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Should people who contribute nothing to society die?

Crush1

Getting Noticed By Management
I have been thinking a lot about this subject. I know it's kinda inhuman to ask this question but I just want to know the answer. Now let's get to the point, do you think that gangsters, rapists, criminals, hoodlums, corporate exploitators should just die? I know that this may sound crazy but I think they do.


Just look at the facts these people do nothing but waste the energy of the earth, steal, harm other people, kill inocents, extort third world countries and contribute nothing to society. Everyday when I walk from school to my home i see those same stupid kids of my age trashing, stealing and even killing...


If I see all the crap these people are causing the world woulnd't it be better just to let them die and releave us from facing these people ever again?
Even one man or woman has the power to cause harm to the world the likes Hitler, Stalin, Bush have caused grief for so many people around the world.


Well I know it's kind of farfetched to compare street thugs to world leaders but the concept is the same. If these people wont and have no intention of changing their ways, wouldnt it just be better to let them die? think about it if a thug dies another child and baby will get to eat. Supplies are running out in the world yet we keep on wasting so much. These thugs care more about bling money and killing then about the environment and others




So when they do nothing but cause harm to society, I think they deserve to die...




Who agree's with me and who doesnt? feel free to discuss.
 
I'm a believer in the death penalty, so for convicted murderers and rapists, I definitely think they should die. As you say, they contribute nothing, and do nothing except hurt people, the world would be a better place without them, and I'd personally laugh if I saw a rapist/murderer being killed. That sounds evil, but I don't really care.

Thugs etc. I'm not so sure about. I think they definitely need to have something done, and it comes down to the prison sentence. People can get away with assaulting someone. What does community service do? Nothing. Tough sentences for crime. I don't even think community service shuold be a penalty. You break the law, you go to jail.
 
And I will take the opposite end, and say the death penalty is archaic. I also believe the world has to act as a balance as well as everything that is happening right now only exists because everything else in the world is happening. I am not saying that theology exists per se, more of a butterfly effect.

If we kill a killer, are we not a killer ourselves? If we live in a society with blood on our hands we are just as bad, if not worse than the original killer. We knew what we were doing, and many killers do not. Some may suffer from medical cognitive conditions that prohibit reasonable thought which is defined by our folkways and mores. They would have no idea that killing is wrong in the society they live, as they do not possess reasoning skills. Is this their fault, should they be killed for this? No way, it is unreasonable.

If say it were possible to kill everyone who has ever killed, which I believe anyone is possible, so I wont even look at that problem. But if it was magically possible to kill all the killers, there will be a gap in society. That gap is gonig to be filled by people who do not belong in the position in society they are currently in. They will in fact, be pushed into the social role as a killer.

This is how society is based, there are roles, many of them are not positive in the positive perception of a society, but they do exist. Everything that defines our society also contributes to the existence of the negative aspects of our society. For every set of truly (defined loosely here) good people in society, there must be a portion of those who are not truly good people. These "bad" people define the good, and vice versa.

That is my small thoughts on the questions, though I also think one should bring up the argument against the death penalty that defines a verdict as never 100% accurate. How can you be a society that convicts people that are possibly innocent?
 
I think it all depends on what your definition of someone who contributes nothing to society is. Logically (or maybe illogically) all the people you named contribute to society, albeit in a negative way (It may also be said that they take away from society, but even that involves a sort of twisted contribution). I mean, gangsters traffic things, rapist rape, criminals commit crimes, hoodlums rebel against authority and corporate exploiters exploit.

Are those positive things? Hardly. Are they aspects of society and "contributions"? Yes.

The point is that these are people who are either merely making bad choices as a reaction to their environment, or are downright cold-hearted bastards that need serious professional help or a major shove into the "right direction." I think it's a bit harsh to claim that they contribute nothing to society.

I also think that it depends on the society in which one resides, and the physical space one occupies. While few will argue that killing, raping and thieving is "right," there is the ever so wonderful question of ethics and the argument that it may very well be for a "better" cause. Criminals often feel they have no other option but to commit crimes (as part of their environment, as I stated earlier). Rapists are often men with issues of power who have been abused by their mother or something of that nature.

Mind you: these are not excuses for their behaviors just reasons. There is a difference, though the two are often interchanged freely.

Everyone contributes something to society, even the evilest of motherfuckers. How society reacts to that contribution, however, is an entirely different question, albeit I think it may be the one you're musing over in this here thread.
 
I have been thinking a lot about this subject. I know it's kinda inhuman to ask this question but I just want to know the answer. Now let's get to the point, do you think that gangsters, rapists, criminals, hoodlums, corporate exploitators should just die? I know that this may sound crazy but I think they do.
Your right. it does sound Crazy. you think Young Hoodlums and Criminals should die? I know that rapists Murderers ect deserve that maybe but Hoodlums and Criminals?they don't. you can be a productive member of Society and still be a criminal or hoodlum.


Just look at the facts these people do nothing but waste the energy of the earth, steal, harm other people, kill inocents, extort third world countries and contribute nothing to society.
Question Have you ever stolen? I have, i am not ashamed of it but should i die becouse of it?
Everyday when I walk from school to my home i see those same stupid kids of my age trashing, stealing and even killing...
you just said kids. How old are you talking about? becouse under 16 they still have the chance to mature the fuck up. why should they die just becouse they are kids?

If I see all the crap these people are causing the world woulnd't it be better just to let them die and releave us from facing these people ever again?
No.

Well I know it's kind of farfetched to compare street thugs to world leaders but the concept is the same. If these people wont and have no intention of changing their ways, wouldnt it just be better to let them die? think about it if a thug dies another child and baby will get to eat. Supplies are running out in the world yet we keep on wasting so much.
your soloution for solving this seperate problem is to kill people.?
These thugs care more about bling money and killing then about the environment and others
Bling Money? if they are earning the money they have the right to buy whatever they want.



So when they do nothing but cause harm to society, I think they deserve to die...
And i Don't.



who doesnt?
:wave:
 
Tough subject here. I would agree with you for people such as rapists, murderers, all those types of criminals. They know what they are doing is wrong, but they decide to do it anyway. And they are causing grief and anger in other people, and yet some of these people still get to live like a normal human being. I believe that if you are a rapist, murderer, or another criminal in that type of category, you deserve to be killed. Why should you still stay alive when you want to hurt other people?

A for teenage thugs, it really depends what they are doing. If they're just graffiting, stealing or trashing a neighbourhood, big whoop. They're teenagers, and you still need to give them time to grow up and be more mature. If you saw the same people in ten years time, I highly doubt they would be stealing like they would have been in their teens. And anyway, the crimes they're commiting aren't even that serious, and its not like they're doing any real damage. So thugs and hoodlums do not deserve to be killed.
 
Tough subject here. I would agree with you for people such as rapists, murderers, all those types of criminals. They know what they are doing is wrong, but they decide to do it anyway. And they are causing grief and anger in other people, and yet some of these people still get to live like a normal human being. I believe that if you are a rapist, murderer, or another criminal in that type of category, you deserve to be killed. Why should you still stay alive when you want to hurt other people?

A for teenage thugs, it really depends what they are doing. If they're just graffiting, stealing or trashing a neighbourhood, big whoop. They're teenagers, and you still need to give them time to grow up and be more mature. If you saw the same people in ten years time, I highly doubt they would be stealing like they would have been in their teens. And anyway, the crimes they're commiting aren't even that serious, and its not like they're doing any real damage. So thugs and hoodlums do not deserve to be killed.

You're absolutely right, most criminals do know that what they're doing is wrong. At the time they're committing the crime, they may selfishly fail to see that they're going to hurt people, but they are still hurting people.
Call me a bleeding heart, but if somebody is committing serious crimes such as murder and rape, they aren't doing it for jollies most of the time. If they are, then there is something VERY seriously wrong with them. If we can find out what that is and study it, and attempt to rehabilitate it, we can determine warning signs and red flags in individuals. Through crimes people can commit, we might as well learn why they do it and how to prevent future incidences so that the victims didn't suffer in vain.

Furthermore, if we start deciding "You are useless and don't contribute, you deserve to die" that is an extremely slippery slope. Who decides what is useless? Who decides which severity of crimes deserve death? All of these questions are relative and subjective. Of course, then, there's the fact that the justice system is flawed. It is not uncommon for people to be "proven guilty beyond a doubt" who end up innocent....after they've been put to death. Terrible idea, and archaic. I can't believe parts of the US, one of the most "civilized" countries on earth still has the death penalty.
 
A very sensitive subject, more so than most people will think at first glance, as this goes way beyond merely death penalty.

Now as a European, coming from a legal system where death penalty has been abolished for quite a long time now and is regarded as archaic indeed, I am naturally against the death sentence. To put it simply, let us use the quote from Master Tolkien's Lord of the Rings:

"Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. "

This sums it up pretty well, for the central question is: What gives us the right to kill a person? We all do not live in such archaic times anymore, where only the strong and genetically superior survive at the cost of the weaker specimen's lives. We have agreed on a "social contract" so to say to live together in a society, and agreed to obey the rules of that society. Now most (and definitely all what we would call "civilized") societies have rules on what people may and may not do, in order to ensure a maximum of security and prosperity for all. Of course those rules have to be put down. This is done in legal systems. And of course these legal systems differ from country to country, and the death penalty is just a prime example. While in some places, it is "legal", in others - such as Austria - it is not. However, the mere fact that it is legal, the mere fact that such action is NOT punished by law does not mean that this action - e.g. death penalty - is "right" or "just". For those are purely ethical questions. So first and foremost, it is of utter importance to realize that only because something is or is not permitted by a certain legal system does not mean it is "right" or "just" in the ethical sense.

And it is precisely this ethical sense that creates a lot of questions, as once again we will have a myriad of viewpoints on this - the ancient Romans used to say: "quot capita tot sensus" - as many heads, as many opinions. Anyway, in this particular case, my two cents are those:

As said, I am strictly against death penalty. Firstly because it is an irreversible act. As we all know, courts are not infallible, and more than once have innocent people been punished for things they did not do. If you lock someone up, and even if its for 30, 40, 50 years - if for some reason it turns out it was a mistake, there is still the chance for him to get free and have at least some kind of life left. It may not always work out for them, but at least there is a small chance. If you straight out kill someone, it's over.

Secondly, how can I claim the right to kill someone? If a person commits a crime and murders someone, of course he must be subject to punishment; for if his acts had no consequences, all hell would break loose as society would crumble and fail. However, the "right" to kill someone cannot be given, in my opinion. We in our societies simply "take" it - especially in those where death penalty is legal. Human life is and also must be the ultimately highest value there is, as it simply is the be all and end all of our very existence; if this value is not regarded with utmost respect, everything else is rendered worthless in my mind.

And thus I think it never can be within the true intention of a society to legally permit an intrusion into this ultimate value of such grave effect as death. Of course, every kind of punishment must hurt in some way; or else it will not be effective as punishment. If you take someone's money or belongings as a "fine" for trespassing against law, it will hurt him and intrude on his right to private possession. If you lock someone up, it will have an impact on his right of freedom. But never should a legal system go so far as to devalue life itself so greatly that it would legalize the destruction of it. It is hypocritical to on the one hand cherish life and value it in the form that crimes against life itself are those which usually incur the most severe punishments and sentences, but then go so far as to legalize the extinction of that life. I find that somewhat irritating.

Basically, it also leads to the classical ethical dilemma that many of us know as example. You have this train that is approaching and cannot be stopped. On one track, you have a hundred people that will be run over if the train goes that way, and on the other, you have only one person that will be run over. Which way do you turn the lever, do you save one or do you save hundred? What may seem easy to decide at first is not so easy at all, and many philosophers have dealth with this issue. And ultimately, I believe the conclusion has been reached that one life cannot be outweighed against another; all life most be considered of equal worth; and I believe this has also been laid down in the European Human Rights Convention. And this is what is central to my opinion. For as soon as you say "This life is worth less than that life", you open the door wide for any kind of propaganda, for any kind of more than questionable laws and acts against a certain group of people - be it because of gender, ethnicity, citizenship, hair colour, age, look etc etc... For as soon as you open the door and more or less accept any form of this quote - that one life is worth more/less than another - then you let in a flood of consequences and you will not be able to stem that flood anymore; simply because you have crossed that one single border that could have held them all at bay. If you say that all life is equal, then there is no room for racism or discrimination of any kind. But as soon as you accept the questionable "fact" that - for whatever reason - one life could be worth less then another, you basically open Pandora's box; for there will always be people who find reasons to claim that one group of people's lives are worth less than others; and what happens then can best be seen if you look at the history of Germany and Europe in the years 1930 - 1945. A certain group of people was deemed "less" by another group, and via propaganda and gruesome tactics people were made to hate that group; and ultimately a genocide ensued - all based on the acceptance of that perceivedly simple sentence - that one kind of life is worth less then another.

Now that being said, of course it is unquestionable that criminals need to be punished; and severe crimes must be punished severely, as the function and existence of a society itself depends on it. However, with regard to my arguments above, I simply have to claim that a death penalty - no matter against whom, no matter on what grounds, no matter for what reason - simply crosses a line a society should not cross, as it basically undermines the very central principle it is created upon: to preserve and facilitate life for its members; and that must include ALL of its members - even the "bad" ones, the ones that break the rules and harm other members of this society. For that, of course they deserve punishment. And under that premise, "life" can and should never be subject to any form of assessment in "better or worse" life - life must always be the single most important element by which all other acts, rules and characteristics of a society are measured.

So once again - of course punishment is necessary, and severe punishment for certain crimes such as murder, rape or child abuse - but at the end of the day, there is a certain line that should not be crossed; no matter how terrible the crime, how cruel the person, how gruesome the act. And in my opinion, death penalty crosses that line. And that being said, of course the initial question of the thread starter can only be answered in a similar way: If I even disagree with a death sentence for people who have commited the most heinous of crimes, then I have all the more to disagree with the "extermination" of anyone who "does not contribute" to society. For as already pointed out: That in and of itself is a very, very dangerous thing to say. The implications and consequences this statement invokes can at some point be even more cruel and gruesome than the crimes you would use it against; and ultimately would take from us much of what makes us human.
 
I don't think people who contribute nothing to society should die cause some if not all those people have a chance to be agreat contributor to this society. Teenage thugs can be contributors to society(see me for an example) & possibly 5 to 10 years down the line chances are they won't be doing that shit anymore. As far as the rapist & murderers go I say just give them 1 chance to make things right & if they fuck that chance up by commiting a crime then lock them up for good.
 
Haven't bothered to read the other posts. I'm tired and naturally lazy as it is. You'll have to forgive me.

I'm dead set against the death penalty. I don't think that killing people - even those that commit the most severe of crimes - is the way a healthy society should operate. Obviously, I don't think they should ever be let out of prison - if their crime is really that bad, that is - but incarceration is apparently cheaper than the death penalty anyway.

I'm not spiritual or anything, as many of you well know, but I don't think it's anyone's place to take someone else's life. I'm even anti-abortion for Christ's sake. Of course, the death penalty has a lot fewer grey areas; the life you are taking is a life by anyone's definition, no matter how the owner has misused it.

A super efficient society where people behave themselves for fear of death is like some sort of weird, sci-fi dystopia. In short, it's fucked up.

So no, don't euthanise those that contribute nothing to society.
 
I read about the first two posts, then quit. First and foremost I'm AGAINST killing anyone. I'm NOT against the Death Penalty, but that's a slightly different situation than what you're asking in this thread.

The Death Penalty was set in place to put those who never change and constantly bring harm to everyone around them, including at times themselves. It was put in place to bring death and in some form a sense of "peace" to those that've murdered, and/or raped in selective cases multiple people.

However, in this thread you're asking if a common "street thug" or "gang member" should be put to death. You're saying you are fine with bringing death to those that basically don't attempt to help.. so are you willing to kill yourself? Because I'm sure a moment in time has passed where you denied help to someone, regarding something.

Obviously I know you'd say it isn't the same.. but in some manner, isn't it? Clearly you aren't (to our knowledge) a rapist, or a murderer.. but if you so easily are willing to put someone to death, merely because you think they aren't going to change.. aren't you, infact, a murderer?

Personally.. lock them up, give them rehab, allow them MORE than one opportunity to change. I'm not saying give them a knife, gun or other weapon of destruction and tell them to change or continue what they're doing.. I'm saying give them a full-chance to right the wrongs they've done.. instead of instantly saying.. "Well, they've done it once or twice, they'll always do it."

Look at each case individually, find out why they did what they did. Discover what the background for the crime was regarding, and if it had any type of merit, even though you can't truly find merit within rape or murder.. the fact is, almost everything happens for a reason.. so discover the reason and attempt to change it, before you instantly condemn the individual to his own brand of action.

We as a race, aren't the unforgiving kind. At least we shouldn't be. Violence be-gets more violence. You don't solve a thing by killing someone, outside of believing you bring a sense of "false peace" to your heart. Which you'll never be at peace with the decision, because what you truly would want is for whatever hurts you.. to be undone, and what's done is forever done. So no, death shouldn't be given unless there is absolutely ZERO alternative.
 

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