So earlier today there was an RP posted by someone new to our fed that got a pretty strong negative reaction. The general feeling was that the RP was highly offensive and derogatory toward women, and that this was not okay. When so much of the fed reacts so strongly to an RP, it's something that we should discuss and figure out. For the benefit of discussion, I'm going to post the RP here. If you haven't read it, read it at your own risk.
The reality is that while the RP did get that response, it's hard to tell where it crossed the line precisely. After all, we've had edgy RP's received very well in the past. I had an RP win me the world title in which Drake hit a woman in the face, much as Barrett did in this RP. In another, I won the Lethal Lottery with more general violence toward a women. No one complained in these circumstances, at least not publicly, and creative chosen them to win two huge matches. But the above RP also has degrading dialog and sexual actions toward women, and I think that's where it goes wrong. So let's keep talking about these three things, and where the rules come into play.
Violence: The rules have clear discussion of violence in RP's:
Again, I don't think the violence is really the biggest problem in this RP, so let me first discuss the next few things and then we'll get around to how it all comes together.
Dialogue: Unfortunately the rules only discuss swearing, and not generally offensive rhetoric. This RP doesn't even have a terrible problem with swearing, but the general way that it attacks women was clearly offensive to a lot of the fed. I think we need to acknowledge that words like "****" and "****e" are in the same category of generally offensive rhetoric and were probably used excessively here. I think it's clear that using a lot of offensive rhetoric makes for a worse effect than does excessive swearing. We've objected to and voted against RP's that swore excessively before, but they didn't elicit a response like this. So we need to also acknowledge that offensive dialog is as bad or worse than swearing in some cases, and I think perhaps the rules should reflect that better. Let me discuss one other point first before getting to that:
Sexual Content: This is also not explicitly reflected in the rules, which I'm going to address, but I think this is perhaps where the RP goes the most wrong. The vulgar actions both taken and suggested are what, to me, makes the RP particularly uncomfortable, for a lot of the same reasons the offensive rhetoric does.
I think ultimately where the RP goes wrong is that it's simply in poor taste. Something like this is extremely difficult to define but it is kind of a "know it when you see it" sort of thing. When enough of creative and the fed at large has this kind of a reaction to something, it's obviously not in very good taste. The dialog and the sexual content, combined with the probably excessive violence, ultimately made this an uncomfortable RP to read and one we had to delete. But this isn't the first time we've run up against this kind of issue in RP's before. We had a discussion around similar issues when Vega killed a guy in an RP, and when there was a rape joke in an RP. It's happened before, which is why I think a larger discussion and a new rule are in order. So, let me propose an addition to the rules:
I don't want this to be a mandate coming down from me, and I'd like to just have everyone discuss it openly. Feel free to propose changes to the wording of the statement of the rule. This is a discussion for the entire fed to have, not just creative, so let's try to have some level headed discourse about it and come to a better way of reflecting this in our rules.
The scene opens up inside Stratton Private Gym in Old Town Brentwood TN. The Gym itself, is an Olde English Style boxing gym with rustic hardwoods. Various trophies and banners line the walls of the gym. The first floor of the gym has a wrestling mat, various punching bags (speed, heavy, dynamic, and muay thai), a boxing ring, and free weights. The upstairs portion of the gym actually a wet bar, with various whiskies, bourbons, and scotches lining the bar in addition to a lounge and pool table area.
Several guys are working out in the gym. Two men are wearing Vanderbilt wrestling shorts and shirt, and Greco Roman style wrestling on the matt. One is performing Olympic lifts, while another one, Barrett Stratton, is working ground and pound strikes on a dummy in the boxing ring. Barrett works different strikes from full mount, side control, and north and south. The ring thuds and shakes with each malicious strike on the dummy.
Ding, Ding, Ding
The bell goes off ending the round of workout. Barrett pears up seeing the camera man, and takes a deep breath.
Barrett-There you are. Head on up stairs, we got a show for you.
Barrett exits the ring and heads back to the locker room.
The camera goes dark, and then reopens with Barrett and his training partners walking up the stairs in Vanderbilt Wrestling Warmup suits.
Barrett-She should be here any minute now
Barrett goes and pours a mixed drink of Makers Mark and Sprite and sits down in the lounge. His friends pour some drinks as well, sit down, and spark of a few Cuban cigars. Barrett pulls out his Iphone to webpage.
Barrett-You seen this gents? Foxnews.com The Marine Corps is going back to the flexed arm hang after 46% of female Marines could not perform 3 pullups for their annual Physical Fitness Test 3 pullup Well thats about par for the course. They can do anything a man can except that they cant.
Barretts friends snicker at his comment.
Barrett-So the WZCW administration wants to make some kind of martyr out of me. Make me some kind of joke, and bury me in my first match. Very well I will wrestle this Wookieand Ill beat her ass like I would any man in the WZCW. You see boys, thats all thats in the WZCW. A bunch of hairy, big, ugly, Wookies calling themselves women. Isabel Stone, shes no different from the rest, just another **** with daddy issues.
Knock, Knock
Barrett-Speaking of daddy issues
Barretts friends look over and smile at each other. Barrett goes down stairs and opens the door. His voice can be heard in the distance.
Barrett-Bout time you got here Princess.
Barrett heads back up stairs and with a woman following. She is a very attractive, tall, slender blonde girl wearing a trench coat and heels.
Woman-Mmm, hey boys! You all ready for a show?
She says smiling
Barrett-Oh yeah, we are but first, I got a little gift for you, go back and this put this on.
Barrett hands the girl a bag and points to the locker room as the camera closes.
When the scene reopens we see the woman wearing a long brown wig, and a red school girl outfit; almost identical, to the outfit worn by Isabel Stone backstage.
Barrett-There we go, thats a good look for ya. Now get over here ****e.
The lady appears visibly irritated by this remark.
Stripper-Sir could you please not call me
Barrett-Look ****e, I will call you whatever I want. Heres 100 dollars, dont ask any more questions for the rest of the night.
The woman reluctantly takes the money from Barrett. She stands in front of Barretts friends and begins giving them lap dances, grinding enticing his friends. Barrett smirks from the corner and begins recording the dance with his iphone.
Barrett-Just like that. Just curious, did people ever like you before you were a ****?
The woman glares over at him, clearly irritated. Barrett goes over and grabs his bottle of Makers drinking straight out of the bottle, getting visibly more intoxicated in speech and in demeanor. The woman makes way over to Barrett and sits on his lap peering back at him seductively.
Stripper-You ready for this daddy?
Barrett-HAHA! Daddy
The woman grinds more on Barrett. As Barrett places more money in her skirt line she becomes more and more sensual eventually nuzzling her head on his crotch.
Barrett-This bitchll do anything for some cash gents!
Barretts friends laugh
Barrett-I tell you what. Ill give you something to suck on.
Barrett stands up putting his crotch face level with kneeling stripper.
Barrett-Not that. We both know what you want.
Barrett pulls out a rolled up 100 dollar bill and places it in front of the womans mouth.
Barrett-Go ahead, start sucking
One of Barretts friends is recording the endeavor on his phone while the other anxiously peer over. The woman looks over at them reluctantly and then back at the 100 dollar bill, opens her mouth, and begins sucking on the rolled bill.
Barrett-Thats right
The woman continues for a minute or so.
Barrett-Thats enough to stand up.
The woman stands.
Stripper-What now daddy?
Barrett-Lets talk about that Did you know your daddy?
Stripper-I dont really think that
Barrett-Youre not being paid to think, if you were youd be broke. Did you know youre daddy or not.
Stripper-Yes I knew him!
Barrett-Was he around when you were a little girl?
Barrett says in a condescending tone. The stripper is clearly becoming embarrassed and red in the face.
Stripper- no
Barrett-That explains it! Another little ****e that daddy never loved boys!
Barretts friends erupt in laughter. The woman stares at the ground embarrassed before becoming clearly agitated and charging at Barrett.
Stripper-Why, you ass hole!
Just then Barrett viciously backhands the girl as she falls to the ground clutching her reddened cheek and crying. Barrett takes another large drink of his Makers Mark before pouring the liquor all over fallen stripper causing her to makeup to run.
Barrett-Cancel this b*tch gents! Ill buy a new one
Barretts friends go and pick up the traumatized girl and lead her down the stairs to the exit. Barrett points the attention to of the camera man to him. Barrett is excessively intoxicated and aggressive at this point clutching the camera in lens in one hand as he talks.
Barrett-You see! That ****e, the so called women of the WZCW, and especially that b*tch Isabel Stone are all the same! Damn useless! They call come out shaking their jiblets looking like C-class porn stars hoping these fat, bumpkin, WZCW fans will get off watching them jiggle and flop around the ring. Just like Isabel, that ****e has daddy issues. Isabel is trying to be the man her daddy couldnt be. Well I tell you what wook maybe after I smack you around like that ****, and spank you in the middle ring maybe just, maybe I will let you put your little ****e school girl outfit on and make me a sammich!
Barrett shoves the camera, as the scene ends
Several guys are working out in the gym. Two men are wearing Vanderbilt wrestling shorts and shirt, and Greco Roman style wrestling on the matt. One is performing Olympic lifts, while another one, Barrett Stratton, is working ground and pound strikes on a dummy in the boxing ring. Barrett works different strikes from full mount, side control, and north and south. The ring thuds and shakes with each malicious strike on the dummy.
Ding, Ding, Ding
The bell goes off ending the round of workout. Barrett pears up seeing the camera man, and takes a deep breath.
Barrett-There you are. Head on up stairs, we got a show for you.
Barrett exits the ring and heads back to the locker room.
The camera goes dark, and then reopens with Barrett and his training partners walking up the stairs in Vanderbilt Wrestling Warmup suits.
Barrett-She should be here any minute now
Barrett goes and pours a mixed drink of Makers Mark and Sprite and sits down in the lounge. His friends pour some drinks as well, sit down, and spark of a few Cuban cigars. Barrett pulls out his Iphone to webpage.
Barrett-You seen this gents? Foxnews.com The Marine Corps is going back to the flexed arm hang after 46% of female Marines could not perform 3 pullups for their annual Physical Fitness Test 3 pullup Well thats about par for the course. They can do anything a man can except that they cant.
Barretts friends snicker at his comment.
Barrett-So the WZCW administration wants to make some kind of martyr out of me. Make me some kind of joke, and bury me in my first match. Very well I will wrestle this Wookieand Ill beat her ass like I would any man in the WZCW. You see boys, thats all thats in the WZCW. A bunch of hairy, big, ugly, Wookies calling themselves women. Isabel Stone, shes no different from the rest, just another **** with daddy issues.
Knock, Knock
Barrett-Speaking of daddy issues
Barretts friends look over and smile at each other. Barrett goes down stairs and opens the door. His voice can be heard in the distance.
Barrett-Bout time you got here Princess.
Barrett heads back up stairs and with a woman following. She is a very attractive, tall, slender blonde girl wearing a trench coat and heels.
Woman-Mmm, hey boys! You all ready for a show?
She says smiling
Barrett-Oh yeah, we are but first, I got a little gift for you, go back and this put this on.
Barrett hands the girl a bag and points to the locker room as the camera closes.
When the scene reopens we see the woman wearing a long brown wig, and a red school girl outfit; almost identical, to the outfit worn by Isabel Stone backstage.
Barrett-There we go, thats a good look for ya. Now get over here ****e.
The lady appears visibly irritated by this remark.
Stripper-Sir could you please not call me
Barrett-Look ****e, I will call you whatever I want. Heres 100 dollars, dont ask any more questions for the rest of the night.
The woman reluctantly takes the money from Barrett. She stands in front of Barretts friends and begins giving them lap dances, grinding enticing his friends. Barrett smirks from the corner and begins recording the dance with his iphone.
Barrett-Just like that. Just curious, did people ever like you before you were a ****?
The woman glares over at him, clearly irritated. Barrett goes over and grabs his bottle of Makers drinking straight out of the bottle, getting visibly more intoxicated in speech and in demeanor. The woman makes way over to Barrett and sits on his lap peering back at him seductively.
Stripper-You ready for this daddy?
Barrett-HAHA! Daddy
The woman grinds more on Barrett. As Barrett places more money in her skirt line she becomes more and more sensual eventually nuzzling her head on his crotch.
Barrett-This bitchll do anything for some cash gents!
Barretts friends laugh
Barrett-I tell you what. Ill give you something to suck on.
Barrett stands up putting his crotch face level with kneeling stripper.
Barrett-Not that. We both know what you want.
Barrett pulls out a rolled up 100 dollar bill and places it in front of the womans mouth.
Barrett-Go ahead, start sucking
One of Barretts friends is recording the endeavor on his phone while the other anxiously peer over. The woman looks over at them reluctantly and then back at the 100 dollar bill, opens her mouth, and begins sucking on the rolled bill.
Barrett-Thats right
The woman continues for a minute or so.
Barrett-Thats enough to stand up.
The woman stands.
Stripper-What now daddy?
Barrett-Lets talk about that Did you know your daddy?
Stripper-I dont really think that
Barrett-Youre not being paid to think, if you were youd be broke. Did you know youre daddy or not.
Stripper-Yes I knew him!
Barrett-Was he around when you were a little girl?
Barrett says in a condescending tone. The stripper is clearly becoming embarrassed and red in the face.
Stripper- no
Barrett-That explains it! Another little ****e that daddy never loved boys!
Barretts friends erupt in laughter. The woman stares at the ground embarrassed before becoming clearly agitated and charging at Barrett.
Stripper-Why, you ass hole!
Just then Barrett viciously backhands the girl as she falls to the ground clutching her reddened cheek and crying. Barrett takes another large drink of his Makers Mark before pouring the liquor all over fallen stripper causing her to makeup to run.
Barrett-Cancel this b*tch gents! Ill buy a new one
Barretts friends go and pick up the traumatized girl and lead her down the stairs to the exit. Barrett points the attention to of the camera man to him. Barrett is excessively intoxicated and aggressive at this point clutching the camera in lens in one hand as he talks.
Barrett-You see! That ****e, the so called women of the WZCW, and especially that b*tch Isabel Stone are all the same! Damn useless! They call come out shaking their jiblets looking like C-class porn stars hoping these fat, bumpkin, WZCW fans will get off watching them jiggle and flop around the ring. Just like Isabel, that ****e has daddy issues. Isabel is trying to be the man her daddy couldnt be. Well I tell you what wook maybe after I smack you around like that ****, and spank you in the middle ring maybe just, maybe I will let you put your little ****e school girl outfit on and make me a sammich!
Barrett shoves the camera, as the scene ends
The reality is that while the RP did get that response, it's hard to tell where it crossed the line precisely. After all, we've had edgy RP's received very well in the past. I had an RP win me the world title in which Drake hit a woman in the face, much as Barrett did in this RP. In another, I won the Lethal Lottery with more general violence toward a women. No one complained in these circumstances, at least not publicly, and creative chosen them to win two huge matches. But the above RP also has degrading dialog and sexual actions toward women, and I think that's where it goes wrong. So let's keep talking about these three things, and where the rules come into play.
Violence: The rules have clear discussion of violence in RP's:
6) We allow the use of swearing and violence as we realise that sometimes it is required to add aspects of a character. However, please use it on a limited basis as we have to cater to anyone of the age of 13 and above, and excessive swearing & violence is not appropriate. Swearing & violence every other word isn't just uncreative, it will actually hinder our overall view of your Role-Play. If you are unsure whether the amount of swearing & violence in your RP is too much or need to get confirmation on doing something excessive, you can PM a member of creative and we'll discuss whether or not the swearing/violence is appropriate to post within your RP.
Again, I don't think the violence is really the biggest problem in this RP, so let me first discuss the next few things and then we'll get around to how it all comes together.
Dialogue: Unfortunately the rules only discuss swearing, and not generally offensive rhetoric. This RP doesn't even have a terrible problem with swearing, but the general way that it attacks women was clearly offensive to a lot of the fed. I think we need to acknowledge that words like "****" and "****e" are in the same category of generally offensive rhetoric and were probably used excessively here. I think it's clear that using a lot of offensive rhetoric makes for a worse effect than does excessive swearing. We've objected to and voted against RP's that swore excessively before, but they didn't elicit a response like this. So we need to also acknowledge that offensive dialog is as bad or worse than swearing in some cases, and I think perhaps the rules should reflect that better. Let me discuss one other point first before getting to that:
Sexual Content: This is also not explicitly reflected in the rules, which I'm going to address, but I think this is perhaps where the RP goes the most wrong. The vulgar actions both taken and suggested are what, to me, makes the RP particularly uncomfortable, for a lot of the same reasons the offensive rhetoric does.
I think ultimately where the RP goes wrong is that it's simply in poor taste. Something like this is extremely difficult to define but it is kind of a "know it when you see it" sort of thing. When enough of creative and the fed at large has this kind of a reaction to something, it's obviously not in very good taste. The dialog and the sexual content, combined with the probably excessive violence, ultimately made this an uncomfortable RP to read and one we had to delete. But this isn't the first time we've run up against this kind of issue in RP's before. We had a discussion around similar issues when Vega killed a guy in an RP, and when there was a rape joke in an RP. It's happened before, which is why I think a larger discussion and a new rule are in order. So, let me propose an addition to the rules:
The Good Taste Clause:
Swearing and violence aren't the only things that can cross the line into making an RP offensive. In general, avoid doing anything in poor taste in your RP's. Read over what you've written before posting it and ask yourself - is anything in here going to make the majority of the fed feel uncomfortable from reading it? Am I going to touch off widespread negative reaction with what I'm doing in this RP? If the answer to those question is yes, don't post it. If you're unsure, check with a creative member first.
Swearing and violence aren't the only things that can cross the line into making an RP offensive. In general, avoid doing anything in poor taste in your RP's. Read over what you've written before posting it and ask yourself - is anything in here going to make the majority of the fed feel uncomfortable from reading it? Am I going to touch off widespread negative reaction with what I'm doing in this RP? If the answer to those question is yes, don't post it. If you're unsure, check with a creative member first.
I don't want this to be a mandate coming down from me, and I'd like to just have everyone discuss it openly. Feel free to propose changes to the wording of the statement of the rule. This is a discussion for the entire fed to have, not just creative, so let's try to have some level headed discourse about it and come to a better way of reflecting this in our rules.
