The 90-Day No Compete Clause: Genius, or Damaging?

[It's Damn Real!]

We've all heard of it – the infamous "90-day no compete clause" (which I'll be shortening to the NDNCC for this discussion) – a contractual clause that limits wrestlers who sign (with the WWE specifically) from competing with rival companies (presuming of course that they are televised nationally or are video taped) for upward of 90 days following their release. But how much legal power is behind it truly? Always loud-at-the-mouth Jim Cornette doesn't seem to think very much. When asked about the possibility of seeing Bryan Danielson return to ROH following his recent release from the WWE, JC had this to say about the situation and the WWE's 90-day no compete clause:

"I don't understand it. As to whether Bryan will be in Ring of Honor, of course we would love to have him back, and of course/on the same token, since he has just been released, he's obviously under one of their non-compete clauses, which I would love to someone challenge one of those in court one day. It's just another example of 'We're gonna go to the zoo and scoop up a handful of monkey feces, and we're gonna throw it in the face of every wrestling fan,' because we will continue to give you all of this child-like, inane, inconsequential pablum we give you on television every week, but when we accidentally hit the somebody that people want to see, we're gonna screw that up as quickly as possible. It's ridiculous. I would love to see Bryan Danielson back in Ring of Honor."

A quick look into history and one might infer that the very birth of the NDNCC/NCC came following Lex Luger's infamous "ship jump" back in 1995 when he walked onto the set of Nitro's premiere the day of his contract expiration with the WWE. Just eight days prior had appeared at their SummerSlam PPV, and the story goes that his contract ran out at midnight that Monday, and because of a legal loophole he was able to jump ship without anyone at the WWE even realizing it, despite being in talks to renegotiate his contract with them at the time. That legal loophole was quite obviously sought a solution for after a number of Vince's talents at the time followed suit over the years including Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, Randy Savage, Curt Hennig and Bret Hart among others. Not all of the aforementioned jumped the way Luger did overnight, obviously, but regardless each at some point in time left their former employer in the WWE for "greener pastures" in the WCW on the drop of a dime, and Vince couldn't do a thing but sit back and watch the talents he helped create begin to make more and more money for the competition that was trying to axe him.

Fast forward to the present day and McMahon seems to have found the solution to that loophole that so many of his former talents slipped through back during the Monday Night Wars by requiring a NCC of some type (the amount of time varies depending on the performer from what I understand) be included in any contract given to a WWE on-air performer. He seemingly guaranteed that a Luger-type event would never happen again on his watch, and furthermore protected his neck to an even greater degree by forcibly removing whatever talents he let go of from immediate relevance for upward of 3 months following their release from his company – an act many perceive as industry terrorism, despite it's accolades for being an ingenius business decision. As anyone here can tell, three months in the wrestling world can be a very, very long time, which can effectively write out the impact (no pun intended) of said performer were they to debut in a rival company once that NCC did in fact expire.

All of this, of course, begs a number of questions. While it's not possible for any of us to truly understand the legal ramifications of the NDNCC or NCC's in general (seeing as we don't actually work for the WWE and aren't privy to that much information regarding the structure of their contracts), does it/do they still hold ]some value to the industry as a whole, or is that value specific only to the WWE and it's ability to save face following the release of one of their former talents? Secondarily, if they are industry damaging, how badly does it affect the ability of the industry as a whole or rival companies to utilize former WWE talents whose contracts included a NDNCC/NCC?

--

That said, it's Q&A Time!

• What are your thoughts on the 90-day no-compete clause, or no-compete clauses in general? Do you feel they benefit the industry as a whole, or are they more of a fail safe for the WWE to protect it's neck when releasing would-be former talents?

• If you consider them industry damaging, to what extent to you think they prevent talents from jumping ship to maximize their full potential? Is it possible talents can still after waiting out the duration of their contracts and still fulfill at least some of that same impact they might have had they shown up on their own accord?

• Do you think a company will ever challenge the WWE on the validity of the NDNCC or a NCC of any type by having a talent debut prior to it's expiration, and what do you think the legal ramifications of such an act would be?

 

[klunderbunker]

From Vince's perspective they're genius. He's a businessman and is doing whatever it takes to protect his business. When Luger showed up on Nitro back in 95, it was huge. The same was true for the Outsiders. Vince got burned several times on this, so he decided to change the rules and make sure it didn't happen again. There's not a thing wrong with that at all either. Three months in wrestling is an eternity, so waiting that long is going to cripple any momentum a wrestler has. It's like cutting his legs off and waiting on them to grow back. In short, it's a brilliant move that is perfectly fine and very smart.

As for the wrestlers yes it's damaging, but that's the nature of having one company with more or less a monopoly. No one held a gun to their heads and said sign this or be shot. They signed a legal document knowing full well about the clause. That's not Vince's fault. He made the rules and the other guys signed them. As far as challenging them in court, I'd love to see someone try. It's perfectly legal to have them do this and it's not saying they can't work. They just can't work on something that is released on DVD or Television. There's nothing illegal about that at all and there's nothing they can do about it.

 

[Alex]

Business wise it's brilliant. If one of my top performers didn't want to resign their contract and turned up on a rival promotion the day after their contract expired, I'd be pissed, I'd be the one who put them forward as a contender and the rivals use my hard work to their advantage. So letting them wait to get their hands on my former wrestler would be good as that gives me time to find a replacement for them.

From a wrestler's view it can be seen as good and bad. Good in the sense they get to relax for a while and heal nagging injuries yet bad because if they do go to a rival promotion they won't make as big an impact (pun intended) as they could have.

 

[MWats]

• What are your thoughts on the 90-day no-compete clause, or no-compete clauses in general? Do you feel they benefit the industry as a whole, or are they more of a fail safe for the WWE to protect it's neck when releasing would-be former talents?

Of course it's industry damaging in a sense, but you can't blame WWE for implementing it. For example, if Daniel Bryan was legit fired, imagine the impact (no pun intended) he would have if he showed up live Thursday night in the ring bashing and talking shit about the WWE, after spitting on the face of their company and destroying their ring just two nights earlier. It would give TNA waaay too much momentum, in WWE's eyes.

• If you consider them industry damaging, to what extent to you think they prevent talents from jumping ship to maximize their full potential? Is it possible talents can still after waiting out the duration of their contracts and still fulfill at least some of that same impact they might have had they shown up on their own accord?

Anderson debuted with TNA a good eight months after he was fired. If he had been able to sign with TNA right after it had happened, he would have been able to bash Orton, WWE, Vince, and basically give what every wrestling journalist wanted (and still wants) away on live, free TV. That would have = ratings, and WWE just can't afford to give the competition that type of lead.

• Do you think a company will ever challenge the WWE on the validity of the NDNCC or a NCC of any type by having a talent debut prior to it's expiration, and what do you think the legal ramifications of such an act would be?

When they sign a contract stating that they want to compete within the WWE, they agree to that clause, so no, I don't think anyone will ever be able to challenge that.

 

[CH David]

• What are your thoughts on the 90-day no-compete clause, or no-compete clauses in general? Do you feel they benefit the industry as a whole, or are they more of a fail safe for the WWE to protect it's neck when releasing would-be former talents?

I don't mind it. The wrestlers that I enjoy watching are still there, and most likely won't be released unless they really start sucking and the WWE doesn't think they can perform anymore. It is definitely a positive for the WWE, would you want somebody to bash your company on tv? I think not. It sucks for wrestlers themselves because they can't just show up on pay per views or television because of it. But they can do indy shows that aren't going to air, as far as I know.

Vince did this as a great business move. You can't fault him either, because of how the '90s played out. Luger debuts after Summerslam, The Outsiders debuted, and it almost cost Vince his company. Any good businessman learns from there past mistakes. The name of the game is making money. Vince is making sure his continues to be profitable, and doesn't want the competition to make money off a recent castoff. Makes good business sense.

• If you consider them industry damaging, to what extent to you think they prevent talents from jumping ship to maximize their full potential? Is it possible talents can still after waiting out the duration of their contracts and still fulfill at least some of that same impact they might have had they shown up on their own accord?

It certainly cuts off a wrestler's momentum if they are riding a hot streak and get released out of the blue. KB did say that three months is a long time for a wrestler. It kills momentum, but you know what, they knew what they were getting into, you deal with it. Don't sign it if you don't think you will make it.

• Do you think a company will ever challenge the WWE on the validity of the NDNCC or a NCC of any type by having a talent debut prior to it's expiration, and what do you think the legal ramifications of such an act would be?

Are you asking if the 90 Day No Compete Clause is valid? Are other companies going to see if they make due on their contracts? What are you trying to ask with this? Companies would be foolish to have talent debut prior to the end of the clause because Vince would sue them through the roof for breach of contract. Any big company in the world would be smart to have this. Radio stations even have this. You don't want someone who makes you money, to make a rival company money doing the same thing.

 

[Ferbian]

• What are your thoughts on the 90-day no-compete clause, or no-compete clauses in general? Do you feel they benefit the industry as a whole, or are they more of a fail safe for the WWE to protect it's neck when releasing would-be former talents?

As KB already noted, it benefits Vince McMahon, and it is truly a genius move, Vince makes sure that the competition can't steal the benefits of the amazing love that Jeff Hardy for example had in WWE prior to his leave, only to return to TNA, while it was long after his 90 days clause expired, TNA getting their hands on him a week after perhaps could've proved to be a change.

I personally think it's a brilliant idea, because of above mentioned, it kills any potential to harvest the popularity formed by another promotion, or well at least harvest what's left of the momentum from when he parted ways with the company.

And I do generally feel that it is something that any promotion should very well consider implementing, while it certainly does not benefit the talents in the situation, it benefits any of the given promotions, imagine if A.J Styles decided to leave TNA for WWE, if A.J has the possibility of leaving TNA on thursday, only to pop up on WWE on Monday, that would generate a decent blow to TNA and benefit WWE most likely.

• If you consider them industry damaging, to what extent to you think they prevent talents from jumping ship to maximize their full potential? Is it possible talents can still after waiting out the duration of their contracts and still fulfill at least some of that same impact they might have had they shown up on their own accord?

While I do not believe it is industry damaging as much as it is damaging to the wrestlers momentum, I do not believe that it prevents the talent from performing at the same level they did when they left, it gives them a chance to take a break from an otherwise busy schedule if they're coming from WWE, heal potential injuries, and stay in shape through in-ring practice.

Just like Bryan Danielson who was offered a spot on WWE's main roster, he decided to go work off ring-rust, something any wrestler can do while on their 90 days no compete clause.

• Do you think a company will ever challenge the WWE on the validity of the NDNCC or a NCC of any type by having a talent debut prior to it's expiration, and what do you think the legal ramifications of such an act would be?

I do not believe anybody would be so stupid to break the law for the sake of improving ratings on one or two nights, ratings that has the potential to be forever lost judging by the impact that the suing will most likely follow.

If someone debuted in TNA day a week after he left WWE, WWE would sue TNA and cause quite a blow to the company I could imagine, due to the fact that Vince is such a mind for business and dominance on top, that he would do anything to bring TNA to their knees if this happened.

 

[Reddannihilation]

• Do you think a company will ever challenge the WWE on the validity of the NDNCC or a NCC of any type by having a talent debut prior to it's expiration, and what do you think the legal ramifications of such an act would be?

While your qquestion refers to a company, I believe in 2005 when Lesnar's NFL idea flopped and he considered wrestling in New Japan he had a 5-year no compete that he managed to have removed due to it being considered outlandish and unfair. Granted the 90 day ones aren't really at risk of the same thing because in the time it would take for the clause to be removed legally it'd already be up before the courts could decide.

 

[SavageTaker]

The no-compete clause is a great thing in Vince’s mind and I would have to agree with him here if I were a promoter myself. Why would I want wrestlers leaving my company to go out with momentum and immediately join some other company? That momentum would carry over and create positives for other companies (such as ratings increase, e.t.c.), which is something I wouldn’t want if I’m looking into being the industry leader.

Thankfully though, I’m merely a fan and I don’t have to worry about anything but enjoying the product that is presented to me. So as a fan, I do not like the NCC in some cases and don’t care for it in others. An example of me not liking it would be the recent release of Bryan Danielson (if it is indeed legit). I actually liked what I was seeing and my opinion on him totally changed. However, since I don’t keep up with the Indies, I won’t be able to see him perform in TNA (if they were to sign him) or some other company within 3 months. But when it comes to guys like Carlito and Shelton Benjamin, I couldn’t care less if they had a NCC or not because I’m not interested in watching them wrestle.

Overall, it’s a good thing for you if you’re a promoter as it protects your spot in the industry but for fans it could be a bad thing if they only watch the wrestling shows on TV since they would have to wait a few months to see whatever wrestlers get released.

 

[Davi323]

No compete clauses were not invented by Vince McMahon. I have worked at a few companies that made me sign what was essentially a no compete clause, stating that I couldn't work for a direct competitor for X amount of time after my employment ceased (Usually 2 years). It's a well established legal method to protect trade secrets. In this case, it would be protecting the WWE's efforts towards building up that wrestler. If wrestlers were allowed to wrestle for a competitor immediately after being released, they would simply be taking all of the popularity and name recognition that the WWE spent the time and energy to create. With a 90 day no compete clause, that wrestler kind of falls out of the short term memory of fans, because they can't see them wrestle for 3 months. After a while, you kind of forget about them, because you got used to watching without them. Once that happens, the new company can't simply take the WWE wrestler, and continue their push, they have to start over. There is still going to be some name recognition carry over, but not like if there was no 90 day no compete clause. Basically, it prevents a different company from profiting from the WWE's marketing efforts.

There is also a damn good reason no wrestling company has ever truly violated it. Because the WWE spends more on lawyer retention than most companies make all year. Since the OP is a huge TNA fan, lets use TNA as an example. If they were to violate the no compete clause by signing, oh, say Brian Danielson, and he shows up on Impact next week. How fast do you think it would take WWE lawyers to sue the fuck out of TNA and Brian Danielson for contract breach? Next day, probably. Brian Danielson would certainly be guilty of a contract breach, but what about TNA? Chances are, Danielson would be required to tell TNA about the no compete clause, and TNA would be required by their lawyers to inquire about if one exists. Before Danielson could ever appear on TV for TNA, TNA would have to be informed of the no compete clause, because if they allowed him to wrestle without ever finding out, they would be up shit creek without a paddle. If you face a potential legal threat from someone with a bazillion more dollars they can spend on legal costs, you have to make sure all your "i"s are dotted, and your "t"s are crossed. It would be gross negligence not to. So, TNA would have to be informed about any potential obstacle that would prevent them from introducing Brian Danielson before he ever appeared on TNA TV. But, what would happen if they knew about it, and ignored it? That my friends, is called tampering. An outside company cannot attempt to interfere with the legally binding contract of an employee or former employee of another company. If TNA were to willfully ignore the WWE no compete clause on Danielson, the WWE would sue TNA for tampering, would win, and probably cause TNA to infer enough legal liability so that both Spike TV and Panda Energy said fuck this, we are out of here....no more TNA.

Again, I use TNA as an example because It's Damn Real is a huge TNA mark...but this would apply equally to ROH or any other wrestling company as well. You simply don't fuck with a legally binding contract. Not when the WWE has the kind of resources to easily dispose of you.

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

I don't honestly think that NCC make that much of a difference personally. Ok, so a lot of big splashes were made when guys like Luger, Hennig, Savage etc jumped ship from WWF to WCW. But who was their biggest acquisition that made them the most money?

Hulk Hogan of course, and how long was it between Hulk leaving Vince, and Hulk joining Eric? Certainly wasn't in 90 days was it? So what did Eric do?........

HE PROMOTED AND HYPED THE ARRIVAL OF NEW TALENT! That's all he did, and it was all he had to do. And everyone swarmed to see the Hulkster in WCW, and then even more swarmed to see him when he turned bad.

Kurt Angle is one of the most recognised names in professional wrestling. Did Vince have him just turn up out of nowhere, doing a run in and introducing himself the followingweek, or did he hype him for several months before he debuted?

So i think that wrestlers can gain a lot of buzz and attention, so long as they're marketed and promoted properly.

Some guys become stars with a simple gimmick change. Some guys get over by taking one impressive bump (in Jeff Hardy's case it was the same impressive bump for 10 years straight), and other guys are simply golden on the stick.

But how do stars who've been out of the spotlight make themselves relevant again when they can't turn up out of the blue? Better promotion by the company is my answer. Regardless of whether fans liked that wrestler before or not, if you hype them well enough, then fans will still tune in purely to see what you intend to do with them. Ok so some of those fans still won't care, but others will say 'Wow, i never saw him do that in the other promotion!' and then they'll stick around and you've gained more viewers.

Shock booking and ship jumping is good for one thing. Surprising the people who are already watching. It does literally nothing to expand the fans base on that particular night. Why didn't Dixie just tell everyone what this 'shocking development that'll change TNA forever' is already instead of making people wait for a surprise? Most people who hear that would probably think 'Well based on all your other "Earth shattering surprises" i expect this one'll be shit as well.' and won't bother. If she announced it, hyped it, promoted it and set a date for the change to occur, then you're potentially going to draw some new fans, instead of simply getting the current ones excited for reasons even they don't understand.

Does it hurt the business? It only hurts the booking teams who view shock booking as a necessity. They're the only ones who suffer as a result of NCC because there IS no shock.

Remember when Jericho jumped ship back in '99? A lot of people already knew he'd be behind the Y2J thing. Now with the internet as powerful as it is, nothing can be kept secret for long, so when a guy's been gone 3 months and signs a new deal, most of us know that person is going to appear on that programme at least 1/3 of the way through the NCC. How long was between Tommy Dreamer's contract signing was announced and his actual appearance? It's been so long that i forgot Tommy Dreamer had signed to TNA at all!

For the wrestlers themselves, it's kinda 50/50 in terms of a benefit/detriment. They can't ride their momentum from the previous promotion, but at the same time, have 90 days to work on a new gimmick, heal from injuries, develop in areas where they may be lacking, and try out some new moves.

To be fair, if they need all their momentum from their previous compnay to get over in the new one, then it must tell you that the the only reason they ever got over was because of the old company. If Jeff Hardy can be (arguably) the #1 face in WWE, and then 3 months later be just another name amongst the shuffle in TNA, then obviously Jeff needed WWE to get over in the first place.

So in conclusion, i think NCC's are simply a smart move by anyone who has direct competition from another company. I think that the momentum that's lost from being off TV for 3 months, can easily be regained with decent promoting and hype, and that the dangers of trying to contest against the NCC's is suicidal from a business standpoint.

imagine if A.J Styles decided to leave TNA for WWE, if A.J has the possibility of leaving TNA on thursday, only to pop up on WWE on Monday, that would generate a decent blow to TNA and benefit WWE most likely.

Lol, that would never happen dude. For 3 reasons:

1. Vince would never let AJ Styles, compete as AJ Styles, so therefore only smarks and TNA marks who know what he looks like would know he's even there.
2. They'd make him go to FCW for like 3 months before ever letting him get in the ring as a WWE wrestler.
3. Vince would never push him in a way that would actually put him in a position to draw. If guys like Evan Bourne need the face of the compnay to speak up for them, just so they can have matches that last longer than 5 minutes on TV a week, then AJ isn't going to be given the chance to draw. If guys like Colt Cabana and Bryan Danielson are released before they're even given the chance to show what they can do, then AJ Styles isn't going to get the chance to draw in WWE.

Sadly, Vince doesn't hire based on ability, he hires based on what someone else thinks of that wrestler's ability, and then when he doesn't see what they see, and fans aren't chanting that wrestler's name in under a month, then sadly that's it, any reason to be rid of you is good enough for Vince.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

As with most things in life, it all depends upon your perspective and point of view as to whether it's a good thing or not.

If you're looking at it from the point of view of a businessman, then it's a very good idea. Too many fans on the internet seem to forget at times that professional wrestling is supposed to be a business. If you want to stay in business, and be successful, then you're going to have to make decisions based upon what's best for you and your company. Vince McMahon is protecting what he has the best way that he has and anybody that can legitimately fault him for that is simply not living in the real world. It might make him a prick in the eyes of some people, but you can't please everybody and running a successful business often means that you can't be running around trying to be Mr. Popular. The wrestlers that sign with the WWE know what they're getting themselves into. They're not being coerced into signing a legally binding contract so, if they don't like it, they've got nobody to blame but themselves.

From the viewpoint of a wrestler, it can probably be damaging. After all, not being able to go out there and do your thing for three months can put a dent in your bank account. That's especially true in this day and age. But, as I said earlier, that's the chance that you take.

I think that, overall, the 90 Day No Compete Clause tends to get blown out of proportion. Some see it as this great and terrible thing created by a control freak and, maybe to some degree, it is. But, also as I said earlier, people tend to forget that wrestling is supposed to be a business. Vince McMahon has hundreds of employees, owns a company that makes hundreds upon hundreds of millions of dollars a year and the choices he makes could affect the future of said company and employees. Those decisions don't always prove out to be right nor are they always going to be popular with some fans. But hey, that's just how life works out in the real world.

 

[Ferbian]

1. Vince would never let AJ Styles, compete as AJ Styles, so therefore only smarks and TNA marks who know what he looks like would know he's even there.

Now that's true, but the popularity of A.J would still shine through rather quickly I could imagine, and it would be something that WWE would be able to capitalize on if it wasn't for the 90 days clause.

2. They'd make him go to FCW for like 3 months before ever letting him get in the ring as a WWE wrestler.

Perhaps not, Bryan Danielson was instantly offered a main roster spot, who's to say A.J wouldn't be offered the exact same deal?

3. Vince would never push him in a way that would actually put him in a position to draw. If guys like Evan Bourne need the face of the compnay to speak up for them, just so they can have matches that last longer than 5 minutes on TV a week, then AJ isn't going to be given the chance to draw. If guys like Colt Cabana and Bryan Danielson are released before they're even given the chance to show what they can do, then AJ Styles isn't going to get the chance to draw in WWE.

Well that's a failure from Vince's side, because A.J I could imagine would draw some decent ratings in for WWE, or at least become incredibly over with the crowd rather fast, A.J is an incredible talent and I don't see why WWE and Vince, if they purchased him, wouldn't recognize that from his time with TNA, and capitalize on it.

Evan Bourne won't become a top face of the company, simply because he doesn't have the ability to be up there from my point of view, something A.J styles has, he has the ability to main event, he has the the whole package to be another Chris Jericho.

And yes Chris Jericho isn't exactly a draw, but WWE has put him in the main event scenario from time to time, he's a very consistent wrestler and very versatile, and Chris Jericho's legacy is quite good, he's a definite Hall of Fame inductee when he retires, why would A.J not want that?

 

[SavageTaker]

From the viewpoint of a wrestler, it can probably be damaging. After all, not being able to go out there and do your thing for three months can put a dent in your bank account. That's especially true in this day and age. But, as I said earlier, that's the chance that you take.

I’m not 100% sure but I think wrestlers get their downside guarantee during those three months. So I don’t think being out for 3 months would hurt them much (financially wise) unless they liked to buy luxurious items and since they wouldn’t be getting any money from ppv’s and such it could hurt them.

However, I still think you brought up a great point. From a wrestler’s viewpoint, it would be damaging in many other ways that I won’t bother to restate. However, a NCC can also be very beneficial to them. Wrestler’s work most of the year and get almost no breaks. So a NCC gives them just that: a break from wrestling that is much needed for some. The only thing they would have to worry about once they return is having ring rust and I'm assuming that can easily be taken care of.

 

[Tastycles]

I think a lot of people have missed the point of the 90 day no compete clause. First of all, the WWE didn't do it as some sort of kneejerk reaction to Luger's defection, he did that because his contract expired, and he would be able to do it again. If anything all that did was make life dificult for any wrestler on the wind down of their contract afterwards, for example Bret Hart.

The 90 day clause is part of the severance agreement that WWE gives people when they are released. Seeing as the WWE are going to be paying the person concerned a portion of the remainder of the contract for doing absolutely nothing, it is perhaps unsurprising that nobody tries to break it.

Breach of contract is absolutely a big deal for the WWE, and the law, and anyone who did break these severance terms would probably put a nail in their own coffin, financially and professionally speaking.

As for being damaging to the industry, I think its a degree of protectionism from the WWE. They don't want someone they have just sacked being given a television platform to talk about the company, which is why it only blocks them signing for companies with TV deals. Furthermore, they will certainly still be paying something to their released stars, as per contractual terms, and as a result, they're likely to not want them to be making money for the competition.

One additional point on this idea of competition is that we have to consider that in all honesty 90 days isn't that long. It gives WWE a buffer, but it has little impact on a wrestler's long term prospects and doesn't really prevent a company from benefitting from the new star. If you have 90 days to prepare for a debut, you can plan a good opening, otherwise you get the sort of crappy directionless debut periods some of the 11th hour TNA signings got when they joined.

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

Now that's true, but the popularity of A.J would still shine through rather quickly I could imagine, and it would be something that WWE would be able to capitalize on if it wasn't for the 90 days clause.

Does TNA have the same rule in their contracts? I don't think i've ever read of a TNA guy having to wait 90 days before going to the 'E', but then again, how many of them have actually been called up?

Perhaps not, Bryan Danielson was instantly offered a main roster spot, who's to say A.J wouldn't be offered the exact same deal?

But there's a big difference. Danielson was trained by HBK, as was Brian Kendrick and Lance Cade. Both Kendrick and Cade took the spot and got absolutetly nowhere outside of the tag division (and even those accomplishments were achieved several years afer they initially debuted), and as soon as both of them started doing something that interested the audience, and they started getting in angles with the higher tier talent, what happened? Both of them were released!!!!!!!

If Danielson had taken the spot, I think that Vince would have given him a spot to keep HBK sweet, and that would probably have been it.

Well that's a failure from Vince's side

Totally agree, i for one was looking forward to seeing what Cabana could do on the mainstream stage.

because A.J I could imagine would draw some decent ratings in for WWE, or at least become incredibly over with the crowd rather fast,

IF WWE used him properly. Styles is a small guy with a lot of ability. Personally i think that he'd have probably been lumped with something stupid and would have really struggled to get over as a result. Bourne's struggling to remain relevant in most people's eyes as it is, because he has no gimmick, no mic time (s we don't even know what his mic skills equate to) and the moves he does best he can't do. He had to hit numerous perfect SSP's in a row in front of the head trainers and Vince before they let him use that as his finisher.

Styles would probably be told not to use the Styles Clash because McCool does it, and wouldn't be doing corkscrew sentons or anything because it looks too much like Starship Pain by Morrison, so Styles would be relegated to only using the Pele before he's even started! And hell, they'll probably ban kicks to the head soon, so that'd be out of the question as well.

I know moves set is nothing to do with getting over, but if he's going to have all that BS to deal with from the start, what other crap are they going to throw at him, and then blame him when he can't get over?

A.J is an incredible talent and I don't see why WWE and Vince, if they purchased him, wouldn't recognize that from his time with TNA, and capitalize on it.

I agree, but the problem is, Vince doesn't watch TNA. Numerous guys who've been big stars in rival promotions, have come to WWE, and askd what Vince thought of their previous work, and loads of them have stated in interviews, that they were told that Vince doesn't even know who they are, despite being led to believe that it was Vince's idea to hire them in the first place. When WWE hires a guy based on their previous work, THEY know what that guy can do, but Vince doesn't, andwhen they don't adapt to the WWE's style straight away, Vince loses interest in keeping them around immediately.

Hell i don't know for sure, but based on the interviews i've read and the number of new talent who get signed and then released out of the fuckin' blue, sometimes in the middle of a fuckin' fued, then that's the impression i get regarding Vince's treatment of new guys who are brought into the fold without a ME'er vouching for them personally.

Evan Bourne won't become a top face of the company, simply because he doesn't have the ability to be up there from my point of view, something A.J styles has, he has the ability to main event, he has the the whole package to be another Chris Jericho.

I agree with this, but sadly i think that AJ would be made to do 10 years in the mid card before Vince gave him a shot at the top tier. Look how long Jericho took to get where he is now in WWE, compared to guys like the Undertaker.

Taker was the champion in less than a year. Jericho had a transitional reign after 2 years because HHH wasn't around to beat Austin and The Rock, and then it was another 5 years before they gave him the belt again!

And look at what they're doing with Christian. The guy busted his ass for Vince and along with Edge and the Hardys, they were THE 4 guys outside of the ME to watch, because their matches/promos/fueds were the best at that time. Christian decides to try his luck elsewhere and when he came back he's relegated to starting all over again on the C brand, and now he's hanging out with Hornswoggle, despite being the only interesting champion to put on consistantly good matches, that ECW ever had other than Punk.

And yes Chris Jericho isn't exactly a draw, but WWE has put him in the main event scenario from time to time, he's a very consistent wrestler and very versatile, and Chris Jericho's legacy is quite good, he's a definite Hall of Fame inductee when he retires, why would A.J not want that?

He'd be foolish not to want that, but whether he feels he'd ever get it is the problem. Aj has already said in the past that the won't go to the 'E' because he doesn't think they appreciate his talent, and I personally agree. It's totally unfair and stupid on the 'E's part but it's Vince's company and he'll do with it as he pleases.

Oh, and i consider Jericho a draw, as in he's a wrestler that I pay to see. If someone asks what matches are you looking forward to, I usually list Jericho's match if he's on the card, and i rarely ever say 'i'm looking forward to the Orton match' or 'I can't wait to see Cena v Batista' etc etc

 

[Ferbian]

Does TNA have the same rule in their contracts? I don't think i've ever read of a TNA guy having to wait 90 days before going to the 'E', but then again, how many of them have actually been called up?

I'm not sure, I'd imagine it would be a good move for TNA to introduce that as well, but really it's also just an example of how WWE could capitalize on it if it wasn't for a 90 days contract, and in the exact opposite way, how TNA could capitalize on it.

But there's a big difference. Danielson was trained by HBK, as was Brian Kendrick and Lance Cade. Both Kendrick and Cade took the spot and got absolutetly nowhere outside of the tag division (and even those accomplishments were achieved several years afer they initially debuted), and as soon as both of them started doing something that interested the audience, and they started getting in angles with the higher tier talent, what happened? Both of them were released!!!!!!!

Being trained by a former WWE talent or not it's not about what's gonna get you far in this business, because Bryan Danielson was still dumped from his first try out with WWE, A.J could make it in the business because he's a great talent, and if Vince cares to watch for TNA, he knows A.J would be a great acquisition

And even if they got interested with the crowd, it's not something that screams that A.J would get released as well, A.J could definitely get over and high in the company, and besides Cade and Brian was released as far as I know because of some bad choices (Cade) and lack of anything to do at all (Brian)

If Danielson had taken the spot, I think that Vince would have given him a spot to keep HBK sweet, and that would probably have been it.

Probably, we won't know really.

Totally agree, i for one was looking forward to seeing what Cabana could do on the mainstream stage.

Cabana was Escobar right?

If so, I was disappointed as well, but he wasn't getting over like WWE had hoped, not even when he dissed Vickie, if you can't get over doing that, there's something wrong.

IF WWE used him properly. Styles is a small guy with a lot of ability. Personally i think that he'd have probably been lumped with something stupid and would have really struggled to get over as a result. Bourne's struggling to remain relevant in most people's eyes as it is, because he has no gimmick, no mic time (s we don't even know what his mic skills equate to) and the moves he does best he can't do. He had to hit numerous perfect SSP's in a row in front of the head trainers and Vince before they let him use that as his finisher.

That might be true, or he could get over purely by in-ring ability like Evan Bourne, and would ultimately be seen to get relevant or underutilized and have Cena to his rescue.

But on a serious note, yes it all depends on how WWE will use him, but he'd get over if used just a bit right, because he's a great overall talent, and if WWE didn't use him right, there's something wrong with the mindset of WWE.

Evan Bourne has been on the microphone once or twice, he's awful by the way, and yes he had to perform it multiple times because they wanted to make sure it was safe, remember what happened to Brock? he got a severe concussion, if Evan was to get a concussion every time he wrestled, oh boy.

And I know Brock botched it, but who's to say Evan wasn't gonna botch it as well? safety measures, safety measures, safety measures.

Styles would probably be told not to use the Styles Clash because McCool does it, and wouldn't be doing corkscrew sentons or anything because it looks too much like Starship Pain by Morrison, so Styles would be relegated to only using the Pele before he's even started! And hell, they'll probably ban kicks to the head soon, so that'd be out of the question as well.

Perhaps, but Styles has plenty of moves, and who knows he could perhaps adopt a new finisher of some kind.

Styles is a great talent and could definitely adapt to something in-ring style wise that would give him a good finisher, he used to use the Frog Splash, why not use that again? he has that Springboard 450 splash, why not use that again? there's plenty of things Styles could do.

I know moves set is nothing to do with getting over, but if he's going to have all that BS to deal with from the start, what other crap are they going to throw at him, and then blame him when he can't get over?

That's a good question, but let's not assume that he can't get over, it's all about what happens really if he gets signed to WWE, something he may very well never get the chance to because he stays loyal to TNA, or WWE doesn't pick up his contract if TNA buys him.

I agree, but the problem is, Vince doesn't watch TNA. Numerous guys who've been big stars in rival promotions, have come to WWE, and askd what Vince thought of their previous work, and loads of them have stated in interviews, that they were told that Vince doesn't even know who they are, despite being led to believe that it was Vince's idea to hire them in the first place. When WWE hires a guy based on their previous work, THEY know what that guy can do, but Vince doesn't, andwhen they don't adapt to the WWE's style straight away, Vince loses interest in keeping them around immediately.

Well a lot of people do watch TNA backstage, or well they did during the period where TNA went against WWE on Mondays, I don't know whether Vince watches it, but even considering that Styles would probably be recognized as quite a talent, some of the people would probably remember him, didn't CM Punk wrestle him? some of the indy guys wrestled him at least here and there I believe.

Hell i don't know for sure, but based on the interviews i've read and the number of new talent who get signed and then released out of the fuckin' blue, sometimes in the middle of a fuckin' fued, then that's the impression i get regarding Vince's treatment of new guys who are brought into the fold without a ME'er vouching for them personally.

I'm not sure, I'm still counting that A.J could get over and get good with WWE, but I'm not gonna place any bets on it until I actually see him in WWE.

I agree with this, but sadly i think that AJ would be made to do 10 years in the mid card before Vince gave him a shot at the top tier. Look how long Jericho took to get where he is now in WWE, compared to guys like the Undertaker.

Then let him serve 10 years in the mid-card, it's not a bad treatment really as long as he gets some decent feuds, Christian has been constantly in the mid-card, and we still like him, Christian is a clear Hall of Fame inductee if you ask me, he won't become a big inductee name, but he'll be in there, A.J could accomplish that as well.

Taker was the champion in less than a year. Jericho had a transitional reign after 2 years because HHH wasn't around to beat Austin and The Rock, and then it was another 5 years before they gave him the belt again!

Yes that is true, but Chris Jericho is a clear Hall of Fame wrestler, he's regarded as one of the greatest things WWE has going right now, or in past years, one of the best overall in WWE right now, and is highly regarded in the IWC, something A.J is the TNA version of, and A.J could easily capture that position in WWE as well.

A.J is still "young" around Punk's age, and still has plenty of good years in him, if he was hired by WWE at age 33, he'd still be able to get over and perform for years, 3-5 years perhaps with WWE is plenty of times to get some love from the crowd and get some from the management perhaps.

And look at what they're doing with Christian. The guy busted his ass for Vince and along with Edge and the Hardys, they were THE 4 guys outside of the ME to watch, because their matches/promos/fueds were the best at that time. Christian decides to try his luck elsewhere and when he came back he's relegated to starting all over again on the C brand, and now he's hanging out with Hornswoggle, despite being the only interesting champion to put on consistantly good matches, that ECW ever had other than Punk.

Yes Christian isn't doing much, it's his punishment for jumping ship to TNA, but if WWE decides to pick up or try to sign A.J styles, is there really anything saying he'd be like Christian, and I again say that Christian has quite a career below his belt, A.J would be left off great with a career like Christian.

He'd be foolish not to want that, but whether he feels he'd ever get it is the problem. Aj has already said in the past that the won't go to the 'E' because he doesn't think they appreciate his talent, and I personally agree. It's totally unfair and stupid on the 'E's part but it's Vince's company and he'll do with it as he pleases.

Exactly, it's a foolish thing not to want a career like Chris Jericho, most up coming wrestlers would probably jizz in their pants if they were told "you're my next Chris Jericho" by Vince or something along the lines.

About the appreciation of talent, let me introduce you to Bryan Danielson, who said he'd never go to WWE because he likes his in-ring style and was fearing he'd get watered down if we went to WWE, well he went there for the money because he needed them.

I doubt A.J needs money, but let's say TNA failed and he had to go back to the indies, don't you think he'd try to get a contract with WWE? I certainly would.

Oh, and i consider Jericho a draw, as in he's a wrestler that I pay to see. If someone asks what matches are you looking forward to, I usually list Jericho's match if he's on the card, and i rarely ever say 'i'm looking forward to the Orton match' or 'I can't wait to see Cena v Batista' etc etc

I don't know really if I'd credit Chris as a draw, I certainly would pay to watch him as well (I stream mind you) but I still don't consider him being able to carry the company in the position of John Cena for example, John who is definitely a draw, Chris Jericho isn't in that league.

From what I know he was given the championship in 2001 because he was popular and WWE thought he could draw, he didn't draw that well, but then again I'm not sure, but I don't think Jericho is at the level that he could draw for the sake of keeping the company alive.

 

[TheAnimal]

Talent has to sign the no compete clause dont they? Its not something that is forced on them i thought.
If they are worth having by TNA, ROH or the indies then they wont be forgotten in 90 days, if anything it would be the opposite, anticipation would build. Plus its 90 days to rest/recuperate/spend time with family etc.

 

[Kaeden]

Its funny because in my business law classes, when No-Compete Clauses came up in the contracts unit, i was informed that while they are legal, they are generally frowned upon. They're enforced, and enforceable, but most courts disagree with their existence. This is because they essentially tell a person he is not allowed to use his skills, and work in his field, that he has trained for years to become proficient at.

This may be why the WWE clause is a mere 90 days, as opposed to the years that a previous poster mentioned. Its just long enough to hurt momentum in a typical WWE fan's goldfish memory, but still not long enough to truly affect a workers livelihood.

As for my opinion, the 90-day ban is bullying by the E. Essentially, the 'released' superstar is still under the WWE's possession, he's just not getting paid, or appearing on tv.

 

[Soapguy]

Does TNA have the same rule in their contracts? I don't think i've ever read of a TNA guy having to wait 90 days before going to the 'E', but then again, how many of them have actually been called up?

I remember Awesome Kong mentioning her no compete clause in two interviews when all the buzz about her "potentially" be picked up by WWE (and the fact that she wasn't doing any "on-air" things for ROH). Of course, that could've been circumstantial. I'm sure someone much smarter than me can correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't TNA pretty much create her overness her in the States? (Well in conjunction with her talent and massive menacingness )