Should the British Bulldog have been World Champion?

[MINISTRYrising]

the other day i asked if bam bam bigalow should have been world champion or not. after reading so of the posts that you guys left i started thinking. who else should have been world champion and the person that jumped to mind was the british bulldog. so should he have been world champion or do you think wwe was right in never making him world champ

 

[theBec2101]

yes. he was a great talent and wrestler. i think he would of too. but the wwe at the time was trying to clean itself up image wise and he had to go the first time.

 

[donfryeismyhero]

I remember hearing that during his last run, McMahon wanted to put the belt on him. I don't remember all the details as to why, I'm sure it was in part due to the Owen tragedy & maybe even to try & heal wounds from the Montreal incident. What hurt him though were a couple of things. Davey was never a great promo guy & when you're competing for the top spot with the likes of HBK, Stone Cold, HHH, Rock, Diesel & heck, even Bret & Taker you really got to step up your game on the mic. Prior to his back injury, Bulldog was a great wrestler but you could tell when he made his comeback that he wasn't the same wrestler we had seen in the WWE only a couple of years prior. And finally, his drug addiction to pain killers I think was the final nail in the coffin in terms of Davey getting the World title. I do believe Vince had wanted to but it just never worked out due to the reasons stated above.

 

[sdelfin]

I'm old school, so I don't care about playing hot potato with the title and letting everyone have a turn with the belt. Was the British Bulldog great? Yes, he was. I loved him in the 80s in the British Bulldogs. Great team and ahead of their time. British Bulldog had a role in the company and was great in it. And he went about as far as he possibly could. No, he should not have been a major world singles champion in that time period. He was not good enough in the ring to be THE top guy. He was not a good enough talker to be THE top guy. He was not over enough to be THE top guy. Was he even reliable enough? Bulldog was perfect in the spot he had. He was a great supporting babyface. He was good as an antagonist heel who couldn't quite dethrone the champ. And he got runs with the IC title, tag titles, and was the first European champ(won in a tremendous match with Owen, as I recall). And he got a run near the top for a long time. That's a great career right there.

 

[MFR0mack]

There was a thread made on this very recently and I'll reiterate here what I explained there: absolutely not.

Davey Boy had some basic ability, but never really had the true talent or personality to make a mark in the business. The guy's whole image was "I'm roided up and I'm British" and there was absolutely nothing to his character other than that. He could be carried to good singles matches when he had a good opponent (Bret, Owen, Shawn, etc), but his matches by himself (such as against Neidhart, Diesel, Henry Goddwin, Sid or others who didn't exactly have a lot of talent either) always stunk out the building. His tag team work was always sub par, as well. Dynamite and Owen picked up all his slack for their matches. And let's not forget the horrible tag team he had with Lex Luger.

On top of all his issues in the ring, the guy wasn't all there outside of it, either. He let drugs completely wreck his mind, to the point where he couldn't even remember spots in matches (Bret explains in his book how he pretty much had to hold Davey's hand through their Summerslam encounter). His promos always made him seem air-headed and rambling and he couldn't talk for shit.

Let's be honest, the only reason he got the ovation he did when he won the IC title was because he was pretty much the last British wrestler in WWF at the time. He was never a huge draw outside of that one moment in England. Plain and simple, nobody would have cared about him with the title. He wouldn't have been able to cut a promo on anyone, as a heel or a face or work with all comers like greater champions have been able to.

People always say Owen Hart gets given too much credit after his death and ask if he really deserves it. Owen does, because at the very basis of everything, he was a good wrestler, he was good on the stick and he could hold his own in a one-on-one match and make his partner look good in a tag match. Bulldog, however, gets given far too much credit. I don't speak about him as a person and his loss was tragic, but in terms of the business, he was just never a guy that could break through the glass ceiling.

Bulldog was never supposed to be Intercontinental champion. He wasn't even supposed to win the title at Summerslam. Bret was supposed to drop the belt to Shawn Michaels, Bret just suggested moving the event to Wembley and making Davey Boy the interim champion until he ended up dropping it to Shawn. Basically, the only reason he got the title is because his brother-in-law asked for him to get it -- as in, he didn't earn it of his own merits. The fact that he spent the whole week before Summerslam smoking crack with Jim Neidhart shows he never had the right mind for the big spot on the card, either. He wasn't even supposed to be made European champion, that decision was made after Bret did more and more bitching that Vince hadn't "lived up on his promises to Davey." He basically accomplished nothing himself, he had his world champion brother in law ensuring he was pushed.

 

[closet_fan]

While BB had the look of a world champion, I agree with everyone else in the fact that he wasn't good on the mic. Plus, I am sure Vince wouldn't want to take a chance on giving the belt to someone who had so many bad habits. It's kind of like when WCCW gave Kerry Von Erich the belt and then quickly gave it to Flair. He wasn't reliable. I think the same thing would have happened to BB. He just wasn't reliable enough to give him the belt. Especially when he was on so many drugs at the time.

 

[Lowdown]

Back in 96, I really thought WWF was gonna put the strap on Bulldog. He was talented and quite the journeyman. His highlight was Summerslam '92, winng the IC strap from Bret. But like most everyone said Davey Boy had issues with drugs outside of the ring that eventually lead to his downfall. He wasn't great on the mic, but he did have the look of a credible champ. But should he have ever been world champ? Probably not. He just didn't have it in him to carry the company. Back then the champ was somewhat viewed as the face of the promotion, not like the way it is now. Bulldog could put on a good singles or tag team match, but that's where it ends.

 

[Nada]

No

He was unbelievably uncharismatic, dull and lame. Despite having a physique that most men would kill for, he was a absolute bore to watch. His wrestling however was just fine

I think people saying "yes" to this topic, do so because they compare him to todays talent, where geeks like Miz and Swagger got to hold a world title, and that is fair

But remember the period that he was in, there were guys so far above and beyond him that it would have been a disaster to put the title on him.

 

[EastCoastFan]

Davey Boy Smith was a great wrestler, but he never really had the mouth or the personality to get the big belt. At most, they might have given him a brief run if they were doing a tour of Europe, but that's about it.

 

[whoopin' ass]

no but i would have believed it if they made him champ for a short while. something was just missing but if they had constructed a storyline where he won it for a month or two, i would have bought into it. he was best when he was working a tag team.

 

[god-soldier]

I disagree with a lot of people I believe Bulldog would have been a great WWE champion face or heel regardless of what anyone says he had the crowd over whether he was face or heel!!!! He was a great wrestler and could have a great match I think he would of made a better champion in 95 then Kevin Nash and in 96 then Shawn Michaels both Nash and Michaels were terrible champions and could not win over the crowd or draw at all!!!!!! If Davey Boy Smith was given there spot face or heel he would of done a better job as champion!!!!!!! In late 99 as well he could of been a great transition champion when the title was being passed around I still believe him as champion was a missed opportunity by WWE and He should of won the 95 Rumble when people thought he won the place went crazy!!!!!!

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Now this could be long so bear with me...

First off let's get the bias out the way, I am British, I met Davey Boy the weekend of SS92 and for most of his career he was in my top 3 faves.

My first WWF memory is when UK wrestling would alternate with WWF showing one week a month. This was 86, The Bulldogs were the champs, they had Matilda and they were fighting the Hart Foundation. Instinctively I liked Bret, I liked the shades, the image and the name "The Hitman". I thought the Bulldogs were a little cheesy as they walked to the ring. Then the match happened and it is perhaps the one match that got me hooked at the age of 9... This was a routine defence, not a PPV match, the one I think they showed on the old VHS when the Harts wore blue...

From there, I followed when I could, the next I really saw was Summerslam 88, The Bulldogs were on the outs as a team and it showed but I could see something in Davey Boy at that time, perhaps it was cos Dynamite was so hurt, but I had a feeling DBS was capable of more than he was showing.

Fast forward to 1990, when I am getting into the "smart" side of the business, and I hear about Brutus' accident and the replacement is...Davey Boy... he's changed his look, is built like the proverbial shithouse, has dreadlocks and is "the next big thing" then as quickly as it happens, car crash... Tornado is in...

For those first 2 years it was clear that DBS had missed his window, he always did well in Royal Rumble's but the moment he pressed Flair but didn't hurl him over the top you kinda knew the outcome. Same the year previous when he casually sat on a buckle so Perfect could dropkick him off...

Then I woke up one morning and watched TV-AM, the then equivalent of Good Morning America and he is there announcing Summerslam at Wembley and he is fighting Bret... This is 1992 and my first OMG moment, forced my dad to take a day off work to ensure tix and saw the best match to that time.

Davey could easily have taken Bret's spot as World Champion then if not for the scandal beginning for form around Vince, indeed if Warrior had been a bit more considerate and discreet then DBS would have not been released. His first IC reign was pitiful and it showed the moment he went into the ring with Vader that Vince had either made a massive mistake, or a massive sacrifice. Two of the rare good memories of WCW then was Vader being slammed on the floor so hard he couldn't get up...and "he fell on his fooking arse" and we all know what moment that was.

Davey came back and it looked like again he was gonna be passed over... then Shawn won that belt and his first feud was his best. I am a firm believer Davey should have won one of those title matches and dropped right back to Shawn the next PPV. Sure the power failed at one but Shawn could have stood the loss, blamed it on being "too cocky" and rebounded to be a much more resilient champ.

Vince chose otherwise and chose poorly. He had clearly promised Davey the title at some point, going so far as to create the Euro belt to appease him, but again, he got screwed over by Shawn. He left to show loyalty to Bret, but had he stayed he'd have got his belt. I guess it wasn't worth it for him to take it like that when he, the fans and Vince knew he should have had it earlier.

Why? He was the most over, gifted and technically proficient non-American wrestler of his era. Dynamite was better for the early days, but Davey evolved from a chubby gymnast innovator to a legit alternative to Hogan for non US fans, to a tag specialist heel. And he was a great heel! When he turned on Diesel it was the most shocking turn since Shawn... It had impact because you could sense his frustration and there was an element of "shoot" to the turn. Which in 94/95 was unheard of.

Sure his mic skills weren't the best, Regal gets the win on that one but if I had to choose Regal or Davey to have their career including a World Title, I pick Davey. Regal could (sadly) never sell out Wembley for a MID CARD title match... for all his gifts he could never capture the imagination the way Davey did with his unique look and way of doing things.

The proof? Vince treated Davey ESPECIALLY well compared to almost all talents. Every rehab was paid, multiple rehires and main events when he was there. Even when he was clearly struggling physically. Davey had his demons, I would bet a lot came from being repeatedly let down by Vince and knowing he was better than he was being used.

 

[MFR0mack]

Davey could easily have taken Bret's spot as World Champion then if not for the scandal beginning for form around Vince, indeed if Warrior had been a bit more considerate and discreet then DBS would have not been released. His first IC reign was pitiful and it showed the moment he went into the ring with Vader that Vince had either made a massive mistake, or a massive sacrifice. Two of the rare good memories of WCW then was Vader being slammed on the floor so hard he couldn't get up...and "he fell on his fooking arse" and we all know what moment that was.

First off, Davey was never in a position to take the title off Bret in the early 90s. Regardless of the fact that his name was on a list of steroid users, Vince McMahon wasn't going to put the title on anyone showing clear steroid abuse in 1992 through 1994 because of the trials he was facing. This is why smaller guys like Randy Savage, Ric Flair and Bret Hart were made champions, along with Yokozuna, who wasn't muscular. Secondly, Davey Boy Smith was released because his name was on a list of steroid users -- both he, the Warrior and several others -- were receiving shipments of steroids from England. Bulldog's firing was not the Warrior's fault, had nothing to do with being considerate or discreet. It had to do with Bulldog being an idiot.

I am a firm believer Davey should have won one of those title matches and dropped right back to Shawn the next PPV. Sure the power failed at one but Shawn could have stood the loss, blamed it on being "too cocky" and rebounded to be a much more resilient champ.

And what would that have done for Bulldog? Nothing. It would have been pointless. "Hey, let's give the belt to a guy who can't use the microphone and can only have a good match with guys who are better than him! Then let's take it off him in a month. This doesn't help Davey, this doesn't help Shawn, it doesn't make interesting TV, but derp derp let's do it!"

He had clearly promised Davey the title at some point, going so far as to create the Euro belt to appease him, but again, he got screwed over by Shawn. He left to show loyalty to Bret, but had he stayed he'd have got his belt. I guess it wasn't worth it for him to take it like that when he, the fans and Vince knew he should have had it earlier.

Vince never promised Davey the title, he promised Bret he would "figure out more things to do with him." He created the European title and gave it to Davey to appease Bret. Bulldog really wouldn't have anything in this business if he didn't have Hart brothers defending him. He never got "screwed over by Shawn." He wasn't working as a European champion, he wasn't getting a reaction, nobody cared, so they gave the belt to Shawn to give him more heel heat and after that, it turned into a real title, that got defended and everything. He would never have gotten Bret's belt had he stayed, that's just laughable. By 1997, Davey Boy Smith was a drugged up, fucked up mess.

Why? He was the most over, gifted and technically proficient non-American wrestler of his era.[

His in-ring talent was limited, he had no microphone ability and when was he ever over? The only reason UK crowds ever cheered for him is because he was the only guy from the UK, not because of his character itself. At One Night Only, Shawn Michaels got almost as big of a pop as Bulldog did coming out and he was the heel. You can't just state things that are blatantly contradicted by the guy's entire work history and expect it to be believed.

And he was a great heel! When he turned on Diesel it was the most shocking turn since Shawn... It had impact because you could sense his frustration and there was an element of "shoot" to the turn. Which in 94/95 was unheard of.

Wow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EO-x2NFW5dk

He gave Diesel a weak clothesline to the back, gave some awful looking slaps, and a running powerslam, then celebrated with Men On A Mission. There's no element of "shoot" in there. That all looked like an incredibly scripted and predictable wrestling angle. Anyone who found it "shocking..." smh

The proof? Vince treated Davey ESPECIALLY well compared to almost all talents. Every rehab was paid, multiple rehires and main events when he was there. Even when he was clearly struggling physically. Davey had his demons, I would bet a lot came from being repeatedly let down by Vince and knowing he was better than he was being used.

No, Davey was not treated especially well compared to others. Vince has had a long-standing business approach of paying for wrestler's rehabs since 1993. Anyone can be rehired multiple times (Tensai?) and Bulldog only got main events and title shots when his brother-in-law spoke up for him. By the time 1999 rolled up, Bulldog was only rehired so Vince could show he was doing something good for the Hart family after Owen died and after putting him in one main event and seeing that he was worse than ever and more fucked up than ever, he pretty much relegated him to lower-card jobber.

 

[ShinobiMusashi]

I think they could have booked him as a monster heel in 93-94 similar to how they did Yokozuna, and he would have been better. There are a lot of guys that I feel would have been better in that spot that Yoko got in 93-94 with the long title reign. Bam Bam, Vader, and Bulldog are the top 3 guys that come to mind when thinking of who would have been better in that push. The matches at least would have been much better with Bulldog in that role. Just think about Wrestlemania X with Bulldog being the reigning dominant champion that has to face Luger and then Bret(who was coming in off of a loss to Owen that night).

 

[HBsam31]

I think he could have had a run with the title. I think people here are underestimating how over he was with the fans. Not even counting the match in England against Bret. He had great fan support, and I don't think he was as bad on the mic as people are saying. The guy was over, he had the look, and I definitely think he should have had a least a short run with the title.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

First off, Davey was never in a position to take the title off Bret in the early 90s. Regardless of the fact that his name was on a list of steroid users, Vince McMahon wasn't going to put the title on anyone showing clear steroid abuse in 1992 through 1994 because of the trials he was facing. This is why smaller guys like Randy Savage, Ric Flair and Bret Hart were made champions, along with Yokozuna, who wasn't muscular. Secondly, Davey Boy Smith was released because his name was on a list of steroid users -- both he, the Warrior and several others -- were receiving shipments of steroids from England. Bulldog's firing was not the Warrior's fault, had nothing to do with being considerate or discreet. It had to do with Bulldog being an idiot.



And what would that have done for Bulldog? Nothing. It would have been pointless. "Hey, let's give the belt to a guy who can't use the microphone and can only have a good match with guys who are better than him! Then let's take it off him in a month. This doesn't help Davey, this doesn't help Shawn, it doesn't make interesting TV, but derp derp let's do it!"



Vince never promised Davey the title, he promised Bret he would "figure out more things to do with him." He created the European title and gave it to Davey to appease Bret. Bulldog really wouldn't have anything in this business if he didn't have Hart brothers defending him. He never got "screwed over by Shawn." He wasn't working as a European champion, he wasn't getting a reaction, nobody cared, so they gave the belt to Shawn to give him more heel heat and after that, it turned into a real title, that got defended and everything. He would never have gotten Bret's belt had he stayed, that's just laughable. By 1997, Davey Boy Smith was a drugged up, fucked up mess.



His in-ring talent was limited, he had no microphone ability and when was he ever over? The only reason UK crowds ever cheered for him is because he was the only guy from the UK, not because of his character itself. At One Night Only, Shawn Michaels got almost as big of a pop as Bulldog did coming out and he was the heel. You can't just state things that are blatantly contradicted by the guy's entire work history and expect it to be believed.



Wow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EO-x2NFW5dk

He gave Diesel a weak clothesline to the back, gave some awful looking slaps, and a running powerslam, then celebrated with Men On A Mission. There's no element of "shoot" in there. That all looked like an incredibly scripted and predictable wrestling angle. Anyone who found it "shocking..." smh



No, Davey was not treated especially well compared to others. Vince has had a long-standing business approach of paying for wrestler's rehabs since 1993. Anyone can be rehired multiple times (Tensai?) and Bulldog only got main events and title shots when his brother-in-law spoke up for him. By the time 1999 rolled up, Bulldog was only rehired so Vince could show he was doing something good for the Hart family after Owen died and after putting him in one main event and seeing that he was worse than ever and more fucked up than ever, he pretty much relegated him to lower-card jobber.

Ok, well you are entitled to your opinions... most of them are sadly very wrong indeed.

Davey's ring work was far better than you are making out, it only suffered detrimentally towards the end of his career after the back injury. That he worked as a powerhouse wrestler for most of his career belied the FACT that he could do a lot more and that showed in some of his best matches. He went down the "roid" path because Vince wanted him to be bigger and a "foreign Hogan" and for a time he was. He could easily have been in the WWF title picture in the early 1990s and yes the roid trial was an inconvenience for Vince, but it didn't stop him selling out Wembley with 2 roiders in the main events. Davey Boy could have easily cut back on the juice and still been around. Sadly Vince panicked...

In his 2nd run, and when with Shawn, he didn't need the mic cos he had Jim Cornette as his manager, and go back and look, Davey did ok during that fued on the mic. Why? They used Diana who was always a helpful "side character" for him, Davey was clearly more comfortable with her around and his 2 best feuds involved her. Shawn would have benefitted from that early loss, nearly everyone on these threads for different wrestlers agrees, maybe some think Vader should have got it but Davey was someone who could have had a one or two month run, prolonged Shawn's "chase" (which was his only truly compelling solo angle to that time). It would also have given Shawn more time to settle into the main event picture and get used to being the face of the company, something he didn't handle well to begin with.

Ultimately they did it anyway, but used Sid... now if you really think Sid deserved that title over someone like Davey you really are out there...

 

[MFR0mack]

Ok, well you are entitled to your opinions... most of them are sadly very wrong indeed.

Davey's ring work was far better than you are making out, it only suffered detrimentally towards the end of his career after the back injury. That he worked as a powerhouse wrestler for most of his career belied the FACT that he could do a lot more and that showed in some of his best matches. He went down the "roid" path because Vince wanted him to be bigger and a "foreign Hogan" and for a time he was. He could easily have been in the WWF title picture in the early 1990s and yes the roid trial was an inconvenience for Vince, but it didn't stop him selling out Wembley with 2 roiders in the main events. Davey Boy could have easily cut back on the juice and still been around. Sadly Vince panicked...

Wow. Jesus Christ. You can't call people "sadly wrong" when you blatantly make false things up and use them as facts. Davey Boy started using steroids before Vince ever bought Stampede Wrestling. The Dynamite Kid is the one who informed Davey about steroids and their uses and they did them together. Bret Hart writes extensively about both of their drug problems in his book. There was no plan for a "foreign Hogan" and the Bulldog never fit that role. And like I've said before, you can claim Davey Boy had all the skill in the world... But it will never show throughout his career. The only good matches he ever had were with guys that were better than him and could carry him. For every good couple matches he had with Bret, Owen or Shawn, he had dozens of snoozefests that stunk out the building with guys like the Warlord, Henry Goddwin, Ahmed Johnson, Neidhart, Diesel or IRS. A truly gifted wrestler is one who can get in the ring with anyone and have a good match. That never applied to the Bulldog.

Vince didn't "panic." Davey Boy was caught illegally buying steroids and fired for it. He wouldn't "cut back" because he was a drug addict. He wasn't going to cut back on crack or painkillers, either, those were two of his favorite things. This is the second thread where you lie and blatantly make things up to support an argument for the British Bulldog, but it just makes your whole side look really, really sad.

In his 2nd run, and when with Shawn, he didn't need the mic cos he had Jim Cornette as his manager, and go back and look, Davey did ok during that fued on the mic.

A champion shouldn't be doing "okay" on the microphone. A champion should know what to say, how to say it and how to mold the crowd with his words. Go back and look at anytime Davey Boy Smith was around a microphone in 1996 or 1997. The crowd went dead anytime he got near a stick. That's not world champion material.