The Bible as "The Word of God"

[Steamboat Ricky]

Ok, so I'm having a conversation with this girl about the souls of animals. I tell her about how I have many times considered becoming a vegetarian because I don't like the notion that I'm eating an animal whose ultimate purpose in life was to die so that I could eat it. She said something along the lines of "well that was its job...that's the way God made them...it says somewhere in the Bible that they don't have souls."

I then replied with: "Well, the Bible also says that God drowned every freaking person on the planet, so I don't always give a lot of credence to it."


Then it hit me...I cannot in good conscience, say that the Bible is "The Word of God." You all probably know me as Ricky, the one time future church pastor and resident theologian.

But I can't, at the moment...in good conscience, say to anyone that The Bible is "The Word of God." The God that I know would not drown God's people. Clearly, it's all in how you interpret it, and I understand that the flood story is symbolic and mythical...but when I say "The Word of God," I'm referring to how the term is used by most conservative evangelical Christians of the day.

What is your take on The Bible and it being a manuscript of the divine?

 

[Jack-Hammer]

If The Bible just suddenly materialized out of thin air with a bright halo of golden light surrounding it, that'd be one thing. There have been little bits and pieces added to certain books and passages within The Bible centuries after the death of Jesus. The entire Bible isn't like that of course, but enough contradictions exist within its pages to show that it was written by the hand of man and not God. I do believe in God though I do understand why some people don't. Changes and additions made to The Bible were made by powerful men, men that wielded a great deal of both religious and political influence and I have little faith in men. And how often have we seen, read of or heard about power corrupting? We hear and read about that stuff happening almost on a daily basis today and man 1,000-1,500 years ago wasn't so different from the way they are today.

I can't think of how often I've heard someone say that they're doing the "Will of God" or that they know God's purpose. I'm hardly an expert on The Bible, not by any stretch, but there's a passage somewhere in the Book of Matthew that mentions the End of Days. After all, how often have you heard someone say that the End of Days is rapidly coming upon us? I don't know what the passage said word for word exactly, but it was something along the lines that not even the Angels or the Son of Man, Jesus, knows when Judgement Day comes and that only God alone knows the day and the hour and so on and so forth. I got to thinking about that and that passage can be applied to The Bible in and of itself in many ways. I've asked a few highly devout Christians about that who believe that The Bible is the World of God. How can they claim to know God's will when, right there in The Bible, there are events and just general things that only God knows.

I believe that a person can base their core beliefs on fundamental Christian teachings, but the "Word of God" is as unknowable as the Will of God as they both seem to be closely tied to each other. Anyone can memorize Bible passages and come across as righteous and holy. Many Christians believe that God is a being beyond mortal understanding. If that's true, then the idea of The Bible being his "Word" seems a bit contradictory to me in and of itself.

 

[Rasha]

I then replied with: "Well, the Bible also says that God drowned every freaking person on the planet, so I don't always give a lot of credence to it."

I guess you missed the part about Noah's ark?

All Biblical example of God punishing mankind (The Flood, Sodom & Gomorrah, Golden Calf at Mt. Sinai, etc) show that he spares those who maintain righteousness. He's also proven to not be closed-minded about the issue. He spared the city of Ninevah when they responded favorably to Jonah's warning. He spared the nation of Israel countless times despite constant acts of disobedience. He's also forgiven individual gross sinners (King David, Apostle Paul) when they displayed genuine repentance.

Ultimately, you have to accept God as the universal sovereign before you can accept his right to destroy disobedient humans. It's part of the humility that has to go hand-in-hand with faith.

 

[UltimateHitman]

I agree with Jack-Hammer about the man writing it and altering it thing. I think that man wrote it, it has been translated thousands of times, and that what one person interprets from something is not necessarily how somebody else interprets it. I mean, you could have somebody look at an interpretation of an interpretation, put their spin on it, and totally change the original meaning. I tried reading one of those "new age" Bibles one time compared to a King James version and was like "wth?" And I'm no theologian, but there were a couple instances (although I can't remember specifics) that I looked at that version, read the King James version and thought to myself "I don't think that's what was meant in that passage".

I DO think, however, that the basic messages, values, and moral guidelines are inherently right and good. I mean, I would much rather have somebody pattern their life after compassion towards others and respecting others and the land and the animals other than being an angry, don't care about anything or anybody, disrespecting others and their property anarchist.

And in the case of the Great Flood, I take this approach. God even stated after the flood that he would never again take direct action like said flood in the affairs of man. Meaning, to me, that he would let us learn our lesson the hard way. If you go by the story of the Garden of Eden, God told us not to partake of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil. Yet we did. So, I kind of look at it as Him stepping back (much like a parent that loves their child/children yet knows they won't learn anything if they don't let them) and telling us "Ok, you thought you could handle it. Prove it". He knew we wouldn't be able to, and we're proving that point with the direction we're taking this country and the world.

 

[SalvIsWin]

I'm not sure I quite understand your question. I'm assuming you're directing this more towards Christians, otherwise this thread would probably decompose into the debate of whether or not God exists. A portion of your post reminded me a lecture I watched on YouTube, where Dan Dennett talks about David Lewis, and one of his pieces about how any one can worship a God who sentences people to infinite pain and suffering. You can see the whole video in this link, but the portion I am specifically talking about begins at 0:32:30. Here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvJZQwy9dvE .

 

[Xemmy]

If any book were written by the supreme being of the universe, it would be so perfect, that man couldn't deny that it was the word of God. It wouldn't be filled with contridictions or falsehoods- like the Earth being made in 6 days.

Also, if he were truly an "All Loving God" there's no way he would have written ANY of the popular holy books. They're filled with hate mongering, murder in his name over petty crimes- like eating shellfish or working on the sabbath, condoning of slavery, and sexual perversions.

For some reason the Supreme being only has two methods of communication to mankind. Ancient book, and prophet. Surely this isn't the best God could come up with, right?

So, the logical conclusion is that all major holy books are not the divine word of God. Even the hand of man couldn't have fucked up a "Perfect" message as badly as it did. Not if the good Lord cared any. So, unless you believe that Science is a conspiracy, and that God is a vengeful lunatic- The Bible, and any other major holy book, is bullshit.

Fact is- Holy Books are just an ancient way of trying to control societies who couldn't be properly policed. They're obsolete now.

 

[People's Champ]

If any book were written by the supreme being of the universe, it would be so perfect, that man couldn't deny that it was the word of God. It wouldn't be filled with contridictions or falsehoods- like the Earth being made in 6 days.

Also, if he were truly an "All Loving God" there's no way he would have written ANY of the popular holy books. They're filled with hate mongering, murder in his name over petty crimes- like eating shellfish or working on the sabbath, condoning of slavery, and sexual perversions.

For some reason the Supreme being only has two methods of communication to mankind. Ancient book, and prophet. Surely this isn't the best God could come up with, right?

So, the logical conclusion is that all major holy books are not the divine word of God. Even the hand of man couldn't have fucked up a "Perfect" message as badly as it did. Not if the good Lord cared any. So, unless you believe that Science is a conspiracy, and that God is a vengeful lunatic- The Bible, and any other major holy book, is bullshit.

Fact is- Holy Books are just an ancient way of trying to control societies who couldn't be properly policed. They're obsolete now.

Spoken like someone with absolutely no understanding of the Bible. Just reading it doesn't mean you know what it means. Take for example your statement that the Earth was created in 6 days. Just reading it without any study would have you believe the Bible means 6 24hr days. However, with further study, you will see the Bible makes no such claim.

in the begining God created the heavens and the earth.

Bible scholars agree that this verse describes an action seperate from the creative days found in verse 3 on. So, then, according to the Bible's opening statement, the universe, which includes planet Earth, was in existence for an indefinite time before the creative days began. So what the Bible says is not false, because the Bible doesn't give a specific age to our planet or universe. Now hoe long these creative days are is a different matter. They aren't litertally 24 hour days, but that's for another time. The point is, you take everything you read and without doing any real studying, come to your conclusions. With time, I could disprove all your assumptions about the Bible. However, I don't have the time, so now I'll answer the question posed by the OP.

Yes I believe the Bible is inspired by God. While men wrote it, they were inspired by holy spirit to write what God wanted them to write. There are many examples of things written in there that no man could have foretold, such as the detailed account of the fall of Babylon and how it would happen.with careful study of the bible, you could see that it couldn't have been men who wrote the words but rather God who inspired them with what to write.

 

[Xemmy]

Spoken like someone with absolutely no understanding of the Bible. Just reading it doesn't mean you know what it means. Take for example your statement that the Earth was created in 6 days. Just reading it without any study would have you believe the Bible means 6 24hr days. However, with further study, you will see the Bible makes no such claim.

Ofcourse, How could I make that mistake? A day hasn't always meant a single period of sun and/or twenty four hours for as long as the meanings been around. Clearly the bible meant that a day meant years and years!

The bible says "days" directly translated from hebrew. The bible doesn't HAVE to say twenty four hours. "Day" is pretty straight foward. If it had once had meant a much longer time period in the ancient world, you'd have a point. But it never has. Thank you for grasping at a single point that means nothing.

Bible scholars agree that this verse describes an action seperate from the creative days found in verse 3 on. So, then, according to the Bible's opening statement, the universe, which includes planet Earth, was in existence for an indefinite time before the creative days began. So what the Bible says is not false, because the Bible doesn't give a specific age to our planet or universe. Now hoe long these creative days are is a different matter. They aren't litertally 24 hour days, but that's for another time. The point is, you take everything you read and without doing any real studying, come to your conclusions. With time, I could disprove all your assumptions about the Bible. However, I don't have the time, so now I'll answer the question posed by the OP.

Of ALL the points I made, this is the one you chose to argue? I said a quick statement, about God creating the Earth in six days, because a majority of Christians in America believe that. And ftr, people didn't decide to seperate those passages, or stop taking the bible literally until evidence came along saying it was bullshit. Which was about two hundred years ago. Every Creation story told before the Age of Reason was meant to be taken literally. It doesn't matter if your right about the universe being created before the intitial six days. Not even going to bother questioning it. God made the Heavens and the Earth BEFORE the initial six days. So be it. Happy?

So, giving you that- The rest of the creation account is still false. Everything God did during the six days, also took millions of years. Now if I'm not mistaken, days have, throughout human history, been traditionally 24 hours or less. You simply blew that off basically saying, "...trust me. It just isn't what the bible meant."

So with that said, does this even matter? We can go back and forth about "What the Scholars Say The Bible Meant." But who really cares if it was meant to be taken literally or symbolically? Those taken literally are often don't have a shred of evidence to support them. And those taken symbolically usually have a sick moral behind them that society either doesn't use, or frowns upon.

The Gospels are the only thing in that book worth anyting.

 

[Undying777]

Honestly, Yes I do believe it is. Many of its passages from the old testament and new testament have guided me throughout my life. They have gotten me through some hard times.

After a good devotion, I feel ready to take on the day. I feel a peace within my soul that is unexplainable. And I have read many religious scriptures not one gives me the peace the bible does. I don't expect anybody to now what im talking about unless they have felt it themselves

I will admit that the Bible can be confusing at times. But I believe that to be the beauty of it. If we would understand all the passages and stories in one read, we would not feel the need to search further in the scriptures for understanding. The more you seek truth, you will find truth.

As far as the Bible contradicting itself, I have read the bible many times and I have not once come across any clear contradictions. The contradictions of the resurrections of Jesus in the 4 gospels is a subject we have talk about a lot in my Philosophy class. Sure they are all a little different from one another. However, the main point of the resurrection is the same. Jesus died on the cross, and then resurrected. Its all about perspective and faith.

As far as God creating the Earth in seven days. I don't confined God to our understanding of what time is. God has given us time for our benefit not his own. To us a day is 24 hours. To God maybe it a thousand years. Then again, i do believe God can create the world in 7 real human days. Heck, I think he could do it in 1 minute if he wanted to. lol

 

[Барбоса]

Setting aside the whole arguments about the existence of God and the contradictions in the Bible (something which I have written about more than I care to remember in the CL never mind RL), if I did believe in God I would still find it difficult to believe that the Bible was the "Word of God" solely because of what I know about the actual bringing together of both the Old and New Testaments.

Monotheistic Judaism took centuries to appear after the Mosaic escape from Egypt, probably traced to the Babylonian Captivity, where the Jews needed something to keep themselves unified in their captivity, which did not end until the conquest of Babylon by Cyrus the Great. The actual Old Testament probably did not appear until the 5th or 4th century BCE.

Similarly the New Testament appeared up to a century after the crucifixion of Jesus of Nazareth with books left out (Gospel of Thomas being one famous example) and later claims of infallibility despite contradictory timelines of the same week long events. A sceptic would ask why it took so long to publish what was meant to be an eyewitness account of the last week of the Lord and Saviour and suggest that it seemed suspicious that it started to appear after all the eyewitnesses would be dead..

Surely if both were the "Word of God" they would have been revealed to man in the same mystical way as the 14 (not 10) Commandments were revealed to Moses on Mount Sinai rather than revealed over large amounts of time for man to interpret and corrupt in his own way through politics, propaganda and human translation error. Also if they were the "Word of God" why were they revealed to such a small number of individuals when all men are supposedly equal?

If the teachings in the Bible were ever the "Word of God," He needed to employ a bigger and better editing team.

 

[Remix]

To get this out of the way, I'm an atheist so whatever holy book anybody is talking about I'm not going to believe it to be the work of God. However, I'm going to do my best to look at this without taking that into consideration.

The first reason that it is unlikely for the bible to be the litteral word of god is that, lets face it the book's damn old which presents a number of issues to its reliability. The first is that it's been translated time and time again. From Hebrew to Greek to Latin to old English, to middle English to modern English. Run a paragraph through an online translater and see of what you get out of it is the same as what you put in. Chances are that the meaning will have changed, it may be only a minor change or it could be a major one.

In addition to this, the bible has been through countless totalitarian regimes. How likely is it that none of the various dictators that have existed through history haven't had their bible writers change parts of the bible to justify their opinions? I mean all it would take for Pope Tyranical I to change the Bible would be to tell all the scribes "You know the where Jesus weds two men, saying that their love is as pure as the love between a man and his wife? That never happened, got it?" There are entire books of the bible which have (arguably) been cut out for various reasons (such as the Book of Judas which was cut on the grounds that it was of questionable legitimacy and makes Judas out to be the good guy).

Thirdly, how do we know when these things were written down? It could have been a few months or it could have been a few generations afterwards. How often have you seen rumors change as the story gets repeated? Hell, it's something most of us esperience at school to varying degrees, now multiply that by a factor of 10,000 and you've got a fair estimation of what'll happen when a story gets passed down through the generations. Bits will be forgotten, bits will be made up, parts will get embellished even if the gist of the story remains the same. Take the Illiad for instance. It's incredably likely that there was a Greek invasion of Troy (which was found thanks to parts of the Illiad) but how likely is it that gods and men were fighting as one? Hell, the character of Achiles may have been invented to show the weakness of the armor used by the Greeks of the time.

Finally, the bible is supposedly all written (or at least dictated by) one person. Analysing the text has revealed this to be far from the case. It's been written by several different people, probably all at different times. for the bible to be the litteral word of God despite appearing to have been written by several different people is contradictory.

In my opinion, the Bible isn't something that should be taken litterally even if there is a God. After all, he gave us free will right? That means we're free to live by our own interpretation of his words doesn't it?

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Im sure what im about to say will be a rehash of what others have said, but with much less effort.

For a lot of it, yea, it probably is. For many other parts of it, no, probably not, becuase it was written by human beings, and human beings will always serve their own best interests. So they use something that has leverage based in legitimacy to further their own interests and ideals to get people to do what they want. Hello.