STFU Taz- Taz attacks Vince and WWECW

[Blueshirt]

On the main page of the site, it noted that Tazz took the WWE to task for their treatment of the ECW brand on a recent twitter post. Specifically he stated: "So,WWE ending their "vision" of ECW (thank god).ANY ORIG ECW wrestlers get a thanks? How about Paul Heyman did he get a thanks? Classy move!"

I have a few problems with this. Let's go through his complete post.

First, he complains that no original ECW wrestlers got a thanks. He is in a hypocritical position to demand thanks to original ecw wrestlers. Taz left ECW to join the WWF(E). He didn't give a shit about what happened to ECW when he left. When he decided to leave he was CHAMPION of ECW. Give me a break Taz. It's nice to talk about sendoffs and what should be done, but practice what you preach. You left for greener pastures. Plain and simple. Can you blame him? Absolutely not. ECW was bleeding out money and Taz wanted stable income. The WWE is doing what is best for their business, just as Taz did what was best for his financial situation.

Second, when Taz was cashing in those big pay checks from the WWE, he didn't complain about the "vision" WWE had for ECW. If he really wanted to be an outward spokesman for the old ECW, a) he never would have left the WWE and b) he would have quit the WWE when they brought back ECW on Sci-Fi in 2006. It's all well and good to have morals after the fact and to run your mouth when you are no longer dependent on your employee, but come on Taz, you should know better.

Third, Taz should be THANKING the WWE for bringing back ECW and scolding his old "ECW originals" for ruining the chance. Let's do a little history lesson. It's 2005, WWE decided to do ONS. What were people like Mike Awesome and Sabu doing pre-2005? Working in a PPV only format (aka no revenue) TNA or doing Indies. Not to mention people like Balls Mahoney. The WWE gave these wrestlers one last chance to excel at their sport. Fast forward to 2006, ECW has its spot on Sci-FI (now SyFy) and it is rolling. RVD just beat John Cena, ECW is rolling with a brand new champion to anchor the show. And what happens? Sabu and RVD are arrested for drugs! Wow, way to go fellas. So, it is these ECW originals that destroyed the chance of an old school ECW from working. Additionally, the WWE tried to do the hardcore gimic thing with the originals and it didn't work. If ECW had been drawing numbers, you bet your ass they would have kept it going in the original form. But the fact is, Taz, no one wanted to see Balls Mahoney go through a table 500 times. Sorry that your originals couldn't get the job done, but don't blame WWE for cutting its loses.

Fourth, why wasn't Paul Heyman thanked. It can't be because he has been badmouthing Vince and the WWE every single chance he has had since he was let go. If you're Vinny Mac (and this is one of the few times I have agreed with him) I would never thank Heyman. Heyman lost, plain and simple. He couldn't run a business and he couldn't deal with not being completely in control. To the victors go the spoils and in this case it is clearly WWE.

So, Taz, maybe you should concentrate at your announcing skills in TNA (for example, learning the names of wrestlers and moves) and allow the WWE to what they want with their product.

 

[Maikeru_1979]

i personally agree with Taz. Vince's "vision" of ECW was just what it was turned into. I never once thought when he brought back the ecw name that it was going to stay anything like the original for a great length of time. and the ECW original wrestlers brought in were only brought in long enough to get the WWECW off the ground. once that happened RVD lost the title, most of the originals were let go one by one until it was a bunch of nobodies(every rookie), has-beens, and never wills(Shetlon Benjamin) I haven't watched an episode of ECW since the day RVD lost the ECW title. I couldn't give a rats ass about it. But Taz is right. Vince should be thanking people like RVD, Sabu, Dreamer, Haymen. cause if it wasn't for them ECW would never have been in the first place. Vince don't give a damn about anybody but himself. Look at what he is doing to Bret right now.

 

[Smart Mark]

I also agree with Taz. He couldn't speak up when working for WWE because he'd be reprimanded, but Vince owes every one from the original ECW. ECW gave him great workers, writers, story line ideas, character ideas(stone cold saying in an interview his character is entirely based off the sandman) and if you want to go into how much money its made him, the first One Night Stand was the second highest bought pay per view of the year, and their ECW dvd's have been in their highest selling of all time. It was the success of the original ECW and the success of One Night Stand that allowed him to launch this brand to try and make more money off the ECW name. Vince had nothing to do with ECW and its even thanks to him that something hat got him one of his highest bought pay per views turned into his lowest rates show. You think syfy wanted a prowrestling show? Hell no, but its because people actually wanted to see ECW that they even got a channel. Vince is very classless in not only driving out every one from the original ECW but than not even thanking them for at least filling his wallet.

 

[T2KFreeker]

On the main page of the site, it noted that Tazz took the WWE to task for their treatment of the ECW brand on a recent twitter post. Specifically he stated: "So,WWE ending their "vision" of ECW (thank god).ANY ORIG ECW wrestlers get a thanks? How about Paul Heyman did he get a thanks? Classy move!"

I have a few problems with this. Let's go through his complete post.

First, he complains that no original ECW wrestlers got a thanks. He is in a hypocritical position to demand thanks to original ecw wrestlers. Taz left ECW to join the WWF(E). He didn't give a shit about what happened to ECW when he left. When he decided to leave he was CHAMPION of ECW. Give me a break Taz. It's nice to talk about sendoffs and what should be done, but practice what you preach. You left for greener pastures. Plain and simple. Can you blame him? Absolutely not. ECW was bleeding out money and Taz wanted stable income. The WWE is doing what is best for their business, just as Taz did what was best for his financial situation.

Second, when Taz was cashing in those big pay checks from the WWE, he didn't complain about the "vision" WWE had for ECW. If he really wanted to be an outward spokesman for the old ECW, a) he never would have left the WWE and b) he would have quit the WWE when they brought back ECW on Sci-Fi in 2006. It's all well and good to have morals after the fact and to run your mouth when you are no longer dependent on your employee, but come on Taz, you should know better.

Third, Taz should be THANKING the WWE for bringing back ECW and scolding his old "ECW originals" for ruining the chance. Let's do a little history lesson. It's 2005, WWE decided to do ONS. What were people like Mike Awesome and Sabu doing pre-2005? Working in a PPV only format (aka no revenue) TNA or doing Indies. Not to mention people like Balls Mahoney. The WWE gave these wrestlers one last chance to excel at their sport. Fast forward to 2006, ECW has its spot on Sci-FI (now SyFy) and it is rolling. RVD just beat John Cena, ECW is rolling with a brand new champion to anchor the show. And what happens? Sabu and RVD are arrested for drugs! Wow, way to go fellas. So, it is these ECW originals that destroyed the chance of an old school ECW from working. Additionally, the WWE tried to do the hardcore gimic thing with the originals and it didn't work. If ECW had been drawing numbers, you bet your ass they would have kept it going in the original form. But the fact is, Taz, no one wanted to see Balls Mahoney go through a table 500 times. Sorry that your originals couldn't get the job done, but don't blame WWE for cutting its loses.

Fourth, why wasn't Paul Heyman thanked. It can't be because he has been badmouthing Vince and the WWE every single chance he has had since he was let go. If you're Vinny Mac (and this is one of the few times I have agreed with him) I would never thank Heyman. Heyman lost, plain and simple. He couldn't run a business and he couldn't deal with not being completely in control. To the victors go the spoils and in this case it is clearly WWE.

So, Taz, maybe you should concentrate at your announcing skills in TNA (for example, learning the names of wrestlers and moves) and allow the WWE to what they want with their product.

Well, after reading your post, I have to disagree with a few points here. After the second One Night Stand, had you done some research, you woulf ind out that Vince McMahon was going to fire all of the ECW Originals on the first edition of ECW on Sci Fi. This was going to be done just to make the point that Vince had a "New Vision" of what was to come. Yeah, that would have been real smart. Why did they keep the originals? Funny as this is, but Stephanie McMahon, who HATES Paul Heyman and the concept of ECW talked Vince into it. Why? Smart Business. Fire the ECW Originals and then the original ECW fans you have lured in will run away immediatly leaving you with a pitiful viewership.

On the concept that "Nobody Wanted to see the Original ECW Wrestlers". Are you serious? Yeah, so many people didn't want to see the original ECW Wrestlers that the original ECW One Night Stand was not only the third biggest selling DVD of the year it released but it was also in the top 5 sold PPV's in buy rates. Now head into the second. Did it do well? Not as good as the original, why? People were pissed because they WWEfied it. "Well, even though the first PPV did so well, I have no faith that it will happen again, so we need to put WWE wrestlers as a huge part of the event and let the success run on their backs so that I can already start the claim that ECW would never survive without my WWE talent." Basically, Vince didn't even give the ECW originals a real chance to try and shine dude.

On the concept of Paul Heyman, you also have this all wrong, BIG TIME. Paul was not angry that he was not allowed to be in complete control of the ECW booking. He was mad because he was making logical suggestions that were not being listened to. Example; Sandman on the Poster and T-Shirt for December to Dismember. Paul pointed out several times that this was a horrible idea as he wasn't even scheduled for the Pay Per View. He knew the booking for the PPV was weak and not going anywhere so Paul made suggestions to make the card stronger and Vince fought him all the way to the point that Paul got accused for the event failing because he was in charge, but all of the matches were booked by everyone but Paul. This laed to him exploding at the ECW taping that next Tuesday which lead to his dismissal because he had the balls to tell Vince what really happened to the event and Vince didn't like someone challenging his "Genius" Vision of what HE thought ECW should be. You can't just throw together a Tag Team Match and slap it on as a Band Aid and hope that the event gets better. The Hardy's VS MNM was a great match but should not have been showcased at an ECW event. Also, just for the record, ECW on Sci Fi had it's highest ratings run when the original ECW wrestlers were on the show to nboot. Your theory about nobody wanting to see them just went through the floor and fell to the basement.

Lastly, the ECW Originals did not kill ECW, Vince McMahon did. Fans of the original ECW were very irritated when Vince won the ECW Championship. Yeah, that was a slap in the face to us. It was Vince "Proving" that anyone could be ECW champion, something that had been a joke in the industry for years because the ECW Originals weren't what the industry called the standard. Oh, and Bobby Lashley winning the title was a last straw for many of the original fans. If you look at ratings, this is where the show started falling off big time and fans weren't very interested at all. So before you go on about how Taz needs to back off and go all WWE happy, you really need to take a look at things from both perspectives. Paul may have screwed up ECW once in the end, but Vince did it TWICE. Once now and once during the "Invasion" storyline. If anyone is to blame for the jilted "Success" of ECW, it's Vinny Mac himself. Oh, and last thing here; Taking Joey Styles off of the mic was STUPID! You could never argue in a Million Years that the guys doing the announcing are better than he is. Again, another way for Vince to slap the original ECW fans in the face.

Lastly, why should the ECW Originals and Paul Heyman be thanked for their contributions to ECW? Easy answer. Without them there NEVER would have been an ECW in the first place. That's just a fact you cannot deny and that's that. There would have been no original concept to screw up. Hell, Tommy Dreamer didn't even get a Thank You, which is also garbage. Think what you want, but here are the stats. Vince did with ECW and the wrestlers the same thing he did with WCW when he bought it. He used the wrestlers from those companies when it suited him, but they got used as stepping stones for other talent and then thrown out to pasture because Vince didn't create it or them. It's what he does and will always do. This is why so many people in the wrestling industry actually don't like Vince. It is also why TNA fans never want him to buy the company as he would kill it immedialty and then take the top talent there and make them look as bad as he could on Television as if to scold them for ever daring to work anywhere other than WWE. How Dare They! He's Vince McMahon, Damn It!

 

[wbuqed]

If anything I think Tazz's comments are way way way too late, if anything Tazz shouldv'e been busting Vince for the hypocrisy of what ECW turned into when WWE got its hands on the franchise. I do agree somewhat with what your saying that Tazz is somewhat in the wrong for calling out WWE for jumping ship on the ECW idea

 

[proofinlife]

I see where Taz is coming from, but I agree with the OP in this thread. After reading his post many points were made that are very hard to disagree with.

1) Taz is a hypocrite for talking about due send-offs and respecting the roots, when he himself denied his roots, with their own belt, and left for the bigger paychecks, and in turn got buried. In this case, it's not exactly wise to practice what you preach.

2) To say Taz wasn't allowed to speak up is correct, but think of it this way. If he genuinely cared about the direction of ECW, he would've been trying to change it from the start, so he played the easy road and kept his mouth shut to keep the paychecks coming in. It's hypocritical to bash Vince for changing ECW when you don't open your mouth when the ****'s hitting the fan. You can't have your cake and eat it too, Taz.

3) 100% CORRECT that the originals are what destroyed any and all chances of any sort of "remnant" of the old ECW existing in the modern incarnation. The Drug fiasco aside (which was definitely a death knell to the originals), you had multiple guys who came from obscurity after ECW died, given a chance to shine and prove why ECW was so successful, and every one of them failed extremely hard. Sabu was painful to watch; most of his work in WWECW deserved WrestleCrap awards. Botches, Botches, and more Botches. Balls Mahoney couldn't get over going through tables, so they were forced to go the "sports entertainment" route and give him a "Girlfriend" in Kelly Kelly. It's not Vince's fault Balls couldn't get himself over. No one was being held down, they were given the opportunity to shine and they all failed at it.

Wrestlers can go on record stating how Vince "sabotaged" it from the beginning, but those wrestlers need to take their heads out their asses and see the truth for what it is. Vince gave them the chance, they mucked it up, now they're crying because their home isn't what it used to be. Wake up, Taz, your "boys" are the ones that killed it.

The whole Sabu/RVD Traffic incident with bag of pot proved that two of the originals' top guys couldn't professionally run with the environment, and had to go back to irresponsible drug use when they should've been practicing responsibility. I don't care if you're Rob Van Dam and you're a pot smoker, you're working for WWE where that is frowned upon and can get you suspended, either be responsible or gtfo.

 

[S_Raines]

First off, just to get this out there, MIKE AWESOME joined WCW while holding the ECW championship....not TAZ....

2nd, this is a business, this is how money is made, you go where the money is, that doesn't mean he didn't give a shit about ECW, it means he had bills to pay and mouths to feed, so he needed to head to WWE.

Lastly, it was the originals who sparked the interest in ECW, RVD came up with the idea for ONE NIGHT STAND, and it was great, then vince decided to capitalize on it with the tv show, ok cool. Then he kept shoving WWE bred stars down their throats which just didn't mesh. then decided to use ECW as a guinea pig for bad ideas, like DECEMBER TO DISMEMBER, only announcing the main event and leaving the rest of the horrible card to be revealed on the PPV?

Not to mention no room for real storylines or for talent to been seen enough because they got 1 hour to do everything, but yet there is SUPERSTARS, useless in my opinion, they need to give each brand even playing fields, equal tv time, then let the talent shine through so you can find your true maineventers......

Sorry, ranting, back on track now, the fact is that ECW ratings were good with heyman and the originals, now not so much, not that the talent is any less, they're just not ECW.... ECW was a CULT more than a company.... and without the original members it's nothing, they made it what it was and were the only reason it came back...AND AS FAR AS SABU AND RVD getting busted for drugs, do you have any idea how many performers in WWE smoke pot on a regular basis? you only get a fine for popping dirty for that. no suspension, no strike, so your job is secure ...... so don't even try throwing that out there.

 

[crazmond]

Taz, why do you care? ECW was dead and gone a long time ago, even before the invasion angle. Just let it go. I guarantee only 50% of the audience would even have recognized the name dropping for a thank you. I for one have only watched the WWE version of ECW for a total of 4 episodes. Move on....stop living in the past. If you really care then you and Paul E. should get some money together to buy the name back from Vince to restart the company in your vision then give all of yourselves a big pat on the back. Then again, thats what I thought One Night Stand was for.

 

[Schizophrenic]

First, he complains that no original ECW wrestlers got a thanks. He is in a hypocritical position to demand thanks to original ecw wrestlers. Taz left ECW to join the WWF(E). He didn't give a shit about what happened to ECW when he left. When he decided to leave he was CHAMPION of ECW. Give me a break Taz. It's nice to talk about sendoffs and what should be done, but practice what you preach. You left for greener pastures. Plain and simple. Can you blame him? Absolutely not. ECW was bleeding out money and Taz wanted stable income. The WWE is doing what is best for their business, just as Taz did what was best for his financial situation.

Taz left because he had a family to feed and take care of and ECW wasn't giving him the money he needed. Simple buisness move and YOU would have done the same thing. Plus of course Taz cared about ECW. Watch the dvd they put out about how Taz HAD to make that decision even though he never wanted to leave, then came back when Paul was in a bind with Awesome. Taz came back to give ECW more exposure, yeah he cared a hell of a lot about ECW.

Second, when Taz was cashing in those big pay checks from the WWE, he didn't complain about the "vision" WWE had for ECW. If he really wanted to be an outward spokesman for the old ECW, a) he never would have left the WWE and b) he would have quit the WWE when they brought back ECW on Sci-Fi in 2006. It's all well and good to have morals after the fact and to run your mouth when you are no longer dependent on your employee, but come on Taz, you should know better

Taz has always been critical of the way ECW was run in the WWE. Read interviews with him outside of WWE while he was there. He was always upset with it.

Third, Taz should be THANKING the WWE for bringing back ECW and scolding his old "ECW originals" for ruining the chance. Let's do a little history lesson. It's 2005, WWE decided to do ONS. What were people like Mike Awesome and Sabu doing pre-2005? Working in a PPV only format (aka no revenue) TNA or doing Indies. Not to mention people like Balls Mahoney. The WWE gave these wrestlers one last chance to excel at their sport. Fast forward to 2006, ECW has its spot on Sci-FI (now SyFy) and it is rolling. RVD just beat John Cena, ECW is rolling with a brand new champion to anchor the show. And what happens? Sabu and RVD are arrested for drugs! Wow, way to go fellas. So, it is these ECW originals that destroyed the chance of an old school ECW from working. Additionally, the WWE tried to do the hardcore gimic thing with the originals and it didn't work. If ECW had been drawing numbers, you bet your ass they would have kept it going in the original form. But the fact is, Taz, no one wanted to see Balls Mahoney go through a table 500 times. Sorry that your originals couldn't get the job done, but don't blame WWE for cutting its loses.

WWE NEVER gave the originals a chance to excell. Who did they do it for? Sabu and RVD were the two originals who got a chance to shine. Sabu was fed OTHER ORIGINALS and the matches were under "Extreme Rules" that involved a table and a charia nd were given 5 minutes. People didnt watch after a while not because of the wrestlers but because they knew it wasn't ECW anymore, that Sabu was there to be a monkey for Vince. No one cared. Yeah they got busted for weed. So what? Randy did and what did he get, a slap on the wrist. Vince never wanted ECW back but he fealt he had to, not for the fans, for the money. If Vince had done ECW the way people remembered (and not just chairs and tables) with matches that showed the guys ability insted of giving them 5 moves to hit then go home.

Fourth, why wasn't Paul Heyman thanked. It can't be because he has been badmouthing Vince and the WWE every single chance he has had since he was let go. If you're Vinny Mac (and this is one of the few times I have agreed with him) I would never thank Heyman. Heyman lost, plain and simple. He couldn't run a business and he couldn't deal with not being completely in control. To the victors go the spoils and in this case it is clearly WWE.

Yes don't thank Paul Heyman for giving teh WWE the new guys that were some of the better ones. Let's not thank Paul Heyman for giving Benoit and Guerrero an american platform. Let's not thank him for giving us Rey Mysterio in the states. Like Heyman said, Steve Austin was raising hell and drinking in ECW befoe Vince brought him in as "The Ringmaster". Heyman had guys going through tables and being extreme before Vince ever stopped using Doink The Fucking Clown. Everyone should be thanking Paul Heyman for doing something different therefore allowing everyone else to say I want it different too so that the companies had to change. Because if he hadn't no Stone Cold, No DX, no nothing. Plain and simple. THANK YOU PAUL E & ECW!

 

[Maikeru_1979]

Taz left because he had a family to feed and take care of and ECW wasn't giving him the money he needed. Simple buisness move and YOU would have done the same thing. Plus of course Taz cared about ECW. Watch the dvd they put out about how Taz HAD to make that decision even though he never wanted to leave, then came back when Paul was in a bind with Awesome. Taz came back to give ECW more exposure, yeah he cared a hell of a lot about ECW.


Taz has always been critical of the way ECW was run in the WWE. Read interviews with him outside of WWE while he was there. He was always upset with it.


WWE NEVER gave the originals a chance to excell. Who did they do it for? Sabu and RVD were the two originals who got a chance to shine. Sabu was fed OTHER ORIGINALS and the matches were under "Extreme Rules" that involved a table and a charia nd were given 5 minutes. People didnt watch after a while not because of the wrestlers but because they knew it wasn't ECW anymore, that Sabu was there to be a monkey for Vince. No one cared. Yeah they got busted for weed. So what? Randy did and what did he get, a slap on the wrist. Vince never wanted ECW back but he fealt he had to, not for the fans, for the money. If Vince had done ECW the way people remembered (and not just chairs and tables) with matches that showed the guys ability insted of giving them 5 moves to hit then go home.


Yes don't thank Paul Heyman for giving teh WWE the new guys that were some of the better ones. Let's not thank Paul Heyman for giving Benoit and Guerrero an american platform. Let's not thank him for giving us Rey Mysterio in the states. Like Heyman said, Steve Austin was raising hell and drinking in ECW befoe Vince brought him in as "The Ringmaster". Heyman had guys going through tables and being extreme before Vince ever stopped using Doink The Fucking Clown. Everyone should be thanking Paul Heyman for doing something different therefore allowing everyone else to say I want it different too so that the companies had to change. Because if he hadn't no Stone Cold, No DX, no nothing. Plain and simple. THANK YOU PAUL E & ECW!

and thank you for this post. you are right on point with everything you said. I remember ECW when it first came on tv and the epic matches between Dean Malenko and Eddie. not to mention people like raven, beniot, rvd, tazz, sabu, public enemy, sandman, i could go on forever. this is the ecw we all wanted when Vince made the announcement that he was bringing the ecw name back. but what we got was a big steaming pile of dog crap

 

[Kenny Powers]

Taz has a right to attack or defend WWE if he wants too. He didn't totally attack them. He said nothing but good things about Vince and his experience in WWE, but he didn't agree with how ECW was used. Paul Heyman had to beg and plead with Vince to even hire ECW wrestlers and have them on his show. Taz left ECW just like everyone else did at that time, for money. A lot of people stayed without being paid for weeks, but they couldn't do it anymore.

Vince deserves credit for bringing ECW back, but he deserves the same amount of criticism for killing it off as well. Anyone that recreates an extreme innovative wrestling show and turns it into a circus with wrestlers like Nacho Libre and The Zombie should be held accountable. That's like me buying the rights to the songs of Nirvana, and then forming a shitty band of my own called Nirvana.

Vince lost a huge chunk of his audience and the old ECW audience by making himself, Big Show, and Bobby Lashley as champion. The first WWE ECW themed December to Dismember PPV was one of the worst selling and worst PPV's of all time. Of course Vince wouldn't thank Paul Heyman or the Originals, because he fired Heyman for ECW's decline in ratings. Vince was pretty much responsible for ECW, and he fired Heyman for his own failures.

I can't say ECW is better now. We have had CM Punk and Jack Swagger, but we also have Abraham Washington with robotic Josh Matthews and Byron Saxton. Vince will take credit for anything except his own failures. There is no way he would ever thank the original guys, and I don't blame Taz for being angry. I'm just glad like everyone else that ECW will finally be put to rest. I just wonder what Vince's excuse will be if NXT fails too?

This video sums it up the best:

[YOUTUBE]ozhIhinXvZc[/YOUTUBE]​

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Here's the way I see it: Fuck Taz and Fuck ECW. It's dead and buried and it's time that Taz and the ECW marks got over it.

The old ECW has been gone for nearly a decade and it's time for people, including ECW originals in my opinion, to get on with their lives and stop harping on how Vince McMahon has blemished the legacy of ECW. When so many ECW stars jumped ship to work for WCW or the WWF in the late 90s and very early 2000s, they weren't overly concerned with the overall legacy of ECW. Their primary concern was the potential financial security working for either company could have provided for them and their families. Don't get me wrong, I don't blame any wrestler for putting the welfare of their families first and foremost but I do think it's a bit hypocritical for all the ECW originals to blast Vince McMahon for his handling of ECW now.

That being said, did Vince McMahon screw up with ECW? Most definitely. WWE's ECW has gone through an identity crisis almost from the get go. At first, it looked as though it was possible that the old ECW might return, then it got watered down, then it got turned into a place where wrestlers that aren't making headway anywhere else could go, then it became something of a developmental show on television. Ultimately, Vince McMahon made things much more difficult than they had to be and should have left well enough alone. Could he have thought he could have done it better? Possibly. Could his own ego have gotten in the way? More likely than not.

At any rate, ECW is pretty much dead in every way, shape or form and it's time to move on. WWE NXT will be debuting in three weeks time so the IWC will have something else from the WWE to piss and moan about.

 

[miroa12004]

1-Taz is right in every word he said, he needed to leave the original ECW because the company from a financial standpoint was so bad that the performers weren't paid their money for months, Taz much like the Dudleys ,much like Raven and much like the Sandman had families to feed and needed the money that WWF presented him at the time, and when there was the whole Awesome debacle with WCW, Taz returned with no problems at all.

2-The person to blame for ECW's downfall is Vince and only Vince, for Vince, extreme meant a couple of chairs, a table, some blood being shed and Kelly Kelly striping and thats it, of course I am not the one who is saying that but it is RVD.
Vince never had faith in the ECW originals, remember One Night Stand 2005 had better buyrates than any WWE PPV aside from the big four which shows you how people were eager to see an alternative , but Vince with all the genuise he is decides that people would be more interested to see this PPV with the same WWE wrestlers they see on the WWE shows with some originals thrown into the mix, ofcourse the 2006 event was not bad but comparing it to the 2005 event, you'll realize how much Vince's influence to the product affected it negatively. Then Vince realizies that with the One Night Stand buyrates doing better than his average shows along with the Rise and Fall of ECW buyrates going through the roof that an ECW brand is a money guarntee so he decides to do a third ECW brand with the ECW originals he managed to sign on contracts along with Kurt Angle and Big Show, on paper this would work and it worked even though you knew it was never going to be like the original ECW but it was an alternative to the other WWE programming that when the brand debuted it had higher ratings than Smackdown but after a while, you felt that they tended to water it down and we begin to feel the Vince effect of trying to make this show based on his own ideas, who on earth would think that a character like Nacho Libre would work other than the genuise of Vince McMahon, Big show as an ECW champ or the mainevent of one episode is Batista vs Big Show?? please give me a break, not to mention Bobby Lashley winning the title and Vince himself winning it tarnishing any legacy this title had, the show begin to lose its feel and soon begin to lose its fans and begin to feel like the normal WWE shows fans also felt that their original ECW stars were only used to job to the upcoming guys as well as the WWE stars and after a 2.9 debut on June 2006, the show ended 2006 with 1.4 and a disasterous PPV that Heyman was fired after because Vince blamed him for the failure of this PPV, despite the fact that it was Vince who refused to announce any match other than the mainevent, it was Vince who refused to promote the PPV, it was Vince who decided to book this PPV one week behind Survivor Series and it was Vince who booked this PPV completly, Vince didn't have the balls to admit his failure and completly threw the responsibilty on poor Heyman and fired him after Heyman confronted him and fellout with him, the show went down the toilet after Heyman left, no meaningful feud was done after Heyman left and the originals left after him or were used to job more until the show became just a developmental show with a TV deal and a championship belt that means shit and is rarely defended on PPV.

3-Yes, Vince should thank Paul and the ECW originals for giving us fans some original ideas that were not done anywhere, if it weren't for ECW, the biggest spot you'd ever see was going to be a cross body from a cage or a ladder, names like Jericho, Benoit, Eddie, Dudleyz, RVD, Malenko, Mysterio, etc wouldn't have wrestled in the big time promotions of the States, Austin would've never been Stone Cold and probably continue as The Ringmaster and then become fired three months after, gimmicks like IRS, Repo Man and Doink the Clown would've been the normal gimmicks we see on wrestling, no hardcore, table, triple threat matches, no Undertaker crucifing wrestlers during the Ministry gimmick, no wrestlers with their real names with normal gimmicks not that cartoonish bullshit and basically no Attitude Era, so yes Vince owes Heyman a lot of things and a thank you is the least he could repay him.

 

[proofinlife]

Here's the way I see it: Fuck Taz and Fuck ECW. It's dead and buried and it's time that Taz and the ECW marks got over it.

The old ECW has been gone for nearly a decade and it's time for people, including ECW originals in my opinion, to get on with their lives and stop harping on how Vince McMahon has blemished the legacy of ECW. When so many ECW stars jumped ship to work for WCW or the WWF in the late 90s and very early 2000s, they weren't overly concerned with the overall legacy of ECW. Their primary concern was the potential financial security working for either company could have provided for them and their families. Don't get me wrong, I don't blame any wrestler for putting the welfare of their families first and foremost but I do think it's a bit hypocritical for all the ECW originals to blast Vince McMahon for his handling of ECW now.

That being said, did Vince McMahon screw up with ECW? Most definitely. WWE's ECW has gone through an identity crisis almost from the get go. At first, it looked as though it was possible that the old ECW might return, then it got watered down, then it got turned into a place where wrestlers that aren't making headway anywhere else could go, then it became something of a developmental show on television. Ultimately, Vince McMahon made things much more difficult than they had to be and should have left well enough alone. Could he have thought he could have done it better? Possibly. Could his own ego have gotten in the way? More likely than not.

At any rate, ECW is pretty much dead in every way, shape or form and it's time to move on. WWE NXT will be debuting in three weeks time so the IWC will have something else from the WWE to piss and moan about.

Right on the head with everything you said in that post.

But as for your second paragraph about ECW being in an identity crisis, is it not fair to say that RAW is in the same boat? They're constantly shifting positions on what is acceptable TV, For example:

One month man on woman violence is completely unacceptable, next month it's okay

Women's division is given a huge push one week, the next week it's buried

They put in a strategy to develop new stars by bringing newer guys into the top-tier main event, then a few weeks later they're back in the mid-card

Smackdown a good example, the Friday before they debuted the Juniors division they wanted to go full steam, the friday after the idea was buried.

It's not a problem of Vince changing his mind all the time, it's a problem that they have so many different writers and people looking over those writers that nothing stays fluidic and the product suffers from it. They can't make a long term plan, plan around those long term plans, and stick with their original idea and create some sort of solid storylines that make sense.

 

[Tastycles]

The reason the ECW brand was destined to fail is twofold. The first is that Paul Heyman was not given full control. And the second is that he was given some control.

Paul Heyman could certainly have given us some superb stories etc, but he was also using ECW original talent. The ECW Originals that were featured on television were Dreamer, Sabu, RVD, Balls Mahoney and The Sandman. Three of them were involved in intoxication issues and proved unreliable. Mahoney was never a big deal and Dreamer was given a prominent role to the bitter end and thanked on the internet later.

The ECW originals weren't thanked, because they had mostly been let downs. The reason most of them were in the old ECW is because nobody else would take them. Most of them had failed runs in the WWF and WCW in the 90s. They mostly proved their unreliability over the coming years.

As for Heyman, I'm sure he could have booked a better product, but he didn't fulfil the role assigned to him. I'm more intelligent than the guy who was my boss when I worked in McDonald's, it doesn't mean he should thank me for not doing my job later on, after I've left the company, does it?

McMahon resurrected the ECW name, and whether or not you approve of what he did with it is irrelevant. What is true is that he gave 4 wrestling nobodies a job on the brand for a while. McMahon doesn't owe the ECW originals anything except their name, which they've got back.

 

[Batman]

I agree with Taz. The original poster has it wrong a little. Say what you will about Russo, but according to him Vince never even knew what ECW was until he was told. He never watched his competition at all.

Proof of this starts with ONS. Which RVD convinced VINCE to do. Meaning it wasn't Vince who wanted ONS, RVD had to fight for it. According to those around Vince at ONS say that Vince was taken aback by the hardcore brutal style wrestling of the ECW wrestlers. I guess he thought ECW was a kids show, something which he made true when he took over.

Vince's ECW will never be remembered for anything. IT was a bunch of talentless WWE trained wrestlers who will be gone soon anyway. The titles meant nothing, the wrestlers meant nothing ,and the words ECW meant nothing.

Now the good thing about this is that kids and casual wrestling fans that watched Vinces ECW might be inclinded to look up the old ECW, at which point they might see why hardcore wrestling fans loved it so much.

Either way, I'm glad ECW is finally dead. Well the old was dead the second the first ONS went off the air, but I'm also glad that the letters are dead too. May they rest in peace.