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The American Congress....

FromTheSouth

You don't want it with me.
gets worse and worse every day.

Up until the 1990's, Congress was a place of great debate. It was a place where leaders were made, made men ascended, and the ascended became the heroes of this nation. Once the 90's came, partisan politics became the lay of the land. It has truly been a shame. Whereas someone like Ted Kennedy was able to work across the aisle with Trent Lott for decades, even though they were staunchly situated on their side, now the idea of cooperation is out the window. There used to be common ground, and now, instead of being known as a maverick, a man or woman with a view that opposes the party line is made out to be a traitor.

Look at the skewering of Joe Liberman. The man has been a faithful Democratic Senator for longer than many of us have been alive, and yet, his moderate views led him to support John McCain, and the leftist machine destroyed him in a primary. When he ran as an independent, he found enough support form both sides of the political spectrum in his state to win. He is a true moderate, almost libertarian, Senator, and his populist views are demonized by the right and ostracized by the left. It's as if no one cares about the people's opinion.

Furthermore, the partisan bickering has led to more process stories than issue stories. The gladiatorial combat in chambers has become more interesting, and more prevalent, than the sharing of ideals. It's always been said that the two things you never wanted to see made were laws and sausages. Thank God sausage has kept that in mind, because watching laws made has become painful, and both sides are to blame. The left is trying so hard to ram legislation down our throats without disclosing particulars that the people demand transparency. The right is fighting so hard beat the left that the people demand restraint. Instead of doing what the people want, which is to release the terms of the bill and then to allow both sides to intelligently debate the merits of the bill, we find both sides finding minute details of the case to call each other fascists, racists, Nazi's, and a plethora of other names that has completely distracted from the case at hand. This healthcare bill has gone from a good idea that needed tweaking to becoming such a contentious point that a third party is rising from the dust to appeal to the people. America is, and always will be a center right country. This doesn't mean that Republicans have an advantage, it just means that tradition dictates that the people should be the agents of social change, and not the government. The government in America is elected by the people, and should be taking the wishes of the people and putting them into bill form. The people should be dictating the course of events in the nation. Instead we get a congress telling us what we want and, even worse, the judicial branch making laws from the bench by pointing to unclear, esoteric passages of the Constitution taken completely out of context.

Whereas the US Congress was the place where compromise brought about the social change the people demanded, it is now the place where good ideas go to die; collateral damage in the war between parties fighting for power instead of fighting for the people.
 
Absolutely 110% agree with you here FTS. You and I are renowned for having opposing political beliefs but being able to put them aside to be friends, so I think we have a nice little perspective on this particularly, but my god how the American congress has become a joke. More than that though, it's been a joke for decades, much longer than the early 90s timeframe you gave it. The 80s was a terrible decade for bipartisanship with Reagan in office and the number of lobbyists shooting up to the moon. By the time the 90s came around I agree, Congress has been a joke. Sure, you still have a few good men and women serving public office, ones that you'd be proud to vote for who actually DO care about real change. However those people are so few and far between these days that all we're left with is people who want to get into politics as a career, and when you get into politics purely as a career without your heart in it, you're a puppet and I have no respect for you.

Although I'm obviously a very left-leaning individual, I think you know that I don't really have respect for much of any of the Democratic party. It's been a joke for quite some time now frankly, and with the recent passing of Ted Kennedy it's only going to go further downhill. You know I dislike Nancy Pelosi just as much as I do Republican senators and speakers. So I like to think I'm bipartisan, I've supported Democrats, Republicans, and Independents in the past.

Somewhere though at the turn of this decade is where it got really fucked up though. Once Bush was in office, it was like all of the collective angst the country had been bottling up since Vietnam exploded on the left and everyone just wanted to proclaim the Iraq/Afghanistan Wars the new Vietnam and try to start a cultural revolution similar to the one in the 60s, only it didn't really work, just like it didn't in the 60s, because we still went to war with those countries and we're still in those countries fighting today. Crazy to see me criticizing the left, right FTS? Ha.

But now my friend this brings me to the right's reaction to the election of Barack Obama, which quite frankly is an example of the worst partisanship in recent political memory, and you know that very well yourself being a staunch critic of the man. But when I see people proclaiming the man is a socialist and wants to ruin our country or has a deep seeded hatred for white people....I'm sorry, but you're fucking stupid. Your partisanship and towing to the party line has officially gotten in the way of your ability to think clearly and without bias at that point. Which isn't to say you're an idiot if you criticizez Obama, not at all, I've got quite a few complaints about his presidency thus far as well. But atleast be fucking accurate with what you say, don't resort to the same sensationalism that you heckled the left for using when Bush was in office and he was called a fascist or a Nazi. Sensationalism has no place in politics.

I don't know if we can fix the state we're in right now FTS. I really don't. We need a leader who can bridge those party lines truly in the name of bipartisanship and helping this country evolve into the 21st century, and I'm not quite sure if Obama is going to be the man to do that. I'm not sure if any man would be capable of pulling off such a huge feat at this time.

Good thread man. Been awhile since we've waxed political and whatnot.
 
Absolutely 110% agree with you here FTS. You and I are renowned for having opposing political beliefs but being able to put them aside to be friends, so I think we have a nice little perspective on this particularly, but my god how the American congress has become a joke. More than that though, it's been a joke for decades, much longer than the early 90s timeframe you gave it. The 80s was a terrible decade for bipartisanship with Reagan in office and the number of lobbyists shooting up to the moon.

Yeah, but are you going to catch me saying anything bad about Reagan? :lmao:

You're probably right. You can even go back to Nixon for the end of bipartisanship. Watergate and audio recorders were the first salvos in this war of ideology.

By the time the 90s came around I agree, Congress has been a joke. Sure, you still have a few good men and women serving public office, ones that you'd be proud to vote for who actually DO care about real change. However those people are so few and far between these days that all we're left with is people who want to get into politics as a career, and when you get into politics purely as a career without your heart in it, you're a puppet and I have no respect for you.

I agree 111% here. There are some good people left in the Senate. McCain, Byrd, Liberman......ummm.....yeah, that's about it.

Although I'm obviously a very left-leaning individual,

Understatement of the year. :)

I think you know that I don't really have respect for much of any of the Democratic party. It's been a joke for quite some time now frankly, and with the recent passing of Ted Kennedy it's only going to go further downhill. You know I dislike Nancy Pelosi just as much as I do Republican senators and speakers. So I like to think I'm bipartisan, I've supported Democrats, Republicans, and Independents in the past.

I've voted for Democrats too. I am not the partisan I appear to be, but I get stuck defending the party as a whole, so I do. My main problem with the right is their refusal to recognize that people have different values. I think values should play a part in law making. But people value privacy, and the right seems to forget that sometimes. I think the left tends to forget that people value choice sometimes too, and that's my main problem with them. I think the right wants the government to run people's lives and the left wants government to control people's money, and both of them of fucking stupid for not finding some kind of compromise.

Somewhere though at the turn of this decade is where it got really fucked up though. Once Bush was in office, it was like all of the collective angst the country had been bottling up since Vietnam exploded on the left and everyone just wanted to proclaim the Iraq/Afghanistan Wars the new Vietnam and try to start a cultural revolution similar to the one in the 60s, only it didn't really work, just like it didn't in the 60s, because we still went to war with those countries and we're still in those countries fighting today. Crazy to see me criticizing the left, right FTS? Ha.

I get what you're saying. I think that the kids who had parents who did not see the money trickle down during Reagan turned against Bush because they saw Reagan's fourth and fifth terms. The problem is that that money did trickle down to them, it just took until Clinton was President, but this "I want it now" mentality kept people from understanding that it takes time and tweaks for any economic system's effects to be known.
But now my friend this brings me to the right's reaction to the election of Barack Obama, which quite frankly is an example of the worst partisanship in recent political memory,

Since the last President, or since blowjob-gate.
and you know that very well yourself being a staunch critic of the man.

I honestly wouldn't like him if he were a white Republican who looked like Hayden Panettiere.

But when I see people proclaiming the man is a socialist and wants to ruin our country or has a deep seeded hatred for white people....I'm sorry, but you're fucking stupid.

Maybe a little socialist, but you don't put yourself through the wringer of a national campaign if you want to destroy the country.
Your partisanship and towing to the party line has officially gotten in the way of your ability to think clearly and without bias at that point. Which isn't to say you're an idiot if you criticizez Obama, not at all, I've got quite a few complaints about his presidency thus far as well. But atleast be fucking accurate with what you say, don't resort to the same sensationalism that you heckled the left for using when Bush was in office and he was called a fascist or a Nazi. Sensationalism has no place in politics.

I don't know if this is addressed to me or the right as a whole. I don't like Obama for a lot of reasons both politically and procedurally. I don't like his appointments beyond Hillary Clinton, whose bad attitude is perfect for Secretary of State. I don't like how much he wants government to do, and I think that he can achieve many of his goals through a more streamlined, efficient government. He seems intent on making the bureaucracy bigger. That means higher taxes to pay more government salaries.
I don't know if we can fix the state we're in right now FTS. I really don't. We need a leader who can bridge those party lines truly in the name of bipartisanship and helping this country evolve into the 21st century, and I'm not quite sure if Obama is going to be the man to do that. I'm not sure if any man would be capable of pulling off such a huge feat at this time.

It doesn't have to be immediate, but one or two common ideas can do a lot to lead the way. Most laws are made off of deals. If we can get one issue that appeals to both sides, there will be enough favors owed to get more legislation passed. It seems like the right is intent on punishing the left for their treatment of Bush. This is wrong, and saying "They did it to us" is symbolic of the immaturity that seems to lead both parties.

Good thread man. Been awhile since we've waxed political and whatnot.

Large minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people.
 
Congress's approval's been the lowest ever since Bush has been in office. I contribute that to the lack of bipartisanship in not getting things done. you can look at the polling numbers of Rassmusen, Gallops, and Quinipiac polls (this coming from a traditional former right leaning democrat now independent). Congress has simply lost touch with the American people and its atrocious. Why are they debating a health care bill that they HAVEN'T EVEN BOTHERED TO READ while American's continue to loose jobs.
 

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