want their 2-hour main shows, they want to be able to go on YouTube and watch matches. People are no longer told when they will be entertained by professional wrestling; people want their entertainment NOW. The WWE currently sets the standard here, but there is still a strong division between their television production and their website production. Material on the website doesn’t enhance what a person sees on television, it is in addition to it. There is plenty of coverage of what happened on the television shows; there are additional features, such as trivia columns, Q+A’s with wrestlers in a ‘kayfaybe off-camera’ sense, and the like. They run two television programs online, which is essentially just moving one form of media to another. TNA, on the other hand, has a website. It appears to be in the process of appearing different, but the approach to how TNA uses the internet does not appear to be changing.

Both companies are using the internet in a 1990’s fashion, in a 2011 world. For professional wrestling to thrive again, they will have to figure out a way to further integrate the internet into the basics of their business.

II. Changing Times: The UFC

Another major change since the last professional wrestling boom period has been the proliferation of media outlets. In the 1990’s, fans had maybe 50 channels to choose from; now, they have hundreds, in addition to the internet. From these dark recesses of evolution came the second major change to professional wrestling’s ecosystem since the 1990’s- the UFC.

Make no mistake about it; professional wrestling and UFC are in competition. They are not merely in competition for PPV dollars from fans who are deciding between whether to buy Over the Limit or UFC 131, and can’t afford both; they are in a competition for future viewers. This is at the root of the WWE’s change to an ‘entertainment’ company. It’s not entirely about movies. Everyone knows that professional wrestling is staged, even before they start watching it. However, the options for viewing actual fighting during the 1990’s were limited mostly to boxing and hockey. Boxing is layered in rules and technicalities, so there was plenty of room to promote yourself as fighting, with fans not having many other places to turn to for a competitive violence fix. Now, a person who could become a professional wrestling fan can instead find actual competitive violence easily. Are they the same forms of entertainment? Not at all. But after being exposed to real fighting first, can someone who hasn’t previously watched professional wrestling be able to take it seriously? The most important competition between professional wrestling and MMA is for the viewers of the future.

III. The WWE Can’t Do It Alone

People frequently point to the WWE as a model of success, and within the professional wrestling industry, they are the standard bearers. What people don’t talk about often is how the WWE is on a continuing downward trend. Ratings are slipping; attendance at US house shows is down. While the WWE continues to expand globally, their main focus must continue to be the United States; newer fans are notoriously fickle. Is someone more likely to lose interest in something after a year, or after they’ve been involved with it for several?

The WWE can innovate, to a degree. While I feel they could be doing a lot more with the internet, no other wrestling company is doing better. What the WWE is unwilling to do is take major risks anymore without a threat pushing them to it. This isn’t a bad thing short term, but is very dangerous long term. Media, which is just a fancy catch-all word for “how we communicate”, changes very quickly, and a company that isn’t willing to experiment, or at least rip off ideas from other companies in their field, will find itself unprepared against future threats.

As it’s frequently said, the WWE needs a strong TNA, in order to scare them into making bold moves as the industry leader. There are plenty of reasons not to experiment in the absence of a threat, number one of which is shareholder reaction, which is notorious for smothering innovative ideas in the cradle. TNA, as the second place company, and a distant one, privately owned at that, has the leeway available to them to experiment around. Copying methods used fifteen years ago to get viewers isn’t working today; TNA will need to innovate to catch up to the WWE, and the WWE will both innovate their own ideas and steal the ones working for TNA- to the benefit of wrestling as an entertainment form in the future media market.


The WWE doesn’t need TNA to survive in the future, but if they don’t want to be doomed to a long, slow decline as an entertainment form, they do need strong competition to motivate them to try new ideas. No company is better positioned than TNA to do so. By being unafraid to take risks despite the very real possibility of failure, TNA can begin to set the terms on which the professional wrestling rivalry is fought on- to the benefit of everyone.​

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

I do not think that a competition is possible at this point of time. It's like a 400m race with WWE already at the 300m mark while TNA is at the starting line. TNA does not have the money or the sources to take on WWE at this point of time and they will never be able to take on the WWE until and unless someone as wealthy and resourceful as Vince decides to invest in TNA. While their booking could be a lot better than it currently is, I do not think that a betterment in the quality of the product will be awarded by a significant increase in ratings or in recognition for TNA.

The UFC is something that the wrestling companies need to distance themselves from. WWE has made a step in the right direction by branding themselves an entertainment company.

The internet is something that a lot of different entertainment companies are still trying to master. As of yet, I do think that it is still a secondary form of entertainment to the TV. Yes the internet has the power to entertain you at all times but it is very difficult to shoot a show like that. There have been a few shows, mostly reality shows that have been beamed onto the internet and made viewers possible to be entertained when they want, but even these shows are of a set type, mostly of the format of Big Brother. Like I said, I don't exactly think that the internet will overtake the TV as the major mode of viewing entertainment anytime soon.

As for the resurgence of wrestling business in general, I feel that it is merely a case of latching onto something. The collaboration with Rock n Roll music worked in the 80's, it was crash TV in the 90's. After that I had a feeling that WWE would incorporate a reality show like format into their main product, seeing the popularity of Reality shows. I really had high hopes on the Taboo Tuesday/ Cyber Sunday PPV. I had a feeling that if that succeeded then we might have gotten to see a lot more PPV matches decided by public votes and the public influencing the way a show is booked. Sadly that was not to be.

 

[Dagger Dias]

It's true when you think about it. Competition is good for business, it makes all parties involved try harder to come up with a better product, which makes the fan happier. The better TNA/Impact Wrestling does, the better the product that WWE will put on. Granted they do not recognize TNA/Impact Wrestling as a threat now, but even WCW had to grow before it became a threat. They have a LONG way to go, but if they ever get there then the future of wrestling will change for the better. However, if they fail then the future of wrestling changes for the worse. If WWE become a monopoly, or if the only other options are ROH and indy organizations then they will care even less about what the fans think. Thus, the future of wrestling more or less does depend on how well TNA/Impact Wrestling does because the competition is necessary for better products overall.

 

[reed214]

i am pulling for impact wrestling to be good just so i have an alternative wrestling show to watch during the week when Raw storylines are too cena. they will never ever be in a real "competition", b/c they are too small and they have the wrong people running them. no company with jeff jarrett will be 1/4 as big as the wwe, esp when they bring in hogan and bischoff. i apologize for that line b/c ive said it a few times and i know the fine people on this forum has read it and probably said it themselves but it is so true.

and a few years ago i would have said maybe the ufc would be a threat to wwe, but now i think it has leveled off and the main event fights are now like boxing fights, which is over in minutes and you lose your money. they will never have an event like wrestlemania b/c none of their fighters can stay on top for long.there has always been a fighting league,monday night football and other sports but wrestling will be fine because people will want to see the matches. i'll take a cena wrestlemania match over a ufc fight anyday (because there has only been one amazing fight,that was griffin/bonner 1). we havent been spoiled with too many great matches in wrestling (the reason why the numbers are lower,and product and lack of superstars) but we get way more than the ufc.

the future of wrestling depends on when VKM retires..sorry Vinnie-Mac, i love what you have done but i also hate what you are doing!!!

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

No it doesn't. TNA doesn't matter. TNA is a pimple on Vince Mcmahon's ass. WWE's success will determine wrestling's success. If another company (it won't be TNA) comes along then that'll be great. However, WWE's stranglehold is more than just them putting on a superior product (however you measure). It's brand name. If Coke were to merge with Pepsi, it wouldn't matter how good a new soda was, it would take decades to get near that level. That's how big WWE is. I don't think you guys realize just how much bigger WWE is. WWE has over 80 million dollars worth of plant, property, and equipment assets alone. That's 80,000,000 dollars. WWE is fucking huge. A rising tide raises all ships, if WWE rises, it'll bring all secondardy companies with it.

 

[Fenris]

That is actually a very good, well thought out post Rayne. Although halfway through it I knew some of the usual suspects would chime in with the usual McMahon hero worship but I digress.

Back on topic:

I. Changing Times: What Worked Yesterday

It’s frequently stated on these boards that the popularity of wrestling is cyclical. This has proven true in the past, but it makes the faulty assumption that will be the case in the future. Professional wrestling today exists in a very different ecosystem then it did during previous boomtimes, during the mid-80’s and late-90’s. Two major factors which did not exist for professional wrestling have risen since the last boom period; the most major of which is the internet.

Indeed. It is hugely different today than in the other supposed "cylical" periods. Let's be honest, kayfabe is dead. TNA, WWE, ROH, they can all try to bring it back, but it's not coming back, because of the internet. Vince Russo(here comes the hate) correctly stated in an interview some years back, it doesn't work anymore. As he said, we now have internet. Little Joey and his friends watch pro wrestling. Lil' Joey hops on his parents computer and finds thousands apon thousands of websites smartening him up to the business. He knows real names, he knows spoilers, he knows what an angle is and where it is going. Lil' Joey walks into school Monday morning and tells his friends, now 20 kids are smart to it all.

That's just the kids. Those of us over the age of 20 have LONG known it's all scripted stuff. But the point is it leaves you with two options. 1: You go the Reality TV route, guy A and guy B hate each other because of some real life issue, or because one of them is a Dick. Or 2: You go the ECW route, and treat kayfabe and hokey gimmicks as just that, hokey, campy gimmicks that are entertaining even though they're obviously fake.

The sadly amusing thing is there ARE things that worked in the past that will STILL work, it is just noone does those things. I won't go off on everything I mean right now, but I will say if Verne Gagne were doing some of the things how he preferred things done in this era the AWA would own both promotions.

I'll toss out one other thing in regards to the Internet, being able to tape shows and air them later is outdated, a thing of the past. Anyone that wants to be anything needs to go live each week and weather the financial storm for awhile. You're not going to make a dent in the TV world when spoilers exist.

II. Changing Times: The UFC

Another major change since the last professional wrestling boom period has been the proliferation of media outlets. In the 1990’s, fans had maybe 50 channels to choose from; now, they have hundreds, in addition to the internet. From these dark recesses of evolution came the second major change to professional wrestling’s ecosystem since the 1990’s- the UFC.

I cut out alot to save space, and I may overlap your thoughts. That out of the way, absolutely they are in competition, and Dana White is a smart businessman. He's found a way to involve nonscripted drama into the UFC and market it. As Paul Heyman said, todays UFC fans are yesterdays Attitude Era marks.

Dana White is also smart in that he branches out his UFC brand into other mediums, TV shows, music videos, movies, reality tv you name it. I've bitched about it alot but marketing is the name of the game. If TNA are to grow they need to follow that basic mould, branch out as much as possible including into niche markets not represented by the UFC nor WWE. It may also be helpful to get off the network UFC is on but that's a different topic.

On the UFC subject though, and going back to what Heyman alluded to, making wrestling more UFC-esque is the next evolution of Pro Wrestling and the promotion that does so WILL reap the rewards. It is actually nothing new, Japan branched out in one regard years ago via training Pride(I think?) Fighters in Pro Wrestling then paying them handsomely to do both. With Lesnar, Lashley, O'Hare, Bam Bam, Shamrock and Batista we've kind of seen it but not quite fully. Like I said though, the Promotion who crosses that threshold will be rewarded.

One other thing to think about.... Maybe, just maybe the wrestling itself needs to adapt. Maybe weaving in alot more mat wrestling and chain wrestling, less "fake" movies that are obvious like nailing a dude 20 times in the face yet he never bleeds or bruises type moves. Make it technical, yet realistic and UFC like, minus two guys hugging each other on the mat for 3 minutes trying to stall or fight for position. In other words bring Pro Wrestling full circle, it's just a thought.

Before anyone says anything, no I don't mean kill off the high flyers. They still can bring in money although that too could MAYBE use some updating. Maybe less this guy stands there waiting for a spot as this guy takes 60 seconds to get set up and more like Brian Pillman or Owen Hart used to wrestle. They were high flying wrestlers but made it look REAL. Hit a guy like this, jump the turnbuckles in 2-4 seconds as he's reeling then nail a move. Again, just a thought.

newer fans are notoriously fickle. Is someone more likely to lose interest in something after a year, or after they’ve been involved with it for several?

Haha, I like to call it the Wal-Mart effect. It's a sign of the times, hell look at the modern NFL, they quickly realized it and embraced it, heavily promoting whatever the bandwagon of the season is in all of the markets.

In regards to Wrestling, it'll take alot. You're as good as your last TV show, your last PPV and frankly the last match, simple as that. Unless you're the WWE and content with appealing to just your core audience you have to hit a home run almost every time with nearly every moment of footage. Also again, you need top notch marketing now as well. Everything needs to be cutting edge, current and DIFFERENT in this day and age, and I don't just mean different in a TNA v.s. WWE sense, you gotta market your product as a hip alternative to everything else out there on those 400+ channels now available.

TNA, as the second place company, and a distant one, privately owned at that, has the leeway available to them to experiment around. Copying methods used fifteen years ago to get viewers isn’t working today; TNA will need to innovate to catch up to the WWE,

I was actually pondering this subject during Impact on Thursday, and a though occurred to me, maybe the feuding promotions deal is ALSO outdated. Here's why I thought that: Up until a decade ago it worked because Wrestling was HUGE and up until a decade ago there was always multiple markets and alternatives. At the time it was fun, and it worked because you had big names jumping from this promotion to that, from the WWF to JCP, from AWA to WWF, WWF to WCW, WCW to WWF. But let's be honest, MOST of the fans from that era are gone. During the Monday Night Wars if you combined Nitro and Raw ratings you'd have a 10.0 on average between the two. Combine Raw and Impact you'd have what, a 4.6 average? Those fans are gone and largely replaced by a new breed who ONLY KNOW the WWE and have only ever seen WWE.

What i'm getting at is the fans aren't there to make jumps in a "war." It no longer is there, maybe it is time to move away from all that. Maybe TNA has been doing it all wrong in promoting themselves as at war with WWE, and I don't mean because the guy who thought T.L. Hopper was money is so wonderful. Perhaps TNA instead needs to set their war goggles to the utter crap that's on TV today. I don't really watch alot of TV and am admittedly out of the loop but I imagine there are still certain days where TV programming is weak across the board. I remember it used to be Tuesdays and Wednesdays that were horrible. It would maybe serve TNA better to find a day when TV programming frankly sucks then market themselves not as the anti-WWE, but the alternative programming available instead of crap. If Thursdays are that night simply market your product then.

Point is, don't even acknowledge the WWE. Don't even think about the WWE. Put yourself out there as simply this fresh product with exciting programming that is different than anything else on THAT NIGHT. Do as every other program does in business as well as media and just concentrate on creating your own homegrown fanbase. Eventually MAYBE another promotional war will break out. Deal with it when it does.

Of course this all is my opinion as a fan, and even though I have a strong business background and have used marketing with wild success I may be offbase.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

^^^^WHAT!??!?! Make pro wrestling more UFC esque? NO!!! Are you insane? How do you make a great basketball movie? By filming it as an entire 2 hour long basketball game? No, you add a great story and great characters and have the turmoil of the movie culminate in a simulated game.

Ever see Samoa Joe vs Kurt Angle in a cage where they tried to work it like UFC? It looked like fucking shit. Kayfabe is dead. So you say...make it more like UFC? People who want to watch UFC will watch UFC. They won't watch WWE and say "wow that chain wrestling is obviously fake but it's more realistic than showboating".

Making wrestling like MMA is the single stupidest fucking idea there is out there. It is NOT the answer. Why not just make it all "real fights"?

Wanna know how Dana White got huge? He made characters. UFC fans hate this, but it's true. Tito Ortiz, pretty mediocre, but he was babied, even Dana admits to this, until he had a record that was respectable enough to go against Liddell. Two huge larger than life CHARACTERS, guys who were ahead of the curve and knew how to market themselves as stars to make more money. You think The Ultimate Fighter is really a way to find the next great fighter? No, you do that, but you also make characters out of people. You learn who they are as a person and most of them have explosive personalities. So they become more relatable. Brock Lesnar, allowing that talentless hack Kimbo Slice in? these are CHARACTERS. good fighters, but they are promoted like a mufucker because they are CHARACTERS.

To ensure the future of pro wrestling you can't chase after fans you've lost, that's what's called a "sunk cost". You need to build new fans. Which is what the WWE is doing. They are smart. People know wrestling is fake, so just make it entertaining and fun. That's all you need to do. If you have an entertaining enough concept, people will come. Making pro wrestling behave like something it's not is NOT the way to do it. You build a new fanbase, and you get rid of the stigma. Make wrestling new and fresh to a new and fresh group of people. Don't make wrestling something parents hide from their kids.

Besides all of that, I don't think wrestling is in that much trouble. With Tivo, more channels, and the internet, you can't say "well ratings were this in 1998 and now they're this" because times have totally changed. Look at video game sales, website hits, illegal PPV downloads, ALL of this. WWE still turns a healthy profit, wrestling is still healthy business. ROH is growing, TNA is trying to find it's way. If we stop looking at the ratings and buyrates and comparing directly to the tude era (as I said, that's a flawed study), then this hysteria of wrestling dying and needing to drastically change will stop.


I wish I was better at using the quotes.

If you have a strong business background, then you know WWE CAN'T go the ECW route. That's be awful PR after Benoit. I will be graduating from a top 10% business school in about a year, so I'm no slouch either. I also have a minor in economics.

As for your opinion on TNA, I agree. Don't even acknowledge WWE. For one it makes them look like shit. "WWE sucks and is stupid, fuck WWE" they say while WWE draws more for house shows than they do for PPVs and WWE doesn't even hint at their existence. TNA needs to be it's own thing, stop with the whole "we are wrestling" or whatever the newest pawn they're using to claim they're all about the in ring. Just say "we are TNA, this is what we are". Not literally, but as a company philosophy. Try more comedy. Wrestling is FUN. It can't be serious all the time. DO NOT be like ECW. That was a different time. It would not work today. Not with the UFC, you just look like a bunch of yard tard jackasses. If you want to make wrestling more legitimate, have guys be more athletic. Make it FUN though. Mix Chikara and ROH basically.

Finally, TNA has to make a choice. Be a diet WWE, which will bring them more financial success and make them more mainstream. You will never ever overcome WWE. WWE has too much of a head start and is too much of a brand name. If Angle, Hardy, RVD, Hogan, and Flair being in TNA doesn't boost it, then it's obviously just the brand itself. It's why Coke will always sell more than any lesser known soda regardless of how good it is. So that leaves their other option. Be a true alternative.

Scattered other random thoughts. Yes, make high flying look more spontaneous. This is actually how WWE tries to get their guys to work. It's why I don't think Cara's style works, it's too contrived and the mainstream american audience doesn't buy that for long.

 

[Fenris]

Ever see Samoa Joe vs Kurt Angle in a cage where they tried to work it like UFC? It looked like fucking shit.

Sounds like a typical Samoa Joe match then, fucking shit. And you missed the point.

Making wrestling like MMA is the single stupidest fucking idea there is out there. It is NOT the answer. Why not just make it all "real fights"?

I gave you one good example of what I meant, straight from Japan and the whole Wrestler v.s. MMA fighter deal they used to do. MMA guys wrestling pro wrestling and pro wrestlers fighting in MMA. Crossover appeal and fun to get into. Plus, THAT is where marketing is in 2011. Like I said in that post, a Walmart society. People want and crave crossover appeal in Entertainment. They want "one stop shopping" on their TV set. That is why McMahon is forcing garbage like The Miz down everyones throats, because the more you can branch out your talent into different avenues and crossover the better.

You apparently missed my point in the UFC-esque regard. That or you just want to argue, whichever. Nowhere did I say have worked MMA fights. I said make wrestling UFC-esque. In other words, instead of so and so hating so and so for running them over with a car or because Wrestler X "hears voices in his head(Fucking lame)" or some other hokey bullshit he wants to beat so and so's ass because so and so is in the way and because that's what he does. Instead of lame vignettes like "I'm cool and you're not nyuck nyuck" or Abyss giving his baseball bat a handjob you make it more common sense, more realistic. "My goal is the top and AJ Styles is standing in my way. I want the title along with the money and women it brings and if I have to kick Styles ass so be it." Sounds a bit better than "Nancy(or wtfever that bat is named) wants to hurt AJ Styles and talks to me and i'm going to kill AJ as my inanimate object wants me to" don't you think?

Being UFC-esque as I stated also means dropping stupid shit like a dude laying stiff for 2 minutes while someone bounces across the ring before throwing away their elbow pad and dropping an elbow, or brushes off their shoulder, gets jiggy and drops the 5 knuckles of doom on their opponents head. Just to be unbiased OR some of the bullshit guys like RVD, Hardy and the X-Division do where it takes alot of time to set up and is made obvious their opponent has to set himself up for a spot.

My chain wrestling example, and I actually had several feuds pop into my head when writing it (namely Bret/Owen, Bret/Davey, Benoit/Malenko as well as Taz in general, Kurt Angle, the AWA ect), it is fun to watch, it's worked before, it'll work again and it is ALOT easier to suspend disbelief and get into a match when it looks logical. Of course logical and Pro Wrestling parted ways years ago, that's part of the problem.

Finally, the last part of being UFC-esque kinda goes back to Japan again. In Japan they work alot stiffer than America. When they punch someone they'll actually punch them, at least hard enough to leave a mark without injuring the person. They like to use moves where if you see it you say "yeah THAT could be painful, it's a legit submission" and in general beat each other up. In other words 1900's-1970's Pro Wrestling. It isn't outdated, it is actually a natural progression. ESPECIALLY now that we have H.D. on our screens and can see every little non connecting move with crystal clarity as the receiving end sells it.

In fact, IWC lovechild Jim Cornette even stated the UFC is just doing what Pro Wrestling used to do in the 70's and 80's with great success. Fans would rather go back to that and many of these new fans being created will eventually move onto that kind of thing.

If you have a strong business background, then you know WWE CAN'T go the ECW route.

You seemed to have missed what I said when I said go the ECW route. I'm talking character development here. As I pointed out, there are two options. 1: This guy is a heel because, well, he's a ********) and not very likable. This guy is cool because he kicks asses, parties with hot chicks and has a cool look. And/or, gimmick wise, go the ECW route. Ala Sinister Minister who made the cheesy kayfabe era gimmick style FUNNY and not serious, BWO, Al Snow, Mikey Whipwreck ect.

Point being they were gimmicky as shit, but didn't take themselves too serious and were self-effacing about it. THAT is where the business still is and you don't have to be R-Rated to pull it off, just creative. The WWE kind of has done it, to a point with Santino and Kozlov, albeit in a lame matter it is still entertaining to watch and is over with an entirely new generation of fans. I mean, some of this stuff is already halfway there. Those two, then you've got CM Punk who as a straight edge, holier than thou ******** people buy into. Randy Orton as a cocky young guy who doesn't care about tradition or the past, just beating people up fans bought into and loved. Edge as an asshole who'll bang your girlfriend people got behind.

Point is it still works. Both companies have went there and had success, both have botched the hell out of it after gaining success.

If you want to make wrestling more legitimate, have guys be more athletic. Make it FUN though. Mix Chikara and ROH basically.

Or in other words, be UFC-esque with heels that are assholes, faces that are cool while they compete because they're competitive and want to win(ROH)? Wrestling a stiffer, more realistic style(Chikara)? Huh, novel idea, wish I had suggested that.

Finally, TNA has to make a choice. Be a diet WWE, which will bring them more financial success and make them more mainstream. You will never ever overcome WWE. WWE has too much of a head start and is too much of a brand name. If Angle, Hardy, RVD, Hogan, and Flair being in TNA doesn't boost it, then it's obviously just the brand itself. It's why Coke will always sell more than any lesser known soda regardless of how good it is. So that leaves their other option. Be a true alternative.

Which they may as well be an alternative. My suggestions are purely what i'd like TNA to look like. WWE has their thing, catering to the 3-12 year old demographic and it works for them. TNA needs to be that alternative the same way when Hogan was telling kids to pray in the WWF old Ric Flar was banging playmates and kicking Dusty Rhodes ass in GCW. There's room for one type of product out there BUT, like I said, there is no longer multiple fanbases to compete for. TNA needs to make their own. It is my opinion as a fan for 25+ years that if you mix UFC style gimmicks with campy gimmicks, Pureoso stiffness and chain wrestling you'll have something highly original in America and will be rewarded.

Scattered other random thoughts. Yes, make high flying look more spontaneous. This is actually how WWE tries to get their guys to work. It's why I don't think Cara's style works, it's too contrived and the mainstream american audience doesn't buy that for long.

Yeah it's one thing Vince has been right about, for once, the triple plancha springboard twist of fate supercombo shit doesn't work longterm. It was a novelty at first but there was a reason fans wanted Benoit, Malenko, Guerrero, Chris Jericho and Booker T pushed in WCW while not giving a shit about the cruiserweights being Main Eventers(Sorry you guys who only know the WWE version, after a few years fans grew lukewarm to Lucha Libre, the big pops were going to the mat technicians), it doesn't draw past that initial "wow cool" stage. It CAN but again, you'll have to model yourself after Pillman and Owen. But back to the WWE, the problem is they over script their matches. Kids eat it up, sure, but watching everyone do the same trademarked 5 moves WWE gives them every match with little deviation is boring. That is one reason I actually disagree when people say so and so are a shitty wrestler(Cena for example), they're actually probably pretty good, they're just handcuffed in what they can do.

I don't think you really disagree with me as much as you think, you just thought I meant something else. Like I said above, i'm not talking about scripting fake MMA fights and i'm not talking about adopting the shitty parts of ECW.

 

[Fenris]

I also wanted to throw in this thread, yet keep it separate from the above discussion TNA is missing the boat on two large potential markets. So is the WWE somewhat really.

The markets I am talking about? The Native American market and the South American market. First, the Native American market. The WWE has held once every decade shows on a reservation here, a reservation there. They've drawn good crowds. For the most part though everyone either forgets about that demographic OR they halfass try to gain it by bringing in a N.A. Wrestler here and there. There are several Native American wrestlers and with increased exposure would likely be more who would want to get into it.

TNA is missing the boat. IMO they should pick up a few Native wrestlers, highlight that Mickey James is half Native American more and do house shows on Reservations. When you're not doing house shows there schedule autograph signings with your talent. Show that potential demographic that you want to provide them with a fun product to enjoy and include them in the TNA experience.

The 2nd, South Americans are the fastest growing demographic in America. Wrestling is HUGE down there. This is why Vince keeps a token Luchadore on his roster at all times and brought in guys like Carlito, Primo and Del Rio. This is an area that TNA can jump ahead of WWE in, because it's a new market. Much like bringing in a few Native American wrestlers, bring in a few Luchadores. Famous ones in South America. If TNA goes live and on the road with Impact then use the Impact Zone in a different way. Contact the Latino TV stations, get a deal for a pretaped show in Spanish featuring Luchadores, Mexican America and X-Division guys. Run joint shows with Lucha Libre companies that are drawing good crowds in America. Make that market a stronghold of yours before WWE does. The fans you gain via that TV program will be fans that also tune into Impact Wrestling each week to see what the guys they support are up to and to continue supporting the product.

 

[Calderownz]

I agree with this to an extent. However, it's not that cut and dry.

For example, let's say TNA STOLE half of WWE's audience. From a business stand point, that would be a success. However, the sport wouldn't grow. The audience would simply have taken sides. No growth. If anything, it only takes one company out of the lime light and gets one above their current point.

At the end of the day, competition is never bad. Especially for the consumers. However, growth is needed. If that's from one company for two, it's needed. If WWE continues to push the new guys and someone sticks, it'll work for them just fine. TNA could help, but they need to help themselves first.

 

[The A]

Even though impact is terrible right now a simple change in who is running things could make all the difference. I think Pro Wrestling is a lot more important to the world than people tend to think. Its like baseball or football in a sense that we all grow up in different eras and remember different stars and different times. As far as MMA goes, its cool but it doesnt really float my boat the way wrestling does but its the opposite for alot of people. IMO i wouldnt say they are similar enough to compete for fans (unless its kids) but of course you could argue..l anyway what about ROH arent they coming to TV? For now, WWE is on top of Pro wrestling But ONLY because of what they have done, not what they do now its just my opinion. With that said, They could be knocked off if Impact or ROH stepped up much like what happened to wcw when wwf stepped it up to out do them. But as a fan I feel like more wrestling on TV will make all of it better as it always has. Impact is just too rediculous right now to even be called competition they absolutley do nothing right. I try to watch i just cant...

 

[Karilas]

^^^^WHAT!??!?! Make pro wrestling more UFC esque? NO!!! Are you insane? How do you make a great basketball movie? By filming it as an entire 2 hour long basketball game? No, you add a great story and great characters and have the turmoil of the movie culminate in a simulated game.

Ever see Samoa Joe vs Kurt Angle in a cage where they tried to work it like UFC? It looked like fucking shit. Kayfabe is dead. So you say...make it more like UFC? People who want to watch UFC will watch UFC. They won't watch WWE and say "wow that chain wrestling is obviously fake but it's more realistic than showboating".

Making wrestling like MMA is the single stupidest fucking idea there is out there. It is NOT the answer. Why not just make it all "real fights"?

This is the only part of your post I didn't completely agree with, the rest seemed pretty damn spot-on to me.

While I do agree that making wrestling more like UFC is definitely not the answer, I feel that also wasn't really the intention of the OP, not that I'm saying the crossover idea was particularly great, to counter the effectiveness of that approach I just look back to whole Big Show Vs. Mayweather thing that left me completely cold.

The Japanese approach mentioned does sound vaguely interesting, but I also agree that such an appeal would be immediately tempered by the fact that if you had the crossover into the Pro Wrestling side of things the vast majority of the potential audience already knows the outcome of such a bout would be pre-determined. There just wouldn't be a 'real fight' feel and I believe it would just come across as kinda goofy.

 

[GrandSword]

Just a quick note. In the late 90's Pro-wrestling went through this absolute boom, that was unforseen and really was some sort of fad that probably wont ever be replicated. Raw was receiving ratings of over 7's which has never happened before and since.

I think the future of pro wrestling is an intersting one living it 2011 as wrestling back in the 70's and 80's, their tv show was only one component of what they ouputted. Today however it seems to be all about the ratings. TNA now due to ratings being a huge component of pro-wrestling today (and because their name brand isn't automatically creating viewers like WWE) continuously has to bring in a big name or turn a big name heel, or restart ECW or whatever to try and grab these ratings. MUST SEE TV is their mantra but as it has been said on this forum countless times, the lightning booking of creative fails to grab anyone.

What is the future of pro-wrestling. alot of companies are doing ippv. Is that the way to move to? It does create a more global audience as getting the right cable provider is a thing of the past. Is being on tv or the internet more important in the future?

There is a lot of things that will contribute to the future of PW, and TNA hopefully is a big part of that. It creates (if small) compeition and another place for pro-werstler's to work if they don't like the way WWE is run or vice versa.

I wish all pw companies the very best and I support all wrestling, be it WWE superstars, or TNA iMPACT or ROH shows, or NJPW on you tube etc. etc. . Whatever I can get my hands on, I watch, as I love wrestling, as in wrestling matches. If the TNA storylines are just rubbish then I fast forward and just watch the matches, same to be said for all WWE shows. the matches are suually what interests me, and their video packages that accompany them

 

[chetdawg]

The ROH expansion will be fun and interesting to follow, if they can get a legit TV program and reach a large amount of homes.....alot of things can happen, and i can see them being a major major player in the game. They are already #3 now without TV, and have a few ex stars.......something tells me some real big names (CM Punk ?) wouldn't mind going to ROH in the future and try and push it to the top.

As far as TNA .......having Hogan and the gang there is a draw, but it is also a curse.......and i dare not even mention the hideousness that is Vince Russo.

 

[RVC]

TNA has every ingredient to make a legitimately great wrestling show, yet week after week its a total nonstop letdown.
a large percentage of the roster are great in ring performers, unfortunately the rest is made up of old folk who cant let go and fear they'll be forgotten.

The storylines suck heavily, anything with bischoff, hogan, steiner and who ever else involved is forever gonna stink of late 90's wcw, they're ratings deteriorated and they eventually folded, yet TNA put out a product that is very close in most area's.

Personally i feel the only way forward is to sell everything vince has became afraid to sell, i.e..drop the disqualification and count outs, not every match needs violence but a massive appeal to the viewer is the availability to imagine what "can/could" happen, lets face a few facts, vince's product is forever gonna appeal to the kids more than most, so turn this thing upside down n give people the alternative,

TNA needs to be on the road n realistically it'd would be a wise move to sell out small shows rather than close off half an arena (lockdown), venue's that suit tna's product are more down the route dana white goes down with UFC fight night/Ultimate Fighter finale, the performers will forever feel stale when they put on the odd epic match n they dont pop the crowd or get any recognition for it, the impact zone used once a month would work fine.

Out with the old washed up performers n in with the new.

Paul heyman is probably the only guy left that colud take this thing forward, it's no coincidence when WCW appealed (89, 90,91,92)he was involved, WWE looked attractive from 02 to 05, and ECW was the single most revolutionary thing wrestling has seen.

Good Luck TNA, you need it