Should there be a union?

[Dwayne_Jason]

I see a lot of wrestlers getting released for the wrong reason and getting thrown away like trash. Serena was thrown away because she wasn't "committed" to her role, Danie Bryan got thrown away for a while because he was "violent" on a damn wrestling show. I understand drug-related firings but there needs to be a wrestler's union that makes sure there is an escape from the business should one want it. There are certainly exceptions such as Jericho and The Rock but think about it, they're in another more massive entertainment aspect. If Jericho is released he'll just be a Rockstar. If Orton is released he can do modelling, he can appear in movies, same with HHH, same with Cena. But what about Santino, JTG, the guys who, if the 'E deems useless are thrown away. They're outta jobs and gotta start doing the indies. I say there needs to be a union that says how much they're paid a night, how is their contract handled and negotiated, and health coverage if there is any injuries. The Cenas of the 'E wouldn't like the idea because the 'E takes special care for them and they don't really have much to worry about but the midcard and the low card, that is where this is really pointed at. In my opinion if wrestling is unionized, a drug abuse case will be very rare.

 

[hunterXhunter21]

Maybe for something like health care should be looked at. But WWE seems to have the right idea with paying for ex wrestlers rehab. As for the random firings, these people are not stupid. They knew getting into wrestling would be hard and that only a select few make it big. If anything being fired from the WWE they can go back to the indy feds and charge more. But they know the ups and downs and take that risk when they decide to get into wrestling. I don't know all the legal but in Indiana you can be fired with out given a reason and I think with out them even having one. So I would guess WWE has to use CT laws on that stuff. Also, a union would make things messy somewhat. Who can join? Can some guys wrestling for 20 people 1 night a month get in? Do you have to join to be hired by WWE? What about TNA? Can you onlky join if you are in WWE/TNA/ROH? Plus I think its hard for fans to really have a say in this kind of stuff.

 

[Dwayne_Jason]

Well, the fact that that law is in Indiana says a lot. I mean no offence to your state but without a reason termination can be anything to save money, to corruption, to racism, to the boss just not liking you. The union represents the wrestler's working rights. If they need some time off, they can get it, if they tweaked a muscle they might need medical attention, that sort of thing. For example, Orton dislocated his shoulder at Fatal Four Way, not he most likely went through hell but he still appears on the show. If creative made a storyline where Edge took out Orton that would put over Edge as well as give Orton time to return in a bout 3 weeks. Travelling, contracts expiration that sort of thing is why someone needs a union. And ROH is too small time to have a union, so I don't know about that, and TNA can't afford it.

 

[LigerBomb]

You'd think after doing a TV show for 900 episodes your "cast" would be card carrying SAG members by now.

That said, the ol' union boondoggle perhaps works in theory but couldn't ever get off the ground. At least not in the current economical climate (Or any climate come to think of it. When times are tough—as they certainly are now—no one wants to risk their neck. When times are good no one wants to miss out on the ensuing windfall. People are selfish). Without going into too much of the in-and-outs let's just say Vince would squash unionization faster than the wrestler formerly known as Vinnie Vegas could job out Bob Backlund (yay wrestling references).

But beyond the fact that no one would be stupid enough to personally lose their job over the mere talk of unionizing, one of the bigger problems is that unions only work when people are in it for the collective. Only problem is wrestling just so happens to be full of the most selfish and egotistical people on the planet. Oh, and they don't trust one another either. Not the best jump-off point.

For it to work basically all of WWE's top guys—and a very good portion of the remaining talent—would have to sign on board and risk getting fired/going on strike/breaching their individual contracts. For a multitude of reasons that's probably never going to happen. Heck, according to guys like Jesse Ventura, something similar was contemplated years ago and WWF golden boy Hulk Hogan was the one to stooge off and derail the whole idea.

In addition they would have to extent an accord to any available TNA guys and/or indy guys to not go a become scabs/new WWE employees. It would truly have to be a wrestler's union and not simply a WWE union. Simply put, a union is probably needed but supremely unlikely to ever see the light of day as long as it's basically a one company show here in the States.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

The idea has been around for decades but the fundemental stumbling block is the burning issue that asks "What are wrestlers"... Are they sportsmen, stuntmen or actors?

The reality is that Wrestlers are actors.... and its the Screen Actors Guild that should be looking after them. WWE makes much of being the longest running episodic TV show... a soap, yet its stars are not protected by the same union as its rival presentations like Desperate Housewives or The Expendables.

A specific wrestler union would be a step back as they would be moving back into the realm of sport and thus and invite the athletic commissions and the federal government into wrestling, both already hate Vince...

If SAG got involved then it would complete the journey Vince set out on, that wrestling is indeed a soap opera...WWE says as much when it boasts about RAW's longevity... But it would also mean that next time there is a Hollywood Actor's strike cos George Clooney wants more money from DVD's then the WWE would shut down too... that wrestlers would have to be paid "scale" and more importantly residuals on every time a piece of action is reshown to scale... "How many times is action replayed?" it would cripple WWE... not to mention that people who were in the best interests of Hollywood would be deciding policy that affects something they generally sneer at in Wrestling...

Vince has a system that has worked for 30 years... some changes have been forced... but beneficial... the offer of rehab to ANYONE who ever worked for them is far above what any union has ever offered... If SAG had offered paid rehab, would we lose so many actors?

Serena's firing is no different to that of Iron Sheik and Jim Duggan in 1987... While kayfabe is not as important as it once was the lines were clear... today however its less simple but Serena "broke kayfabe" too many times... Undertaker doesn't do anything to draw attention to himself out of the ring to protect his gimmick, it's not much to ask Serena to curb her drinking in public to fit her "straight edge" gimmick... lets face it the SES was running its course anyways... a year of not partying v a longer term career... most employers would expect that...

If SAG were involved, immediately WWE would be censured, constitutional rights would be bandied about etc... Vince doesn't need that for a minor talent not doing as asked by her bosses...

The danger of a wrestlers union would be even worse... it would be formed by either men like Vince, Taker, Flair... who are old school and influenced by old ways foremost... or by newer wrestlers who were not around to be influenced positively by the old ways.. For every horror story of them beasting rookies back then there are 20 good road stories... Newer talent might come at it from unrealistic perspectives. Getting the balance would be impossible... TNA guys under the same rules as WWE guys and as small Indy wrestlers? no... cos if Cena gets wasted before the 900th episode of RAW so you can't perform IS different to missing a show to 80 people in a gym... Both would be unprofessional, but WWE would have more to lose... even if the promoter of the small show lost his house...

The current system is ultimately fair enough to remain for a long long time... Wrestlers are told what is expected and they have to follow it... Some places have more stringent rules, but if you consider something your vocation and want to make it a career its always better to hold yourself to the rules of the top rather than the botton... Those who do make it to WWE and its top matches are those who early on learned this... those who don't, don't get there or stay long... Survival of the "fittest" I guess you'd call it...

WWE could do more to foster the indy scene that it once destroyed... Next time a wrestler dies... instead of making offers of rehab, set up a fund to help pay for medical insurance for workers under 25 on the Indy Scene... or college scholarships for good prospects... Make financial planning and pensions a requirment for all workers coming into the biz... These would do more than any union could...

 

[Honkey_Kong]

Unionizing is pretty stupid of an idea. And a pro-wrestling union would never work even if it were to be created.

Let's suppose this. The working conditions in the ring are unbearable and they travel too much. So the union votes for strike. What's stopping Vince from saying "okay, you guys are all fired, I'm getting some scabs and none of you will ever work in this business again."

Vince is of the belief that HE creates the stars and he can create new ones if and when he wishes. There is also way too many wrestlers dreaming of making the big time WWE that he has a huge pool to draw from for scabs. And if wrestlers went on strike, what promoter would actually want anything to do with those guys? They'd probably end up effectively blacklisted from every promotion around Indy's included.

And by the time a wrestler makes it to the WWE, he knows what he's getting in to. He knows he's expected to take some bumps on a regular basis, travel long hours, have problems getting health and life insurance, etc. That's part of the package they're getting in to when they sign their contract. They could always demand better conditions in their contract or find another line of work (or another employer).

On top of that, who's interests would a union look after anyways? Cena's or the Barry Horowitz'es? Don't kid yourself, the union wouldn't protect anyone except the top guys (with a lot of stroke) anyways. Look at regular labour unions, they never look after the guys who belong to them and most of them are required to belong in order to keep their job.

Unions much like all other communist ideas are bad ideas.

 

[Carpathian Florist]

The Cenas of the 'E wouldn't like the idea because the 'E takes special care for them and they don't really have much to worry about but the midcard and the low card, that is where this is really pointed at. In my opinion if wrestling is unionized, a drug abuse case will be very rare.

How do you know there won't be Cenas of the union too?
There's the whole theory of picking your battles, if you bitch and moan about absolutely everything including the minor stuff, when the major stuff crops up you're left with less leverage. However if you let the minor stuff go, your claims when it comes to something major look more legitimate because you don't come across as picking on anything and everything just to be an annoyance, but as someone with a good cause you're willing to fight for.
So who would decide which battles the union would choose to fight?
I am not even sure how a union works, but the union must make money out of this somehow, so if it comes down to money who is going to be more valuable to the union, someone like Serena or someone like John Cena?
I think a union would become just as corrupt as the current WWE system and wouldn't serve much purpose except restricting the product even more than the PG era allegedly has.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

It's an interesting idea in theory but it's just not something that can be realistically applied to pro wrestling. Unlike the NFL or NBA, professional wrestling as a network of seperate entities that all exist to essentially do the same things but not in the same way. A union in the WWE simply will not happen as long as Vince McMahon has a breath in his body. Vince McMahon is an absolute control freak and he will not simply give up the control and iron fist rule that he's had over the WWE since he bought it from his father nearly 30 years ago. Any attempts at unionization in the WWE at this point would result in it being squashed in almost no time at all and whoever came up with the idea would be fired.

In order for a union to work, it'd really need to be something that not only applied to the WWE but to every other wrestling company in operation and that's simply not going to happen. If you think that politicians waste time with posturing, squawking and arguing, can you imagine what it'd be like if you were to get together a gaggle of even a few dozen wrestling promoters together in order to come up with some sort of plan? It'd be Bedlam, pure and simple.

If someone wants to even attempt to organize a union in WWE, then the only remote chance of it happening will be when Vince McMahon goes to meet his maker. Whomever you believe that maker to be is entirely up to you.

 

[Dwayne_Jason]

Here's how I look at it, if the Miz comes down on the ramp and says something that upsets the shareholders but puts him largely over in a heel or a face, Vinny will care about the shareholders rather than the Miz. The PG rating has following guidelines:

D for some suggestive dialogue
L for infrequent coarse language
S for some sexual situations
V for moderate violence

Now, we already have the Moderate Violence part, but if I seem to remember correctly, Orton beat Sheamus senseless. Not moderate. Now, since Orton is a top guy he'll just get a slap on his wrist but if it were Evan Bourne, he'd job for life or be released

Language and dialouge is needed an most good promos to incite emotion. "Hell" "Jackass" things like that are needed to get the crowd pumped why? Cause he sweared and if he swears he must be pissed. If Cena says it, it's cool. If Bourne says it, goodbye.

You see the difference? The problem is that the top tier guys have the protection from management but the low-card and mid-card and up and comers do not. As far as what sort of unionization it can be, I say sports because ultimately it is sports and movies. But sports nevertheless. And if they union had bad blood against Vince well, Vince needs to behave and relax his grip under Pro-Wrestling. See, the selfishness in pro-wrestling is breeded from the top: Because everyone knows Vinny is a SOB, and they need to look out for themselves. But if Vinny let things slide and relax his grip, and let the union handle wrestler's release rather than Vince wrestlers would become more relaxing and less selfish because of the job security they get due to unions.

 

[Remix]

No for one simple reason. Wrestlers aren't employees. They are independent contractors. WWE doesn't need to treat them as salaried workers, so they dont.

As for helping wrestlers who want out. They're fucking adults. if they're too short sighted to think of a way to make money after their short career ends then that's their own damn fault. There's a reason that the normal advice for people who want to be wrestlers is "finish your education". And it's so that if your career doesn't work out as planned (and chances are it wont) then you can go get a real job.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

No for one simple reason. Wrestlers aren't employees. They are independent contractors. WWE doesn't need to treat them as salaried workers, so they dont.

As for helping wrestlers who want out. They're fucking adults. if they're too short sighted to think of a way to make money after their short career ends then that's their own damn fault. There's a reason that the normal advice for people who want to be wrestlers is "finish your education". And it's so that if your career doesn't work out as planned (and chances are it wont) then you can go get a real job.

Yes, wrestlers are adults... they are also involved in a high risk profession. Sure noone forces them to be wrestlers, but without them WWE would be nothing... WWE does not have to treat them as salaried workers but it does have to work within the law and good practice as a traded company...

Paying for rehab is one thing, but telling wrestlers to "finish your education" is not the answer... If WWE wants the 20 year old rookie that badly, now, then it is not practical for them to wait till they are 24 and what made them appealing may have gone...

One thing WWE does do well is media training, wrestlers of all levels are given time on camera, lessons in how to act around the media and opportunities to do appearances etc... they have the chance to parlay those skills into other careers later...

What WWE can do is insist that all private contracters they employ are covered by adequate medical insurance, that they attend mandatory drug/alcohol training as part of their inductions with the company and set up some kind of trust to help young wrestlers outside their system get an education and insurances.

They aren't obliged to, but it would certainly shut a lot of critics up if they did...

 

[Remix]

Yes, wrestlers are adults... they are also involved in a high risk profession. Sure noone forces them to be wrestlers, but without them WWE would be nothing... WWE does not have to treat them as salaried workers but it does have to work within the law and good practice as a traded company...

Which it does. In fact, a lawsuit against them alledging the opposite was dismissed.

Paying for rehab is one thing, but telling wrestlers to "finish your education" is not the answer... If WWE wants the 20 year old rookie that badly, now, then it is not practical for them to wait till they are 24 and what made them appealing may have gone...

Actually, that's the advice given by everyone from Grizzley Smith to JR. and WWE isn't going to want a 20 yearold now. since that 20 yearold would spend at least 2 years in developmental.

One thing WWE does do well is media training, wrestlers of all levels are given time on camera, lessons in how to act around the media and opportunities to do appearances etc... they have the chance to parlay those skills into other careers later...

Then why have so few wrestlers be successful in other media after finishing with WWE?

What WWE can do is insist that all private contracters they employ are covered by adequate medical insurance, that they attend mandatory drug/alcohol training as part of their inductions with the company and set up some kind of trust to help young wrestlers outside their system get an education and insurances.

It's not WWE's job, duty or any thing else to hold their tallent's hands and help them sort themselves out. THese people are grown men and women. If they're too damn stupid to get health insurance, or have no preparations for when they retire that's their own fault, not WWE's. Look at the young guys in WWE now. What do they have in common? They all have degrees. Barrett has a BSc in Marine Biology, Drew McIntyre has a degree in criminology, Swagger has a degree in finance, John Cena has a degree in exercise physiology. Not getting a real qualification is their own damn fault. No excuses for being shors sighted.

They aren't obliged to, but it would certainly shut a lot of critics up if they did...

The critics who don't fucking get that wrestlers are adults who should be responsible for themselves?

 

[MMK]

No for one simple reason. Wrestlers aren't employees. They are independent contractors. WWE doesn't need to treat them as salaried workers, so they dont .

They're is so much wrong with this quote i dont know where to begin.

It's puzzling to me that WWE has continually been allowed to classify their wrestlers as "independent contractors", depriving them of entitlements such as sick leave, fair pay conditions and holiday leave. The courts dismissed Raven's case that he should be treated as an employee based on the fact that he had signed a contract declaring that he was an independent contractor. By all measures the court takes into account of what is an employee, WWE wrestlers meet all requirements.

-It's a continuing series of tasks as opposed to a single specific task
-The equipment(costumes etc.) are provided and maintained by the WWE
-They have a salary and are paid at regular intervals, as opposed to being paid at irregular intervals
-WWE controls the schedule and hours of work, wrestlers have no control over the hours they work which an independent contractor would.

As a result WWE continue to get away with exploiting their workers with tough schedules and poor working conditions. It's no wonder Jesse Ventura wants to and has attempted to start a labour union. Unfortunately most of these wrestlers dont have the balls to stand up to Vince and it has nothing to do with their steroid abuse but rather their own moral cowardice to look out for their fellow employees.

Once you've signed a contract you are not an independent contractor. If WWE Wrestlers were independent contractors as Vince and idiot fans everywhere classify them, then they would be allowed to go work for ANY organization they want at any time. But they cant because THEY'RE NOT INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS! They are signed to WWE period. If they were independent contractors Orton, Cena, Miz and whoever could go work for TNA this week, then a different place next week. But they cant do that because they are WWE EMPLOYEES and as such should be entitled to certain benefits. But Vince is a cheap skate who will cut corners any way he can to make a profit.

My head is spinning after reading some of these others answers. I yi yi yi yi. This is how Vince gets away with this stuff for so long, because fans dont know any better.

 

[Remix]

They're is so much wrong with this quote i dont know where to begin.

What's wrong with it? Wrestlers aren't employees, thus have no reason to be treated like them. End of story.

It's puzzling to me that WWE has continually been allowed to classify their wrestlers as "independent contractors", depriving them of entitlements such as sick leave, fair pay conditions and holiday leave. The courts dismissed Raven's case that he should be treated as an employee based on the fact that he had signed a contract declaring that he was an independent contractor.

You answered your own question there buddy.

By all measures the court takes into account of what is an employee, WWE wrestlers meet all requirements.

They also meet the IRS's rule of thumb for beind indipendant contractors.

-It's a continuing series of tasks as opposed to a single specific task

Nope, each event is deemed work for hire per the contract the wrestlers signed. if you hire a window cleaner once a week to clean your windows, he's still an independant contractor and not an employee. No reason to be considered as such for wrestlers.

-The equipment(costumes etc.) are provided and maintained by the WWE

WWE also owns these objects and when you're done with ther company you have to give them back. they don't belong to the wrestler, they're just borrowing them for the duration of their contract. Just like if your window cleaner borrows your hosepipe to fill their buckets.

-They have a salary and are paid at regular intervals, as opposed to being paid at irregular intervals

if your window cleaner came regularly, he'd be paid at regular intervals too.

-WWE controls the schedule and hours of work, wrestlers have no control over the hours they work which an independent contractor would.

Three words: Work for hire. WWE pays you for the time you spend there. If you hired sonebody and paid them for two hours of work, that'd be exactly what WWE's doing.

As a result WWE continue to get away with exploiting their workers with tough schedules and poor working conditions. It's no wonder Jesse Ventura wants to and has attempted to start a labour union. Unfortunately most of these wrestlers dont have the balls to stand up to Vince and it has nothing to do with their steroid abuse but rather their own moral cowardice to look out for their fellow employees.

Or alternatively they'd rather get paid by Vince than fired by him.

Once you've signed a contract you are not an independent contractor.

Um, no.

If WWE Wrestlers were independent contractors as Vince and idiot fans everywhere classify them, then they would be allowed to go work for ANY organization they want at any time. But they cant because THEY'RE NOT INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS! They are signed to WWE period.

All in the wording of the contract. The wrestler signs a contract saying that WWE can exclusively use their services. That doesn't stop them being independant contractors. I'm sure this is explained in the wrestler's contracts. Everything is explained in the contracts.

If they were independent contractors Orton, Cena, Miz and whoever could go work for TNA this week, then a different place next week. But they cant do that because they are WWE EMPLOYEES and as such should be entitled to certain benefits. But Vince is a cheap skate who will cut corners any way he can to make a profit.

They're entitled to shit. They signed the contract.

My head is spinning after reading some of these others answers. I yi yi yi yi. This is how Vince gets away with this stuff for so long, because fans dont know any better.

THey get away with it because they have an absolutely bulletproof contract. The fans have noithing to do with it.

 

[The 1-2-3 Killam]

It's an interesting idea, to say the least. Here's how I see it though:

The WWE employs men and women under huge contracts to go out and perform in front of massive audiences, and do what they love for a living. They pay most of their travel expenses, medical bills, and even have rehab programs for people that need healing in other areas. It's not perfect, but the WWE does a lot for the people on their pay roll. Do I think John Cena has a better health care plan than the rest of the guys? I don't know...do I care is the better question... The point is, all the WWE asks for in return is hardcore dedication to the company, to your job, flexibility to be on the road all the time appearing whenever they want you to, and the humility to do what the writers ask you to do. Once in awhile they may put special limitations on people for unique circumstances. But come on, it's the WWE. If I had a job there, I wouldn't be complaining about a damn thing. You don't see Big Dick Johnson all over Twitter complaining about WWE using him incorrectly EVERY SINGLE DAY! (yes, that was a shot on Matt Hardy).

The only person that I don't think deserved to get released is Mickie James. Maybe she had an attitude, but who cares? Everybody in pro wrestling has an attitude. She didn't lose the weight, and they fired her. Personally I never really saw an issue with her weight, and she was still the best in the division for many years, and will probably continue to be better than anybody currently on WWE programming. But even in that case, I'm sure there was stuff going on backstage that nobody knows about.

Daniel Bryan got the boot because he couldn't follow WWE's PG code. Come on man. It's not that hard. He knew what he could and could not do, and that's that. You work for the WWE, you learn your role. End of subject. And you know what, they brought him back after they made him serve a punishment according to their own rules. It was fair. Serena got canned because she REPEATEDLY refused to not go out and get trashed with fans around. She's playing a straight-edge character... Seriously, she's getting paid 6 digits to NOT drink...For the love of Christ, don't drink... It's not hard. If you can't follow a few rules to do what you have dreamed of doing you're entire life, then you don't deserve to be doing it. I don't feel bad for either of them.

Matt Hardy is a guy who has been with the business for a billions years and still hasn't been in the main event without Jeff by his side. He has now taken to complaining about it over Twitter on a daily basis. But do you know what I think? I think that being in a job for 15 years doesn't qualify you to hold the company banner. Edge, Jericho, Christian, and Hardy have all been in for the same amount of time roughly speaking. Edge and Jericho are future Hall of Famers, no doubt about it. 9 time champion, and best in the world at what he does. They earned their spot. Not by being around forever, but by drawing, selling, and probably doing what they were told. But you can't just be a lemming to get what you want in the WWE. Some people just have the drive and talent to make it to the top. Edge has had several fantastic gimmicks that have made him who he is today... Matt Hardy has been the same guy since day one, more or less. He's never sold more than a moderate amount, and I really don't think Vince and the big boys are too high on him. Veteran status does NOT make you World Champion. End of story. Or else guys like Finlay, Goldust, and Mark Henry would be leading the company right now.

Back to the matter at hand. I don't think there needs to be a union to make sure wrestlers don't get dumped on their ass for no reason. They all have potential, or they wouldn't be there. The boys in Cryme Tyme probably won't go anywhere but the future endeavored pile. They worked as a tag team because of their gimmick, but never got THAT over. Maybe it's bookings fault. Or maybe it's THEIR fault for not proving to booking that they had what it takes. We don't always see what's going on behind the scenes. We see what they show us, and what they show us has kept them on their airwaves for a billion and a half years. So...no...I don't think they need a union. I think they need to man up and do their jobs.

 

[MMK]

I don't think there needs to be a union to make sure wrestlers don't get dumped on their ass for no reason. They all have potential, or they wouldn't be there. The boys in Cryme Tyme probably won't go anywhere but the future endeavored pile. They worked as a tag team because of their gimmick, but never got THAT over. Maybe it's bookings fault. Or maybe it's THEIR fault for not proving to booking that they had what it takes. We don't always see what's going on behind the scenes. We see what they show us, and what they show us has kept them on their airwaves for a billion and a half years. So...no...I don't think they need a union. I think they need to man up and do their jobs.

This is an example of missing the point entirely. They are all employees of WWE, whether we're talking about JTG or HBK, it doesnt matter. As an employee you are entitled to certain benefits. WWE is sports-entertainment. It's Hollywood meets the NFL. Actors have the screen actors guild and the NFL has a players association, the WWE should have a union as well. And it doesnt matter whether youre the star of the team or the movie or whether youre a struggling supporting player, all players and actors are in the same boat as a way to protect each other. These are very basic fundamental things. And no group of people need it more than Wrestlers as they are dying younger and younger every generation.

Take Lance Cade for example. He recently passed away at 29. He became addicted to painkillers during his stint with WWE because, out of fear of losing his spot on the roster, he decided to continue wrestling injured as opposed to taking sick leave and recovering like you normally would do if there were a union. This is yet another example of the unnecessary risks wrestlers have to take. And its the guys at the bottom of the roster who are the most vulnerable, ie the Cryme Tyme's and Lance Cade's of the world.

The only reason RAW got to 900 episodes is because they, unlike the NFL or Hollywood, never have an off season. It's easy to get to 900 episodes when you never take a break. These wrestlers work year round. They, more than anyone, should have the benefits that would come with a union for wrestlers.

But Vince doesnt need to do it because if someone suggests it he'll just fire them. And where else are they gonna go? No where. But if they all banded together, they could get something done. But wrestling features too many egomaniacs for that to happen. And the wrestlers that do try get blacklisted. I hate being confrontational with fellow wrestling fans, but this is the one issue that, as Peter Griffin would say, really grinds my gears.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

What's wrong with it? Wrestlers aren't employees, thus have no reason to be treated like them. End of story.

You answered your own question there buddy.

They also meet the IRS's rule of thumb for beind indipendant contractors.

Nope, each event is deemed work for hire per the contract the wrestlers signed. if you hire a window cleaner once a week to clean your windows, he's still an independant contractor and not an employee. No reason to be considered as such for wrestlers.

WWE also owns these objects and when you're done with ther company you have to give them back. they don't belong to the wrestler, they're just borrowing them for the duration of their contract. Just like if your window cleaner borrows your hosepipe to fill their buckets.

if your window cleaner came regularly, he'd be paid at regular intervals too.

Three words: Work for hire. WWE pays you for the time you spend there. If you hired sonebody and paid them for two hours of work, that'd be exactly what WWE's doing.

Or alternatively they'd rather get paid by Vince than fired by him.

Um, no.

All in the wording of the contract. The wrestler signs a contract saying that WWE can exclusively use their services. That doesn't stop them being independant contractors. I'm sure this is explained in the wrestler's contracts. Everything is explained in the contracts.

They're entitled to shit. They signed the contract.

THey get away with it because they have an absolutely bulletproof contract. The fans have noithing to do with it.

As I mentioned in my first post, they ARE independant contractors for a TV Episodic show... they are ACTORS!... they make movies with that talent...

Just like the casts of True Blood, 24 or any other show... Where Vince is clever and the SAG have missed a trick is that WWE superstars should be under the actors unions if it truly is "entertainment"... It beggars belief that its never been looked at...


George Lucas has been blackballed from directing a movie for years for defying the union... Actors not in the SAG generally cannot get big roles without joining a union... so how do WWE get away with it?

Cos Vince created a genre of "sports entertainment"... He can legitemately say "till George Clooney shows up on RAW and throws a moonsault"... that WWE stars are different from actors yet ironically he can put his wrestlers into movies... thats why I find it amazing he risks putting actors into matches...

 

[The Pagan]

Should there be a union. I don't know but on the main page it says that "WWE is currently being investigated by Connecticut state officials over its classification of wrestlers as independent contractors."

So we could be seeing a change in the near future if this investigation goes anywhere, which I imagine that it will.

 

[The Brain]

I do not want to see a union. WWE can survive the departure of Hogan, Austin, Rock, Cena, or any other top star. WWE can survive threats from rival companies. WWE can survive going from rock n wrestling to attitude to PG or any other format they go with. WWE can survive anything from a creative standpoint. A union will eventually kill WWE. It is the one thing they can’t survive. Those who support the union can talk all you want about how fair it is and how it’s the right thing to do. How will you feel two years later when there is no more WWE? You can take comfort in knowing you supported what you believed in but at what cost? Eventually everyone, including all employees not just the independent contractors, would be out of jobs and we wouldn’t have our favorite form of entertainment anymore. Anyone who works for WWE knows what they’re getting themselves in to.

Guys like Raven and Kanyon know how the game is played and are all too happy to collect a paycheck, but when things don’t go their way it’s suddenly unfair. If they don’t like it they should have found another line of work. WWE may not offer healthcare to wrestlers, but they always pay for an injured wrestler’s surgery. The ones who complain are the ones who didn’t have the foresight to prepare for life after wrestling. Because they are making money, traveling the world, and recognized wherever they go, a lot of people live an unnecessary extravagant lifestyle. Those of us who work normal jobs use our paychecks for the necessities in life and use whatever little is left over for reasonable forms of entertainment. Some wrestlers have fame and fortune thrown their way and don’t have the sense to realize it won’t last forever. When time finally runs out it’s everyone’s fault but their own life didn’t turn out the way they expected.

If we want WWE to survive things need to be left alone and wrestlers need to take more responsibility in managing their own lives.

 

[CyDeez]

I think it is a good idea overall. These guys work hard and deserve the best treatment and working conditions possible.

There are upsides and downsides to most topics, as well as this one.

I for one, say a Union would be an upside and truly could ONLY work as a positive for the wrestlers themselves!

 

[billm75]

People said a player's union would never work in the NFL and look at it now. The guys went from making an average wage to making life changing money just by signing a contract. The players went from being stuck on whatever team signed them (and suffering whatever the coaches wanted to put them trough) to being able to negotiate terms, trades, etc.

Now with the WWE, I think a SAG union would benefit them. They'd at least have some basic, guaranteed representation. Vince would NOT fire them all and bring in scabs. How would he make any money with guys like "Joe Schmoe from Diddlyfuck Indiana" when guys like Cena, Orton, etc are out there doing whatever they want? A union is more than just a strong arm tactic for the performers, it guarantees that they can't be released without reasoning, that they can't be exploited simply for profit and that they cannot be restricted in finding work should they get released. It would also insure their safety.

Plus a union works both ways. For the Union to get, say, time off for wellness issues WITH pay, they would have to agree to something the company wants. Right now ALL of the power is in the company's hands and that's NEVER good for the employees. A performer who no-shows an event would have the union AND the company on his ass. Wouldn't you prefer to work for someone who has to respect your basic personal rights? Right now, the WWE can and has released employees, buried them, etc based on their whims.

Some bad things can happen from unionizing, that's for sure, but the economic climate would not affect the success of forming one. Remember, the performers need to get paid, but so too does the company. Firing your money makers is kind of a stupid thing to do in a poor economy....and if you want to hurt the WWE you do it through their bank accounts.

 

[billm75]

removed double post