Should CM Punk be a tweener?

[MVA09]

Whenever we think about CM Punk or his character we always think about him as a rebel...especially since his shoot last June... Whenever we see him we think, here's a guy who talks nothing but the truth...straight from the heart...
But of-late if you see...he's not the same guy who used to drop pipebombs...something which we loved to see...Nowadays, we see him playing a typical face just like anyone else...and its really not fun to watch...So, what should he play...??? A heel...???NO...

Punk will fail as a heel because he speaks the truth and everyone appreciates that...so there will always be those who cheer him...

Punk will fail as a face because truth can sometimes be bitter...

SO, what role should he play...The best answer is a TWEENER...

Punk should be given full leverage to speak what he wants to speak and play the role of a tweener...If he wants to trash WWE...let him do it...if he wants to trash the fans...let him do it...Make him the baddest good guy in the WWE...Thats what will work for him...thats what he did last summer...He's anyways not going to be the company's face until Cena is around so its better to let him be himself...

There will be some who cheer him...there will be those who hate him...But at the end of the day, he'll be real fun to watch...

 

[HBsam31]

I know they wanted to make him into the very close second face, and he was even outselling Cena for a while as far as merch goes. I still don't understand why they watered him down so much though. He was mega over last summer, and they pulled the rug right out from under him. It's odd to say because he has been champ for 8 months, and you would think he was riding this crazy wave of popularity, but imagine if he had this same run with the character he was using last summer. What I am interested to see is what direction his character goes after losing the title. To answer the thread I do think tweener is the best route for them to take with him. I don't think it works to the fullest any other way.

 

[mikde_]

I hate this whole tweener thing because honestly they do not exist! People say austin was a tweener because he stunned a few faces every now and then but no he was as big a face as your likely to find. Same goes with punk! In WWE you are either a good guy or a bad guy unless you are in a transitional period between turns. I guess the only guy who has ever fit the mould of a tweener is Kane but even he is usually one or the other depending on the angle.

As for punk? I can honestly see him turning heel this summer. He is talented enough to get people to hate him and he has stated numerous times that he works better as a heel. Also he alluded to something big with Paul heyman so I wouldn't be suprised if he aligned himself with AJ, Heyman and Lesnar when hebis around. It all links up nicely to his 'I'm a Paul heyman guy' thing last year.

 

[JaceEvans]

Why fix something that ain't broken?

Punk is a HUGE success as a face and like I said a million times before that's the most difficult type of character to get over these days, usually faces only receive mixed reactions at best and at worst no reactions at all, Punk is receiving nothing but positive reaction from the crowd. Let's not try to reinvent the wheel here guys we all wanted Punk to succeed and while he may not be doing it the way you want him to he is getting the job done.

 

[Owen 3:16 says I just stole your Slammy!!]

The WWE should make CM Punk a tweener. I love CM Punk and I will always love CM Punk. With that said, He was in the perfect role last year. He was the guy who spoke the truth, if you like it then great and if you dont then fuck you, that was his attitude and i loved it. He got under people's skin and pissed them off til the point they want to kill him.

Now the WWE wants him to be the the typical face or good guy. He can't say the stuff he wants to say. Punk should be the guy who is a wise ass and says fuck you to authority, he is the greatest when he is himself. He should be a tweener and let him do what he wants to do. If they allow Punk to do what he wants, fans will go crazy like they did last summer.

I'll forever be a CM Punk fan. I think he is great at everything, I love his in ring skill, I love his mic skills. But, he would be better as a tweener.

 

[IT Factor]

Honestly, I don't think current form Punk needs to change. He's going out and having great matches with just about everyone. His mic work is still good, although not as great as his shoot promos were. But, I digress; every big name star that was a heel and went face plateaued at some point. It happened with Austin, it happened with The Rock, it is still happening with Cena, Orton, etc. Once these guys start doing a face routine, it becomes just that: a routine. Punk is skilled enough that he could still remain a face long enough to get a long title reign out of it, lose the belt, and then pull off a nice heel turn in the future. Although it loses its effectiveness if it's done too often. Punk is doing quite well as the WWE Champion and the current face of the company. Don't fix anything if it's not really broken. Besides, Punk would get cheered at this point in his career anyway.

 

[bizonatch]

He's lost his edge, he never should have been Cena'd into the good guy role; when I think tweener, I think Shawn Michaels, maybe even Ric Flair, guys who weren't (until old age) though of as "good," but beloved because of their surplus of talent!

 

[The Crock]

CM Punk is doing perfectly fine as a face and I don't see any reason to interfere with that. Pushing Punk into the grey area between heel and face won't add to his character, it'll only dilute some of the strongest characteristics of his character. Punk, as a face, is complex, but he's one of the most over people in the WWE (only behind John Cena, I reckon) and the crowd can identify with what he's saying -- he entertains them. As a tweener, I'm not so sure Punk would experience much success. Don't get me wrong, he's the number two guy in the company, he's VERY good -- plays a great face or a great heel, for that matter -- but if he's stuck in the middle, where can he go? His character has to have direction, so he can't flip flop between heel and face on a weekly basis, which means he can't play either side of his character fully. Basically, you're stuck with a wrestler who can't fully commit -- he'll eventually pitter out, just like the Randy Orton tweener character from a few years ago. Fans can't support someone who has no concrete direction, it's as simple as that.

My biggest problem with this idea isn't that it would cripple CM Punk's character (though, it would), it's that of makes no sense with the way WWE has been pushing him lately. He's the number two face in the company and he's the guy to fall back on when John Cena can't be there. Punk is strong enough to carry a brand by himself, which WWE really needs right now. If Punk were to approach tweener territory, he wouldn't be in that position any longer. You can't have someone who can't make up their mind between good and bad be your top guy -- even Steve Austin was pushed as a face/heel, rather than a tweener, and his character was very well suited for being a tweener, actually.

The idea of having Punk be a tweener just isn't appealing to me. Wrestling is all about good vs bad, and having someone blur that line takes away from the overall product -- especially if he's your WWE Champion. Keep Punk a face for the foreseeable future, then cash in on his major heel turn down the line -- the payoff is much sweeter if the transition in alignment is a full one, rather than going from tweener to face/heel.

 

[JoeMallard]

I see Punk turning heel. Punk has wanted to work with Paul Heyman. If WWE has Cena beat Punk, he should join forces with Heyman and Brock Lesner and a few other heels and have a Heyman vs WWE angle. WWE still hasn't had their BIG summer angle yet and this would be a perfect way to do it

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Hi new here, first true post....

I have been a Punk fan throughout and it's his honesty that gets him across. He genuinely believes he is the best wrestler in the world and is quick to tell us. You don't have to look much further that the wrestling lesson CM Punk and Daniel Bryan gave us at Over The Limit this year to see what these two smaller, less muscular guys are trying to say to the top brass.

'That' promo ripped everybody apart; McMahon, Triple H, Cena, the Universe, everybody, and thats because it was honest, and straight from the hip. I believe, rightly or wrongly, that he was leaving and that his contract hadn't been agreed and so he thought, 'fuck it, I'm going to tell them what is wrong with this company'.

He hates being called a superstar; he's a wrestler. He hates the WWE Championship belt and he says so. Why? Because it's hideous. Message to the Board of Directors - GET HIM ON THE MIC SOONER RATHER THAN LATER. CM PUNK IS A VERITABLE GOLDMINE IF YOU LET HIM RUN HIS MOUTH OFF!!!

 

[TheHorndogSays]

I've never been a fan of the term "tweener". How exactly does a tweener work? You have him attack John Cena one week than teaming with John Cena against Daniel Bryan and Kane the next? It makes no sense logically. Let him be one side and the fans will choose whether to cheer or boo him. In today's market the fans are smart enough to know who to cheer and boo. Look no further than Cena and Dolph Ziggler. Punk can still cut an "edgy" promo as a face. Look at his promos during the feud with HHH/Nash. You can still be edgy without being a heel. Why WOULD WWE turn him into a heel? Right now he is their hottest merchandise seller since Austin during the early 3:16 days.

 

[OG Mark]

Punk doesn't need a change, what he needs is a legitimate storyline. Since the feud w/ Cena last summer/fall, he's had random one-off builds to a PPV, then on to the next competitor. Del Rio/Miz/Ziggler/Henry (wow). None of them lasted more than about 6 weeks, and even the Jericho angle was 10 weeks tops. The "tweener" angle is easy to claim when you don't have enough of a plot to be face or heel. A legitimate feud would be a GREAT place to start. Maybe this Daniel Bryan thing will last more than a couple of PPVs...

Be careful when you straddle the fence too long, you might get something caught...

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Tweeners don't exist anymore. The term was invented for "bad guys who were good" back in the day (babyface). Basically the IWC refuses to cheer good guys because they think it makes them look smart.

Punk is fine as is. He's over and selling a ton of merch and is a great working-class babyface.

In today's wrestling, the audience isn't uniform. One action could cause some demographics to boo you, some to hate you. The main thing is, you have to do something that everyone can relate to. People love and hate Cena for a variety of reasons that really seem to touch a nerve. They still come out to see him, they still buy shirts and make signs saying how much they love/hate him. Same thing with Punk now.

Exactly, what would making him a "tweener" do? Honestly, I'm just sensing another IWC staple of "turn him heel/tweener so I can cheer him". It's annoying. Punk is over, why change it?

 

[Radio GaGa]

Tweener is a hard thing to pull off. I think there have only been a handfull of real tweenners, Jericho, Edge and Christian come to mind.

With Punk's current position, I wouldn't like it. The top guy after Cena should NOT be a Tweener, just because it's hard to pull off and it could get confusing. Maybe, if they would strip him of the title and elevate guys above him. He'd make a good tweener, but he's just too important right now.

 

[Mustang Sally]

Punk should be given full leverage to speak what he wants to speak and play the role of a tweener...If he wants to trash WWE...let him do it...if he wants to trash the fans...let him do it...Make him the baddest good guy in the WWE.

Well put. Whichever side he's seemingly operating on, his 'tweener status seems built in, doesn't it? Just because he tells the truth doesn't convince me he's a face; there always seems to be a maverick element injected into his persona that makes us wonder what he's going to do next..... which is what makes him so interesting.

Look at WWE management: they (kayfabe) don't see him as a good guy, do they? After all his criticism of them, they would be highly wary of him, no? Think back to Triple H's program against Punk last Fall. Did he regard Punk as a face? Of course not.

Yes, we can usually tell faces from heels based on their opposition; when Punk has a series against Daniel Bryan or Chris Jericho, there's no question we're supposed to see him as a face because those two guys are as bad as they come. Yet, even then, he doesn't portray someone fighting for truth and justice; he's out for himself.

On the other hand, look at the ongoing animosity between Punk and John Cena, the company's #1 face. If Punk is contrasted to him, how can Punk be a face? Of course, there are so many fans who can't stand Cena that we're given a choice as to how we will regard Punk. But if everyone loved Cena, the company couldn't have him involved with Punk at all, could they? The complexity involved in this is one of the great things Creative has accomplished, the fans who think they never come up with anything new will never be able to appreciate it.

As far as I'm concerned, Punk is already a 'tweener. It's a function of the character he portrays.

 

[Gentleman Ed Joseph]

Tweener is simply saying "He's someone who says and does bad things. And morally the audience aren't meant to like him. But the people like him anyway." Stonecold wasn't meant to be the Hero. But then the WWE, eventually, saw the $ signs and embraced it. "Ooooh isn't he a villain (But ain't he cool as well!!)".

In some ways Cena is an accidental tweener. But in the way "He's someone who we want you to like and who mostly says and does the right things. But large parts of the audience don't like him." In this case the WWE see the $ signs and put their fingers in their ears, ignore the audience and keep shouting "John Cena is a face, the kids love him and that's final!!"




Who needs character depth and evolution? We can just change the colour scheme of his t-shirt and hat!!

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Tweener is simply saying "He's someone who says and does bad things. And morally the audience aren't meant to like him. But the people like him anyway." Stonecold wasn't meant to be the Hero. But then the WWE, eventually, saw the $ signs and embraced it. "Ooooh isn't he a villain (But ain't he cool as well!!)".

In some ways Cena is an accidental tweener. But in the way "He's someone who we want you to like and who mostly says and does the right things. But large parts of the audience don't like him." In this case the WWE see the $ signs and put their fingers in their ears, ignore the audience and keep shouting "John Cena is a face, the kids love him and that's final!!"




Who needs character depth and evolution? We can just change the colour scheme of his t-shirt and hat!!

I don't see how Austin was a bad guy. He didn't cheat, he wrestled heels, he fought his boos, those are all babyface qualities.

As for Cena, WWE doesn't put their fingers in their ears. This is the kind of stupid shit that keeps me from posting on here for months.

Cena.....is BOTH a babyface and a heel. He's a babyface to one demographic and a heel to the other. ALL demographics bring signs, buy shirts, and chant at him during his matches. He's over with everyone. He's a clean cut good guy. Our generation thinks that's a bad guy. We like the anti-hero. We dress up like the Joker not like Batman. How hard is this to understand? Cena is a heel to some, a face to others. He's not a "tweener", he's him.


I hate the term tweener, it's ******ed. I was watching this interview with CM Punk from like 2004, he said he was going to have a match in like CZW. He asked "so are you a babyface or a heel?" the guy said "well I act like a heel, but I'm a babyface" but said "that's fuckin stupid". That's the mentality the IWC has. They have this obsession with guys who say ******** things "but are babyfaces.

If a guy cusses and flips the bird...that doesn't make him a bad guy, especially not in the attitude era. He fights his boss, shows heart, and fights heels. HE'S A BABYFACE


As for Cena "lacking character development" uh...did you not watch anything over the past year? Or did you just stick your fingers in your ear and say "I'M GOING TO BOO CENA AND HATE HIM NO MATTER WHAT BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT I'M SUPPOSED TO DO AND THAT'S FINAL"?

 

[Gentleman Ed Joseph]

I don't see how Austin was a bad guy. He didn't cheat, he wrestled heels, he fought his boos, those are all babyface qualities.

As for Cena, WWE doesn't put their fingers in their ears. This is the kind of stupid shit that keeps me from posting on here for months.

Cena.....is BOTH a babyface and a heel. He's a babyface to one demographic and a heel to the other. ALL demographics bring signs, buy shirts, and chant at him during his matches. He's over with everyone. He's a clean cut good guy. Our generation thinks that's a bad guy. We like the anti-hero. We dress up like the Joker not like Batman. How hard is this to understand? Cena is a heel to some, a face to others. He's not a "tweener", he's him.


I hate the term tweener, it's ******ed. I was watching this interview with CM Punk from like 2004, he said he was going to have a match in like CZW. He asked "so are you a babyface or a heel?" the guy said "well I act like a heel, but I'm a babyface" but said "that's fuckin stupid". That's the mentality the IWC has. They have this obsession with guys who say ******** things "but are babyfaces.

If a guy cusses and flips the bird...that doesn't make him a bad guy, especially not in the attitude era. He fights his boss, shows heart, and fights heels. HE'S A BABYFACE


As for Cena "lacking character development" uh...did you not watch anything over the past year? Or did you just stick your fingers in your ear and say "I'M GOING TO BOO CENA AND HATE HIM NO MATTER WHAT BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT I'M SUPPOSED TO DO AND THAT'S FINAL"?

I'm talking Stonecold before he was feuding with Mr McMahon, before the WWE Title and before the full onslaught of the Attitude era. Which all happened after the WWE changed their position on how Austin was presented. He was blatantly heel and doing everything he possibly could do to be heel. The people chose him and so the WWE eventually fell in behind him.

To be clear, I am not a John Cena hater. He works his arse off and is a massively important part of the WWE, now and in the future. But he is only presented as the 'good guy' and everything he does is as a face. With the WWE even spinning the split reaction to him as being a positive because he stirs such emotion in people. The most the WWE have done to address the situation is release Cena Sucks merchandise. All along the way the WWE pushes Cena's business value above any character evolution.

(Tweener wasn't my choice of term, it was what the original thread was leading on about CM Punk.)

Yes, I have watched everything over the last year, and have been a fan for over 20 years. There have been numerous times during the last year that there has been a chance to change the direction of Cena slightly. I am not advocating full blown evil Cena either. But everytime the reset button is pressed and it's back to the original Main Event Cena settings.

John Cena has been been a constant presence on WWE TV for the last 10 years. And at the top for around 7 of those. He has featured prominently on more WWE TV than probably just about any other talent in the history of the business.

You may say if it isn't broke don't fix it. But even the greatest things become stale eventually. And that's true of all the Icons in the business ever.

I'm here to talk about the WWE and the problems that they have creatively got themselves into. Because I love this stuff!! I'm not here to take personal attitude or to dress up as the Joker. (And if I were to dress up...out of the Joker and Batman...I'd be Batman).