The Concept of Time

[TSG]

So this thread idea stems from a conversation I had with a friend recently. He told me that he some day would like to try weed and cocaine. He says that he would want to try these two drugs because of something he saw on TV or read (I forget which) that said that time isn't something that is real, but rather it is a concept in our minds which can be made slower or faster to us in our brains. He told me that they scientifically proved that this was true. He says he would like to try cocaine because it makes time move faster, which is why people that are on cocaine always seem so hyper and jittery, and that weed does the exact opposite, makes time move slower, which is why people high on weed always seem so laid back and such.

To me this makes sense. Seeing as I have religious beliefs, I can see where time could be non-exsistant, and God determines when the Earth is to end, and to us and our minds that a certain amount of time will pass in between the beginning of Earth. Time could also differ to a supernatural being, wether it be God if you Christian, or something you haven't figured out yet if you're an agnostic, where Seven Days could be Seven Years, or Seven Days could be a billion years, which could be why where the Bible only goes back 10,00 years, there are rocks dated back billions of years, so where in The Bible where it says it took seven days to create Earth, it could've tooken billions of years and each day (Monday, Tuesday, etc...) is a certain number of years. II could also see this as a reason why people that are autistic may seem so slow and out of touch, because the world is moving at that very pace and time to them. Seeing that the concept and definition of time has eluded the greatest scholars and scientists, this could very well be true and it does make sense. It could also be attributed to many struggles with time people have and why time also seems longer and shorter at times.

What do you think of this?

 

[Remix]

bollocks can time be affected by your state of mind. The base unit of time is completely and utterly arbitary. the duration of 9,192,631,770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the caesium 133 atom*. now, what mind altering drug could change that?

and the reason that people on cocaine get hyper is the same reason people jacked up on caffeine and sugar get hyper. Coke's a stimulant, so making you full of energy is what it does. nothing to do with distortion of time.

*taken from wikipedia

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

I don't think we can ever know if time really exists or if it does not. Out brains are wired in such a way that we can't think outside of space or time. So, I am not sure exactly where you were friend was going with what he said. Maybe it has to do with the impact drugs have on your motor skills and perception?

 

[antfarm612]

Obviously time is real. You throw a ball in the air, then it hits the ground. Time elapsed in between those two events. If you're high off your ass on cocaine, obviously time SEEMS faster, but that doesn't mean it actually is. Think of it like this. When you smoke weed, you see things differently. You're not seeing things that aren't there, everything you see exists, you just perceive it in a different way. When you do coke, time does not cease to exist, you just perceive it differently. Now, when you do mushrooms, the way your brain works is completely distorted, and you may feel as though time does not exist. But that's because your brain is reacting to the psilosybin (sp?) instead of reacting to real stimuli.

Yes, time is real.

 

[TSG]

Obviously time is real. You throw a ball in the air, then it hits the ground. Time elapsed in between those two events. If you're high off your ass on cocaine, obviously time SEEMS faster, but that doesn't mean it actually is. Think of it like this. When you smoke weed, you see things differently. You're not seeing things that aren't there, everything you see exists, you just perceive it in a different way. When you do coke, time does not cease to exist, you just perceive it differently. Now, when you do mushrooms, the way your brain works is completely distorted, and you may feel as though time does not exist. But that's because your brain is reacting to the psilosybin (sp?) instead of reacting to real stimuli.

Yes, time is real.

Yet but whose two say that time didn't elapse before those two events, we just think it did. And you say that when you smoke weed, we just percieve things in a different way. Well maybe time isn't real, it's just a concept, and that we percieve in different ways at different times. I'm not saying that this is definitley the way things are, it is certainly possible though.

This could also account to reports of alien encounters and abuctees. I'm certain there are other life forms out there somewhere, and maybe they have a different concept of time than us. Maybe to them what would take 5 minutes take millions of lightyears to us. People argue to me, why would aliens come in UFO's and take so much time and effort, and not reveal themselves to us. Maybe it's because it doesn't take them alot of time or effort as we imagine, and it's all a quick, short, fun game to them. Maybe this is also why people who encounter UFO's think they only stare at them for a few seconds or a minute, but in our reality an hour seemingly passes, because they instill their concept of time on us when we encounter them, which is different.

 

[Remix]

Yet but whose to say that time didn't elapse before those two events, we just think it did.

time is arbitary. whether you define time as how long it takes for the earth to orbit the sun, or a second. it exists and theres no way in hell that you can get around that fact by arguing about 'perception'.

And you say that when you smoke weed, we just percieve things in a different way.

which it does. because it interacts with your nerve cells, causing an altered perception.

Well maybe time isn't real, it's just a concept, and that we percieve in different ways at different times.

which wouldnt explain why an atomic clock always has 9,192,631,770 periods of the radiation per second whether i'm stoned, drunk, dead or traveling close to the speed of light.

I'm not saying that this is definitley the way things are,

good. because you're wrong.

it is certainly possible though.

no it isnt.

This could also account to reports of alien encounters and abuctees.

you mean it being complete hogswash/a hoax isnt a good enough explanation

'm certain there are other life forms out there somewhere, and maybe they have a different concept of time than us.

I too believe in life on another planet (too many planets for there not to be) however once again their perception of time would be the same (though their scale is likely to be different). in what way couldn't their perception of time be the same? it exists, that's all there is to it.

Maybe to them what would take 5 minutes take millions of lightyears to us.

1 that's shit 2 lightyears is a measure of distance not time, and 3 the only way that sometihng that would take us millions of years (which would require time to pass) and them a matter of minutes (assuming the same time scale) would be if they were traveling at lightspeed. which is a physical imposibility

People argue to me, why would aliens come in UFO's

and they dont.

and take so much time and effort, and not reveal themselves to us.

the above statemnt explains this so much better.

Maybe it's because it doesn't take them alot of time or effort as we imagine, and it's all a quick, short, fun game to them.

...you realise that the nearest star to us (other than the sun) is 4.2 lightyears away (which is 4x10^16 m, by the way). unless these aliens are capable of breaking funtimental laws of physics, there is no way in hell that that kind of distance can be traveled in what could possibly be described as 'a short fun game'

Maybe this is also why people who encounter UFO's think they only stare at them for a few seconds or a minute, but in our reality an hour seemingly passes, because they instill their concept of time on us when we encounter them, which is different.

...what the fuck are you saying? stop trying to be a philosopher and be quiet.

your ravings do have a grain of truth to them however. time is not fixed. it can be warped by traveling at relativistic speeds. however the same thing applies to mass, but nobody's going to argue the non existance of that.

 

[antfarm612]

Yet but whose two say that time didn't elapse before those two events

Someone who is wrong. Certain things just are, and are not up for debate. 1+1=2. Time elapses between two events.

Think about two seconds ago. You will never, ever get that moment back, because that time has passed.

 

[Smooth Sexual Chocolate]

First, Its not the cocaine, and its not the weed, If you really want to be mind fucked by time, Its those psychedelic mushrooms (also called psilocybian mushrooms or teónanácatl).

The concept of time is not as cut and dry as some are trying to make it, and to dismiss time as being perceived by the mind is hogwash.

time is arbitary. whether you define time as how long it takes for the earth to orbit the sun, or a second. it exists and theres no way in hell that you can get around that fact by arguing about 'perception'.

I'm a fan of science too, but to think that science has the answer's for all questions is pretty naive, and clearly you have never enjoyed a fine cup of mushroom tea.

...what the fuck are you saying? stop trying to be a philosopher and be quiet.

What are you saying, telling someone to be quite because you don't agree with their views, come on.

 

[Remix]

First, Its not the cocaine, and its not the weed, If you really want to be mind fucked by time, Its those psychedelic mushrooms (also called psilocybian mushrooms or teónanácatl).

except that like weed and coke it may screw up what you percieve but it wont change how much time passes.

The concept of time is not as cut and dry as some are trying to make it, and to dismiss time as being perceived by the mind is hogwash.

except that it is. the length of second is a fixed value that can be derived anywhere on earth, regardless of what drugs a person is on.

I'm a fan of science too, but to think that science has the answer's for all questions is pretty naive

I agree for some things science isnt the answer. however for arguments about existant things (such as time) it is a good one.

and clearly you have never enjoyed a fine cup of mushroom tea.

no I havent. not that it would affect the passage of time (which the OP is saying it would). and If i was caught drinking a cup of psyhedelic mushroom tea I would get kicked off my course (which before anybody calls 'war on drugs' is not the university's choice. It's the RPSGB's. And it makes sence), so it isnt worth trying.

What are you saying, telling someone to be quiet because you don't agree with their views, come on.

no, I'm telling someone with a moronic viewpoint to be quiet. there's a subtle difference. I'd say exactly the same thing if he was arguing that is's possible to travel faster than the speed of light in a vacuum (which is a physical impossibility for anything with mass). the fact of the matter is that he's wrong (coke, weed and 'shrooms dont affect the passage of time) and I'm telling him to be quiet.

 

[Blade]

I know that no matter how I phrase this, it won't come out the way I want and I'll just sound like an idiot, but I'll give it a shot.

My opinion is that time is a man-made invention. Something we created to make our lives better. Because in my eyes, there is no proof that time exists. There's proof that gravity exists, stuff falls to the ground and we're stuck to the earth. That's nature. But I think time is merely an invention, an idea.
What proof is there of time? The fact that we change? If someone froze time to one single moment, he'd still change. What I'm trying to say (trying, and probably failing) is that we're stuck in one single moment. There's no real time, it's just us moving through space in one singular moment.

Or something. I dunno.

 

[Remix]

you realise that if time didnt exist niether would speed (rate of change of distance over time), acceleration (rate of change of speed* over time), force (rate of change of momentum over time), power (work done over time). everything falls apart without time, not just our 24 hour day and 7 day week.

 

[TSG]

I know that no matter how I phrase this, it won't come out the way I want and I'll just sound like an idiot, but I'll give it a shot.

My opinion is that time is a man-made invention. Something we created to make our lives better. Because in my eyes, there is no proof that time exists. There's proof that gravity exists, stuff falls to the ground and we're stuck to the earth. That's nature. But I think time is merely an invention, an idea.
What proof is there of time? The fact that we change? If someone froze time to one single moment, he'd still change. What I'm trying to say (trying, and probably failing) is that we're stuck in one single moment. There's no real time, it's just us moving through space in one singular moment.

Or something. I dunno.

I get what your trying to say, Blade. What you are basically trying to convey here is that time is just a concept in our minds, something that is man-made and planted into our minds. It's basically what I'm trying to say also.

And for everything that keeps bringing up what I said about the drugs and stuff, ignore that. That is just what my friend used to explain it. It isn't what I'm saying. What I'm saying has nothing to do about the effects of drugs on our minds. You're right, that wether we're high or not, two seconds of time will elapse, and we cannot get it back. What I'm saying is, did two seconds really just pass, or do we just think that two seconds passed, and in actuality there is no such thing as two seconds, or there is such a thing but it is longer or faster than what we think. I can also vouch that drugs may make us percieve what we think is actually two seconds but actually isn't two seconds seem longer or shorter than what we think two seconds is, or what two seconds may actually be. I just think that what my friend was explaining to me, which kind of what Blade's philosphy is, does make sense and it could be true. It could also be used to make sense of many things in life that we haven't figured out yet.

 

[stingerlegends]

I love this argument.

My take: Time is man-made. It is merely a measurement used to define intervals of change. Man needed a way to explain how (when) events happened, and that change took place during a longer interval than a seperate event of change. So time exists in the sense that man invented it, as a form of measurement. Whether or not time can be made slower or not relies on perception, drugs can do that. Age can also. A month for me goes by a hell of a lot faster now than it did ten years ago, or fifteen. An hour seems quite long for a class, but not for television.

 

[stingerlegends]

I get what your trying to say, Blade. What you are basically trying to convey here is that time is just a concept in our minds, something that is man-made and planted into our minds. It's basically what I'm trying to say also.

And for everything that keeps bringing up what I said about the drugs and stuff, ignore that. That is just what my friend used to explain it. It isn't what I'm saying. What I'm saying has nothing to do about the effects of drugs on our minds. You're right, that wether we're high or not, two seconds of time will elapse, and we cannot get it back. What I'm saying is, did two seconds really just pass, or do we just think that two seconds passed, and in actuality there is no such thing as two seconds, or there is such a thing but it is longer or faster than what we think. I can also vouch that drugs may make us percieve what we think is actually two seconds but actually isn't two seconds seem longer or shorter than what we think two seconds is, or what two seconds may actually be. I just think that what my friend was explaining to me, which kind of what Blade's philosphy is, does make sense and it could be true. It could also be used to make sense of many things in life that we haven't figured out yet.

And based on what I said in my previous post, can you fit more or less action/change into 5 seconds while your perception is altered? If you cannot, then "time" has not changed. It is merely perception of time that has.

 

[Razor]

You guys are taking this the entirely wrong way. It's all Relativity, dudes. No. Not "Relative." Relativity.

Einstein's Theory of Relativity. As he said:

"Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour. Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a minute. THAT’S relativity."

It all depends on where you're at, and how you perceive the action. I won't get Physicist on you and start arguing the effects of traveling at the speed of light, or the distortion of time in gravitational fields, but it's the same concept. If I'm day dreaming in my desk when I'm supposed to be learning how alcohols react with alkanes, if I'm reading my Stephen King book On Writing, or if I'm hitting on the cute girl in my Biological Engineering Design Studio, time is going to go by way more quickly for me than for you, the man stuck staring at paint dry.

It's all about perception. Are you focusing on time? Then you're going to watch it drain slow by, tick by tick. Are you focusing on the girl two rows in front that wore her hair that special way today? Then you're not going to notice time flying by. It's just like if you're focusing intently on your computer screen while someone sneaks up slowly behind you. You won't notice they've slunk past until you realize half your shit is missing and a gun is at the back of your head.

Time isn't man-made, time is a feature of the universe. Time passes by no matter if you want it to or not. How you perceive time though, that's what will get ya.

 

[stingerlegends]

You guys are taking this the entirely wrong way. It's all Relativity, dudes. No. Not "Relative." Relativity.

Einstein's Theory of Relativity. As he said:

"Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour. Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a minute. THAT’S relativity."

It all depends on where you're at, and how you perceive the action. I won't get Physicist on you and start arguing the effects of traveling at the speed of light, or the distortion of time in gravitational fields, but it's the same concept. If I'm day dreaming in my desk when I'm supposed to be learning how alcohols react with alkanes, if I'm reading my Stephen King book On Writing, or if I'm hitting on the cute girl in my Biological Engineering Design Studio, time is going to go by way more quickly for me than for you, the man stuck staring at paint dry.

It's all about perception. Are you focusing on time? Then you're going to watch it drain slow by, tick by tick. Are you focusing on the girl two rows in front that wore her hair that special way today? Then you're not going to notice time flying by. It's just like if you're focusing intently on your computer screen while someone sneaks up slowly behind you. You won't notice they've slunk past until you realize half your shit is missing and a gun is at the back of your head.

Time isn't man-made, time is a feature of the universe. Time passes by no matter if you want it to or not. How you perceive time though, that's what will get ya.

But what is time, Razor? It is the measurement of change, of events. Time in and of itself does not "exist". Change, however, does exist, and in order to measure the distance between two events, "time" was created.

 

[PEP3]

Let me tell you something... Try this to see if I'm right.

One of you get high on cocaine. I won't. We'll both put an hour on a pair of stop watches. When I say so, we both click "Start"! Sixty minutes later, I bet both stop watches read 00:00.

You'll still be high. I still won't be. But an hour has passed for both of us.

Try the same with some pot, and I bet we get the same results.

Doing drugs can make you feel sped up or slowed down, but it doesn't change time. Sorry to break up your fantasy, boys.

Besides, drugs are bad, mmmmkay?

 

[Razor]

But what is time, Razor? It is the measurement of change, of events. Time in and of itself does not "exist". Change, however, does exist, and in order to measure the distance between two events, "time" was created.

Time passes no matter if you want it to or not. Only the form of measurement is man made. I could measure time in sprockets if I wanted to. Every two snaps of my finger is a sprocket, set your watches by that. Time exists as a constant. Time is always moving, always flipping to the next second, sprocket, or hammywink.

It's like measuring distance. Distance is a definite value of the universe that is always there. I can measure distance in two different ways, feet or meters. Hell, I can measure it with my penis and call each unit a "Penile." Of course, that would be a horrible way to measure considering my penis is most likely not the same size as everyone else' penis, but you get my point.

The way you measure something, while I agree the measurement is man made, does not make the concept you're measuring man made.

 

[48.7 is Approximately 49 Times Better Than You]

I don't understand how anyone can sit and tell me that time doesn't exist. It's 10:00 and I'm in Honors English. Mrs. Patrick is giving a lecture on early American Literature. My friend Michael is sitting with his head on the desk, while I am playing Monopoly on my phone. Class will feel shorter to me than it will Michael, but the bell is still going to ring at 10:45 for the both of us. Time is fixed. It can't be changed. I can't understand any argument that says any differently.

 

[Tastycles]

The philosophy of time is a very deep running thing that isn't as easy as it seems to pin down. While it is ******ed to base your entire concept of anything on the effects of usage of class A drugs, there is certainly some room for debate on the reality and unreality of time. I have an essay that I wrote about it in front of me now, I was going to post it, but thought better of it as I am still a student, and don't want to get thrown out of uni. As soon as I graduate, I'll dig it out. That's a lie. But if you want to read it, I'll PM you it.

Basically, I suggest you read this, as it is about the fundamental paper written about the unreality of time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Unreality_of_Time