As of thursday morning the big 12 has invited tcu to join them.The rumor is that tcu will not be joining the big east next year as they planned to do but instead join the big 12.the big 12 are doing everything they can do to try and keep the rest of the teams they got together and tcu could help that.Now if this does happen this will leave the big east with only 6 teams in football.So what does everyone think of this.Do yall think the big east will be able to survive with 6 teams or do you think they will try and get some diffrent teams to join them
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tcu
- Thread starter tommyh
- Start date
The Big East may survive by recruiting some schools from smaller conferences but they are going to be even worse then they already are in football and even in basketball they are no longer going to be elite. Syracuse and Pitt are arguably the top 2 basketball schools in the Big East and they are moving to the ACC. UConn is also considering a move to the ACC and that would be another huge blow as the Huskies are right up there with Pitt and Cuse as the elite basketball programs currently in the Big East. The ACC may not be getting much better in football but they are going to be the top basketball conference. UNC, Duke, Syracuse, Pitt, and possibly UConn in the same conference? Ridiculous.
TCU is making the right move. I'm not sure the Big 12 is going to last either but at least if they go to the Big 12 they are closer to home and won't be stuck with a god awful travel schedule.
TCU is making the right move. I'm not sure the Big 12 is going to last either but at least if they go to the Big 12 they are closer to home and won't be stuck with a god awful travel schedule.
The Big East may indeed survive by inviting smaller schools in...but they are very close to becoming a mid-major already, and some serious thought needs to be done about whether or not the Big East is still deserving of an automatic qualifier to a BCS bowl. I don't think that without being able to convince a big school like Notre Dame (which is already a member of the Big East for other sports) to join for football, that they will be able to keep their BCS conference status for too many more years. I think that without a major upheaval/influx of GOOD programs, the Big East is slowly dying.
As for TCU, they haven't officially joined the Big East yet, so, if they change their minds to go to the Big XII, which makes a hell of a lot more sense geographically, I have no problems with it.
As for TCU, they haven't officially joined the Big East yet, so, if they change their minds to go to the Big XII, which makes a hell of a lot more sense geographically, I have no problems with it.
ITurnGirlsGay
Twitter -- @FightOnTwist
The Big East may indeed survive by inviting smaller schools in...but they are very close to becoming a mid-major already, and some serious thought needs to be done about whether or not the Big East is still deserving of an automatic qualifier to a BCS bowl. I don't think that without being able to convince a big school like Notre Dame (which is already a member of the Big East for other sports) to join for football, that they will be able to keep their BCS conference status for too many more years. I think that without a major upheaval/influx of GOOD programs, the Big East is slowly dying.
As for TCU, they haven't officially joined the Big East yet, so, if they change their minds to go to the Big XII, which makes a hell of a lot more sense geographically, I have no problems with it.
As far as I understand it, TCU will still have to undergo the same process that Pitt and Syracuse will. It's still going to be a $5m buyout, plus the "notice."
As of right now, the Big East is on notice. Their conference cannot survive as an AQ unless they recruit some good names. Simply adding teams like Air Force, Temple, and the like will not do if they wish to keep their current status.
TCU would be stupid to join the Big XII rather than the Big East. Oklahoma and Texas already have a strangle on the Texas recruiting base in that conference.
Aside from that, Tech, Baylor, Oklahoma, and Texas will occupy most of the TX recruiting. Hell, aTm will receive a boost in recruiting now that they're a member of the SEC.
TCU's biggest strength lies with the Big East. They're going to be the only school in that conference that can recruit from Texas without interference.
Too bad no high school kids from Texas dream of playing in the Big East. I don't buy the recruiting angle at all. If anything, the opposite is true. TCU will be able to recruit Bo Jackson style by going to the Big XII. In case you aren't familiar, Bo Jackson got spurned by Alabama, and ended up at Auburn, because Auburn challenged him. They knew he wanted to go to Alabama, and recruited him with a revenge based pitch, that going to Auburn would give him the chance to prove to Alabama how wrong they were. The Longhorns will always get to pick most of the best Texas state recruits, but I don't see how kids who grew up in Texas are going to prefer playing in a dying conference against teams they never saw on TV over playing in the Big XII against the same teams they see on TV every week, against the teams that chose not to offer them. Texas based TCU recruits will come to TCU to play Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, etc far more than they would go to the east coast to play UConn or West Virginia. Then there is the simple logistics involved. TCU is not a huge school. The financial resources that would be required to travel to the east coast for every single game would be daunting. The Big XII makes far more economical sense.
ITurnGirlsGay
Twitter -- @FightOnTwist
You mean like the Big XII is dying? They have 9 teams. Revenge only works as a recruiting tactic if your team stands any shot whatsoever of getting said revenge. TCU cannot compete with Oklahoma and Texas in the Big XII. Recruiting for these teams is only going to change for the worse for TCU, because now Texas and Oklahoma will sign that 4 star they don't need to keep TCU from getting him.
The Big XII is a two horse race; Texas and Oklahoma. That's it, that's all. An occasional team may sneak in there like Kansas State did in 2003, but the Longhorns and Sooners run that conference.
Personally, I don't care what TCU does. If they join the Big East they can probably win it most years. They will be lucky to win the Big XII once in a decade and I think that's being generous.
The Big XII is a two horse race; Texas and Oklahoma. That's it, that's all. An occasional team may sneak in there like Kansas State did in 2003, but the Longhorns and Sooners run that conference.
Personally, I don't care what TCU does. If they join the Big East they can probably win it most years. They will be lucky to win the Big XII once in a decade and I think that's being generous.
TCU is saving some money by staying in the Big 12 in terms of travel. Plus the whole reason TCU was going to the Big East was so they could get a BCS bid and it is highly unlikely that the Big East is going to keep an automatic bid for much longer.
In terms of recruiting it is irrelevant what conference TCU is playing in. They are going to get the same recruits they always have and those are mostly the left over talents in the state of Texas. Look at TCUs roster right now and you'll see that a good 80% of their players came from Texas. Moving to the Big East wasn't going to magically change the players they were going to get. They were still going to recruit geographically from where they are located. If anything playing in the Big 12 may get them one or two somewhat bigger named players based solely off the fact that they are going to be in the hometown power conference.
If you are going to go to a dying conference you may as well go to that is close to home.
In terms of recruiting it is irrelevant what conference TCU is playing in. They are going to get the same recruits they always have and those are mostly the left over talents in the state of Texas. Look at TCUs roster right now and you'll see that a good 80% of their players came from Texas. Moving to the Big East wasn't going to magically change the players they were going to get. They were still going to recruit geographically from where they are located. If anything playing in the Big 12 may get them one or two somewhat bigger named players based solely off the fact that they are going to be in the hometown power conference.
If you are going to go to a dying conference you may as well go to that is close to home.
ITurnGirlsGay
Twitter -- @FightOnTwist
My opinion is that the BCS isn't going to strip the Big East of their AQ unless they can give it to someone else. The Big East will add some school and they'll likely keep the AQ bid unless another conference can step forward and make a realistic claim to that spot. There's a couple factors at work here that people haven't considered.
1. No conference is currently allowed more than two spots in the BCS. 1 winner and 1 at-large (if selected)
2. No conference is going to give a shit that the SEC or ACC says they have more teams so they deserve more spots. The Pac-12 and B1G will literally rip heads off if the BCS grants one of those two (particularly the SEC) an extra spot.
3. No conference has enough quality teams to force the BCS to strip the Big East of their current AQ status. It's not that the Big East is amazing, it's that nobody else is good enough. It's honestly going to take a merger of two mid-major conferences to steal that AQ bid.
That's just some food for thought. Regardless, if TCU wants to be the 4th best team from Texas in a conference, I say go for it. They're not going to win it, though. That's for sure. Not anytime soon, at least.
1. No conference is currently allowed more than two spots in the BCS. 1 winner and 1 at-large (if selected)
2. No conference is going to give a shit that the SEC or ACC says they have more teams so they deserve more spots. The Pac-12 and B1G will literally rip heads off if the BCS grants one of those two (particularly the SEC) an extra spot.
3. No conference has enough quality teams to force the BCS to strip the Big East of their current AQ status. It's not that the Big East is amazing, it's that nobody else is good enough. It's honestly going to take a merger of two mid-major conferences to steal that AQ bid.
That's just some food for thought. Regardless, if TCU wants to be the 4th best team from Texas in a conference, I say go for it. They're not going to win it, though. That's for sure. Not anytime soon, at least.
I could definitely see the BCS stripping the Big East of their automatic bid and then just adding an extra at large bid. That would at least be the smart thing to do. Another thing they should do (which again is unlikely) is get rid of the rule that a conference can only have two teams get a BCS bid.
ITurnGirlsGay
Twitter -- @FightOnTwist
I am not a fan of adding an extra slot for a conference in the BCS. The SEC would lobby even harder than they already do to get that slot most years. East Coast bias would give it to them as well. With ESPN systematically destroying conferences and wielding power that they shouldn't have, I'm not a fan of tainting an already tainted system with more bias and politicking.
What about a situation like last year when the Big 10 had three one loss teams? Obviously one of those teams deserved a spot over the Big East Conference winner. It's not like there's many non power conference teams that even come close to being worthy of a BCS bid consistently. The only teams coming to mind are TCU and Boise State. TCU is going to be in a power conference and Boise gets a BCS bid every time they go undefeated.
ITurnGirlsGay
Twitter -- @FightOnTwist
Yeah, last year the Big 10 had 3 one-loss teams. Michigan State clearly didn't belong, but let's set that aside for a second.
Using your scenario (and you know this is right), let's say the B1G has 3 one-loss teams again this year, and the SEC has an undefeated, a 1 loss LSU, and a 2 loss Florida (hypothetically).
You know damn good and well that Florida is going to claim that losses to only LSU & Alabama make them more deserving of a spot than a Michigan team who might have lost to, let's say, Ohio State. Generally they'd probably be right, but do you see how often the SEC will be making this claim? They'll throw a strangle-hold on that 3rd spot with their annual SEC bullshit about how tough their conference is.
Look at the year that Tech, Texas, and OU all had one loss and Tech got left out. Even if that same scenario occurs, an SEC team will say they are more deserving than Tech because of their "strength of schedule."
The SEC bias is actually more idiotic than people realize. They are not as good of a conference as people think they are.
Using your scenario (and you know this is right), let's say the B1G has 3 one-loss teams again this year, and the SEC has an undefeated, a 1 loss LSU, and a 2 loss Florida (hypothetically).
You know damn good and well that Florida is going to claim that losses to only LSU & Alabama make them more deserving of a spot than a Michigan team who might have lost to, let's say, Ohio State. Generally they'd probably be right, but do you see how often the SEC will be making this claim? They'll throw a strangle-hold on that 3rd spot with their annual SEC bullshit about how tough their conference is.
Look at the year that Tech, Texas, and OU all had one loss and Tech got left out. Even if that same scenario occurs, an SEC team will say they are more deserving than Tech because of their "strength of schedule."
The SEC bias is actually more idiotic than people realize. They are not as good of a conference as people think they are.
The SEC bias is there but 9 times out of 10 the third best team in the SEC is still better then what ever team the Big East has winning their conference. The system can never be perfect unless there is a playoff but changing the rule would still make it slightly better. The SEC may not be as good as they think but they are the top conference.
ITurnGirlsGay
Twitter -- @FightOnTwist
I completely agree with you about the Big East. Especially last year when Connecticut got a Fiesta Bowl bid against Oklahoma (We saw how well that went for both Connecticut as a university and as a football team).
That's not the point I'm making. They apply their bias to EVERY conference. Last year, Stanford would have destroyed Arkansas. I honestly would have picked Stanford to beat Auburn. That's neither here nor there and a lot of people will disagree. To your point, a playoff is the only answer, but nobody is going to let that happen any time soon.
Last year the second best team in the SEC wasn't even as good as the second best team in the Pac-10.
Below is an article I wrote on the SEC bias and the hypocrisy behind the bias.
http://sports-at-work.com/PAC-12/hypocrisec-one-could-make-the-argument.html
That's not the point I'm making. They apply their bias to EVERY conference. Last year, Stanford would have destroyed Arkansas. I honestly would have picked Stanford to beat Auburn. That's neither here nor there and a lot of people will disagree. To your point, a playoff is the only answer, but nobody is going to let that happen any time soon.
Last year the second best team in the SEC wasn't even as good as the second best team in the Pac-10.
Below is an article I wrote on the SEC bias and the hypocrisy behind the bias.
http://sports-at-work.com/PAC-12/hypocrisec-one-could-make-the-argument.html
ITurnGirlsGay
Twitter -- @FightOnTwist
I mean, look at all the people swallowing LSU's load about their "great defense" this year. Okay, LSU has a good defense, but I wouldn't exactly call it great.
Oregon outgained LSU 335 yards to 273.
The Ducks had three scoring drives of over 60 yards, including a 19-play, 79-yarder. LSU had one.
LSU had zero sacks. Oregon had one.
LSU had six tackles for a loss. Oregon had five.
West Virginia had 28 first downs against LSU
Geno Smith threw for 463 yards against LSU
WVU had 533 total yards against LSU
That's not an amazing defense, but they'll sell you on the fact that it is because they won those games like they did.
Oregon outgained LSU 335 yards to 273.
The Ducks had three scoring drives of over 60 yards, including a 19-play, 79-yarder. LSU had one.
LSU had zero sacks. Oregon had one.
LSU had six tackles for a loss. Oregon had five.
West Virginia had 28 first downs against LSU
Geno Smith threw for 463 yards against LSU
WVU had 533 total yards against LSU
That's not an amazing defense, but they'll sell you on the fact that it is because they won those games like they did.
LSU does have a good defense. It's about giving up TD's and they don't really do that. Bend but don't break rule. Lsu slowed down Oregon and WVU had a ton of yds but not a lot of td's...Statistically the defense may not be great. But they don't give up a lot of td's.
Now onto TCU, is Pitt wasn't going to the ACC, I'd be pissed. But they are going so I don't care. TCU will now fail and get dismantled by Oklahoma every year. In the Big East they could have won every year. Now I hope they fail.
Geographically the move makes sense but not when it comes to winning. But I see why they did it. No big deal in my opinion...
Now onto TCU, is Pitt wasn't going to the ACC, I'd be pissed. But they are going so I don't care. TCU will now fail and get dismantled by Oklahoma every year. In the Big East they could have won every year. Now I hope they fail.
Geographically the move makes sense but not when it comes to winning. But I see why they did it. No big deal in my opinion...
ITurnGirlsGay
Twitter -- @FightOnTwist
LSU does have a good defense. It's about giving up TD's and they don't really do that. Bend but don't break rule. Lsu slowed down Oregon and WVU had a ton of yds but not a lot of td's...Statistically the defense may not be great. But they don't give up a lot of td's.
Now onto TCU, is Pitt wasn't going to the ACC, I'd be pissed. But they are going so I don't care. TCU will now fail and get dismantled by Oklahoma every year. In the Big East they could have won every year. Now I hope they fail.
Geographically the move makes sense but not when it comes to winning. But I see why they did it. No big deal in my opinion...
LSU's defense SHATTERS. Oregon scored enough points to beat LSU, but they didn't have the defense to stop them. When LSU is forced to play someone that's balanced on both sides of the ball like Alabama, LSU is going to get taken to the woodshed. If LSU beats Alabama, I will swallow my pride and admit they are a good team, but SEC football has NEVER been about "bend but don't break."
SEC football is "don't bend, don't break, don't give an inch." LSU is giving a mile to a lot of teams, they've just been lucky that those teams couldn't stop anybody.
To Pitt, it's not like Pitt is going to win in the ACC. They can't even win the Big East at the present, I don't really see them doing much better in a 14 team conference when they couldn't win a 9 team conference.
But this year it seems to be more of the Les Miles philosophy. It's about timely turnovers and having a balanced attack. I think LSU will be more prepared come game day seeing as how there schedule has been a little tougher.
Also, Pitt should be better in the ACC. Locally Pittsburgh is filled with talented athletes. But these athletes want to go to better conferences. The Big East sucks. Why go to the Big East when you can play in the Big 12, ACC, SEC, and Big 10? Now we have conference prestige. I expect Pitt to recruit better. And it might already show if Shell chooses Pitt over Bama.
Also, Pitt should be better in the ACC. Locally Pittsburgh is filled with talented athletes. But these athletes want to go to better conferences. The Big East sucks. Why go to the Big East when you can play in the Big 12, ACC, SEC, and Big 10? Now we have conference prestige. I expect Pitt to recruit better. And it might already show if Shell chooses Pitt over Bama.
ITurnGirlsGay
Twitter -- @FightOnTwist
Might be able to recruit a bit better, but I can't see Pitt winning when the talent they have now should be able be to be the lesser talent of most teams in that division.
I mean, for god's sake, Pitt got penalized for having two players wearing the #5 on the field at the same time on Saturday? It's not talent that's keeping Pitt from winning, it's poor decision making.
I mean, for god's sake, Pitt got penalized for having two players wearing the #5 on the field at the same time on Saturday? It's not talent that's keeping Pitt from winning, it's poor decision making.
ITurnGirlsGay
Twitter -- @FightOnTwist
It's official. The Horned Frogs have accepted the Big XII invite. They will begin league play July 1st, 2012. TCU trustees approved the move this afternoon.
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