So now what Frank? (And other HW talk)

[Y4J]

So now that Frank Mir has lost to Carwin, what do you think is next for Mir?

At first I would have said Mir and Cain, but I believe now it's Dos Santos vs Cain (Which I believe Cain will plow through for a title shot)

As for Mir, it makes me wonder who he's going to fight next.

He might even take a hiatus. The last two strong wrestlers he's fought, he's gotten smashed, so he might need to step back and look at his gameplans.

I wouldn't be surprised if Dana put him against Big Country. I used to really dislike Roy because he seemed boring, and pissed me off about laying on people and punched the top of their head, but the dude is for real and has MAJOR good hands and knockout power. So I wouldn't be surprised if it goes Mir and Roy.

Or maybe Mir fights the loser of Cain and Santos.

Speaking of Roy, perhaps if not Mir, I wouldn't be suprised him against Kongo.

Any opinions??

 

[Turd Ferguson]

So now that Frank Mir has lost to Carwin, what do you think is next for Mir?

At first I would have said Mir and Cain, but I believe now it's Dos Santos vs Cain (Which I believe Cain will plow through for a title shot)

As for Mir, it makes me wonder who he's going to fight next.

He might even take a hiatus. The last two strong wrestlers he's fought, he's gotten smashed, so he might need to step back and look at his gameplans.

I wouldn't be surprised if Dana put him against Big Country. I used to really dislike Roy because he seemed boring, and pissed me off about laying on people and punched the top of their head, but the dude is for real and has MAJOR good hands and knockout power. So I wouldn't be surprised if it goes Mir and Roy.

Or maybe Mir fights the loser of Cain and Santos.

Speaking of Roy, perhaps if not Mir, I wouldn't be suprised him against Kongo.

Any opinions??

Dana said a couple days ago that Big Country would get JDS if he beat Struve (Which he did). He said Cain would get the winner of Brock/Carwin. And by the way, I think Nelson has a very legitimate shot of upsetting JDS and screwing up the UFC's title plans. The fact that JDS has no ground game keeps getting tossed around, and if Nelson manages to take him down, then he's going to have major, major problems. As Nelson's shown against Schaub and Struve, he has some power behind his punches as well. I think Nelson is actually a real bad matchup for JDS. Nelson is just as dangerous standing up as JDS is, and if Nelson gets JDS in the crucifix, it's all over.

So that's how the top of the heavyweight picture looks. I think now, with Nogueira using the staph infection as the reason why he lost to Mir at UFC 92, a rematch makes a lot of sense. A win for either one would launch them right back into the title picture. If they really want Mir to get a win to make him remain looking like a threat, maybe they'll throw him in there with someone like Cro Cop or Gonzaga.

Edit: As far as Struve goes, he has a LOT of potential. However, he really needs to understand how to use that huge reach advantage he has in his fights, and he should be focusing on kickboxing for a few months. If he can use those long legs and utilize some deadly kicks into his offense, he'll be fucking scary.

 

[INDYjon22]

Mir versus Nogueira in a rematch makes the most sense honestly. We all expected them to fight again while being on winning streaks and obviously that is not the case for either right now. Both men are coming off devastating loses and need a so0lid win. What more solid of a win to get then over a former champion? Mir and Nog is going to happen and regardless of if they both are on win streaks or losing streaks this fight makes the most sense for both men. I still think Mir beats Nog in a rematch.

Carwin versus Lesnar should be a fun little two round fight. I would be shocked to see this fight go to decision but anything can happen. Also, Cain getting the winner of this fight and not having to fight another person first is great. Joe Silva and Dana White have done a great job of setting up the Heavyweight division for the rest of the year.

JDS versus Roy Nelson should be a very good fight. Both men have great power in their hands and this fight makes perfect sense. It sets up the next challenger for after Cain. I actually see Nelson having the advantage in this fight. He has shown his true skills with his last two fights and I expect nothing different. We also know what he can do if the fight goes to the ground in which case Nelson wins with no problem. Boxing could go either way.

Stefan Struve would benefit from learning some kickboxing and striking defense. His achilles heel is definitly fighting smaller guys. He has been destroyed by both JDS and Roy Nelson who are considerably shorter. Struve should fight Heath Herring next. If he won then it would give him a good name to add to his list of victims and if he loses then it is to an established fighter. Struve has a great future but he still needs to work out some of his problems.

I really love the UFC Heavyweight division right now. It is exciting to watch for the first time in years and the UFC has done a great job of setting up big fight after big fight. This should be a great year for the division.

 

[jmt225]

You know, I've also been harping on getting a Mir/Nog rematch, but after Nog's last fight, I don't want to see it anymore.

I think right now, the best possible thing to do is to match up Mir against Roy Nelson, and set-up Cain Velasquez vs. Junior dos Santos, with the winner of Cain/JDS facing the winner of Brock/Carwin. However, if Carwin isn't able to fight by July, then you put together Velasquez vs. Lesnar for the HW Title, and JDS vs. Roy Nelson. Well, where does that leave Mir in that scenario? I say give him the winner of Cro Cop vs. Patrick Barry. Seriously, if Cro Cop defeats Barry... it's time to give him a big name so he can have a shot in getting in title contention, and what better name than Frank Mir?

So, that's how I would play it out, personally. I think making Cain wait up to possibly nine months before having another fight just isn't an option. If Carwin is able to fight Lesnar, than set-up Cain vs. JDS before, since both are coming off quick, harmless, very impressive wins. And then set-up Nelson vs. Mir, which would be either Nelson truly becoming a contender, or Mir making another climb up the UFC Heavyweight ladder. However, doing this leaves out Cro Cop if he beats Barry, well easy solution to that... Cro Cop vs. Big Nog.

To me, those are the best possible scenarios for each case. A lot of it depends on Carwin's health, but even if he's unable to fight, as I showed above, there's still some great stuff you can do with the UFC HW Division regardless. The division is more stacked than ever, and I couldn't be more excited for it.

 

[Buffalo Dave]

I have to say watching Mir get rocked was great, now he has to come back and and put another little winning streak together in order to to get at brock again. The next thing for Mir would have to be Nelson, just makes the most sense. If Roy gets the win then he has to be in serious contention for a title shot with maybe only one fight away, and if Mir wins gets him going in the right direction again.

I agree with JMT putting Cain vs. JDS for #1 contender a fight that has to happen hands down! Now JMT what do you mean if Carwin is healthy to go? I didnt realize something was wrong with him, or did you just mean to type Brock there?

Another matchup for Mir could also be Struve, since both are coming of a loss. I would see this as a breeze for Mir and a confidence builder to get him back on track. I just hope Mir doesn't become like Kongo where he looks good against lesser opponents but sucks it up when it comes to contending.

 

[jmt225]

Now JMT what do you mean if Carwin is healthy to go? I didnt realize something was wrong with him, or did you just mean to type Brock there?

This was released a couple of days after UFC 111:

According to interim heavyweight champion Shane Carwin, who is fresh off a first round knock out destruction of Frank Mir at UFC 111 this past weekend, he was very close to not stepping into the cage at all:

"The week leading into this fight was hectic. I was unable to get cleared based on the medical records I submitted so I spent a good part of one of the media days in the Dr.'s office. I was able to pass the MRI/MRA that was initially in question but the doctors located a new problem. Apparently there was concern that one of the vessels in my brain looked as if it was connected on one end but not the other. The Dr. told me it could be that or it could be a vessel that was widening or ballooning but they could not really tell and needed a better test. It sounded serious and I wanted to fight so I agreed to the test, which involved CT Angiography (CTA). They had to set up an IV and inject a contrast material in me (containing iodine) and named off some possible side effects, this was all fine, but not when you are less than a couple of days out from a fight. The dye made me pretty sick for about the next 24 hours. I was thankful they were being so thorough, but it could not have come at a worse time."

There have been no updates since then, but obviously it's a very serious matter. Hopefully we find out soon whether or not he'll be able to fight again, or what it'll take for him to return in full form. Obviously, even if he's able to fight sometime in the future, that still doesn't mean he'll be ready for a fight in July, against the toughest opponent in his career.

Another matchup for Mir could also be Struve, since both are coming of a loss. I would see this as a breeze for Mir and a confidence builder to get him back on track. I just hope Mir doesn't become like Kongo where he looks good against lesser opponents but sucks it up when it comes to contending.

Struve seems like too big of step down for someone of Mir's caliber. Struve has yet to really defeat a big name, and he got crushed in under a minute against Roy Nelson. Not only is he not ready for someone with the abilities of Frank Mir, but I think Mir himself would take it as an insult if he's booked to fight someone like that.

I think for Struve you have to give him a couple of no-names in his next couple of fights, and see just exactly where he's at. Then after say two of those fights, if he wins them, then put him in there with someone like Kongo, and that'll show us whether or not he's the real deal.

 

[Via Armbar]

Honestly, Mir versus either Cain or Dos Santos doesn't interest me much. As much respect for Mir as I have, I think both of those men are ahead of him at this point and would have to much power for him. I still enjoy seeing Mir fight, but I think they better fights for him right now are guys like Nelson and Barry. Either of those two men are good matches for him. He can match Nelson on the ground and can match Barry on the feet. He needs a couple safer fights to tune his newfound wieght and power.

Cro Cop obviously isn't what he used to be as painful as that is to say. He would not be able to hang with Mir unfortunately and things would look bad for Mirko again. I really don't want to see one of my favorite fighters lose again to a younger, hungier bull so that fight wdoesn't interest me. If Cro Cop can get past Barry than I would give him Struve. The Sky Scraper would stand with Mirko more than likely and Cro Cop may just be able to get inside that reach and get the tko win.

The only problem with doing Dos Santos/Velasquez is that you eliminate two top contenders at once. Both are huge prospects right now and possible contenders. I'd more like to see Nelson/Dos Santos and Vasquez wait to get a shot against the winner of Lesnar/Carwin. If they want Cain to fight before that, I'd recommed they give him Gonzaga. A good fight but will a somewhat predictable outcome that will keep Cain relevant until his title shot.

 

[jmt225]

The only problem with doing Dos Santos/Velasquez is that you eliminate two top contenders at once. Both are huge prospects right now and possible contenders. I'd more like to see Nelson/Dos Santos and Vasquez wait to get a shot against the winner of Lesnar/Carwin.

I disagree completely, man. The loser of dos Santos vs. Velasquez, if it were to happen, would not go down the ladder one bit. Will they be a couple of shots away from a title shot then? Sure, but they'll be given a chance to redeem themselves, and if they are both as good as we think they are, then they'll rebound very quickly.

If they want Cain to fight before that, I'd recommed they give him Gonzaga. A good fight but will a somewhat predictable outcome that will keep Cain relevant until his title shot.

This I also have to disagree with. This was the same mind-set the UFC had when they got Mirko Cro Cop: Feed Gonzaga to him, and then give him a title shot. But, we all saw how that turned out.

The fact is, no matter how he's looked in his last few of fights, Gonzaga is a threat to ANYONE in the UFC Heavyweight Division, and if Cain Velasquez were to lose to him, then that would be a much more devastating blow than losing to someone like Junior dos Santos, since Gonzaga has lost two of his last three fights, whereas dos Santos is still undefeated in the UFC.

 

[Via Armbar]

I disagree completely, man. The loser of dos Santos vs. Velasquez, if it were to happen, would not go down the ladder one bit. Will they be a couple of shots away from a title shot then? Sure, but they'll be given a chance to redeem themselves, and if they are both as good as we think they are, then they'll rebound very quickly.

I was thinking from a marketing prospective jmt. Of course one of them would be waiting in the wings if they were to lose in this fight. When both are being hyped this greatly though, there is potential there to have two huge money makers having good fights at once. If they fight each other, it could potentially slow one of them down a little. Why have one super hyped fighter clawing at the top when you can have two? Don't get me wrong, I would love to see them fight. It would make more business sense though to not match them up right away. Which is why Dana said something along the lines of Nelson fighting JDS rather than using Velasquez. One loss isn't going to ruin either fighters future, but right now doesn't seem like the right time to send one potential champion down a couple notches. The heavyweight division is more stacked then ever, they both have other options.

This I also have to disagree with. This was the same mind-set the UFC had when they got Mirko Cro Cop: Feed Gonzaga to him, and then give him a title shot. But, we all saw how that turned out.

The fact is, no matter how he's looked in his last few of fights, Gonzaga is a threat to ANYONE in the UFC Heavyweight Division, and if Cain Velasquez were to lose to him, then that would be a much more devastating blow than losing to someone like Junior dos Santos, since Gonzaga has lost two of his last three fights, whereas dos Santos is still undefeated in the UFC.

Gonzaga is a great fighter, no question about it. I'm just saying, due to recent evidence, he would seem like the safer fight for Mir. I gaurentee that Dana would love for Mir to earn another crack at Lesnar and make a shit load of money from it. I'm not saying that he would dismantle Gonzaga, just my opinion that Mir would be too much for Napao. More so than he would be trouble for Cain or JDS. There's always the possibility of Gonzaga pulling off a win, I just don't find it incredibly likley.

If Cain fights Gonzaga, you lose a potential contender. For the moment at least. Same goes for JDS, if he fights someone before he gains number one contendership. Either way, one of them is still in direct contention. If they fight eachother obviously one is going to be sent down a little. I'm saying that if they don't fight eachother yet, they could both still remain contenders. Yes they could be upset by Gonzaga or Nelson or whomever, but the chances are in their favors. I't would be smart to risk one losing when the odds look in their favor rather than having them fight each other and losing a contender immediatly. Like I said, from a business stand point.

 

[Y4J]

Dana said a couple days ago that Big Country would get JDS if he beat Struve (Which he did). He said Cain would get the winner of Brock/Carwin. And by the way, I think Nelson has a very legitimate shot of upsetting JDS and screwing up the UFC's title plans. The fact that JDS has no ground game keeps getting tossed around, and if Nelson manages to take him down, then he's going to have major, major problems. As Nelson's shown against Schaub and Struve, he has some power behind his punches as well. I think Nelson is actually a real bad matchup for JDS. Nelson is just as dangerous standing up as JDS is, and if Nelson gets JDS in the crucifix, it's all over.

I never have heard that. Infact, the press conference he did at that mall in Canada (I believe thats where he was) he said that Cain would be facing JDS.

I think Roy is great. And has potential of going far. But let's look at it on paper.. He hasn't fought anyone legit in the UFC yet, so him jumping to JDS is a BIG jump when Roy can easily face heavyweights like Cro-Cop, Kongo, and even Big Nog to get him launched. I understand me saying Roy fighting Mir is a big jump as well, but with Mir's status right now in the heavyweight division, it seems like it would work more than Roy and JDS. Mir is behind JDS and Cain right now in the title picture, so Mir needs a win to stay around and him stopping Roy would be a nice feather in his cap, and Roy needs a big win to launch him to the title picture.

The heavyweight division is great right now. SOOO many different brackets in the division. I personally think Carwin is the biggest threat to Brock. I really like Cain, but Brock may be too big and strong and his ground game might dominate.. But that's a different story.

Bottom line is Roy needs a legit fight now..

To jump of the title picture, if Kimbo beats Matt, I say throw Kimbo in the ring with Kongo. Opinions?