Sin Cara.... Future great?

[Victor1111]

So Sin Cara got off to a seemingly bad start after some botched moves.

However After watching tonights RAW I can see Sin Cara is definitely feeling a little bit more comfortable too the WWE style of wrestling.

His entrance wasn't botched, the crowd was more behind him than Cena, he is entertaining to watch, & not just that he has a presence, he has not cut a single Promo yet the entire crowd seemed into him.

He is the 2nd Mexican luchador to come to the WWE this year, (Alberto Del Rio being the first) he was in a match with poster boy Cena & WWE Champion Miz.

In my opinion he has all the makings to become an icon if he learns english of course.

So i'm curious as too what everyone else thinks about Sin Cara, does he have potential to be great?

 

[CanIHaveYourAttention]

I'm all for the acrobatic shit that he does, but can he actually do anything else? I would like to see him do some slams and other power moves, maybe submissions. I've seen his videos, I know he can do more that what he's doing now. I hope the WWE isn't limiting him to just the acrobats.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Uhhh, he was in a tag against the most over heel/face (depending on age) vs with the most over heel/face (depending on age) in the company. How exactly does that constitute as a great future?

In the sense of "does the company WANT him to suceed in relation to your average Mike Knox?" yea. In the sense of "WILL he get over more in relation to your average Mike Knox?" No, it doesn't show shit. In fact, until we see a feud with him vs a guy we won't really know.

I think it's funny, and shows how fickle the IWC is that we have "KUHREAR OVA!!!" and "FUTURE GREAT" within a month. Calm the hell down and just watch for a while. Saying he'll be amazing or a failure this early is like saying the Red Sox will lose 100 games and/or the Indians will win 100 based off the early season happenings.

Exactly why I thought! WWE have found a starlet in Sin Cara, and if they use him properly, he'll be a great.
(Meaning as long as they don't bury him)

Explain. Don't just say "don't bury him". Explain how you can get a guy to be 'great' using him 'properly'. I hear this shit all the time "if used right" "if used properly" but they never give what is "properly". They just always bitch about this and that when he doesn't get over. They're like captain hindsight.

I'm not implying that's you BTW. Maybe you'll type some earth shattering, mind blowing shit on how to make Sin Cara the greatest thing since Slice Bread Number 2. Just saying I hate that phrase and that it's such an IWC staple.

 

[#SAWFT]

Explain.

Okay then, I will.
Put in him minor feuds first, that last a couple of months, Sheamus, Bryan, maybe winning the US title.
Then have him in a feud with maybe CM Punk. Just have Sin Cara being a "superhero" to people who CM Punk and Nexus are destroying. MAKE IT A LEGIT FEUD. Not any BS. Let this feud last for month, then I'd transfer him to Smackdown! and let him win the World Heavyweight title.

 

[TCBT]

Here are the things I worry about regarding Sin Cara:

1. His botched spots. He has botched a spot in every single match I've seen him in. He fell off the top ropes in his debut match and he missed the moonsault on Alex Riley.

2. He doesn't speak English. That's fine for now, but for long-term marketability, I don't see him lasting as much as, say, Rey Mysterio. That is unless he gets himself one hell of a manager, which doesn't seem likely at this stage in WWE.

3. He doesn't have much after the flips. Yeah, he's one hell of an athlete. But his biggest weapon is his biggest downfall. How safe is he in the ring? We don't know just yet, but the risk is inevitable. You can only do so many flips and moonsaults and dives and hurracanranas before you get hurt when you wrestle 300 a year.

I truly hope I'm wrong. I really love how they're pushing him, but I'm afraid he'll end up like Ultimo Dragon. Does anyone remember him?? And he was one hell of a name in Japan and Mexico.

 

[CanIHaveYourAttention]

I remember Ultimo and as I mentioned he needs to slow down a bit with other moves. I think he's botching things because he's going way too fast and probably losing concentration, I'm sure that mask doesn't help either.

I don't think it matters that he doesn't speak English, Taker didn't speak for a while when he first came out and it worked. Tonight's match was a bit odd, Sin Cara should have wrestled someone closer to his style and level.

On another note, he's undefeated so far.

 

[H.A.M]

I have a lot of hope in Sin Cara. He is only doing all of these flips and flashy moves to get over with the crowd and kids and let everyone know what he is capable of. It is obviously working as people are behind him and even getting a reaction out of the crowd. I'm sure once he gets suited into a feud and gets more comfortable in the ring he will have more offence than flips and tricks. Give him time to develop into the star I'm sure he can be.

After the draft, I expect Sin Cara to start a feud on what ever brand he is on or continue with Sheamus and other bullies. Mind you he is still having to adapt to a whole new style and he may botch every once in a while in the process of adapting but his future seems bright as of now.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Okay then, I will.
Put in him minor feuds first, that last a couple of months, Sheamus, Bryan, maybe winning the US title.
Then have him in a feud with maybe CM Punk. Just have Sin Cara being a "superhero" to people who CM Punk and Nexus are destroying. MAKE IT A LEGIT FEUD. Not any BS. Let this feud last for month, then I'd transfer him to Smackdown! and let him win the World Heavyweight title.

What if they do exactly that and he doesn't get over? Because with his style, which mainstream america 9/10 times doesn't pop for unless you have super charisma, I don't see great booking alone getting him over. They're definately trying, givin him the Cena/Miz rub. He's going to have to prove himself. they'll give him chances, if he doesn't get over it'll only be his fault.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

you basically said "if they don't screw it up" implying that this is practically a can't miss for WWE. I'm saying that's not the case. Cara can most definately mess it up. His style looks fake, that has not once ever gotten over the with mainstream audience.

In other words, stop putting the pressure on WWE just because you like a guy. remember, they had Shelton benjamin beat HHH THREE TIMES and he still didn't get over. Who's fault is that?

 

[#SAWFT]

Your opinion verses mine. I think that Sin Cara looks quite convincing, to say he came from Mexico. He is used to wrestlers of that style. Everyone is gonna have to get used to it, Sin Cara in WWE's Style, and everyone else adapt a little to his style.
And I'm not putting pressure on WWE, I'm just on a high on Sin Cara.
I think he can do wonders for WWE. But that's just my opinion.

 

[sTyLnK]

All you can do is give it time. He has to overcome quite a few hurdles with the main one being he can't speak English, but I hope the WWE is patient with him. He has a lot of talent, the company knows this and if they keep throwing him out there I think he'll start to slowly get more comfortable. I'd like to think Mysterio is helping him try to adjust and all that. We shall see how things unfold.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Your opinion verses mine. I think that Sin Cara looks quite convincing, to say he came from Mexico. He is used to wrestlers of that style. Everyone is gonna have to get used to it, Sin Cara in WWE's Style, and everyone else adapt a little to his style.
And I'm not putting pressure on WWE, I'm just on a high on Sin Cara.
I think he can do wonders for WWE. But that's just my opinion.

This is the flaw. yea, it's opinion, but history backs up mine. Cara is the one who has to adapt. He's not adapting to the other wrestler's style, he's adapting to the audience preference. Wrestling is about the context of your audience, reading that, and adjusting.

I use this example, in Foley's book he's wrestling in like Puerto Rico, killing himself, just bumping all over, all sorts of shit. Nothing, not so much as a mouse fart. the guy he's working with says "snapmare into a rear chinlock" he does it, the crowd gets into it. It's all about context and knowing what your audience wants.

If Cara gets over on the phoney bologna dance-like lucha shit, which has never gotten over in front of the US audience without being adapted to fit the US style then I'm wrong. However, history tells me that there needs to me an element of realism and spontanaety added to his style. Not lucha added to everyone else's.

I hope he does get over because 1) it gives the IWC one less thing to bitch about and 2) it adds more "flavor" to the show. I'm a fan of Mistico, I was watching him on my DirecTv on Sunday afternoons a few years ago. I knew who he was and marked a little when I saw his promo packages. That said much like Danielson and every other guy I follow outside the WWE, I realize that Mexico isn't the US. Mike Quackenbush doesn't even consider Lucha and American pro wrestling the same thing, but cousins.

 

[#SAWFT]

Ah, I didn't say Lucha added to everyone else's. I mean so the WWE superstars are able to take at least one or two of his Lucha moves.

 

[Victor1111]

you basically said "if they don't screw it up" implying that this is practically a can't miss for WWE. I'm saying that's not the case. Cara can most definately mess it up. His style looks fake, that has not once ever gotten over the with mainstream audience.

In other words, stop putting the pressure on WWE just because you like a guy. remember, they had Shelton benjamin beat HHH THREE TIMES and he still didn't get over. Who's fault is that?

There is one fundamental difference with guys like Shelton Benjamin & Sin Cara, thats PRESENCE.

Did you hear the crowd on Raw tonight, "Sin Cara Sin Cara" I don't recall the crowd being as into another high flyer that hasn't spoke a single word like they get behind Sin Cara.

Another fundamental difference is Marketability, how much money could have been made from Shelton Benjamin or Morrison in comparison to the money Sin Cara can & will make the WWE just by the mask.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

I agree, Benjamin was basically a video game. Could pull off anything but not charisma at all.

However, I still believe that Cara will have to adapt his style. to me Mexico and the US are like baseball and basketball, just because you're Michael Jordan in basketball doesn't mean you're going to be Albert Pujols in baseball unless you can adapt.

I like him, he has a ton of potential and is already moderately over (you guys exaggerate cara's cheers almost as much as Cena's boos).

If he's still getting chants and is carrying a feud and is getting babyface sympathy by SummerSlam, then yea, he's adapted, he's going to be a stud. I'm not saying he won't be, I'm just saying that it's too early and he really hasn't shown much of anything other than he has a ton of athletic ability and that he needs to adapt. So it's two-fold.

he hasn't really been in a situation for a full evaluation yet.

 

[allentown18]

damn give the guy a break hes just getting use to wwe style.in the long run sin cara could be huge.hes already got most of the fans behind him.i just think wwe threw him in to quick they should of had him wrestle more house shows but i think hes progressing.

 

[Azane]

all I thought about tonight, was how well he hung with Cena, and the WWE champion, pretty damn impressive match to be a part of so soon in his WWE career, definitely the strongest wrestler in there.

Sin Cara is going to be a very strong mid carder, but his lack of promo ability is going to kill him in today's WWE. We've seen translators and such in the ME scene, but Vince has stated he's more into the E than the W part of the company, so I can't see SC going past a strong midcard attraction. We don't want another Great Khali who can do a moonsault.
I'd love to be wrong in this respect, because he is a treat to watch in the ring (and I bet he's amazing to watch in person). Alberto Del Rio is no slouch in the ring, but his promos are what keep him around the main event.
Sin Cara is going to need to do something to distinguish himself from "The new Rey Mysterio" because at the moment, that's all the casual fans will recognize him for.

 

[Guyzwitgunz]

In my opinion he has all the makings to become an icon if he learns english of course.

That just proves right there why he will NOT become an 'icon' To make it in the WWE you have to know how to talk!

 

[Heavens Vibe]

He can talk.. he just cant talk in English! There is a difference...

Hes great! He does what we want to see, and works well with the other wrestlers, him and John worked well together, but what really caught my eye was how He and Alex Riley seemed to work well in the match especially with the language barrier, they both sold each others moves well and seem to be able to handle the fast pace together.

 

[93178]

Hes been in the WWE (On TV) for less then a month and already has a couple of shirts out and kids are showing up to the shows wearing his mask. As long as hes making WWE money off of the masks and shirts they will give him time to get used to everything.

He can do more then just the spins and flying around, its just we have only seen him in short matches so far so all they had him focus on was the high flying moves to get the kids and other peoples attention to show how hes something different then most of the other "entertainers" in the WWE. Once he gets into longer singles matches he will start showing more. Remember hes only been in a couple of matches now in front of the WWE crowds, it takes time to get used to that.

I really want to see Cara either just stay on SmackDown or get put there during the draft. SmackDown has Alberto and Rey on there as well as some of the other more high flyer guys who I think Cara could have some excellent matches with. I think Alberto and Cara could have a really good fued which would be pretty easy to start. Just have Alberto start getting jealous of how over Cara is and go on about how they both came from the same places (CMLL) and you could have Alberto start talking about how the WWE wanted him first before Cara.

Would also kind of be cool (depending on how long Rey is staying around) if they put Rey and Cara in as a tag team and let them hold the titles for a good amount of time.

 

[Greydon]

Sin Cara needs a manager or a voice to get over. He won't be able do feud or do promos if he can't be understood. Maybe this would be the time for a face to come in or be moved up who is good on the mic, and help build this guy up more.

 

[hollowpoint]

to be this mexican superstar that everyone claims him to be, he certainly botches a lot of spots. It seemed like the Miz didn't know what the hell he was doing when they worked together. It's too early to bury him and it's WAAAAAAAY too early to crown the guy. Give him a little time and everything will work out one way or another. IMO though, he needs a lot of work and probably needs to add a little bit of substance to the flash. Im pretty sure that's creative's work, but it does need to be done.

 

[Tully]

I'm tired of his move-set already. Tired of flying cross body blocks, tired of that 'flip 'em by the neck' move that relies almost entirely on the opponent flipping himself to sell the move.

and tired of the botches. That A-Ri pin last night was a complete joke.

 

[CelticCorey]

People botch. Perhaps Riley was positioned wrong. You guys go ahead and complain about Sin Cara botching but most of us and most of the roster wouldn't even dare TRY doing this shit. There will be mistakes and he has an off the wall style.

And I don't care what ANYBODY says about mic skills. They may get you further but RING SKILLS are more important to me. Why? If I'm going to buy a PPV, I want a good main event. I'll take Sin Cara vs. Rey over Cena vs. Miz even though I love Miz. But why? Sin Cara/Rey will be a damn good match but Cena/Miz will just suck. That's how I look at it. And what bothers me a great deal is how some people on here accuse others of not supporting the business when many of us are willing to do so and then we don't matter because we're not the target audience.


I for one will do everything in my power to get Sin Cara bumped up. I would love a mask.

 

[Macabre]

Hes been in the WWE (On TV) for less then a month and already has a couple of shirts out and kids are showing up to the shows wearing his mask. As long as hes making WWE money off of the masks and shirts they will give him time to get used to everything.

He can do more then just the spins and flying around, its just we have only seen him in short matches so far so all they had him focus on was the high flying moves to get the kids and other peoples attention to show how hes something different then most of the other "entertainers" in the WWE. Once he gets into longer singles matches he will start showing more. Remember hes only been in a couple of matches now in front of the WWE crowds, it takes time to get used to that.

I really want to see Cara either just stay on SmackDown or get put there during the draft. SmackDown has Alberto and Rey on there as well as some of the other more high flyer guys who I think Cara could have some excellent matches with. I think Alberto and Cara could have a really good fued which would be pretty easy to start. Just have Alberto start getting jealous of how over Cara is and go on about how they both came from the same places (CMLL) and you could have Alberto start talking about how the WWE wanted him first before Cara.

Would also kind of be cool (depending on how long Rey is staying around) if they put Rey and Cara in as a tag team and let them hold the titles for a good amount of time.

I like the idea of Rey and Cara teaming up for awhile. The WWE probably doesn't want to have two masked guys with similar styles on the same show, which makes sense. But Sin Cara could have much better feuds with the current SD roster than the RAW roster. And since he's still learning English and adapting to the WWE's style, it would do him a world of good to team him up with Rey. They would automatically resurrect the tag-team division and make it relevant again. Then we could get a Rey/Cara feud down the road as a springboard to bigger/better things for Cara.