The Cosmos, the Universe, and us

[Max Headroom]

Hello all. I decided to make a thread to spark some discussion in a topic I don't see discussed very often in these parts. It's something I love very much, and plan to crate a career in. That is the study of the Universe & Cosmos as we know it.

I don't want to get too in depth, so I'm just going to throw some questions your way & see how you people feel. First off, does it make you feel good knowing we're made of the atoms & materials of stardust from billions of years ago? Yes, there are particles in us that were once particles of a giant star in the beginning of time. There are also atoms in us that were once in Hitler, but that's not a very great thought so lets throw that one out. Does this feeling make you feel connected with the Universe in a way you couldn't of imagined years ago?

Next is life. It's very egocentric to think we are the only living organisms in the Universe, especially considering we are carbon-based life, and carbon is the biggest ****e among the elements. It's everywhere & interacts with everything. Look at how large the Universe is, how many Galaxies & star systems are out there. There is no chance we are the only live biology in this vast place we call home. Look at the recent discoveries of potential planets. They're everywhere! Sure, they're not all ideal like Earth is, but Earth wasn't always ideal. It took millions of years for that to happen. Some say life started on Mars, back when it was more like Earth, but as it started to die an asteroid hit it causing rocks to blow into space, with little bits of life in the crevices of them rocks, that luckily made their way to a young Earth that was ripe for life. Do you believe this theory? Do you think there are other intelligent life forms out there? I certainly do & it excites me like nothing else.

Last, but most definitely not least, Universe or Multiverse? Do you think we are the only Universe, and once we go through the end of the Universe, that's it? Or do you believe String Theorists who say we are one Universe in a bubble of other expanding Universes? With little multi-dimensional stings connecting us throughout? Or, do you believe in a recurring Universe? That is to say as we expand to our demise billions of years from now, instead of it just all coming to an end, it will just simply start over from the point of the big bang? Personally, I like the string theory idea of Muliverses with different laws of physics in each one. It just sounds so out there, and I find it extremely hard to believe our Universe is the end-all be-all of everything. It's the end-all be-all for us, but not for those in other Universes.

What do you guys think? Lets get some intelligent discussion on the go.

 

[SalvIsWin]

About life in the universe, people make the argument that because there are many, many stars, one other star must have possibly developed life at some point. I don't think this is valid reasoning because we don't have the variables necessary to make that point. Yes, there are many stars and many of them could theoretically develop life, but we don't know the probability of life forming on a planet, so it's impossible to say one way or another what is considered likely. People like to think that the universe is so large that even if life forming was a small chance it would have happened, but the chance of life forming could be as relatively small as the universe is big.

There really isn't enough evidence to suggest a multi-verse, although it's an interesting idea and one that obviously demands a lot more research to see if it's plausible. As it stands now, I believe there is one universe and that it will constantly expand - there's a lot to suggest that's happening now and very little to suggest that's going to change.

As an aside, I wish you luck in your upcoming field of study, I study astrophysics casually but I never took courses in school, it was an interest that developed near the end of my university tenure.

 

[Albert T]

1. I think it's simultaneously thrilling and frightening to be made of the atoms of creatures long since deceased because being potentially comprised of elements that one understands and has no comprehension of is truly something you can never be prepared for.

2. I believe absolutely in life beyond our world and would love to be alive when they arrive.

3. This has me baffled, but I tend to believe in the multiverse concept as it, forgive the lack of scientific reasoning, just feels right.

 

[Max Headroom]

To bump this thread up & continue discussion.

First of, Salv, elaborate on not having "variables necessary"? If you're referring to what life needs to be created, it's everywhere! The chemicals that make up are body for the most part are the most abundant chemicals in the Universe, so that's there. Secondly, they recently realized that the "habitable zone" of a planet is much different than just what we originally thought. Life can come to be using different chemicals, also, and that would be an absolutely astonishing find. They've also came to discover that moons, not just planets, can also possibly sustain life. Combine that with the immense size of the Universe & the fact we know oh so little about it, and life somewhere else is practically inevitable.

Now, to throw out a new question that isn't really complex enough to make it's own thread, so I'll continue it in this one. What if aliens already know we're here, or came by & observed the planet, only to conclude there is "no intelligent life"? Think about it, you can warp space-time & travel faster than light through worm-holes all throughout the galaxy, you're not going to think much of a stupid race such as us humans. It would be like comparing ants to us, only we are now the ants.

It's also a very selfish thought to expect the aliens to come to us. We're not special, nor are we important to them. In their eyes, we'll only be worthy once we become advanced enough to travel with them, also.

What do you think?

 

[lenguy]

Ah,back to the almighty topic of the Cosmos. This always gets my digits going on the keyboard. Lets begin shall we.

Next is life. It's very egocentric to think we are the only living organisms in the Universe, especially considering we are carbon-based life, and carbon is the biggest ****e among the elements. It's everywhere & interacts with everything. Look at how large the Universe is, how many Galaxies & star systems are out there. There is no chance we are the only live biology in this vast place we call home. Look at the recent discoveries of potential planets. They're everywhere! Sure, they're not all ideal like Earth is, but Earth wasn't always ideal. It took millions of years for that to happen. Some say life started on Mars, back when it was more like Earth, but as it started to die an asteroid hit it causing rocks to blow into space, with little bits of life in the crevices of them rocks, that luckily made their way to a young Earth that was ripe for life. Do you believe this theory? Do you think there are other intelligent life forms out there? I certainly do & it excites me like nothing else.

I think its very ignorant of us to not only think,as you pointed out that we are the only living organisms in this Universe. I also think that its ignorant to think that the way life evolved on Earth is the only way to go about it. Simply we don't have any other example to compare to how life may evolved asides from the way it as evolved on Earth. Sure,carbon is the dominant molecule that makes up life,here,on Earth,but what's to say that Carbon is the law on the jungle when it comes to how life forms and evolves? Its simply unknowing just to think of how exactly life can form and in what type of environments. Considering we are just one solitary planet in one solar system,in one galaxy,we just can't make an assumption like that.

As far as how common or rare life is. I just have to look at statistics. There are roughly 100 billion or more galaxies and within those galaxies are billions and billions of stars with trillions upon trillions more within the rest of the massive expansion of interstellar space. Then you factor in that there are likely billions,if not trillions of planets with their own star systems. It just seems very unlikely that out there,somewhere in the vast reaches of the cosmos that life hasn't developed elsewhere. It happened here after all,not only did life developed but it diversified and thrived and ultimately gave birth to the entire human race. If it happened here,why is it so crazy to believe that it hasn't happened somewhere else considering the ridiculous amount galaxies and stars out there?

Last, but most definitely not least, Universe or Multiverse? Do you think we are the only Universe, and once we go through the end of the Universe, that's it? Or do you believe String Theorists who say we are one Universe in a bubble of other expanding Universes? With little multi-dimensional stings connecting us throughout? Or, do you believe in a recurring Universe? That is to say as we expand to our demise billions of years from now, instead of it just all coming to an end, it will just simply start over from the point of the big bang? Personally, I like the string theory idea of Muliverses with different laws of physics in each one. It just sounds so out there, and I find it extremely hard to believe our Universe is the end-all be-all of everything. It's the end-all be-all for us, but not for those in other Universes.

Man,it just absolutely blows my mind when we get into a discussion about a single definitive universe or the theory of multiverses. It would be comforting to know that of course,there only one true Universe. Then again the math and the laws of physics and quantum mechanics are now suggesting otherwise aren't they? One universe in an endless expansion sea of other universes,how crazy is that chunk of knowledge? In fact,its rumored that this is exactly how our universe came into existence. When you consider M-theory, that our Universe is just one of possibly and endless line of membranes. Many theorists hypothesis that our universe came into existence when one of these membranes briefly but suddenly collided with another. Creating the energy needed to create something,from nothing. Now,whether or not you believe this is entirely up to you. Just thought I'd point it out.

I like to keep an open mind. I like the idea of the multiverse. I wasn't much a believer a few years ago,but as evidence mounts, I'm beginning to sway in my beliefs.I now think that an endless sea of multiverses,whether in bubble form or membrane form or in any other form seems at the very least not out of this world(ahh see what I did there?? ). However if it does turn out that in fact we are the only universe and we hold everything that ever was and will be then I'm perfectly content living within that reality. It should make us feel all that more special.

What do you guys think? Lets get some intelligent discussion on the go.

Game.Set.Match.

 

[Max Headroom]

Ah,back to the almighty topic of the Cosmos. This always gets my digits going on the keyboard. Lets begin shall we.


Man,it just absolutely blows my mind when we get into a discussion about a single definitive universe or the theory of multiverses. It would be comforting to know that of course,there only one true Universe. Then again the math and the laws of physics and quantum mechanics are now suggesting otherwise aren't they? One universe in an endless expansion sea of other universes,how crazy is that chunk of knowledge? In fact,its rumored that this is exactly how our universe came into existence. When you consider M-theory, that our Universe is just one of possibly and endless line of membranes. Many theorists hypothesis that our universe came into existence when one of these membranes briefly but suddenly collided with another. Creating the energy needed to create something,from nothing. Now,whether or not you believe this is entirely up to you. Just thought I'd point it out.

I like to keep an open mind. I like the idea of the multiverse. I wasn't much a believer a few years ago,but as evidence mounts, I'm beginning to sway in my beliefs.I now think that an endless sea of multiverses,whether in bubble form or membrane form or in any other form seems at the very least not out of this world(ahh see what I did there?? ). However if it does turn out that in fact we are the only universe and we hold everything that ever was and will be then I'm perfectly content living within that reality. It should make us feel all that more special.




Game.Set.Match.

I'm only quoting this because we pretty much share the exact same opinion on life in other places, so on to the multiverse. You say it's comforting to think there is only a Universe, I disagree. If we, as a species, manage to overcome war, religion, and other immature garbage like that & we advance to a type 1, 2, eventually 3 civilization, nothing will stop us. We'll have mastered the workings of the Sun, the other Stars, Galaxies, everything. But then we have one problem; the end of our Universe.

Like I said, we'd have to overcome the stupidity to advance that far, and we're at the breaking point now of either going from type 0 to type 1, or killing ourselves(the latter seems more likely the way things are going, but I hope I'm wrong there). Say we do make it, we can control our entire Galaxy & go anywhere in the Universe, all we need now is a way out. Worm holes is the key here. Once we advance enough we'll have to learn to master getting through a worm hole to another Universe before ours dies. As recent physics shows, a black hole isn't just a singularity, but a rotating disc known as a worm hole, which is like the eye of a severe storm. If we can get through the insane gravity and pass that accretion disc of the worm hole, it'll be like being in the eye of the storm, all is calm. We then need to figure out how to navigate through there and come out somewhere else(hopefully not another near-death Universe, what a stroke of bad luck that would be). Then, if we do that, we can 100% say we will never, ever die. I'm jealous of the fact I won't be around to witness this if we pull it off.

Now, I leave you with this scary(really scary) thought. If we are in a Multiverse, and our Universe was created by the collision of two other older Universes or whatever, who's to say it won't happen again at any random time? Physicists only slightly know the time the Universe will end, if nothing collides with us. Who's to say another Universe won't smack into us tomorrow, or a year from now? What happens then? Do we notice? Do another Universe start growing in the center of ours? Or do we get to bear witness to an extremely tragic Big Bang, which, instead of creating our Universe, destroys it and lays way for a new one?

accretion disc

That's way wrong I apologize. I'm referring to the rotating center of the hole, sorry.

 

[lenguy]

You say it's comforting to think there is only a Universe, I disagree.

Alright. I'm a reasonable kind of guy,elaborate.

If we, as a species, manage to overcome war, religion, and other immature garbage like that & we advance to a type 1, 2, eventually 3 civilization, nothing will stop us. We'll have mastered the workings of the Sun, the other Stars, Galaxies, everything. But then we have one problem;

Go on.

the end of our Universe.

Assuming we live to see that day some 50 plus billion years from now,sure.

Like I said, we'd have to overcome the stupidity to advance that far, and we're at the breaking point now of either going from type 0 to type 1, or killing ourselves(the latter seems more likely the way things are going, but I hope I'm wrong there). Say we do make it, we can control our entire Galaxy & go anywhere in the Universe, all we need now is a way out. Worm holes is the key here. Once we advance enough we'll have to learn to master getting through a worm hole to another Universe before ours dies. As recent physics shows, a black hole isn't just a singularity, but a rotating disc known as a worm hole

Interesting. All theoretical though. Nobody knows exactly how black holes truly work. Nobody knows what happens inside them. In fact, some theorists believe that the radiation within the black holes are simply too intense and would kill any living thing that enters one. Assuming the black hole doesn't rip you apart first with its immense gravitational pull. Remember,not even light can escape a black hole,what are the odds that we would survive the encounter? You would have to generate an absurdly ridiculously amount of energy to counter act all of these forces that are pulling on you just to survive. As it stands right now,humans just don't have this capability. Who knows,in a few thousand to hundred thousand years(if we are still around),I don't see why not.

Consider this. A black hole is a region in space-time where everything is pulled in and suffice to say,gobbled up. Now in general relativity, there is a hypothetical proposal of a thing know as a white hole. Which basically acts exactly the opposite of a black hole. Instead of devouring mass,it in fact vents and blows out light and matter. Now if you make the same connection that I have then what is sucked in from a black may be in fact vent out through one of these white holes. This is all,theory I might add. If Wormholes do exist, I would bet that traveling through a black hole would just be to risky and dangerous. We would have to figure out some other means to travel through a different kind of worm hole,one that doesn't have to potential to kill you. A Traversable Wormhole.

We then need to figure out how to navigate through there and come out somewhere else(hopefully not another near-death Universe, what a stroke of bad luck that would be). Then, if we do that, we can 100% say we will never, ever die. I'm jealous of the fact I won't be around to witness this if we pull it off.

I respectfully disagree. Should we ever sum up the technological means to travel to some other universe. How are we to know that it will be exactly like our universe? Will there be any stars? Galaxies? Will we have travel to a universe where gravity is too weak and thus unable to pull dust and gas together to even form stars or galaxies. Maybe the universe we end up in has a completely different set of physics altogether. There could be particles we've have never heard of,elements completely foreign to us. Particles and elements that could be hazardous to us if interacted with considering that we will have no insight on any of it(remember we are also foreign). Or maybe we enter a universe that's completely made up of anti-matter. In which we are doomed the moment we enter. Instead of putting all your eggs into one basket. Send multiple man expeditions out. Surely one of them is bound to find a habitable Universe,maybe.

There are just so many different variables to consider here. I mean with an infinite amount universes out there. How will we ever know which one to settle in. Its similar to trying to find another planet us humans can live on. Conditions have to be similar to the conditions we have been accustom to over the course of our million year evolutionary journey. We may not be able to survive other wise.

Then again,if we do survive to see the end of our Universe. I think its a pretty safe bet to say we will have evolved some more. To which point? Unknown. Evolved enough to survive any conditions within our own Universe,sure. But another? I don't think so. Besides,I Honestly don't believe we will even last that long. Over the course of billions and billions of years,anything can happen and sooner or later,something will snuff out the human race. Scientists all agree,nothing lasts forever. If the almighty universe can't then we can't. But who knows,after all we are the result of the universe trying to understand itself. Maybe we will overcome our limitations and discover the secrets to immortality.. It remains to be seen though.

Now, I leave you with this scary(really scary) thought. If we are in a Multiverse, and our Universe was created by the collision of two other older Universes or whatever, who's to say it won't happen again at any random time? Physicists only slightly know the time the Universe will end, if nothing collides with us. Who's to say another Universe won't smack into us tomorrow, or a year from now? What happens then? Do we notice? Do another Universe start growing in the center of ours? Or do we get to bear witness to an extremely tragic Big Bang, which, instead of creating our Universe, destroys it and lays way for a new one?

I can't imagine anything would happen. It would probably just create a new Universe. What's not to say it hasn't already happen? It's all hypothetical. Nothing is truly definitive.

That's way wrong I apologize. I'm referring to the rotating center of the hole, sorry.

Apology accepted . Keep the discussions flowing mate. I'll always be back for more.

 

[Radical]

I've always found this type of discussion to be interesting.

I think the main topic here revolves around human life as we know it in the Universe. I'll say right now I don't subscribe to the idea of a Multiverse because I think the Universe IS everything. We know there are billions of galaxies and that and anything else as vast as it can be makes up the Universe.

As for life outside of our planet Earth? Yes, it seems highly unlikely that we are the only living beings in the vast, vast Universe. I think it is almost a hilarious joke, to be honest.

Just imagine if there is a distant planet far far away from us, a planet just like Earth that is evolved to a similar state just like ours and has human beings just like ours wondering the exact same thing as us: "Are there any other living beings out there?" Yet we have no way of knowing for sure.

I want to bring another thought into this discussion if I may.

How insane is the idea of the beginning of the Universe? I mean, the very beginning. Sure, we are talking billions, trillions (maybe even more) years ago but as humans we understand how life works on Earth. Things are born and they live then they die. We'll leave the afterlife debate out of this. But that's life as we know it but because of this we know there has been many human lives before us and presumably many more to live after us. We also know that there have been some amazing occurrences in even our planet over millions of years. We freakin' had DINOSAURS living on this very planet. They lived for millions of years the died off and sometime later humans came around.

But what about the beginning of the Universe. The Big Bang, as they refer to it? Well, when did that happen? Are we to believe that at one point there was nothing and then suddenly a big bang and things started to happen? That brings up the big question of: HOW could that possibly happen? OR the other way of looking at it ... which might just blow your mind ... is that there ALWAYS was a Universe. Always in this context doesn't seem to make sense because how can something always have been?

I often think it's funny how we live on Earth and we can see that there are many stars out there and they are millions of lightyears away. We live in our own Solar System with our own Sun and that would seem like enough, wouldn't it? I mean, sometimes, in an egocentric way it seems like the stars were only put there so humans would have something pretty to look at at night.

I mean, WHY is the Universe so big? We are intelligent beings yet we aren't all-knowing and we aren't magical. We can create human life but we can't control the Universe. We have brains that are evolved enough to ponder these many thoughts but almost no way of figuring out everything.

Maybe that's part of the 'fun' of being human. We get to think about things that seem unexplainable.