Stone Cold- Overrated Due to The Austin-McMahon Feud?

[sharpsh00ter23]

I was just thinking about the WM 25 Hall of Fame and when Vince McMahon called Stone Cold the greatest of all time. My question is, would Vince would've still declared that claim had the famous feud between the two never occurred?

I honestly think that SCSA's legacy would've fallen short because IMO that particular fued was the cornerstone of his rise over the top. Would SCSA's merchandise sales been as high? Would his character really had been as well rounded as it was?

What if another superstar would've fueded to the magnitude that Austin did with Vince? Would Vince be calling them the greatest of all time instead?

 

[D-Will316]

Austin was a good face because Mr. McMahon was a good heel. I think as long as Austin had a credible heel against him he would have still been over.

 

[Smackdown!]

Personally if the SCSA Vince feud never existed the company would'nt be where it is today that feud really defined the E in wwe for ENtertainment. Besides SCSA is'nt te onlyperson to feud wit mcmhon remember Bret Hart had a heated rvalry with mcmahon alon with the The Demon Of Death Valley The Undertaker.

 

[BigAdz]

Austin was a good face because Mr. McMahon was a good heel. I think as long as Austin had a credible heel against him he would have still been over.

Disagree kinda.

Austin was originally slated to be a heel. But his "fuck you" style was just too identifiable to the fans that he was turned face. McMahon knew there'd only be on person who Austin could feud with to really make him shine: Himself.

And look how well it worked. Who here hasn't wanted to smack their boss over the head with a bed pan, fill his car with cement and douse his entourage with beer and not worry about getting fired cos you're just too damn good at your job? It was perfect!

No doubt Austin would've carried far without feuding with Vince but nowhere near to the same level.

 

[XgringolocoX]

Had Austin reached the height he did regardless of that feud? Sure. He sold so much merch and sold out so many big arenas it's not funny.
Austin started as a heel but was getting cheered. He was a face with heel characteristics. People loved his character. If you had the same run with the same events and just replaced Vince with another wrestler i still think Austin would have been as big. Sure some things would have to be different. Maybe vince never having that much exposure then would have been better for the company today. In any case it happened and it worked huge

 

[attitude_hero]

I wouldnt be a wwe fan ill tell you that much. Im still a fan of wwe/wwf because i feel im paying them back for all those great moments in 1998-early2002 that i witnessed with them but now i only watch because is what i have done since i was kid only im not passionate about it anymore. I had my hogan in austin and this generation sees austin in cena i cannot blame them for that, those kids that are the "only ones" who like cena will eventually grow up and they will remeber cena as the guy who made them love wrestling. sorry for getting a little out of topic there. To me austin-mcmahon was the attitude era...hearing austin talk about how he was going to kick mcmahon's ass was a joy each monday. Austin would still have been a big superstar but mcmahon helped him turn in to a LEGEND

 

[whitefox]

I think he would still be calling him the greatest of all time. Don't get me wrong, I know Austin V McMahon was massive. But I stopped watching wrestling in mid 96 and came back to it in 98... why? yes because of McMahon and Austin but also because of the other stars of the Attitude era; The Rock, Triple H, Undertaker, Mankind, Kane, xpac, Road Dog, The Godfather, Kurt Angle, The Hardys, E&C.... I could go on and on. I loved watching all of these wrestlers and the feuds they had, When you think of the Attitdue Era you think of Austin/McMahon and rightly so, but if their feud had never been, I still believe, given the talent and the writing at that time that Austin and the Attitude Era would both be thought of in the same way as they are today.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

my guess would be no, austin wouldn't of been as big as he became.

Even if Austin had the same feud with another authority figure it wouldn't of had the same impact because McMahon wasn't the heel. Austin would of still been champion at WM14 and he still would of been the #1 guy in the company, but it was his feud with McMahon that brought Austin to new heights and frankly if he didn't feud with McMahon he never would of reached those heights.

By that time everyone hated McMahon because of the screwjob, that night he became the top heel in the WWE, not only that he was the boss so as the top heel, he could do literally anything he wanted. Austin was a perfect foil to McMahon, he was in a sense bizarro McMahon, his exact opposite. Because Austin was so anti-establishment people wanted to see him beat on the establishment so to speak (ala McMahon), really Austin wasn't fighting McMahon, he was fighting the establishment, he was fighting his boss(and who doesn't like to see that), and without McMahon the Austin wouldn't of reached the heights he did because if he was feuding with, lets say the Rock, it wouldn't of been as big because the Rock isn't the boss, he wasn't the establishment, he was just apart of the establishment (he was McMahon's hand picked champion, but he wasn't McMahon, he was the last stop/roadblock before McMahon).

Without Austin fighting not only McMahon, but the boss, establishment and entire WWE, he never would of reached the heights he ultimately did, Austin still would of done very well, but his popularity wouldn't of been as big as it became without his feud with McMahon.

 

[Legend_Killer]

I think that he could do this with another good heel and he could do that but not as good as with Vince McMahon because he was one of the best heel and he still could be
You gotta agree that Vince is smart

 

[Midnite Express 2009]

This was a good question. My opinion is that it would have had to fizzle sooner or later, let's say in 2003 instead of 2001. Austin was injuried and was about to call it a day, and I believe the storyline basically committed suicide when Austin sided with McMahon at WM X-7. I know Austin pretty much had nowhere to go but down at that point since he was still on top, but that was just so over the top and unbelievable that they knew it was time to shoot the dog in the head, so to speak.

But I do believe no one could have taken Austin's place as McMahon arch enemy (as example, DX, Randy Orton and a few others have tried and pretty much failed). So again, it would have been forced due to time and circumstances to have changed or die (i.e. the introduction of the PG era)

 

[D-Man]

It's too difficult to tell. That's like asking a BMX superstar if they would've achieved their goals if their mommy and daddy never bought them that bike when they were 12 years old.

The feud between Austin and McMahon was one of the MANY elements that created the formula for dynamite in Stone Cold Steve Austin and launched his career. However, Austin was well on his way to becoming a megastar after his feud with Bret Hart. Once the groundwork was laid after KOTR and his WM submission match with Bret, Austin became a superstar. The feud between him and McMahon definitely helped his career, but I don't think we should view it as the feud that truly made him who he is portrayed as being today.

Austin's attitude and persona was very unique. He was a take-no-shit-from-anybody type that rebelled against authority and was such a great bad guy that it made him cool. Austin and the Rock redefined how the audience viewed a WWE character because they both were "so bad that it was good." People couldn't get enough of these two because they brought such different flavors to the table of a cookie-cutter product. THAT'S what elevated them to where they are today.

Vince McMahon has learned to appreciate the talent that he has brought into the WWE throughout the years. Even though he was involved in (what some say was) one of Austin's greatest feuds, I think he knew that even without it, nothing was going to stop Austin from becoming the WWE's greatest superstar. Now, would he have said those exact words at Austin's induction if the feud never happened? It's too hard to tell. But, I think that if it WASN'T said, everyone would have already been thinking it.

 

[silrock316]

It would be hard to judge exactly how big Austin may have been without this fued but anyone that was watching Austin, especially around the Bret Hart fued and the WM match the two had, it was clearly apparant this guy was going to be huge. He was everything you weren't use to seeing on tv and people ate it up.

Putting that type of character up against his BOSS and let him do the samethings (cursing, flippin the bird, drinking beer) all while at work was perfect by Vince. And people just related to it. But the phenomanon known as Stone Cold Steve Austin would have taken off regardless, it was just undeniable at that time in pro wrestling.

 

[Gotahn]

I think Austin would not have been as huge and instead of saying Austin-Mcmahon. we wuld be saying Austin-Rock. Which was still huge but not as big as Austin-Mcmahon. That fued told the fan it was okay to disobey your boss and go against the rules. Back to the question though, Austin would not have been the greastet but still one of the greats.

 

[pessimism101]

If the Austin-McMahon feud never happened, I would have been a lot happier watching WWF. To me, Austin is nowhere near the greatest of all time. Basically all of his matches were identical and he was limited to all of 6 moves (punching and kicking are NOT moves...) If this feud never happened, Austin most likely would have been a more solid ring performer and I'd have more respect for him than I do now. The feud was one of the worst main event feud I've ever witnessed and good riddence to it.

 

[GameOver]

PFFT Austin was a good draw card b4 he joined WWE and still would have been a main eventer, WWE just took him and put him at the top and it worked and putting him against the boss of the no#1 show just put the icing on the cake specially the whole screw the rules and the boss attitude.

He still needed all the other anti-austin's that existed during that era, i don't think the impact would've been as great if he didn't have Bret Hart, DX, Rock, Taker, McMahon and the rest of the cast at the time to play off of. it was a complete package that just happened to put Austin 316 as the top spot for most of it.

for instance if Austin 316 was in WCW at the time stunning Eric Bischoff, few woulda given a shit.

as for the punching and kicking 6 move style.
WHEN WILL PEOPLE LEARN, THATS WHAT MAIN EVENTERS DO!
Theys stick to a few key moves they can do without fucking up
John Cena does it although he even fucks that up, Triple H does it, Taker does it, Nash does it, Steiner does it, hell even Kurt Angle does it for the most part and he's a legit wrestler

a huge chunk of matches Hogan/Ric Flair ever did were pretty much carbon copies. Kevin Nashes matches consist of a few punches, an elbow strike and a big boot then a Power bomb, with a lot of stumbling around pulling his hair back in between, and god awfull promo's yet he's considered a legend?.

They know fans only want to see a few signature moves and a finisher and some catch phrases, everything else is boring to the TV generation who have the attention span of a fish

onto the era, Austin didn't start it anyway HBK, Triple H and Bret Hart were already starting attitude b4 Austin got there, so he can't be given the props for that, and attacking the boss "hangon" Bret Hart had already done that and DX were already making mockeries of the bosses

the Austin character just took it to a new level, he was the next Hoganesque type, nothing you can do to him will put him down for long and charisma off the chart.

Face it he portrayed one of the most influential characters that ever came through the ropes and history won't change that, Austin was the face of the attitude era. as Hogan was the face of the 80's

or if you don't believe that then you can lump Hogan/Flair/Sting and pretty much every major player into that way overrated, its purely a personal thing.

I can't stand John Cena, yet he's the face of the curent WWE generation and is a huge drawcard.

 

[Vinnymanvinny]

pessimism101 you have to remember that by the time Austin got really big he could not perform at the same level anymore. Once Owen Hart hurt his neck he was never the same wrestler again. If you watch his matches in WCW and ECW he was really good. As far as good matches go if you really want to watch good wrestling matches I would recommend Amateur wrestling where it is not scripted. Think about it if Cena wrestled Brock Lesnar, Bret Hart, Ric Flair (prime), Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Jericho, and in a legimate wrestling match he wouldn't have a chance. Oh and Shelton Benjamin, the guys I just named were/are legitimate wrestlers with real wrestling talent. Its funny how the biggest superstars are not great wrestlers. Now Stone Cold was not the best technical wrestler but he was good before he got hurt.

 

[Toroc102]

Austin was picked for a reason, he was already the bad ass rebel before he had anything to do with McMahon, maybe Michaels would've done it but obviously his back was hurt so not him.

Anyway I kind've think this is a pointless question, it's like asking what if anyone wasn't involved in their big money story. What if Hall and Nash hadn't been in the nWo? What if The Rock had never feuded with Austin? What if Goldberg just dominated people but didn't go for 182 or whatever, if you take someones biggest storyline away of course they wouldn't be as well remembered as they are now.

 

[wwefan2010]

I dont think Stone Cold would have as good of a career without his feud with Vince. I mean everytime you think of feuds Vince has had you think of Austin 1st. I mean Vince had feuded with UT, DX, Rock, his own family etc. and the 1st one you think of everytime is Austin/Vince. Its just too bad that he suffered that neck injury. I wonder how much longer his career would have been and if he would still be wrestling today and not yet be inducted into the hall of fame. We could have possibly seen Austin vs Orton.

 

[silrock316]

I dont think Stone Cold would have as good of a career without his feud with Vince. I mean everytime you think of feuds Vince has had you think of Austin 1st. I mean Vince had feuded with UT, DX, Rock, his own family etc. and the 1st one you think of everytime is Austin/Vince. Its just too bad that he suffered that neck injury. I wonder how much longer his career would have been and if he would still be wrestling today and not yet be inducted into the hall of fame. We could have possibly seen Austin vs Orton.

The only reason you think, and maybe I shouldn't say you personally but most people tuned into to watch wrestling during that fued. Folks who weren't 80's wrestling fans that is. Therefore you probably or they probably don't remember Hart/Austin. Which to me is his best fued.

You all must understand this... Austin 316, the king of the ring speech, put Austin over and then it was extremely elevated with Hart/Austin. The McMahon fued was just the tip of the iceberg.

For those of you who think Austin only had a few moves, go get some stunning steve matches on video and THEN TELL US longtime Austin fans he only has a few moves. His character was a BRAWLER why would you see figure four leglocks and hurricanranas etc. etc.?

 

[D-Man]

For those of you who think Austin only had a few moves, go get some stunning steve matches on video and THEN TELL US longtime Austin fans he only has a few moves. His character was a BRAWLER why would you see figure four leglocks and hurricanranas etc. etc.?

The problem is that many fans are either ignorant or don't remember Austin before he broke his neck in 1997. The momentum of Austin's fanbase came after he already established himself by winning the KOTR and by feuding with Bret Hart. No one seems to look back further into his career to see that he was actually one of the better technical wrestlers of the 1990's.

The persona that started him in the WWE, The Ringmaster, was based on the fact that he was Ted DiBiase's protege largely due to his in-ring technical prowess. Once he realized that the Ringmaster gimmick was going nowhere and he decided to start acting like himself (with the volume turned up), the audience started to relate to his rebellious character. Then came Wrestlemania 13 and his classic match with Bret Hart that truly put him on everyone's radar. Just five months later he broke his neck at Summerslam against Owen Hart and his wrestling style would be forced to change forever just to keep him working without killing himself.

By that time, Austin didn't need to be a technical, in-ring master. Thankfully, he already had the fans by the balls.

 

[silrock316]

The problem is that many fans are either ignorant or don't remember Austin before he broke his neck in 1997. The momentum of Austin's fanbase came after he already established himself by winning the KOTR and by feuding with Bret Hart. No one seems to look back further into his career to see that he was actually one of the better technical wrestlers of the 1990's.

The persona that started him in the WWE, The Ringmaster, was based on the fact that he was Ted DiBiase's protege largely due to his in-ring technical prowess. Once he realized that the Ringmaster gimmick was going nowhere and he decided to start acting like himself (with the volume turned up), the audience started to relate to his rebellious character. Then came Wrestlemania 13 and his classic match with Bret Hart that truly put him on everyone's radar. Just five months later he broke his neck at Summerslam against Owen Hart and his wrestling style would be forced to change forever just to keep him working without killing himself.

By that time, Austin didn't need to be a technical, in-ring master. Thankfully, he already had the fans by the balls.

Exactly, it just gets so frustrating when I hear people talking about Austin's fued with Vince being the only true fued he has had. Hell, even that fued you touched on with Owen was a great fued. Austin then went on to fued with The Rock while he was IC champ and propelled the Rock to midcard level. This is a frustrating topic to me because as you said ignorance or lack of knowledge propel people to say things without fact behind it.

 

[pessimism101]

I know full well that Austin was a good wrestler prior to the Austin-McMahon feud. I'm saying I lost respect for him a as a wrestler because of the feud because it limited what he did in the ring.

I will also NEVER forgive Austin for the whole "What?" thing....

 

[GameOver]

The only reason you think, and maybe I shouldn't say you personally but most people tuned into to watch wrestling during that fued. Folks who weren't 80's wrestling fans that is. Therefore you probably or they probably don't remember Hart/Austin. Which to me is his best fued.

You all must understand this... Austin 316, the king of the ring speech, put Austin over and then it was extremely elevated with Hart/Austin. The McMahon fued was just the tip of the iceberg.

For those of you who think Austin only had a few moves, go get some stunning steve matches on video and THEN TELL US longtime Austin fans he only has a few moves. His character was a BRAWLER why would you see figure four leglocks and hurricanranas etc. etc.?

I actually think Austin/The Rock was the better fued.
Austin vs McMahon wasn't a fued over titles or even between the two in matches, though they did wrestle which wasn't any good, it was Austin vs the entire WWE heel base and even faces aswell thats the difference, that no matter what Vince threw at him he overcame it in the end.

Austin/The Rock, Austin/Triple H, Austin/Taker, Austin/HBK, Austin/Hart were all wrestling based fueds over titles for the most part

Austin would also be remembered for his many catchphrases and the beer salutes/baths

Which still would've happened if he'd never fueded with the boss.

Something else to note most of the other top stars have fueded with Vince aswell, but never to the same level and length that Austin did

 

[666_The_Game_666]

Depends Austin was a rising star in 1996 with Austin 3:16 and i think that his 97 feud with Bret and the Hart Foundation put Austin over as a face. The McMahon feud was just something that pushed Austin to the point of the top guy in the company