Still "Looked Down Upon?"

[Best in the World 79]

FAKE WRESTLING
Today's topic is fake wrestling. As stated by ESPN/AP about former WWE superstar Brock Lesnar.

So, simply because professional wrestling has a sript, therefore the outcome is predetermined, and because sometimes the wrestlers coriograph a match before it actually takes place, that has to make it fake?

I completely disagree.

Here's obvious reasons why:
The bumps, bruises, cuts, botched moves, going through tables, getting hit with chairs, getting hit with ladders, superplexes from the top rope, slams to the outside of the ring, getting thrown into the barricade, I'm sure all of these items inflict pain somehow. Therefore, it is not fake. Scripted or predetermined does not reflect the definition of fake. When the refer to a WWE wrestler, they say "fake" wwe wrestler. So, when they talk about an actor for a movie do they say "fake" movie actor. Probably not.

People outside of the wrestling world, or people who knock it, or people who do it out of spite, shut the fuck up. It is definitely real. IF it wasn't, we wouldn't be on here so worried about the product we watch. Wrestling set an indoor attendance record. Kind of a big deal. Set numerous records for numerous venues. Kind of a big deal. Has very recognizable figures. Fuck Hogan, Flair, HHH, and Stone Cold have been on ESPN I know for fact. So fuck all the fake bullshit. Go ask guys like Steve Austin, Shawn Michaels, The Undertaker, Kurt Angle. Go tell those guys it's fake and come back after the Doctor fixes your nose.

That is all.

 

[Steve-O-Matt]

Yeeeeah, you're kinda preaching to the choir here buddy. Every true wrestling fan thinks of this an a offical sport just like any other. I believe figure skating is a sport as well and that's seriously coriagraphed, LOL.

Anywho, pro wrestling is just a much a sport as any other in my opinion because these men are all competing to be the best entertainer and wrestler, just like any other sport. If they do well they move up, if not, then not.

I think it's a lot better then UFC because I've seen matches end in UFC in about 10 seconds when some guy is pulling on another's toe! That's considered a sport though...

 

[HBsam31]

Now upon seeing the title of the thread I thought it was going to go into wrestling in the mainstream. Now I have been a fan since i was a kid in the mid 80's and the only time so far that wrestling has been socially accepted was during the attitude era. Friends of mine that hated it loved it then. While they would still tease me that it was fake they were glued to the tv for every show and ppv. Crotch chopping in the school hall ways and telling people it didn't matter what their name is was the norm. What I am saying is quality of product does deter people from making fun of the product. Just something to think about. Now onto the topic you mention. I agree with you 100 percent. Ask Mick Foley if falling through the HIAC was fake. I remember that day watching with my friends and even the harshest critics shouted out with a resounding DAMNNNNNNNNNNNN lol. I think if most people cleared their heads of the crap and watched the product with an open mind they would honestly tell you it wasn't fake. Clearly they are taking real falls and bumps. Clearly the injuries are real. Wow if i said do not try this at home I would sound just like the warning before any WWE dvd. Point is people just was to shit on things other people like no matter what it is. Show these people that HIAC match with taker and Foley and the will believe.

 

[Richard Blonoff]

I'm a massive MMA and spend a lot of time on MMA forums and pro wrestling is looked down upon my a lot of people who refer to it as fake fighting and call it gay and other related words.

There are a good chunk of people who enjoy both, myself included, and can respect the athleticism of the athletes who stepped into the ring. Sure not every punch lands, and even from a young age I could tell the Undertaker's knees hit the mat instead of his opponents head, but the bumps are real and the skill required to do it are very much real.

 

[ITALIAN NYC]

SI.com and others have used the term " former fake wrestler " about his retirement. Dunno why all of a sudden there saying that so much.

The only thing fake about pro wrestling is that the winners are predetermined. Other then that, its all real. The bumps are real. The blood is real. The chairs are real.

 

[bigbootydaddyV]

I think a big part of it is the history of pro wrestling. You have to take into account when wrestling was first starting out people thought it was "real" and it was to the point where results were in the papers too I believe. Had wrestling not portrayed itself as real competition in the beginning it may not have the reputation it has today. Now, don't get me wrong, thinking it was real is probably what keeps it going and what got us all into it to begin with, but I can see how it got the stigma it does. It's a fine line wrestling walks because on the one hand, pretending to be "real" helps attract younger viewers which in turn keeps them for life, but if it were more apparent that it is two guys working together to put on a match then who knows what kind of rep it would get. I do agree though, the wrestlers themselves do NOT deserve the kind of reputation they get because it takes a lot to do what they do. I kind of wish Brock had been more forthcoming about how much toughness it takes to be a pro wrestler and used his UFC platform to help legitimize those guys as athletes rather than do everything he could to distance himself from it. It's really only going to hurt wrestling as far as the rep of being fake and second class when he ultimately comes back because it'll look like a huge step down.

It's a shame that sports stations still look at it as if it is an athletic competition, or lack thereof, rather than a co-op sport in which the ultimate goal is to put on a top performance like figure skating or DWS, come to think of it, I'd rather just take the haters than be in a class with those two haha.

 

[akrassikauda]

When I first started out I had a guy tell me it's fake nobody gets hurt,I took his arm applied and arm bar and told him there are many things that I can do to his arm right there and now but I let go. I only let go because of the lesson I learned from the great Gorrila Monsoon "Of course you could break someones arm with an arm bar, but in this business you just don't do that on purpose because the guy has to put food on his table just like you". That statement was from a documentary I seen on A&E in the 90's but in a real fight if I had a persons arm I know what I could do to it.

When I was still in high school I would go to school with injuries I suffered from wrestling practice, pulled or torn muscles broken fingers concussions a broken rib from attempting a five star frog splash and also like RVD I turned my body i mid air. Was it all worth it hell yeah, it's the same price my heroes had to deal with how am I any different.

So when some shithead says wrestling is fake I'll either laugh or tell them to feel a part of my body that doesn't feel normal and tell them I got that from wrestling. I am proud of every second that I wrestle(d). Going to the Dog House with my friends was worth it, seeing a couple of skinny guys training in there (Hawkins & Ryder) and seeing were they are now yeah well worth it. Watching a backyard fed finally go independent well worth it those guys rule because the pain they go through to this day doing what they love is inspiring it really is. When your not even 30 yet and have to crack bones in your body just to relax muscles to get out of bed and work on your craft is the shit. So don't tell me what I and others do is fake.What makes us any different from NFL,NHL players that they clamor are the toughest people in sports.

 

[Sinister Shadows]

Wrestling, is fake.

Most people that look at wrestling as fake, isn't in the sense of athleticism, isn't the risks that wrestlers take to entertain the fans. It's looked as fake, because undeniably, it's fake competition. It's two people going through a fight sequence, trying to make it look as real as possible, without either getting hurt. (although Hollywood has as many tries as they need, wrestlers have one)

People don't look down on fight scenes in movies because of the pre-determined, scripted nature, so I can't really understand why the same people do with wrestling.

 

[King of the Words]

Being a full - time professional wrestler has to be one of the toughest professions in the world. The hectic schedule, being on the road so much, missing family time, building up your body and getting over big or small injuries, in some type of pain on a daily basis, eating properly, booking hotels and flights, getting much needed rest, being at a certain place at a certain time ready to go, listening to others and mastering the art form, Taking crap for the big wigs and your peers, fighting to stay relavant in the industry and keeping your career on the up swing, etc... Pro wrestlers definetly don't get enough respect from the main stream media and half-ass fans. The matches may be scripted to an extent, but opponents need to put on a show together to entertain the audience without causing any major injuries to each other. It's stressful, taxing on the body and mind, not much of a future to it or much security. Pro wrestling, IMO, can only be done by the very few who can handle this amount of stress on a daily basis. This is pretty much their life, and when they retire a lot of them have to live the rest of their lives with the injuries they collected while in the business. To these tough people, pro wrestling is all too real. I for one respect them for how much they put into their work. To me pro wrestling has more in it that's real then that's fake. Real Pro wrestling fans will be able to see this. If you can't respect pro wrestling, then at least try to respect the pro wrestlers who put their life on the line day in and day out to entertain us. They're called professionals for a reason and what ever they get out of the business they certainly earn it. So Thank - you, I say to the pros for being tough enough and everything else, to entertain your loyal Pro Wrestling Fans.

 

[TheStone42]

This is one of only a select few topics that I argue with people about a lot of times. My opinion is this that WWE and pro wrestling is not fake. When pro wrestling began it was a legit sport. Sometime in the 1920s pro wrestling was developed from a 100% legitimate contest to pre-determined matches to keep the fans entertained and to tone down how long a contest would last. Back when it was a legit sport, matches could last over two hours! The athleticism of these athletes is amazing, and the brutality these men and women go through is sometimes devistating and career ending.
One of my favorite questions I heard from a documentary was, "Would you consider Hamlet fake?" Absolutely not! Wrestling is entertainment and is not fake!

 

[Best in the World 79]

Hell, i've heard things such as dog racing to be a sport. And I swear I heard poker as a sport once. Really? Card games. It's time like this that I am proud to be a die hard wrestling fan. It's when no matter if we hate cena or love him, or we can't stand michael cole, or we think the product sucks, or people love or hate cm punk, or even if daniel bryan is still trying to find his neck... we come together kind of and voice our opinions,(albeit on a wrestlezone forum) but it's the fact that we can all speak good 'ol stone cold sign language to anyone who talks down about our passion or calls what we love fake.

I always have, always will love professional wrestling. The drama, the stories, the characters, the memories, saturday night wrasslin'

Best damn sport in the world, IMO. Hands down

 

[IHW]

Its not fake, its planned.

Thats how i defend Wrestling.

ESPN should respect this sport. I think somebody needs to send the writer of this story a Justin Labar t-shirt.

 

[BASSER911414]

Well u cant really compare mma with pro wrestling because mma is two guys fighting to win by any means necessary. If a guy beats anoter guy in 10 seconds like a guy mentioned above that means the guy who won is just that damn good.

Pro wrestling however, is fake but not in the way people think. Its fake in the way that the same moves which can cause serious injuries have to be done safely yet there are others which dont hurt whatsoever. Chokeslams, suplexes, arm drags dont hurt worth anything. But pedigrees, big boots, jabs, crosses, armbars kicks can cause extensive injuries. Thats y I keep telling people that tough enough is scripted because the types of jabs and punches they pull knock out people in mma. Big boots break noses easy and so do dropkicks.

And the submission moves that guys like cena and all these people never tap out to, if done legitimately would cause SERIOUS injury not to mention kill. Sleeper holds work in seconds, armbars break arms in seconds, crossfaces can break necks, ankle locks snap ankles in seconds. And people tap out to these things in seconds not power out like Super Cena does.

And that is the difference between MMA and pro wrestling. One is real and one is not but not without its risks.

I train in mma and have an 8-1 amateur record and iv trained with pro wrestlers as well. What I realized while training with a prowrestler is that u have to go along with every move ur opponent does. E.g if he irish whips u, u have to run from rope to rope. U can stop whenever u want but pro wrestling is in essence acting so u go along with it.

I love MMA and pro wrestling. MMA more so but I agree that there is a certain skill required for pro wrestling.

 

[Best in the World 79]

Well u cant really compare mma with pro wrestling because mma is two guys fighting to win by any means necessary. If a guy beats anoter guy in 10 seconds like a guy mentioned above that means the guy who won is just that damn good.

Pro wrestling however, is fake but not in the way people think. Its fake in the way that the same moves which can cause serious injuries have to be done safely yet there are others which dont hurt whatsoever. Chokeslams, suplexes, arm drags dont hurt worth anything. But pedigrees, big boots, jabs, crosses, armbars kicks can cause extensive injuries. Thats y I keep telling people that tough enough is scripted because the types of jabs and punches they pull knock out people in mma. Big boots break noses easy and so do dropkicks.

And the submission moves that guys like cena and all these people never tap out to, if done legitimately would cause SERIOUS injury not to mention kill. Sleeper holds work in seconds, armbars break arms in seconds, crossfaces can break necks, ankle locks snap ankles in seconds. And people tap out to these things in seconds not power out like Super Cena does.

And that is the difference between MMA and pro wrestling. One is real and one is not but not without its risks.

I train in mma and have an 8-1 amateur record and iv trained with pro wrestlers as well. What I realized while training with a prowrestler is that u have to go along with every move ur opponent does. E.g if he irish whips u, u have to run from rope to rope. U can stop whenever u want but pro wrestling is in essence acting so u go along with it.

I love MMA and pro wrestling. MMA more so but I agree that there is a certain skill required for pro wrestling.

Maybe a little more than certain skill. If you can't take a fall correctly, you'll break your damn neck. Pretty serious. MMA and Wrestling. Totally fucking differnt. Most mma ears look like a fungus strange people eat. MMA is cool but fuck it's just two guys beating the hell out of eachother. gets old after a while. also i like story to go along with my action. i'm not gonna watch a bio of a fighter cause his family was poor and he fought his way to the top. fuck that noise. i wanna watch cena and rey mysterio in a handicap match vs undertaker big show kane mark henry dolph ziggler miz r truth and cody rhodes in a hell in a cell match with mick foley as the ref. that's fucking ratings eric bischoff

 

[Aquaman6686]

Wrestling is fake? Really? Tell the people who say that to talk to Droz, he'll tell you how fake it is. "Fake" and "pre-determined" are two different things.

 

[bjdc1204]

They are most definitely still looked down upon, and that's a damn shame!

Now I know pro wrestling has their many flaws, but I get tired of hearing people talk down to WWE and saying how fake it is!
But this is how I look at it...

Sports, in alot of cases, can be classified as fake.

I would certainly hope not. I would hope that my claims are false that it's a conspiracy..... especially against my teams may I add!!
But my point is, there's been many things I believe to be staged that's occured in sports... including the NFL & NBA!!! I hate seeing sports "writers" say how pro wrestling is fake, while i'm not so sure what they do is real anyways (just saying) !! I'm not 100% claiming that sports is fake, but I do have my questions & I do believe there's a current conspiracy going on.

On to "reality" shows.....

Now i'm almost 100% convinced that these shows are fake! The love shows, money shows, and whatever crap they have on VH1, Oxygen, Bravo, etc, nowadays are too predictable. Between wrestling, So-called "reality TV", and sports... I would say that wrestling is more real out of the group. Simply because....

Outside of it, they don't tell people "We're real". They tell you it's entertainment. Hell, that's what the "E" in WWE is for. But it's much more than that. Here's the thing. "Fake" and "Scripted" are completely 2 different words. Hell, sometimes the script doesn't even play a role in some things they do. At the end of the day, they're still putting in work, busting their ass, and taking bumps. Taking bumps wears down you, it can eventually catch up with you and cause injuries. What's the next accusation..... The mat is made of cotton?? Come on now, People should shut up if they have absolutely no idea what they're talking about!! WWE should not be looked down upon, but rather get credit for what they go through each & every week.

They don't have offseasons. They still perform on just more than live TV events. They also travel the world. They're the best athletes in the world. WWE simply does something others don't do..... They tell you their job is to entertain, instead of trying to fool people. Once they're out of the ring, they're back to regular people. WWE deserves the upmost respect for what they do.

Don't look down upon what you're no better than. That's all I have to say regarding this!!

 

[Defekt]

From the beginning of the business until about 15-25 years ago, pro wrestling was a sham and the fans were the suckers gullible enough to believe it was real.

Now days the business is much more open, and current wrestlers rarely stick to kayfabe during interviews, etc. If this trend continues, the mainstream will stop feeling like someone is trying to fool them, and start appreciating the business for what it is.

As it is, I think most people now days know wrestling is predetermined, but think wrestlers are much more protected than they actually are when taking bumps. Calling wrestling fake is pretty insulting to guys who live every single day in pain.

 

[ckoneagain]

Wrestling is like Santa, when you'e a kid you just totally believe in it 100%, no question, but then as you get older, you realise it isn't real, but that doesn't stop you enjoying it's presence in your life, you still get a kick out of it even though you know it's a fantasy. That's why people who didn't watch wrestling growing up can't then get into it later in life usually too, but to answer your thread, wrestling is fake, it's like a mix between a soap opera and a stuntman show, sure people get hurt and they have to train every day of their lives to be able to do it, but don't also actors and stuntmen?

 

[d_henderson1810]

The funny thing is, this is being discussed on www.wrestlezone.com, and yet this site employs a man who says that "wrestling is fake"- Mark Madden!

Madden even once said in a column that UFC and MMA is "real fighting" and WWE and TNA is "Fake fighting". He calls "wrestlers" "fake fighters".

So when a leading wrestling website employs a person who obviously hates wrestling, but got hired because he worked in WCW for five minutes, then it doesn't help matters.

Not that I am sticking my nose in wrestlezone's hring policy, but knowing how anal they have been to me lately (with all their private messages modding me for the slightest thing) it seems I might cop a suspension soon anyway.

 

[Pedigree1]

For people to say wrestling is fake you cant change their mind!! From my understanding the people who hate wrestling used to love it back when it was cool to like it!! Now seeing as how MMA has suprassed it now all of a sudden wrestlign is not cool!! Its just people following like sheep. I happen to enjoy both equally and i have to say i know just a little more about MMA than wrestling but not by much!! Wrestlers are gifted athletes they have one take to make a match look good!! Hollywood has hundreds and hundreds of takes!! Ha someone said call them a fake actor thats funny!! I shall use that logic throw people off!! Fake actors and fake movies does that mean hollywood is full of fake people? OMG it does damnit little jimmy you lied to me!!!

 

[THTRobtaylor]

When I first started out I had a guy tell me it's fake nobody gets hurt,I took his arm applied and arm bar and told him there are many things that I can do to his arm right there and now but I let go. I only let go because of the lesson I learned from the great Gorrila Monsoon "Of course you could break someones arm with an arm bar, but in this business you just don't do that on purpose because the guy has to put food on his table just like you". That statement was from a documentary I seen on A&E in the 90's but in a real fight if I had a persons arm I know what I could do to it.

When I was still in high school I would go to school with injuries I suffered from wrestling practice, pulled or torn muscles broken fingers concussions a broken rib from attempting a five star frog splash and also like RVD I turned my body i mid air. Was it all worth it hell yeah, it's the same price my heroes had to deal with how am I any different.

So when some shithead says wrestling is fake I'll either laugh or tell them to feel a part of my body that doesn't feel normal and tell them I got that from wrestling. I am proud of every second that I wrestle(d). Going to the Dog House with my friends was worth it, seeing a couple of skinny guys training in there (Hawkins & Ryder) and seeing were they are now yeah well worth it. Watching a backyard fed finally go independent well worth it those guys rule because the pain they go through to this day doing what they love is inspiring it really is. When your not even 30 yet and have to crack bones in your body just to relax muscles to get out of bed and work on your craft is the shit. So don't tell me what I and others do is fake.What makes us any different from NFL,NHL players that they clamor are the toughest people in sports.

To this day I use the same anology and put an armbar or full nelson on someone if they want me to show, but I generally just tell them how I would grab their arm and that it takes just a few lbs of pressure to snap the arm completely... I haven't wrestled for a long time, but I feel the effects of it every day, herniated disc check, ruptured one, yep... rotator cuff, check... and those came just from 5 years of wrestling in my late teens/early 20's...

The mainstream love to mock it because it is an easy target, if someone mocks their show they can say "hey at least we're not wrestling, we don't WANT that audience anyway"...

In reality though its been a popular entertainment form for over a century now in one form of another... I don't think in the next 10-15 years time people will still be doing it, but rather we will put out our own wrestling show with computers and the ratings battle will be between us... not WWE and other sports or shows... Create a story was just the beginning!

 

[JohnJohnson]

I've been a wrestling fan since I was a child and am still a hardcore fan. But the fact of the matter is that it really is fake. Yes people get hurt and the injures are real(well usually) but that doesn't make it real. The main reason it is called fake is because there are two different types of wrestling. One in which the wrestlers actually wrestle for real, like NCAA, and one in which the wrestling is not real, like WWE. Not real also means fake and that's were that comes from. The reason why professional wrestlers are called fake wrestlers, while professional actors aren't called fake actors, is because there isn't another kind of actor. Fake actor is redundant. Actors have accidents and get injured, while making movies, too. That doesn't make the movie real. Wrestling being called fake shouldn't be taken as an insult or something to be looked down upon. It's just to distinguish the difference between the real wrestling and the fake wrestling. Brock Lesnar was both, but his titles and achievements in the WWE don't add to his achievements when he wrestled in UFC or NCAA.

That being said, it is extremely annoying when people feel obligated to point out the fact that wrestling is fake anytime they see you watch it. For instance whenever wrestling is on or I talk about it around anyone that isn't a fan of it they feel it necessary to point it out to me, as if it was news. That would be like me ringing their doorbell Christmas morning to inform them that Santa Clause is fake.

 

[Oldschoolersrule]

I am 37 years old, and have been a fan for just about 32 of those years. Ask yourself this questions:

If its not fake, then why does a board of directors decide who the "Champion" is, instead of the best wrestler?

Its not real wrestling, its ENTERTAINMENT.... Ask Vince, he'll tell you that's what the "E" stands for in "WWE".

 

[Oldschoolersrule]

I have the utmost respect for the people I watch on the TV monday and thursday nights, I couldnt do what they do if my life depended on it, but you cant call it a true contest if the winner is already decided before the match starts.

 

[Unclerubbish]

Let's have it right, of course pro wrestling is fake. Two guys in a ring pretending to have a fight with a predetermined ending.
MMA is a sport much like boxing is and it only draws comparisons with pro wrestling (which is a show much like going to watch a comedian or a band only in a different vein) because it's one guy versus the other guy in a 'fight' and other added factors like Lesnar. The hardcore don't like the word fake and sit there and say "it's not fake, it's staged". Two words same meaning.
Realistically it's like comparing a shakespeare play to a football game.

With the advent of the internet it's much harder for people to suspend disbelief and just enjoy the show.

Oh I remember when I believed 20 years back, Roberts was having a snake bite savage, warrior took the belt from hogan, undertaker was unstoppable. I believed and I loved it.

Now it's all about in ring ability, which means fuck all to me if it doesn't entertain me. E.G Daniel Bryan nice to watch in the ring but is he entertaining otherwise?

These boys have a physical and risky job no question but to say it's not fake is ridiculous.