Suicide
- Thread starter Y 2 Jake
- Start date
I think it is a *****es way out. Everyone has problems and if you can't figure out a way to cope with them besides death then it is a pussy thing to do. Heck, everyone has problems but there in my my point of view is no problem worth killing youself over.
Mexican Geek
It's good to be back!
i do agree in some points, i'm also against suicide as a quick back door escape. I mean, people with families and little kids (Jake) should "suck it up" as afan21 said, in fact i wouldn't do it for the same reason.
But there are some other situations like non curable illnesses, ok, let me share this with you guys...
When i was in college, one of the guys of our little group of gamers drunk heads, had AIDS, first thought; He fucked some cheap dirty ****e without condom...wrong, he got it while receiving a blood transfusion because he had an accident.
He filed for a lawsuit against the hospital, but in the mean time, he struggled with his disease, and it was really sad watching him trying to get over it.
I lost contact after i grad, but 2 years later, i learn that he committed suicide , when all of his family turn on him, after knowing of his condition(note:he was a Salvadorian studying at Mexico, parents and rest of the family were at El Salvador). Obviously, they couldn't believe that he got it while a transfusion. He was a disturbed little man, and you couldn't tell that he was capable of such a thing (suicide) he loved Nine Inch Nails and eating fried chicken.
RIP M. man.
Anyway, i don't justify M. for what he did, but i don't know what i would do in the same case.
But there are some other situations like non curable illnesses, ok, let me share this with you guys...
When i was in college, one of the guys of our little group of gamers drunk heads, had AIDS, first thought; He fucked some cheap dirty ****e without condom...wrong, he got it while receiving a blood transfusion because he had an accident.
He filed for a lawsuit against the hospital, but in the mean time, he struggled with his disease, and it was really sad watching him trying to get over it.
I lost contact after i grad, but 2 years later, i learn that he committed suicide , when all of his family turn on him, after knowing of his condition(note:he was a Salvadorian studying at Mexico, parents and rest of the family were at El Salvador). Obviously, they couldn't believe that he got it while a transfusion. He was a disturbed little man, and you couldn't tell that he was capable of such a thing (suicide) he loved Nine Inch Nails and eating fried chicken.
RIP M. man.
Anyway, i don't justify M. for what he did, but i don't know what i would do in the same case.
You see the when it's said that suicidal people are *****es, it means that the person saying those things know fuck all about depression. There's no reason for me to be depressed. I'm pretty well off and I've got a child. The reason I want to kill myself is nothing more than a mental illness. People who say it's the *****es way out have obviously never had a really bad bout of depression. They might be down and say there depressed, but there not. What there having is a bad day. You have to ask yourself why people kill themselves. Most of the time it's because they spend all day every day hating themselves. They realise that life for them will never get any better. And If your living every day wanting to kill yourself then isn't it better to just get it over and done with?
Mexican Geek
It's good to be back!
exactly, just like a person who looses his job, and then go home to found his wife fucking with the neighbor, who results to be his best friend. That must be enough for a regular person to quit this life. Sure, sounds like the worst thing ever happening, but why not taking a second chance?? There's more things to do on life, maybe get over it and get married again, or get revenge on the bitch , who knows...
But when it comes to mental illness, things change totally. People can't control (partially or totally) their thoughts, and specially, their depression episodes. Totally agree with you Jake, even when i suffer a mild form of bipolar disorder (as stated in that thread) i cant understand people when complains about a bad day and thinks that's the end of their lives, when people with worst problems, deals with it and get over it.
But when it comes to mental illness, things change totally. People can't control (partially or totally) their thoughts, and specially, their depression episodes. Totally agree with you Jake, even when i suffer a mild form of bipolar disorder (as stated in that thread) i cant understand people when complains about a bad day and thinks that's the end of their lives, when people with worst problems, deals with it and get over it.
Life is what you make it. If your dealt a bad card in life suck it up. Simple as that and if your mentally ill there are outlets out there for you too get help. Hell, if I had a wife and she was porking the neighbor and I lost my job I would look at it like I now can move onto bigger and better things and I would kill myself.
Now let me explain something about mental illness. I have been depressed went and seen head doctors and was on prozac for a time. I wnt throught all that shit. Depression hurt me a lot not becasue I sat around saying poor me but because it hurt my potential football career. It stopped me from playing, I was too damn depressed to play after my sophmore year in high school and I was a decent player who could have got some kind of scholarship to play at some small school but I didn't I quit because I rather mope around and do nothing and sit on the internet and feel sorry for myself, but never did I once want to end my life.. It finally got to the point where I was tired of how I felt and I grabbed depression by the balls and kicked its ass but suicide never crossed my mind. Somtimes to this day I still get depressed from time to time but I force myself to go out and do something and beat this depression and I don't take prozac for it anymore and I'm a normal 21 yr old who enjoys booze, bitches, and buddies.
Now let me explain something about mental illness. I have been depressed went and seen head doctors and was on prozac for a time. I wnt throught all that shit. Depression hurt me a lot not becasue I sat around saying poor me but because it hurt my potential football career. It stopped me from playing, I was too damn depressed to play after my sophmore year in high school and I was a decent player who could have got some kind of scholarship to play at some small school but I didn't I quit because I rather mope around and do nothing and sit on the internet and feel sorry for myself, but never did I once want to end my life.. It finally got to the point where I was tired of how I felt and I grabbed depression by the balls and kicked its ass but suicide never crossed my mind. Somtimes to this day I still get depressed from time to time but I force myself to go out and do something and beat this depression and I don't take prozac for it anymore and I'm a normal 21 yr old who enjoys booze, bitches, and buddies.
They you cant distinguish between being depressed and being bipolar. There not the same things, but as being bipolar is a form of depression people put it into the same category. I have no problem with motivating myself to get up every day. Probably because I dont have a choice. I can make myself do anything. Depression wouldn't make me miss out on something. Like a promising football career. That's because people with very serious depression just get on with it. It's the ''part timers'' who think it's the end of the world. Just because I want to kill myself, doesn't mean I'll ever actually do it. I have plenty of self restraint.
Shadowmancer
I am The Last Baron
This is the Controversial Craccum article that ran in 2000 about Suicide, it was so controversial at the Time that that issue of Craccum is called the Suicide Issue. They ran the story again this week as it is 80 years of Craccum being produced.
for those that wish to commit suicide read this if it is to convince you to not do so, this is information not telling you to do it this is a disclaimer
Suicide Is Painless? - The Craccum Articles
Tuesday, 7 March 2000, 5:22 pm
Article:
Suicide Is Painless?
Craccum Magazine makes no apologies for this article. We know that suicide is one of the few taboo subjects still left in society. We know that New Zealand has the highest youth suicide rate in the world.
We don't know why this is, and we don't know guaranteed solutions to the problem. We are sure that a lot of people's suggestions on prevention or 'curing' suicidal tendencies are likely to be wrong. We don't believe that God, or psychotherapy, or anti-depressant medication are individually able to aid every suicidal person in the country.
All we do know is that support helps and silence doesn't. Years of misinformation about suicide being caused by backwardly masked lyrics in Judas Priest songs, or satanic cults, or marijuana abuse have led to finger pointing by people with an unwillingness to convey responsibility to other, more viable, sources.
Our prime reason for printing this article is to provide information. If you think that you want to commit suicide, you need to know what you're getting into. Very, VERY few forms of suicide are relatively painless. Those that are have not been listed - this guide is not intended to advocate or promote suicide. This guide is designed to explode the myth that suicide is a 'painless, easy way out'.
The human body does not want to die, and physiologically attempts to preserve itself. When you burn alive, your body curls into a foetal position. This is one main way that policemen identify whether a person was alive before they were immolated. When you fall, your body also pulls into a foetal position to attempt to minimize the damage. Blood clots to try to prevent death by bleeding.
The key point of suicide is over-coming the natural instincts of self preservation possessed by your body and mind. This is a decision that is not to be taken lightly, and while it is not the place of this particular article to moralise, it MUST be said that there is so much senseless death in this world already that you must make as informed a decision as possible on this most important of matters. People provide genuinely helpful support networks in the community, and there are always people to discuss
What follows has been printed in order to ensure that you know the full consequences of any decision you make to end your life.
Death by gunshot
There is a reason why so many attempted gunshot suicides leave the victim alive, but ultimately comatose or ******ed. The brain is a lot more resilient than many of us give it credit for, and the bone structures of the human body are a lot stronger. Even if the gun is on your temple/in your mouth before you pull the trigger, recoil almost guarantees that it won't be in the right place when the bullet is ejected from the gun. You can VERY easily remove part of your frontal lobe and still be alive and (rel
If you care even slightly for the people who are probably going to find you, you will stay away from this method. If you're such an ******** that you want your family's last memories of you to be scraping your brains off the furniture, the reasons you have chosen to commit suicide may well require examination. See the box-out later in the article.
Death by Carbon Monoxide (Car exhaust fumes)
A Craccum reporter related this story about one of the supposedly least painful ways to kill yourself :
"When an acquaintance of mine killed himself using exhaust fumes, he became so disfigured the police wouldn't allow his family in to see the body. All of the capillaries in his face burst, his eyeballs popped and his tongue was so badly swollen that it protruded from his mouth and held his jaw in a totally unnatural position."
This is in stark contrast to the widely held belief that one just falls asleep. Carbon monoxide works in the following way - haemoglobin, the body's way of carrying oxygen around the body, mistakes the monoxide ion for oxygen and 'absorbs' it. The difference between oxygen and monoxide is that monoxide 'sticks' to the haemoglobin, and isn't removed. This means, in short, that actual, life-giving oxygen is no longer distributed throughout your body.
Motor Vehicles (Driving a car into anything)
Remember what we said about your body's survival instinct? No matter how much you are sure you want to kill yourself, your body will almost invariably press the brake pedal at the last moment. This reaction is almost involuntary, and your psychological demeanor will do little to avoid it. Also you will curl and/or shield your face to try and reduce damage.
Be aware that because of this protective instinct, you may well survive the initial crash. Much like the road safety advertisements on television, your secondary concern is whether or not you'll survive the car igniting or subsequent bleeding. If you've changed your mind in the interim, there's not that much you can do about it.
In America, some insurance agents gauge whether or not an automobile death was suicide or not by measuring, amongst other things, the distance of the tire marks to indicate when the driver started braking.
Drowning
Surprisingly, death by drowning has been related to us as one of the more pleasant ways to pass, once hypoxia has set in (reports which have, rather obviously, been obtained from people who have been resuscitated after clinical death).
If only it were pleasant up until that point. Struggling will lead to a build up of lactic acid in your muscles, and when you combine that with the lack of oxygen in your system, you face the possibility of any or all of your muscles cramping. If you are within grasp of air, you WILL struggle to reach it. People who have drowned describe the state of near madness attained before accepting the first gasp of water into your system.
Taking Too Many Pills/Poisoning
First things first, make sure that the pills you've got will actually kill you. Many will ruin a vital organ in your body like the kidneys or liver. Painful, yes - death, no.
Your body will utilise its survival instinct and try to evacuate the poisons - in other words, you are likely to vomit your lights out. You don't have to remove all of the toxins from your system in order to survive, and you may well wake up in a few hours time feeling like death, but not actually being dead.
Also, while not wanting to belittle any person's suicidal wish, if you DO happen to change your mind, with certain medications will leave you alive for a period of many hours. Remember too that many of the most common pills and chemicals around the house (Aspirin/Panadol, Window Cleaner, Battery Acid etc) will make you endure the most agonising death possible. In particular, bleach and dishwashing powder work by eating through your stomach and spreading through your other internal organs. If you regurgit
Hanging Yourself
When hanging was a form of capital punishment in England, hangmen were veritable scientists in their trade. An equation exists that is still readily available on the internet. It links body weight to rope length, and is used to calculate an 'ideal' hanging. If the rope is too short, your neck doesn't snap at the right time, and you will die by strangulation. If the rope is too long, your body accelerates so much when you fall that you are more likely to decapitate yourself.
Unfortunately, if you try this at home, it's unlikely that you're going to have such a perfect passing. It has been documented in several hanging cases that the victim has been found with burst eyeballs (pressure build-up in the head), snapped spine (from bucking and struggling in the noose) and burst sphincter. Also, most homes are not equipped with objects capable of supporting the weight of an accelerating adult body.
If you doubt that your body tries to avoid death, no matter what your mindset is, examine some autopsy evidence on the internet. Many people who hang themselves claw marks into their necks trying to avoid death by hanging.
Jumping Off A High Surface
Don't buy into the long defunct theory that you die of 'fright' before you hit the ground. You'll experience a level of sheer terror that might make you wish you were dead, but that won't come until later. Possibly.
If you haven't chosen your location VERY carefully, chances are good that you will survive your fall, but be very much the worse for wear. You can never overestimate how far you can fall, especially when your body will naturally curl to minimise damage. People have survived falls of over 20 stories without a scratch, whilst others have died falling off the roof of a one storey house. If you honestly just want this life to end without trying to make a display for other people, this is not a way that you want
Coincidentally, it's urban legend around these parts that most people that jump off the Harbour Bridge survive the fall, but get stuck in the mud that forms the base of the Hauraki Gulf.
Slashing Your Wrists
By now, most people will know that it's easier to die by slashing your wrists in a line from hand to elbow (as opposed to the lateral technique favoured in movies). What the majority of people don't realise is how REMARKABLY hard it is to drain enough blood from your system without the wound clotting, no matter how deep it is. The actual artery that you have to cut is located between the tendons in your wrist. To cut it effectively, you have to slash at your wrist several times, parting each wound as you
The movies have got it right in one respect however - killing yourself in a steamy bathroom. The reason for this is not simple shot staging or dramatics. The theory of the bath is to keep the wound open, with both the water and the heat fighting blood coagulation. Also be aware that even if you faint, you still have more than enough blood in your system to survive for a long time. The wound may well close while you are in this condition, and you will survive.
Decapitation by other object (Train for example)
If you've read the rest of this article, and noted the body's propensity for damage avoidance, you will get an idea about what happens in this case. If you can SOMEHOW keep your head on the tracks in the above example for long enough, with the noise getting louder and louder and with the painful anticipation, death is fairly certain.
A painless death is less certain. Whilst we are not chickens that can survive for minutes after decapitation, there is evidence to suggest that the mind will function sufficiently to register the horrific pain that you are enduring.
Cranial Penetration (with a needle/sharp object)
If you've only heard half the story, you might understand this method to be painless. It is true that the brain itself feels very little in the way of pain due to the absence of nerve endings there. The pain comes in trying to insert an object INTO the brain. The most obvious way is through the ear, as the bone plating is far weaker there.
Even IF you manage to keep constant pressure for long enough to penetrate the brain, you're still left with the problem of death by gunshot. You could severely impair your neurological functions, but still be left alive.
Box-out : While many 'triggers' of suicide do involve issues like difficulties in expressing your true feelings (especially with regards to gender roles and/or homosexuality) , anger or spurned affections, you should think VERY carefully about deciding to kill yourself because of another person. You won't be around to see your funeral, or their reactions. Also, if someone doesn't care about you in life, they may well not care that much in death either.
Here is an editorial piece from the editor of the time who has fairly recently been convicted of Sedition.
Again this is not condoning Suicide and is a way for you to realise why not to commit suicide.
Last Call
By Tim Selwyn
It is time we had a real debate about the nature of suicide. In the barrage of propaganda from the government, in which they use our money to convince us that we ought to keep living, they will never offer a philosophical justification. They bark, they demand, they tut-tut, they wag their finger and they organise conferences, and always the answer is the same: more money must be spent, the government is not doing enough. If the correct answer is more money and government intervention, the question itself must surely be wrong.
But the government, the medical-psychiatric-counselling fraternity, the coroners, the do-gooders and the media, collude in a consensus of denial because they do not want to face the home truths that suicide brings. Suicide is a personal act that is treated on a macro scale in most people's thinking; and it suits the interested parties in this self-enriching and self justifying game to keep people in ignorance of the issues behind their convenient approach. The hysterical reaction to an earlier (and subsequently unpublished) version of this article by the university counsellors illustrates the intellectual bankruptcy and propagandist nature of the suicide industry and the weakness of the press. The hypocrisy of the crusading zealots who claim to want a debate on the suicide issue is quite clear - they want the exact opposite: a soapbox for their lobbying and censorship of ideas contrary to their interests.
In an era where millions are spent to officially endorse mental illness, in an attempt to legitimise and normalise human weakness and insanity, we could be forgiven for thinking that the final decay of our society into an Orwellian freakshow of the Politically Correct variety is dawning like a mushroom cloud on the horizon. Ironically enough, it seems the more we try to be liberal the more illiberal the results. The crime rate soars as fast as psychologists emerge to create new and evermore implausible "syndromes" to excuse it. The weak feel vindicated and the evil are encouraged - disturbing times. Is it any wonder that some high-profile politicians of the left, acting unwittingly in their capacity as parental role models have had children who have suicided?
Would they ever suggest that maybe the parents should take reponsibility for their children's moral development and character? Or would they say it is the State's duty? Either way, they know in their hearts, after the rhetoric and the ideological dogma has been trotted out that it was the personal decision of their child, insane or not, and not any defect of government that is ultimately responsible. The significance of the values that their parents instilled in them will remain a moot point.
Is it any wonder that in our society where values are in flux, and self discipline is waning, that in this age of wealth and unparalleled access to hedonistic consumer goods, where the fear of war and destruction is a by-gone memory, where the life expectancy is still climbing ever upwards, that in this environment it is precisely because of this sterile and safe world that people can now suicide over the silliest things because we have the luxury to think about them and brood over them where once we were to busy eeking out an existence to worry about such matters. This may only explain a fraction of the youth suicides, and means that it is a good indicator of how economically well we are doing. If this minority cannot cope in a nihilistic society because they fail to value themselves, then so be it. It is their own fault and their own decision, we simply cannot reinstate compulsory military training so that the handful of would-be suiciders can be given meaning to their lives. This does not go down well in a society where, crazy as it seems, if noone is to blame then it is assumed that everyone is to blame.
All suicides are usually lumped together by the authorities regardless of circumstance. This suits the lazy-minded and adds to the shock value of the lobbyists generic and always hyperbolic claims of "crisis" so as to justify vast expenditure and gain kudos for the person who can cry wolf the loudest. The media can be relied upon to shame itself with a total lack of analysis. Because suicide as an issue defined in parameters set by themselves and has only one monolithic side, and no counter-argument, the "crisis" angle can merrily spin like a perpetual motion machine: there's a suicide - isn't it awful - everyone says the gummint should do something - isn't it awful etc. etc.
Well people suicide for all manner of reasons, none of which can be helped by intervention, and most of which should not. People will tend to kill themselves if they perceive they are in a desperately hopeless predicament. Information to put this predicament into perspective may assist in the cases of a minute minority. But we can never assume that our perspective is the right one for someone else, or that their answer is not the right answer: and if their anwer is suicide then so be it. If we can respect every other decision they make then we ought to respect the ultimate one.
As for suicide being a "selfish act," it's far more selfish that a person should want someone alive for their own benefit. Firstly, there is nothing wrong with a selfish act if it is as important to the suicider as it obviously is, and secondly, the point of other people's existence ought to be determined by themselves rather than others, as it would mean that we only exist as slaves with no recourse to the ultimate in self-determination: self-destruction. If suicide stands for anything it is that it is others who are selfish. Is it others, the government, who should determine that we must live? If we cannot choose to die then it follows that we cannot really choose to live, and that it undermines the value of living. Through history we see the religious and the government authorities removing people's right to the final escape, in their attempt to remain in control of life itself.
Then there is the alarming thought that it is the living who are wrong and the suicide was the one with enough courage to put an end to it all. It is our pride, and our patronising arrogance that leads us to scorn and then to lament the him or her. We ask ourselves why do people suicide, when maybe we should be asking ourselves "why do we live?" The authorities would never risk telling people the obvious, that they must discover their own reasons to live, in case people find they don't have any. Darcy Clay suicided the day before he was to play a gig at an anti-youth suicide concert - a potent message.
As in the case of war and euthanasia, it can be quite rational, humane and appropriate to kill yourself, but it is the other instances of suicide that some people are unwilling to recognise as being the act of a rational clear thinking adult with all the facts in front of them. Apart from clear-cut instances of people shouting that they're god and jumping off a building in a superman outfit, suicides from deranged people would not make up the majority. It is not good enough to claim that depression is a mental condition akin to insanity either; after all how many people have thought "I'm so happy I could die."? Is happiness a mental illness too? Depressed people can make rational decisions and who is to say that suicide isn't one of them. Afterwards they may well claim that they are glad they did not suicide - but so what? It is like claiming you are glad you didn't go to a place that you have no information about or even know where it is. It isn't good or bad; it is what it is - final.
On the other hand there are no doubt many instances of people who were very sorry they didn't suicide when they had the chance. The horrors of this current war in Chechnya being an obvious example, but also social horrors and a life of misery in our society may warrant a mercifully curtailed existence.
The contention here is that suicide itself is a morally neutral act. The issues surrounding it, and the person themselves can be evaluated but the act itself is like their birth: it just happens. The person has their own reasons, an outsider's evaluation of the circumstances does not affect that. Some people suicide to avoid their worse fears, rejection in love, financial oblivion, social stigmatisation, incarceration and so on. Some fears, like the former ones are acute, and some are obtuse and morbid, like the fear of a living the rest of one's life in a meaningless mediocracy, the futility of existence in a world where one's goals will never be achieved, and so on. In both instances it would be justified that a person who was so pathetic as to let one relationship be the end-point of their life deserves to kill themselves, and a person who really was unhappy and unfulfilled would be better off dead since their position would not likely improve. Once again - it's all up to them.
The old man sick of his wife found in the garage, the businessman facing bankruptcy jumping off a bridge, Darcy Clay, a cop who shoots himself on a deserted beach, Kurt Cobain, a man found hanging in the back shed, the girl with a baby fostered out who drowns herself, and the man who "autocides" by simply driving off a cliff - they had all just had enough. They are young, old, black, brown, white, men, women, married, single, rich, poor, conservative, radical and could be the person next door. The only thing they had in common is the only relevant one: they had all just had enough.
We won't see a big ad campaign praising them, praising their courage to cross into the unknown abyss, praising their stoic fortitude in seeing through what others could not stomach, praising their ability to determine their own fate, praising their strength of will to overcome their survival instinct. The old chestnut about it being the easy way out is ridiculous, it must be an incredibly difficult decision - one involving much thought and mental stamina. These suicides are as close to gracious as it can get, with minimal involvement of others and the only ethical qualm being the degree to which people dependent on them are affected. Instead of praise the government actively encourages the ones who don't have the balls to see it through, and who insist on playing out the farce and dramatics to gain attention. It is the endorsement of the Clayton's suicide, that most wretched and detestable pastime of the useless and weak: an "attempted suicide."
The people who have the most suicide attempts are the ones who most deserve to get it right. The attempted suicide cheapens and debases the real suicides, and is not an attempt at all but a fake. It is the manifestation of self indulgence and self importance, with an air of the drama queen to add spice to their own little tragedy. It is a cry for help that ought to be answered by a bullet.
Each time the fake is enacted it is rewarded. The pathology is replayed as the faker becomes addicted to the thrill of a near-death experience and the resultant, usually feigned, compassion. The faker uses it as a mark of character when, of course it is exactly a mark of defective temperament and denotes a weak character. To boast of such faking (and they can go on about it) is contemptible and disgusting.
Faking is also the bread and butter of the counselling racket. Counsellors typically mirror their clientele: losers. Losers who choose to justify themselves by fooling themselves into thinking they are playing God with people (whose mere act of ringing up or talking indicates they are a faker in the first place). They see their pointless jobs as a calling, but they ingratiate themselves to fellow losers in gossip sessions and drama scenes because they get a perverse voyeuristic kick out of it, not only for a feeling of self importance. Fakers helping fakers - how very convenient it all is, the real suicide rate after a call to a crisis line must be incredibly low, and (a corollary of that) what a wonderful success rate they must enjoy. More money for them. Come on callers join the party.
In this sickening collusion add the coroners to the list. Those lippy mavericks, who literally are judge and jury (and act like they are the executioners) have their act of parliament to gag the press on all suicides and are only too willing to join in the rounds of finger pointing, pontificating and engaging in activist blather with the usual lack of intelligence that marks this phoney debate. As far as answers go they contribute nothing from within the safety of their lofty and unelected office. The level of the coroners' arguments seems to be hovering around that of talk-back radio after the pubs have just closed. And as for the brain-dead media, we have long stopped expecting anything less than reactionary fumblings as far as critiques of the status quo go.
The final segment of resistance to home truths is, naturally, the people close to the suicide. Every family somewhere along the line will have suicides in the closet. And every time it is the same: "we had no idea? Why didn't we know? Why didn't they tell us something was wrong?" and "if they did we would have helped." And there is always the other questions: how could a person we thought was good do something so bad to themselves? We feel let down, excluded, even humiliated, by their secretive actions, as if it were a personal betrayal. And at the same time we may feel partly guilty that it was our fault, our negligence, our failure that contributed to it. And since we have all been in that situation we may even project this guilt and blame on to society at large. Suicides being individual-specific and circumstance-specific, some scenarios may well be aggravated because of some individuals' actions, such as persecution or abuse. But our feelings towards the tragic act is all so futile.
Although tragedy would imply inevitability, the act of suicide must be premeditated to some degree, and still require a decision at the ultimate point. Our seeming irrelevance to their lives (and their death) may leave us bitter, and even lead us to a healthy questioning of the value of our own lives. What we must not lose sight of in these situations is that they had their reasons. No matter how foolish, old fashioned, bizarre, or misinformed their decision it was their decision and we ought to respect it. If they really thought they had to die then they deserved to die. The ultimate privilege was theirs alone to enact, and is neither good nor bad, it just is. We can't do a damn thing about it, and it's time we stopped acting as if we could.
Ends
My personal feelings on Suicide is that it is the Wusses way out. You try and gut it out or ask for help. I prefer the Gut it out approach, which I have done Personally. Life has its ups and downs and people that commit suicide are in a down part of their life and can't see the light that is there at the end of the tunnel. I believe in riding out the highs and lows as committing Suicide is going to do nothing but cause pain to your loved ones. As I have seen first hand as a one of My friends Brothers commited suicide and he found him. He is still dealing with it.
for those that wish to commit suicide read this if it is to convince you to not do so, this is information not telling you to do it this is a disclaimer
Suicide Is Painless? - The Craccum Articles
Tuesday, 7 March 2000, 5:22 pm
Article:
Suicide Is Painless?
Craccum Magazine makes no apologies for this article. We know that suicide is one of the few taboo subjects still left in society. We know that New Zealand has the highest youth suicide rate in the world.
We don't know why this is, and we don't know guaranteed solutions to the problem. We are sure that a lot of people's suggestions on prevention or 'curing' suicidal tendencies are likely to be wrong. We don't believe that God, or psychotherapy, or anti-depressant medication are individually able to aid every suicidal person in the country.
All we do know is that support helps and silence doesn't. Years of misinformation about suicide being caused by backwardly masked lyrics in Judas Priest songs, or satanic cults, or marijuana abuse have led to finger pointing by people with an unwillingness to convey responsibility to other, more viable, sources.
Our prime reason for printing this article is to provide information. If you think that you want to commit suicide, you need to know what you're getting into. Very, VERY few forms of suicide are relatively painless. Those that are have not been listed - this guide is not intended to advocate or promote suicide. This guide is designed to explode the myth that suicide is a 'painless, easy way out'.
The human body does not want to die, and physiologically attempts to preserve itself. When you burn alive, your body curls into a foetal position. This is one main way that policemen identify whether a person was alive before they were immolated. When you fall, your body also pulls into a foetal position to attempt to minimize the damage. Blood clots to try to prevent death by bleeding.
The key point of suicide is over-coming the natural instincts of self preservation possessed by your body and mind. This is a decision that is not to be taken lightly, and while it is not the place of this particular article to moralise, it MUST be said that there is so much senseless death in this world already that you must make as informed a decision as possible on this most important of matters. People provide genuinely helpful support networks in the community, and there are always people to discuss
What follows has been printed in order to ensure that you know the full consequences of any decision you make to end your life.
Death by gunshot
There is a reason why so many attempted gunshot suicides leave the victim alive, but ultimately comatose or ******ed. The brain is a lot more resilient than many of us give it credit for, and the bone structures of the human body are a lot stronger. Even if the gun is on your temple/in your mouth before you pull the trigger, recoil almost guarantees that it won't be in the right place when the bullet is ejected from the gun. You can VERY easily remove part of your frontal lobe and still be alive and (rel
If you care even slightly for the people who are probably going to find you, you will stay away from this method. If you're such an ******** that you want your family's last memories of you to be scraping your brains off the furniture, the reasons you have chosen to commit suicide may well require examination. See the box-out later in the article.
Death by Carbon Monoxide (Car exhaust fumes)
A Craccum reporter related this story about one of the supposedly least painful ways to kill yourself :
"When an acquaintance of mine killed himself using exhaust fumes, he became so disfigured the police wouldn't allow his family in to see the body. All of the capillaries in his face burst, his eyeballs popped and his tongue was so badly swollen that it protruded from his mouth and held his jaw in a totally unnatural position."
This is in stark contrast to the widely held belief that one just falls asleep. Carbon monoxide works in the following way - haemoglobin, the body's way of carrying oxygen around the body, mistakes the monoxide ion for oxygen and 'absorbs' it. The difference between oxygen and monoxide is that monoxide 'sticks' to the haemoglobin, and isn't removed. This means, in short, that actual, life-giving oxygen is no longer distributed throughout your body.
Motor Vehicles (Driving a car into anything)
Remember what we said about your body's survival instinct? No matter how much you are sure you want to kill yourself, your body will almost invariably press the brake pedal at the last moment. This reaction is almost involuntary, and your psychological demeanor will do little to avoid it. Also you will curl and/or shield your face to try and reduce damage.
Be aware that because of this protective instinct, you may well survive the initial crash. Much like the road safety advertisements on television, your secondary concern is whether or not you'll survive the car igniting or subsequent bleeding. If you've changed your mind in the interim, there's not that much you can do about it.
In America, some insurance agents gauge whether or not an automobile death was suicide or not by measuring, amongst other things, the distance of the tire marks to indicate when the driver started braking.
Drowning
Surprisingly, death by drowning has been related to us as one of the more pleasant ways to pass, once hypoxia has set in (reports which have, rather obviously, been obtained from people who have been resuscitated after clinical death).
If only it were pleasant up until that point. Struggling will lead to a build up of lactic acid in your muscles, and when you combine that with the lack of oxygen in your system, you face the possibility of any or all of your muscles cramping. If you are within grasp of air, you WILL struggle to reach it. People who have drowned describe the state of near madness attained before accepting the first gasp of water into your system.
Taking Too Many Pills/Poisoning
First things first, make sure that the pills you've got will actually kill you. Many will ruin a vital organ in your body like the kidneys or liver. Painful, yes - death, no.
Your body will utilise its survival instinct and try to evacuate the poisons - in other words, you are likely to vomit your lights out. You don't have to remove all of the toxins from your system in order to survive, and you may well wake up in a few hours time feeling like death, but not actually being dead.
Also, while not wanting to belittle any person's suicidal wish, if you DO happen to change your mind, with certain medications will leave you alive for a period of many hours. Remember too that many of the most common pills and chemicals around the house (Aspirin/Panadol, Window Cleaner, Battery Acid etc) will make you endure the most agonising death possible. In particular, bleach and dishwashing powder work by eating through your stomach and spreading through your other internal organs. If you regurgit
Hanging Yourself
When hanging was a form of capital punishment in England, hangmen were veritable scientists in their trade. An equation exists that is still readily available on the internet. It links body weight to rope length, and is used to calculate an 'ideal' hanging. If the rope is too short, your neck doesn't snap at the right time, and you will die by strangulation. If the rope is too long, your body accelerates so much when you fall that you are more likely to decapitate yourself.
Unfortunately, if you try this at home, it's unlikely that you're going to have such a perfect passing. It has been documented in several hanging cases that the victim has been found with burst eyeballs (pressure build-up in the head), snapped spine (from bucking and struggling in the noose) and burst sphincter. Also, most homes are not equipped with objects capable of supporting the weight of an accelerating adult body.
If you doubt that your body tries to avoid death, no matter what your mindset is, examine some autopsy evidence on the internet. Many people who hang themselves claw marks into their necks trying to avoid death by hanging.
Jumping Off A High Surface
Don't buy into the long defunct theory that you die of 'fright' before you hit the ground. You'll experience a level of sheer terror that might make you wish you were dead, but that won't come until later. Possibly.
If you haven't chosen your location VERY carefully, chances are good that you will survive your fall, but be very much the worse for wear. You can never overestimate how far you can fall, especially when your body will naturally curl to minimise damage. People have survived falls of over 20 stories without a scratch, whilst others have died falling off the roof of a one storey house. If you honestly just want this life to end without trying to make a display for other people, this is not a way that you want
Coincidentally, it's urban legend around these parts that most people that jump off the Harbour Bridge survive the fall, but get stuck in the mud that forms the base of the Hauraki Gulf.
Slashing Your Wrists
By now, most people will know that it's easier to die by slashing your wrists in a line from hand to elbow (as opposed to the lateral technique favoured in movies). What the majority of people don't realise is how REMARKABLY hard it is to drain enough blood from your system without the wound clotting, no matter how deep it is. The actual artery that you have to cut is located between the tendons in your wrist. To cut it effectively, you have to slash at your wrist several times, parting each wound as you
The movies have got it right in one respect however - killing yourself in a steamy bathroom. The reason for this is not simple shot staging or dramatics. The theory of the bath is to keep the wound open, with both the water and the heat fighting blood coagulation. Also be aware that even if you faint, you still have more than enough blood in your system to survive for a long time. The wound may well close while you are in this condition, and you will survive.
Decapitation by other object (Train for example)
If you've read the rest of this article, and noted the body's propensity for damage avoidance, you will get an idea about what happens in this case. If you can SOMEHOW keep your head on the tracks in the above example for long enough, with the noise getting louder and louder and with the painful anticipation, death is fairly certain.
A painless death is less certain. Whilst we are not chickens that can survive for minutes after decapitation, there is evidence to suggest that the mind will function sufficiently to register the horrific pain that you are enduring.
Cranial Penetration (with a needle/sharp object)
If you've only heard half the story, you might understand this method to be painless. It is true that the brain itself feels very little in the way of pain due to the absence of nerve endings there. The pain comes in trying to insert an object INTO the brain. The most obvious way is through the ear, as the bone plating is far weaker there.
Even IF you manage to keep constant pressure for long enough to penetrate the brain, you're still left with the problem of death by gunshot. You could severely impair your neurological functions, but still be left alive.
Box-out : While many 'triggers' of suicide do involve issues like difficulties in expressing your true feelings (especially with regards to gender roles and/or homosexuality) , anger or spurned affections, you should think VERY carefully about deciding to kill yourself because of another person. You won't be around to see your funeral, or their reactions. Also, if someone doesn't care about you in life, they may well not care that much in death either.
Here is an editorial piece from the editor of the time who has fairly recently been convicted of Sedition.
Again this is not condoning Suicide and is a way for you to realise why not to commit suicide.
Last Call
By Tim Selwyn
It is time we had a real debate about the nature of suicide. In the barrage of propaganda from the government, in which they use our money to convince us that we ought to keep living, they will never offer a philosophical justification. They bark, they demand, they tut-tut, they wag their finger and they organise conferences, and always the answer is the same: more money must be spent, the government is not doing enough. If the correct answer is more money and government intervention, the question itself must surely be wrong.
But the government, the medical-psychiatric-counselling fraternity, the coroners, the do-gooders and the media, collude in a consensus of denial because they do not want to face the home truths that suicide brings. Suicide is a personal act that is treated on a macro scale in most people's thinking; and it suits the interested parties in this self-enriching and self justifying game to keep people in ignorance of the issues behind their convenient approach. The hysterical reaction to an earlier (and subsequently unpublished) version of this article by the university counsellors illustrates the intellectual bankruptcy and propagandist nature of the suicide industry and the weakness of the press. The hypocrisy of the crusading zealots who claim to want a debate on the suicide issue is quite clear - they want the exact opposite: a soapbox for their lobbying and censorship of ideas contrary to their interests.
In an era where millions are spent to officially endorse mental illness, in an attempt to legitimise and normalise human weakness and insanity, we could be forgiven for thinking that the final decay of our society into an Orwellian freakshow of the Politically Correct variety is dawning like a mushroom cloud on the horizon. Ironically enough, it seems the more we try to be liberal the more illiberal the results. The crime rate soars as fast as psychologists emerge to create new and evermore implausible "syndromes" to excuse it. The weak feel vindicated and the evil are encouraged - disturbing times. Is it any wonder that some high-profile politicians of the left, acting unwittingly in their capacity as parental role models have had children who have suicided?
Would they ever suggest that maybe the parents should take reponsibility for their children's moral development and character? Or would they say it is the State's duty? Either way, they know in their hearts, after the rhetoric and the ideological dogma has been trotted out that it was the personal decision of their child, insane or not, and not any defect of government that is ultimately responsible. The significance of the values that their parents instilled in them will remain a moot point.
Is it any wonder that in our society where values are in flux, and self discipline is waning, that in this age of wealth and unparalleled access to hedonistic consumer goods, where the fear of war and destruction is a by-gone memory, where the life expectancy is still climbing ever upwards, that in this environment it is precisely because of this sterile and safe world that people can now suicide over the silliest things because we have the luxury to think about them and brood over them where once we were to busy eeking out an existence to worry about such matters. This may only explain a fraction of the youth suicides, and means that it is a good indicator of how economically well we are doing. If this minority cannot cope in a nihilistic society because they fail to value themselves, then so be it. It is their own fault and their own decision, we simply cannot reinstate compulsory military training so that the handful of would-be suiciders can be given meaning to their lives. This does not go down well in a society where, crazy as it seems, if noone is to blame then it is assumed that everyone is to blame.
All suicides are usually lumped together by the authorities regardless of circumstance. This suits the lazy-minded and adds to the shock value of the lobbyists generic and always hyperbolic claims of "crisis" so as to justify vast expenditure and gain kudos for the person who can cry wolf the loudest. The media can be relied upon to shame itself with a total lack of analysis. Because suicide as an issue defined in parameters set by themselves and has only one monolithic side, and no counter-argument, the "crisis" angle can merrily spin like a perpetual motion machine: there's a suicide - isn't it awful - everyone says the gummint should do something - isn't it awful etc. etc.
Well people suicide for all manner of reasons, none of which can be helped by intervention, and most of which should not. People will tend to kill themselves if they perceive they are in a desperately hopeless predicament. Information to put this predicament into perspective may assist in the cases of a minute minority. But we can never assume that our perspective is the right one for someone else, or that their answer is not the right answer: and if their anwer is suicide then so be it. If we can respect every other decision they make then we ought to respect the ultimate one.
As for suicide being a "selfish act," it's far more selfish that a person should want someone alive for their own benefit. Firstly, there is nothing wrong with a selfish act if it is as important to the suicider as it obviously is, and secondly, the point of other people's existence ought to be determined by themselves rather than others, as it would mean that we only exist as slaves with no recourse to the ultimate in self-determination: self-destruction. If suicide stands for anything it is that it is others who are selfish. Is it others, the government, who should determine that we must live? If we cannot choose to die then it follows that we cannot really choose to live, and that it undermines the value of living. Through history we see the religious and the government authorities removing people's right to the final escape, in their attempt to remain in control of life itself.
Then there is the alarming thought that it is the living who are wrong and the suicide was the one with enough courage to put an end to it all. It is our pride, and our patronising arrogance that leads us to scorn and then to lament the him or her. We ask ourselves why do people suicide, when maybe we should be asking ourselves "why do we live?" The authorities would never risk telling people the obvious, that they must discover their own reasons to live, in case people find they don't have any. Darcy Clay suicided the day before he was to play a gig at an anti-youth suicide concert - a potent message.
As in the case of war and euthanasia, it can be quite rational, humane and appropriate to kill yourself, but it is the other instances of suicide that some people are unwilling to recognise as being the act of a rational clear thinking adult with all the facts in front of them. Apart from clear-cut instances of people shouting that they're god and jumping off a building in a superman outfit, suicides from deranged people would not make up the majority. It is not good enough to claim that depression is a mental condition akin to insanity either; after all how many people have thought "I'm so happy I could die."? Is happiness a mental illness too? Depressed people can make rational decisions and who is to say that suicide isn't one of them. Afterwards they may well claim that they are glad they did not suicide - but so what? It is like claiming you are glad you didn't go to a place that you have no information about or even know where it is. It isn't good or bad; it is what it is - final.
On the other hand there are no doubt many instances of people who were very sorry they didn't suicide when they had the chance. The horrors of this current war in Chechnya being an obvious example, but also social horrors and a life of misery in our society may warrant a mercifully curtailed existence.
The contention here is that suicide itself is a morally neutral act. The issues surrounding it, and the person themselves can be evaluated but the act itself is like their birth: it just happens. The person has their own reasons, an outsider's evaluation of the circumstances does not affect that. Some people suicide to avoid their worse fears, rejection in love, financial oblivion, social stigmatisation, incarceration and so on. Some fears, like the former ones are acute, and some are obtuse and morbid, like the fear of a living the rest of one's life in a meaningless mediocracy, the futility of existence in a world where one's goals will never be achieved, and so on. In both instances it would be justified that a person who was so pathetic as to let one relationship be the end-point of their life deserves to kill themselves, and a person who really was unhappy and unfulfilled would be better off dead since their position would not likely improve. Once again - it's all up to them.
The old man sick of his wife found in the garage, the businessman facing bankruptcy jumping off a bridge, Darcy Clay, a cop who shoots himself on a deserted beach, Kurt Cobain, a man found hanging in the back shed, the girl with a baby fostered out who drowns herself, and the man who "autocides" by simply driving off a cliff - they had all just had enough. They are young, old, black, brown, white, men, women, married, single, rich, poor, conservative, radical and could be the person next door. The only thing they had in common is the only relevant one: they had all just had enough.
We won't see a big ad campaign praising them, praising their courage to cross into the unknown abyss, praising their stoic fortitude in seeing through what others could not stomach, praising their ability to determine their own fate, praising their strength of will to overcome their survival instinct. The old chestnut about it being the easy way out is ridiculous, it must be an incredibly difficult decision - one involving much thought and mental stamina. These suicides are as close to gracious as it can get, with minimal involvement of others and the only ethical qualm being the degree to which people dependent on them are affected. Instead of praise the government actively encourages the ones who don't have the balls to see it through, and who insist on playing out the farce and dramatics to gain attention. It is the endorsement of the Clayton's suicide, that most wretched and detestable pastime of the useless and weak: an "attempted suicide."
The people who have the most suicide attempts are the ones who most deserve to get it right. The attempted suicide cheapens and debases the real suicides, and is not an attempt at all but a fake. It is the manifestation of self indulgence and self importance, with an air of the drama queen to add spice to their own little tragedy. It is a cry for help that ought to be answered by a bullet.
Each time the fake is enacted it is rewarded. The pathology is replayed as the faker becomes addicted to the thrill of a near-death experience and the resultant, usually feigned, compassion. The faker uses it as a mark of character when, of course it is exactly a mark of defective temperament and denotes a weak character. To boast of such faking (and they can go on about it) is contemptible and disgusting.
Faking is also the bread and butter of the counselling racket. Counsellors typically mirror their clientele: losers. Losers who choose to justify themselves by fooling themselves into thinking they are playing God with people (whose mere act of ringing up or talking indicates they are a faker in the first place). They see their pointless jobs as a calling, but they ingratiate themselves to fellow losers in gossip sessions and drama scenes because they get a perverse voyeuristic kick out of it, not only for a feeling of self importance. Fakers helping fakers - how very convenient it all is, the real suicide rate after a call to a crisis line must be incredibly low, and (a corollary of that) what a wonderful success rate they must enjoy. More money for them. Come on callers join the party.
In this sickening collusion add the coroners to the list. Those lippy mavericks, who literally are judge and jury (and act like they are the executioners) have their act of parliament to gag the press on all suicides and are only too willing to join in the rounds of finger pointing, pontificating and engaging in activist blather with the usual lack of intelligence that marks this phoney debate. As far as answers go they contribute nothing from within the safety of their lofty and unelected office. The level of the coroners' arguments seems to be hovering around that of talk-back radio after the pubs have just closed. And as for the brain-dead media, we have long stopped expecting anything less than reactionary fumblings as far as critiques of the status quo go.
The final segment of resistance to home truths is, naturally, the people close to the suicide. Every family somewhere along the line will have suicides in the closet. And every time it is the same: "we had no idea? Why didn't we know? Why didn't they tell us something was wrong?" and "if they did we would have helped." And there is always the other questions: how could a person we thought was good do something so bad to themselves? We feel let down, excluded, even humiliated, by their secretive actions, as if it were a personal betrayal. And at the same time we may feel partly guilty that it was our fault, our negligence, our failure that contributed to it. And since we have all been in that situation we may even project this guilt and blame on to society at large. Suicides being individual-specific and circumstance-specific, some scenarios may well be aggravated because of some individuals' actions, such as persecution or abuse. But our feelings towards the tragic act is all so futile.
Although tragedy would imply inevitability, the act of suicide must be premeditated to some degree, and still require a decision at the ultimate point. Our seeming irrelevance to their lives (and their death) may leave us bitter, and even lead us to a healthy questioning of the value of our own lives. What we must not lose sight of in these situations is that they had their reasons. No matter how foolish, old fashioned, bizarre, or misinformed their decision it was their decision and we ought to respect it. If they really thought they had to die then they deserved to die. The ultimate privilege was theirs alone to enact, and is neither good nor bad, it just is. We can't do a damn thing about it, and it's time we stopped acting as if we could.
Ends
My personal feelings on Suicide is that it is the Wusses way out. You try and gut it out or ask for help. I prefer the Gut it out approach, which I have done Personally. Life has its ups and downs and people that commit suicide are in a down part of their life and can't see the light that is there at the end of the tunnel. I believe in riding out the highs and lows as committing Suicide is going to do nothing but cause pain to your loved ones. As I have seen first hand as a one of My friends Brothers commited suicide and he found him. He is still dealing with it.
Da Vinci's Nightmare
WZCW's Own Arch Angel 0-1
My Lord them atricles were hard hitting.
My personal opnion is that sucide ISN'T the cowards way out, nobody truley know what is going on in the mind of someone who is suicidal, because I personally think the true people who are suicidal and are more likely to carry it through, will be the ones who don't say anything. I think people who "fake" suicide attempts, such as taking too many pills when they know some1 will find them are just attention seakers. But people who don't tell anyone, and keep it quite are more likley to suceed.
I think around 95% of people will have suicidal thoughts at one point in there life, and I don't think it is to do with been depressed. I was depressed and i never wanted to kill myself, I jus didnt want to do anything. But I have been suicidal, but I got over that, an it was to do with my nan been a christian. I wanted to see her in the afterlife (she is a devote christian, at the time I had my issues with religion) but now I know what would happen to you if you kill yourself.
There is help out there, but it won't help everyone.
My personal opnion is that sucide ISN'T the cowards way out, nobody truley know what is going on in the mind of someone who is suicidal, because I personally think the true people who are suicidal and are more likely to carry it through, will be the ones who don't say anything. I think people who "fake" suicide attempts, such as taking too many pills when they know some1 will find them are just attention seakers. But people who don't tell anyone, and keep it quite are more likley to suceed.
I think around 95% of people will have suicidal thoughts at one point in there life, and I don't think it is to do with been depressed. I was depressed and i never wanted to kill myself, I jus didnt want to do anything. But I have been suicidal, but I got over that, an it was to do with my nan been a christian. I wanted to see her in the afterlife (she is a devote christian, at the time I had my issues with religion) but now I know what would happen to you if you kill yourself.
There is help out there, but it won't help everyone.
I think it takes a lot of guts to want to take your own life away. It's definitely not something I'd ever be prepared to do. The anticipation alone would stop me before I'd even get a chance to kill myself. However, I do believe it is quite selfish, particularly if you have family and/or close friends. Your death would be made worse by the fact that you didn't value their relationships enough to "stick around".
Shadowmancer
I am The Last Baron
I know what you mean about Suicidal Thoughts but I still view it as the Cowards Way out, as I said above it leaves people behind it is perhaps the most Selfish thing a Person could ever do as they do not take into account what effect it could have on their Loved ones. Thereby making it the Cowards way out as they do not want to face the consequences of their life.
Oh and the Articles I posted were controversial at the time and now the media in New Zealand is taking a similar stance to these articles now after about 5-6 years. There was at one stage a large amount of focus put on Youth Suicide, but that foundation hasn't been seen as a big name in a few years. The Bit at the Top of the Craccum article about the most common ways to commit suicide is slightly wrong as New Zealand does not have and at the time of the Writing of the Article did not have the Highest Youth Suicide Rate in the World that "Honour" went to one of the Scandiavian countries I can't remember which one though.
Oh and the Articles I posted were controversial at the time and now the media in New Zealand is taking a similar stance to these articles now after about 5-6 years. There was at one stage a large amount of focus put on Youth Suicide, but that foundation hasn't been seen as a big name in a few years. The Bit at the Top of the Craccum article about the most common ways to commit suicide is slightly wrong as New Zealand does not have and at the time of the Writing of the Article did not have the Highest Youth Suicide Rate in the World that "Honour" went to one of the Scandiavian countries I can't remember which one though.
Whats your opinion on it? Bad, good, acceptable in certain situations, or a coward's way out? Have you ever known someone who committed suicide?
I ask this because it seems to be the only thing I think about these days. And I figured I'd see what the general consensus on suicide is here.
(PS: I'm not threatening suicide, so calm down people, thats not what this thread is about)
I ask this because it seems to be the only thing I think about these days. And I figured I'd see what the general consensus on suicide is here.
(PS: I'm not threatening suicide, so calm down people, thats not what this thread is about)
i think its the cowards way out. You were givin a life for a reason, and thats to live it not to take it away and kill yourself. If something is going wrong in your life look towards the future and see how you can improve the situation. If your at your worst right now, then it cant get any worse and it will only get better
AnthonyMango/NoFate007
A Post Is Worth A Thousand Words
Coward's way out.
I've always thought that the expression "you can do anything if you only put your mind into it" was just blind optimism...the kind of "it could be worse" delusion. However, at the same time, I think its pretty pathetic when people need to "look up to a hero" or a role model and copy them, because I feel they can do it by themselves and to simply replicate isn't anything to be proud of. Because I feel people can do it themselves, I think suicide is the most grandiose way of saying either "I'm too lazy to do the work to fix my problems" or "something is wrong with my mental capacity, and that's making it so I can't fix my problems, so I give up".
Self-sacrificial suicide, however, is heroic, but that's rare. If you knowingly set forth the actions that will lead to your death, but it means that you'll be saving everyone else in the process, then yeah, its honorable, but if you're just stressed out and you kill yourself, then I've always thought it deserves no pity.
I've always thought that the expression "you can do anything if you only put your mind into it" was just blind optimism...the kind of "it could be worse" delusion. However, at the same time, I think its pretty pathetic when people need to "look up to a hero" or a role model and copy them, because I feel they can do it by themselves and to simply replicate isn't anything to be proud of. Because I feel people can do it themselves, I think suicide is the most grandiose way of saying either "I'm too lazy to do the work to fix my problems" or "something is wrong with my mental capacity, and that's making it so I can't fix my problems, so I give up".
Self-sacrificial suicide, however, is heroic, but that's rare. If you knowingly set forth the actions that will lead to your death, but it means that you'll be saving everyone else in the process, then yeah, its honorable, but if you're just stressed out and you kill yourself, then I've always thought it deserves no pity.
Mighty NorCal
SHALL WE BEGIN?
cowards way out. Nothing can be that bad, and you hurt so many people around you so badly. You are not god, so it is not up to you to decide if you should be dead. Problems can be solved, things can be worked through, it just takes discipline, and determination. Suicide is for the weak Buck up, dry your tears, and fix whatever is wrong. Suicide is extremely selfish, cowardly and weak.
I ask only because I've been watching alot of the show 24 lately and thinking about how some fanatic Islamic terrorists just kill themselves so quickly when caught, and "martyr" themselves. Thought it was a rather strange idea. I mean not to be all philosophical or anything but how do you just immediately accept suicide like that?
It is the cowards way out. I mean life is hard we all know that! One minute you can be having the time of your life and hanging with friends and getting all the girls, next minute you can be causing a big accident on the freeway that sends traffic all the way back and get sued with a huge lawsuit (true story unfortunately). I mean if you thought life was easy then you're an idiot plain and simple (not any of you, just hypothetically of course). I mean like a poster above me said, suicide is a cowards way out and problems can be fixed. I have been depressed several times in my life, I have had people tell me all sorts of bad things that could make me want to kill myself, Im still here. It just matters on how you approach things. I mean life is a bitch, it doesnt mean you should just give up because in reality, you're not just destroying yourself, you're destroying the ppl who actually care about you and that is the most selfish thing.
HBK-aholic
Shawn Michaels ❤
NOT the cowards way out.
No one knows what you're going through, and if you feel there is no way to get out of your problems, it's your life.
No one knows what you're going through, and if you feel there is no way to get out of your problems, it's your life.
I completely agree with Becca. It takes balls to kill yourself, or even contemplate doing it. Besides, it's your life to with what you wish. If you're at your worst, and there's no prospect of significant improvement then why not end it and not continue your "miserable existence." I think that's the reasoning behind it.
However, I do think it is rather selfish in most cases.
Wasn't this in the chat thread? I'd merge it back if I could, but I just dinnae have the power.
However, I do think it is rather selfish in most cases.
Wasn't this in the chat thread? I'd merge it back if I could, but I just dinnae have the power.
This is a very touchy subject. I mean, yeah Suicide is often though of as a cowards way out, but not everyone knows what your to coward to face somtimes. True story, a few years ago in my graduating year, one of the teachers died early in the year of Cancer. He was a well known man across the provence, and a very educated individual, truely a great loss. A few months later, another teacher died of Suicide. This mans grandfather had died months earlier, and his own father less than a week earlier. He was at school that morning, left halfway through his first class, and it was during lasyt class that they anounced he'd shot himself.
What I'm getting at, is this all happened in the first half of the school year, near the end of january. Near the end of the school year, some students and teachers started to put up a memorial near the classroom of the cancer teacher. It's still there, a huge memorial with lots of painting and inside jokes refering to the teacher (records, ties, etc) but nothing was done for the teacher that commited suicide, even though everyone knows what he was going through.
What i'm saying, is it depends what your going through when you commit the suicide. Yeah, it takes balls to do it, but at the same time, for some people, it takes balls to stare what life throws at you and handle it. Yeah, it's your life, do what you want. Yeah, people around you will be hurt more than you are. Yeah, it's the cowards way out. All true points, and yet no one can really use these as excuses for someone killing themselves, cause most people don't know what a suicidel person is thinking when they go.
What I'm getting at, is this all happened in the first half of the school year, near the end of january. Near the end of the school year, some students and teachers started to put up a memorial near the classroom of the cancer teacher. It's still there, a huge memorial with lots of painting and inside jokes refering to the teacher (records, ties, etc) but nothing was done for the teacher that commited suicide, even though everyone knows what he was going through.
What i'm saying, is it depends what your going through when you commit the suicide. Yeah, it takes balls to do it, but at the same time, for some people, it takes balls to stare what life throws at you and handle it. Yeah, it's your life, do what you want. Yeah, people around you will be hurt more than you are. Yeah, it's the cowards way out. All true points, and yet no one can really use these as excuses for someone killing themselves, cause most people don't know what a suicidel person is thinking when they go.
Mighty NorCal
SHALL WE BEGIN?
if you feel as if killing yourself is the only way OUT of your problems, then you ARE a coward. Cowards find ways to get OUT of things. You arent supposed to try and get OUT of things, your are supposed to SOLVE them.
and once again I say, you are not your own creator, so how is it your decision to be made that you shouldnt exist anymore.
from what I understand, Jake's parents have both passed. And he seems fine to me. That man killing himself solved nothing, and didnt bring his Grandfather or father back did it? no. I am sure it really affected and saddened many students at your school though. Once again I say. Selfish.
Mighty NorCal
SHALL WE BEGIN?
to add, the only time I would commit suicide is if I were to be captured/killed, and strapping grenades to myself, would take out a bunch of them, and save a bunch of my guys. lol. that is the only time I find it would be acceptable. or taking a bullet for someone. Any situation involving self sacrifice were you know you arent going to make it, to save others. That is NOT cowardly in the least.
That's the problem. People who commit suicide often can't or think they can't solve their problems.
By that logic, your parents are the only ones allowed to kill you.
