The AWA Heavyweight Championship

[Henry Hill]

So i was looking at the main page, and read the top ten list of greatest wrestlers never to win a world title. I agree with pretty much everyone on there, but something caught me. Curt Hennig/Mr. Perfect was listed, and while i lament that he absolutely should've been a World Champ In WWE or WCW, he did hold The AWA world title once for a year. So my question is, does the AWA Heavyweight Championship count as a major title reign? To me it does, because even though there was the ridiculous controversy with Hulk Hogan and Nick Bockwinkel trading the title back and forth, it was still a major contested championship and names such as Bockwinkel, Verne Gagne, Fritz Von Erich, Larry Zybyzko and Gene Kiniski held the title, and it traces to Pat O'Connor's NWA title reign. At the time, the AWA title was a top three title, so to me Hennig's reign should be recognized as a major world title reign.

 

[WinstonDeckard]

I think it's just another case of this website not doing it's homework. I hardly think that Paglino was questioning the validity of the AWA world title, I just think he's lazy.

 

[hugeheffner]

I was a huge fan of the AWA growing up. Even though some of my favorite wrestlers worked there in the late 80's (Hennig, Lawler, Zbyszko), it was by then a shell of it's former self. It's main roster had been depleted by both the WWf and Crocket Promotions. It was by no means one of the "Big 3" anymore. It was more like ECW or ROH, and in some ways like TNA. Hennig was promised the belt to keep him from jumpng to WWF and the only reason Zbxszko held the belt is he is, or was, married to Verne Gagne's daughter.

 

[Henry Hill]

I think it's just another case of this website not doing it's homework. I hardly think that Paglino was questioning the validity of the AWA world title, I just think he's lazy.

This wasn't actually Paglino, but a WZ readers submit sort of thing, but still I think its very interesting that many WZ readers aren't familiar with AWA title reigns OR don't find it to be a legit world title reign. To me, as i said in an earlier post, due to the history of the title and what it one meant, it counts as a major world title.

 

[Dspiracy]

I noticed one thing about a certain superstar as well. Piper. Piper held the WCW World Title after he put Hollywood Hogan to sleep. Piper held the title.

Nevermind, he defeated Hogan in a non-title match at Starcade 96, but when he actually fought Hogan for the title at Superbrawl VII, he got hit with brass knuckles. My bad.

 

[PEP3]

By the time Hennig held the AWA World Heavyweight title, it was indeed a shell of its former self. However, as someone very familiar with pro wrestling at that time period, I can assure you the AWA title was still considered a major World title if for no other reason than its rich and storied history.

In fact, when Jerry Lawler defeated Hennig for the title, the pro wrestling media made a huge deal of it. After all his many, many years of ruling Memphis, and going to time-limit draws and disqualification victories over guys like NWA World Champ Harley Race, "The King" finally won a legit World Title.

Even though the AWA title was in a state of serious decline when Hennig won it, he and then Lawler, who defended the belt against Kerry Von Erich throughout his Memphis territory and the WCCW (later USWA) in Texas, some new life was breathed into it.

By the time the AWA finally put the strap on Larry Zybysko, who won it for the first time with an extraordinarily weak battle royal victory over Tom Zenk, that was all gone. "The Living Legend's" reigns only lasted as long as they did because AWA barely put on any shows by that time.

Had Verne Gagne only allowed the organization to grow with the times and rewarded wrestlers who were extremely over with the fans if not the most technically sound (like Hogan and, later, Scott Hall) AWA might have actually survived. Once again, another federation fell to bad booking and looking to the past instead of the future.

It should be noted that one of the easiest ways to determine whether or not a title is actually recognized as a "World Title" or not is use Pro Wrestling Illustrated and its sister publications as a gauge. They have been very selective in assigning true "World Championship" status to various organizations' titles.

For example, the original ECW title was never considered a World Title. However, NWA/WCW, WWF and AWA were. Later they assigned the ECW title "World Title" status. Now they also recognize TNA as a "World Title," I believe.

Organizations like World Wrestling Council in Puerto Rico, World Class Championship Wrestling (WCCW in Dallas) and United States Wrestling Association (USWA, in Memphis) were all major regional promotions which never achieved World Title status.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

The AWA World Heavyweight Title is a prestigious belt. Despite the lack of respect for the belt when Hennig won it, it was still considered a major world title and was recognized as such. Stan Hansen was the AWA World Champion at one time. And as PEP3 said, when Jerry Lawler finally won a world title, many wrestling media outlets made a huge deal out of Lawler winning that elusive World Championship. In my opinon, Hennig is considered one of the most underrated wrestlers to ever step foot in a wrestling ring.

And as far as Lawler's concerned, the reason for his 'close calls' was mainly due to him not being a worthy champion around the world. Lawler was huge in Memphis, but not really known anywhere besides there. Race, Bockwinkel, and Flair all ran through Memphis with their belts and rarely won clean in Memphis over Lawler, but that didn't mean Lawler deserved a major title run at the time.

But Hennig and the AWA World Heavyweight belt are underrated and prestigious and should be recognized as such.

 

[Lancer]

The AWA Title was definitely a prestigious belt in its heyday. It was a sad thing to see Curt Hennig and Nick Bockwinkel putting on clinics for the belt in front of 200 people...when Vince McMahon was selling out arenas with guys like Brutus Beefcake and Outback Jack. Anyone remember Outback Jack? Didn't think so.

Anyway, I think PWI's only criteria for a belt to be considered a "World" Title is for it to be defended on TV or in a major promotion (sarcasm). The NWA belt is still active and is constantly trading hands all over the world, yet it has not been recognized as a world title since it was used in TNA.

This wasn't actually Paglino, but a WZ readers submit sort of thing, but still I think its very interesting that many WZ readers aren't familiar with AWA title reigns OR don't find it to be a legit world title reign. To me, as i said in an earlier post, due to the history of the title and what it one meant, it counts as a major world title.

I agree here. If any World Title can be judged on its history alone, then the AWA World Title definitely qualifies. It has more history than both WWE's World Heavyweight Championship and TNA's World belt.

 

[Shadowmancer]

Actually the definition of a world title was that it had to be defended or fought over on three different continents to qualify. Generally speaking the countries ended up being the US, Japan and a country in Europe.

The AWA title suffers from the fact that WWE revisionist history doesn't play up the importance that the title held within the industry, this results in a raft of those that are lazy and don't check facts because WWE says one thing they can't be bothered fact checking. It is just pure laziness. I read the list and it is a bit of a joke anyway.

 

[PiperUndertakerStoneCold]

Once the AWA stars left for the WWF in large numbers, the belt quickly lost its value. So in short, it was a premium title to have in Nick Bockwinkel's day, but not Rick Martel's day, in which the overwhelming majority of the top talent has already left.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

As far as what makes a "world" championship, it's entirely subjective. Any company can label their main event singles and tag titles "world" titles. Lots of independents all over the world do it and while I don't see those as having any legitimate credibility, my perception might be different than someone elses. Nobody can legally tell a company or governing body that they can't, no matter which world titles PWI recognizes.

As to the question of the AWA World Heavyweight Championship, it was pretty prestigious back in its heyday of the 60s and 70s but really just started to run out of steam by the 80s. The AWA itself was the first NWA affiliated company to break from the NWA. I think it started out as the NWA Minneapolis Wrestling & Boxing Club and ran shows out of the same general area as the AWA would later. Verne Gagne was a big star during the 50s due to a lot of exposure he received on the old DuMont Network and the AWA would've probably not lasted without him to give the company and title some legitimacy.

I think one reason, however, why the AWA title doesn't get as much respect as some of the other major world titles could be because of Verne himself. Verne Gagne, like a lot of promoters that also happened to be wrestlers, liked to be the big star of his company. Nothing wrong with that and Verne's audience liked what he brought at the time. But, over time and looking back on everything, if Vern didn't hold the title then he himself decided who got it. Verne Gagne was the head of the AWA, could keep the title for however long he wanted it or always picked who carried it. The fact that Verne was a performer and promoter at the same time puts a different spin on the AWA title. In the NWA, no single person decided who would win the title and, in the WWWF, Vince, Sr. wasn't a wrestler. Some hail Verne as one of the all time greats and that's fine and dandy, but anybody can be a 10 time world champion when you're the person that owns the company. I think that's kind of tainted the AWA title for some.

 

[PEP3]

Once the AWA stars left for the WWF in large numbers, the belt quickly lost its value. So in short, it was a premium title to have in Nick Bockwinkel's day, but not Rick Martel's day, in which the overwhelming majority of the top talent has already left.

Considering Bockwinkel held the belt both before and after Martel, you might want to make some clarifications. Besides that fact, I simply disagree with your assessment that the AWA World Title had lost luster by Martel's reign.

By most standards, the AWA World Title was still quite prestigious when Martel held it. In fact, Martel faced Flair at one point in a World Title vs. World Title showdown, with the NWA recognizing the AWA belt as a legit "World Title." Martel put on some great matches against challengers including "Gorgeous" Jimmy Garvin (say what you will about the man, but he was over big-time as a heel!), Bockwinkel, King Tonga (Haku), and Stan Hansen (who eventually beat him for the belt).

To determine the value of the AWA World title during the Martel era, it might help to determine how well-received other AWA titles were at the time. During Rick's run atop AWA, the tag titles were held by the undisputed hottest tag team in the industry, Pro Wrestling Illustrated "Tag Team of the Year" The Road Warriors. Maybe you've heard of them?

Any effort to say Martel's title was less of a "World title" would be to say the RW's tag belts didn't count as "World titles," and I don't think anyone would try to make that argument.