Sherdog's Top 10 P4P

[Buffalo Dave]

1. Anderson Silva (26-4)
A month after the fact, the hysteria that surrounded Silva following his dubious domination of Demian Maia in Abu Dhabi has subsided. Attention has now turned to the next fight for the middleweight kingpin, as “The Spider” will risk his 185-pound mantle against outspoken Republican-stroke-fighter Chael Sonnen at UFC 117 on Aug. 7 in Oakland, Calif. With his recent string of victories over Dan Miller, Yushin Okami and Nate Marquardt, Sonnen has emerged as an accomplished, deserving challenger. However, the biggest factor in making the fight a blockbuster will center on Sonnen’s infamous trash talking and whether it can inspire Silva to fight from bell to bell.

2. Georges St. Pierre (20-2)
The story remains the same for St. Pierre. Coming off a dominant title performance against Dan Hardy in March, he has been positioned for a rematch with yet another elite welterweight in Josh Koscheck, courtesy of the former NCAA national wrestling champion’s May 8 win over Paul Daley. They met previously in August 2007, with St. Pierre winning a unanimous decision. Now, when they collide three-plus years later, it will be on the heels of the 12th season of “The Ultimate Fighter,” which figures to build the second GSP-Koscheck bout with an easy and obvious face-heel dynamic.

3. Fedor Emelianenko (31-1, 1 NC)
The good news: Emelianenko’s Strikeforce contract has, at least for now, been ameliorated, allowing “The Last Emperor” to meet Fabricio Werdum on June 26 when the promotion returns to San Jose, Calif. The bad news: many MMA observers have grown skeptical of Emelianenko’s run of opponents, and following Alistair Overeem’s May 15 destruction of Brett Rogers, Werdum appears far from the most appealing non-UFC heavyweight opponent for Emelianenko. A showdown with “The Demolition Man” has quickly become the premier fight for Emelianenko heading into the second half of 2010.

4. Jose Aldo (17-1)
Aldo entered his April 24 showdown with Urijah Faber as a favorite, but many expected “The California Kid” to offer the Brazilian dynamo a real test. Instead, Aldo crushed and demoralized Faber in front of his fans in Sacramento, Calif. For five lopsided rounds, Aldo smashed Faber with low kicks, hobbling him into helplessness inside the cage. With the victory, Aldo appears all but untouchable in the featherweight division, despite only two outstanding wins -- Mike Thomas Brown and Faber -- on his docket. With the perception of his dominance reinforced, Aldo figures to be a considerable favorite over likely next challenger Manny Gamburyan whenever they meet later this year.

5. Jon Fitch (22-3, 1 NC)
With a straightforward and prosaic fighting style, Fitch does not appear to be as close to another crack at the UFC welterweight title as he would like. However, the former Purdue University wrestling captain still sports a staggering 12-1 record in the UFC, having compiled it in one of MMA’s greatest divisions. Unfortunately, Fitch’s rematch with Thiago Alves has been canceled twice already, and the third iteration of the bout was hit with another delay. Zuffa officials pushed the date from UFC 115 on June 12 to UFC 117 on Aug. 7 to ensure Alves’ full health. Let us hope it happens this time. Holding the title of the undisputed second banana at 170 pounds remains a great MMA accomplishment.

6. Frankie Edgar (12-1)
At UFC 112 in Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates, Edgar scored one of the most significant wins of 2010, as he dethroned lightweight kingpin B.J. Penn and took the UFC 155-pound title. Though it was not exactly a popular decision, Edgar took all three judges’ scorecards on the back of his aggressive combination punching and stellar movement. However, the surprise champion will have to replicate his feat in order to earn unanimous consideration as the sport’s top lightweight, as he has signed on for an August rematch with Penn in Boston.

7. B.J. Penn (15-6-1)
From one controversy to another, Penn lost his UFC lightweight title and MMA’s 155-pound mantle on April 12 with his shocking upset to Frankie Edgar. While debate still rages over the bout’s outcome, Penn has started his book tour to promote his eye-opening biography. The book has drawn the particular ire of UFC President Dana White over its anecdotes on the Hawaiian’s past dealings with the company. Brouhahas notwithstanding, “The Prodigy” will get his chance for redemption and the opportunity to regain top status at 155 pounds in August, when he meets Edgar for a second time at UFC 118 in Boston.

8. Mauricio Rua (19-4)
With questions swirling about what would happen if his rematch with Lyoto Machida went to the judges, Rua made sure the script played out differently from their controversial first bout, as he clobbered “The Dragon” less than four minutes into their May 8 meeting. Rua’s current resume remains a far cry from where it was in 2005, when he tore through four top 10 opponents in half a year. However, with a forthcoming title eliminator between Quinton “Rampage” Jackson and Rashad Evans and the UFC’s strong grip on elite 205-pound talent, Rua will have the opportunity to carve out a brilliant hit list in a strong division -- the backbone of any pound-for-pound resume.

9. Jake Shields (25-4-1)
There was a time just a few short years ago when Shields was reviled for being one of MMA’s most loathsome fighters to watch. However, during the last five years, the Cesar Gracie protégé has transformed himself from a drab, peripheral contender to one of the sport’s elite fighters. With his dominant April 17 upset over Dan Henderson, the Strikeforce middleweight champion now boasts a 14-bout winning streak and top-five credentials in two separate divisions. The serious question surrounding Shields now centers on whether he will remain a Strikeforce commodity or choose a future in the Octagon against a deeper roster of competition.

10. Lyoto Machida (16-1)
The majority of the MMA world felt Mauricio “Shogun” Rua was the better man in his first meeting with Machida in October. In their May 8 rematch, Machida certainly looked like the lesser man. The Belem, Brazil, native was polished off in less than four minutes -- a far cry from the supposedly untouchable fighter who took the title from Rashad Evans just a year earlier. However, criticisms at this point seem too sharp. Lost in the post-fight absolutes was the fact that it was not that long ago when Machida blew away strong competition in a deep division, crushing both Evans and Thiago Silva in his 2009 campaign.

* With the entry of Mauricio Rua, previously 10th-ranked Thiago Alves falls outside the pound-for-pound top-10.

How do you feel about their list? I would start with moving the top 3 spots around like this,

1. Fedor - The guy is just a beast, having never really lost a fight due to submissions, decision, KO or TKO. His only lost came by a rule in the Rings promotion because it was a tournanment format so a NC couldn't be awarded. Other than that blemish he has been unstopable.

2. Anderson Silva - Theres not much to say why he deserves the spot, simply just dominates his opponents, and just keeps cleaning out his division.

3. Georges ST. Pierre - Same as Silva, except I rank Silva higher because he fights outside his division and is successful when he does.

I dont have no problems with 4 or 5 spots. But 6-10 I would change a bit as follows,

6. Jake Sheilds - A guy who hasn't lost in 5 years, a 14 fight win streak, 6 of those he finished in the 1st round. I really dont agree ranking him so low on the list.

7. Frankie Edgar - What else to say other than he knocked off the king of the light weights. Now we have to see if his win against Penn was a fluke or he is here to stay.

8. Mauricio Rua - The 1st guy to beat Machida, in my eyes twice. But he has been on a terror as of late even with the previous loss against Machida he still looked damn good and in most people's eyes got robbed in the first fight. But now that he is healthy is should only keep moving up in the rankings.

9. Lyoto Machida - I think he will be back in a few months and back to his normal form as long as he doesn't have to fight Shogun anytime soon.

10. B.J. Penn - Outside another controversial fight, his record in his past 9 fights is 5-4. Yes the losses came against welter weights besides the Edgar loss but they are still losses. We will see come UFC 118 if it was just a sinus infection and the anti-biotics that lost him the fight.

I would say there are some honorable mentions that are right outside that being Nick Diaz, Brock Lesnar, and Thiago Alves.

 

[Rizza]

How do you feel about their list? I would start with moving the top 3 spots around like this,

1. Fedor - The guy is just a beast, having never really lost a fight due to submissions, decision, KO or TKO. His only lost came by a rule in the Rings promotion because it was a tournanment format so a NC couldn't be awarded. Other than that blemish he has been unstopable.

2. Anderson Silva - Theres not much to say why he deserves the spot, simply just dominates his opponents, and just keeps cleaning out his division.

3. Georges ST. Pierre - Same as Silva, except I rank Silva higher because he fights outside his division and is successful when he does.

Agreed. I don't see how Fedor isn't number 1. He has finished every fighter he has faced since Final Conflict 05' and that was against a prime Cro Cop. Despite what haters say about his competition, but in his last three fights he has beat the hell of top 10 competition(at the time). His next fight is against another top ten in Werdrum. So that will be 4 top tens he has finished if history repeats its self, and with Fedor it usually does.

As for 4-10 mine would go something like this.

4-Jake Sheilds-The guy is on a 15 fight win streak. Dominates a division(MW) that isn't even his natural division. During the 15 fight win streak he has beat: Yushin Okami, Carlos Condit, Paul Daley, Robbie Lawler, Jason Miller, and most impressive of all Dan Henderson. Who he completely tooled on the ground for four rounds. 8 out of the 15 he has finished, over half of them.

5- BJ Penn- Yea, yea, I know he just lost to Edgar, but I actually scored BJ winning that fight. So that don't mean much to me. This guy deserves this spot though. I mean out of 11 fights in the UFC he has finished 10. Against top notch competition, and he has only gotten better in time. The guy has finished, Hughes, Sanchez, Florian, Gomi, Pulver(when he was still a good fight), Stevenson, Sherk and Din Thomas just to name a few. One questionable decision shouldn't no way, no how, put Edgar over Penn.

6- Jon "Smoke Break" Fitch- Not much do say about Jon, except he wins alot, and bores me almost as much as he wins. He deserves the spot though. If he could finish a fight, then he would be higher on list. No doubt about it.

7-Jose Aldo-He has just dominated every one they have but in front of him. His wins over MTB and Faber were huge wins for anybody man. That is really his only two significant victory's though. If he destroys Manny Gamburyan, then he will have a legit claim to be in the top 5 P4P. Until then he stays at 7 on my list.

8 -Shogun Rua-This is a odd one right here, he just bested the former # 4 or 5 P4P, and #1 LHW in Machida(I can't remember which for P4P), but his performances before that were less then stellar, he got choked by Griffen(who i love btw, hence the avatar,) but on paper he should have beat Forrest's ass. Then he had a heavy breathing contest with Coleman, and his Chuck performance wasn't that good,I mean it wasn't bad but not the Shogun we are used to seeing. Then he beats the Champ(In most peoples eyes) then gets the rematch and just destroys. His performances before Shogun-Machida 1 is why he so low on my list.

9-Nick Diaz- I know what your thinking. Nick Diaz? P4P? GTFO with that shit!

Hear me out though. Since after the Sherk fight, he has gone 10-1-1. With that one no contest coming from his amazing Gogo on Gomi, so really its like he has gone 11-1 since the Sherk fight. The only loss coming from that fucking slimeball KJ Noons. Which was stopped because of cuts. In this span he has finished, Neer, Gleison Tibau, Gomi(if you count it lol, I do) Frank Shamrock, Scott Smith and Zaromskis. Out of those 11 wins(counting Gomi) he has finished 9 other fighters. If that is P4P materiel I don't know what is.

10-Lyoto Machida- Only reason I have him this low on the P4P is because he was soundly beat twice, by a guy who was coming of not-so-spectacular performances. He is still a great fighter but, that KO loss, just really affected his position in the P4P. I kind of compare it to Urijah Fabers downfall. He was the king of the featherweights, seemingly unbeatable, high up on the P4P list, until the first MTB fight. The weird spinning elbow thing got him KO'd,and while everybody knew MTB won, some sorta considered it a lucky KO, and that Faber could of won. Sorta like the Rua-Machida fight. In the way that everybody knew that Rua pretty much won, but arguments could be made each way so there had to be a rematch. Then Faber lost the second fight by decision showing MTB was for real. Also Showing that MTB had his number. Then Faber dropped out of the P4P rankings. Same with Rua he had some skeptics after the first fight saying that Machida would get him this time, and he proved he had Machidas number by KO'ing him.

Oh yea and no Frank Edgar either, I think if all of these dudes were the same height and weight, and just skill is what mattered, he would get beat by them all.

 

[Via Armbar]

I hate Sherdog's P4P lists honestly. Their ranked ones aren't so bad, but this one is just absurd. How was Machida ranked at four before his fight with Shogun and fall all the way down to ten? Not only that but why is Shogun only at 8? Shouldn't he have taken Lyoto's place? There whole list is stupid to me honestly. Neither Edgar nor Penn have fought since 112 and both of their placements have moved since then. They have apparently moved up somehow. I understand that these lists are for fun and there is no legitimate way to put together one of these lists, but there should at least be some sort of thought process involved.

 

[jmt225]

I'm perhaps the biggest Anderson Silva fan here at WZ, but even I think it's bullshit he is #1 on the P4P list. After his last fight with Damien Maia, there's absolutely no justification anyone could make as to why Silva deserves that spot over Georges St-Pierre.

The fact of the matter is, not only is GSP on a 7 fight win streak, but he's actually DOMINATED the TOP contenders in his weight class in all of those fights. Here are some of the names Anderson Silva has beaten in his last 7 fights:

James Irvin
Patrick Côté
Thales Leites
Demian Maia

Now, no disrespect towards any of those fighters, but they're not top caliber opponents. And the sadder part is that Silva wasn't able to truly finish three of those names. I know GSP has a problem finishing fight, but he still completely dominates them for 5 straight rounds. You cannot say the same for Anderson Silva.

All that said, yes.. I would still put Anderson Silva #2.

Other changes I would make, I would actually move Jake Shields all the way up to #3 and drop Fedor down to #4. Shields' complete domination over Dan Henderson is all the proof you need to know that Shields is a top 3 P4Per right now. And Fedor, well... Fedor's last few wins aren't looking like much, especially after what happened to Brett Rogers last Saturday.

Only other real change I would make is kick Machida's ass off the list, and put Nick Diaz on there. I've gone over many times here why Nick Diaz is a top 10 P4per in the World, so there's no point in me going over it again.

 

[JohnnyDrama]

i agree with there list the only name i would move is GSP at #1 and Silva at #2. I'd drop fedor to #4 because he isnt fighting the worlds best anymore, if this was years ago while he was fighting in pride then yeah maybe #2 but now but now he is only fighting 2nd rate fighters. IMO he will never be #1 P4P best unless he makes the move to the UFC. is he #1 Heavyweight? YES. i know he has nothing to prove anymore, but he should just retire already or make the move the UFC.

 

[Via Armbar]

i agree with there list the only name i would move is GSP at #1 and Silva at #2. I'd drop fedor to #4 because he isnt fighting the worlds best anymore, if this was years ago while he was fighting in pride then yeah maybe #2 but now but now he is only fighting 2nd rate fighters. IMO he will never be #1 P4P best unless he makes the move to the UFC. is he #1 Heavyweight? YES. i know he has nothing to prove anymore, but he should just retire already or make the move the UFC.

Okay I'm going to go ahead and squash this bullshit right here. Not because Fedor is my favorite fighter but because it's idiotic logic. He isn't beating the best in the world? Almost every one of his fights since he won the Pride GP has been against top ranked opponents. I swear, the memory of mma fans is terrible. People love to disregard guys like Coleman and Hunt but both were legitimate top ten fighters at the time. Even Tim Sylvia was still considered to be one of the top ten fighters at heavyweight at the time.

Yet people are quick to put GSP or Silva ahead of Fedor. Not to discredit either man, but are you going to tell me that Dan Hardy and Demian Maia are top five in their division? Many people outside of Sherdog consider Hardy to be in the bottom of the top ten at WW. Same could be said for Maia. Hardy's biggest name is Swick and Maia's biggest name is either Chael Sonnen or Nate Quarry. Right...and these two men are way more credible than anyone Fedor fights right?

Penn wasn't ranked as a WW when GSP fought him. Koscheck may have been barely cracking the top ten when he first fought Rush. He has a wins against two top fighters in Alves and Fitch absolutely, but what about Serra before that though? Or a decaying Matt Hughes?

Since 2005 every fighter Fedor has fought has been top ten heavyweights outside of Choi and Zulu. That isn't even an opinion. They have all been ranked by multiple publications as such. Neither GSP nor Silva can say the same. If you simply don't believe that he couldn't beat Silva or GSP, there is nothing wrong with that. Speculation is half of the fun. Just make sure you aren't talking nonsense.

 

[Dave]

Okay I'm going to go ahead and squash this bullshit right here. Not because Fedor is my favorite fighter but because it's idiotic logic. He isn't beating the best in the world? Almost every one of his fights since he won the Pride GP has been against top ranked opponents. I swear, the memory of mma fans is terrible. People love to disregard guys like Coleman and Hunt but both were legitimate top ten fighters at the time. Even Tim Sylvia was still considered to be one of the top ten fighters at heavyweight at the time.

Yet people are quick to put GSP or Silva ahead of Fedor. Not to discredit either man, but are you going to tell me that Dan Hardy and Demian Maia are top five in their division? Many people outside of Sherdog consider Hardy to be in the bottom of the top ten at WW. Same could be said for Maia. Hardy's biggest name is Swick and Maia's biggest name is either Chael Sonnen or Nate Quarry. Right...and these two men are way more credible than anyone Fedor fights right?

Penn wasn't ranked as a WW when GSP fought him. Koscheck may have been barely cracking the top ten when he first fought Rush. He has a wins against two top fighters in Alves and Fitch absolutely, but what about Serra before that though? Or a decaying Matt Hughes?

Since 2005 every fighter Fedor has fought has been top ten heavyweights outside of Choi and Zulu. That isn't even an opinion. They have all been ranked by multiple publications as such. Neither GSP nor Silva can say the same. If you simply don't believe that he couldn't beat Silva or GSP, there is nothing wrong with that. Speculation is half of the fun. Just make sure you aren't talking nonsense.

I'd like to qualify this post before anyone reads on. I am not the biggest MMA fan in the world, nor am I the most knowledgeable but I do know a little bit for me to post in this thread. However, if anyone takes issue with it, please let me know what I am missing.

---------------​

Now, for me, the best pound for pound fighter in the world right now is probably GSP. After GSP, I would have Shogun, Silva and BJ Penn. I am not even going to try and rank them because I think it is absolutely futile because everyone has different criteria that should be met to rank someone above another and I don't buy into it. I especially don't like it when it goes across weight classes because we are never likely to find out if, say, Shogun is a better fighter than BJ Penn.

That being said, I don't think Fedor should be ranked number one. His last fight against Rodgers was very telling. I thought that he was second best in the fight for sustained periods and then pulled out the win in fantastic fashion. I saw people defend him saying that he was better in terms of cardio and that is why he won. That is probably true but I was just very underwhelmed by him in that fight and Werdum is not the draw that Fedor deserves. I would love to see him go to the UFC and play with Lesnar. That is the fight that people want to see and until that happens, no one is going to believe that he is not dodging him and the UFC.

Rodgers, being 10-0 at the time, looked like a good fight for Fedor and was for a long time. However, he beat him, nay, finished him well and should go onto better things. Werdum should at least be a bigger challenge for Fedor but not one that I can't see him overcoming. After that fight though, should he win it, I would love to see him move to the UFC and really make a statement to people like myself that doubt his credentials. A fight against the winner of Lesnar/Carwin would be a dream and should realistically happen.

As for the rankings, I know that they are absolute bullshit and make literally no sense whatsoever. Points have been raised to show that they mean nothing and that is why I call it futile to try. Personally though, I think GSP is probably the best fighter in the world and I am very much looking forward to him squaring off against Koscheck after The Ultimate Fighter and showing us all why.

 

[Fizzy]

I agree with the top 4, with the exception of maybe moving GSP above Silva. GSP has been much more dominate than Silva in his last couple of fights. I mostly disagree with Fitch at 5. Honestly he has been pretty dominate since losing to GSP, but there is no way he should be so high up. Shields should take that spot easily. Why is Shields ranked so low in the first place? He was the MAJOR underdog in the Hendo fight, and he still came out and won. He has a 14 fight winning streak. He should be #5 maybe even #4. I say put Fitch at 10, move Shogun up to #6 keep BJ at #7 move Edgar to #8 and put Lyoto at #9. Even though BJ lost to Edgar I do not believe Edgar is the better fighter. BJ has dominated that devision for a while, and Edgar barely beat BJ. If Edgar can beat him again, than put him higher than BJ.

 

[jmt225]

The thing is Armbar, it doesn't matter if Fedor's opponents were on some silly top 10 list, they were still shit.

The fact of the matter is, Fedor hasn't had a top quality opponent since Cro Cop in 2005. Let's go over all his fights since then, so I can prove this.

Zuluzinho - He was undefeated, sure, but who exactly did he beat? That's right, no one. And since his fight with Fedor he has 4-5 win-loss record.

Mark Coleman - He might have been on someone's top ten list, but what exactly did he do to get on there? Before fighting Fedor, he beat a can on a show nobody saw, and then got a FLUKE win over Shogun. How the fuck did he deserve a shot at Fedor? He didn't. And since then, Coleman's 1-3.

Mark Hunt - So this guy loses to Josh Barnett, and then fights Fedor? Not to mention he hasn't won a single fight since his fight with Fedor, so this is yet another very unimpressive victory.

Matt Lindland - Good fighter, but he's a fucking Middleweight. Him being an opponent for Fedor was a complete joke.

Hong-Man Choi - Freak show. You already admitted.

Tim Sylvia - This guy might have been on a couple of shitty top ten list, but what the fuck did he do to get on any of them? He won boring, shitty fights against shitty opponents, and lost against real competition like Couture and Big Nog. At the time the fight happened, yes... it was impressive that Fedor beat him so quickly, but Sylvia would go on to loss a fight after that even quicker to a guy with an 0-1 MMA record. Sylvia is shit and a win over him isn't anything to be impressed with.

Andrei Arlovski - He was I believe ranked the #3 Heavyweight in the World at this time, but you and I both know that was complete bullshit. After losing two straight fights to Sylvia, he won 5 straight fights, with Werdum being literally the only really good fighter. The rest were mediocre at best. And once again, I have to bring up what Arlovski did after the fight, which was lose in 20 seconds to Brett Rogers, and get his ass handed to him by Bigfoot. Not an impressive win for Fedor.

Brett Rogers - Undefeated against true cans, with the exception of Arlovski. And it's like I mentioned earlier, the fact that Overeem was able to beat this guy better than Fedor was able to hurts Fedor's case.

Fedor's last eight opponents, while you can throw the "list" shit at me, were all unimpressive. That's an indisputable fact, man. Josh Barnett would have been his toughest opponent no doubt, but since it never happened, then we can't count it. And Overeem is literally the only Heavyweight now not in the UFC that Fedor can fight and people will care about. If he doesn't fight Overeem by the end of the year, then you cannot claim he fights the best opponents possible.

And what makes it even worse is that Fedor's next opponent is Fabricio Werdum, which will be yet another unimpressive victory for him. Werdum got knocked out against dos Santos in under 2 minutes, then beat a can, and then barely beat Bigfoot. These are the type of guys Fedor is fighting, man. It's really, really disappointing, which is why he doesn't crack the top 3 in my P4P list, even though I do LOVE the guy.

 

[JohnnyDrama]

Okay I'm going to go ahead and squash this bullshit right here. Not because Fedor is my favorite fighter but because it's idiotic logic. He isn't beating the best in the world? Almost every one of his fights since he won the Pride GP has been against top ranked opponents. I swear, the memory of mma fans is terrible. People love to disregard guys like Coleman and Hunt but both were legitimate top ten fighters at the time. Even Tim Sylvia was still considered to be one of the top ten fighters at heavyweight at the time.

Yet people are quick to put GSP or Silva ahead of Fedor. Not to discredit either man, but are you going to tell me that Dan Hardy and Demian Maia are top five in their division? Many people outside of Sherdog consider Hardy to be in the bottom of the top ten at WW. Same could be said for Maia. Hardy's biggest name is Swick and Maia's biggest name is either Chael Sonnen or Nate Quarry. Right...and these two men are way more credible than anyone Fedor fights right?

Penn wasn't ranked as a WW when GSP fought him. Koscheck may have been barely cracking the top ten when he first fought Rush. He has a wins against two top fighters in Alves and Fitch absolutely, but what about Serra before that though? Or a decaying Matt Hughes?

Since 2005 every fighter Fedor has fought has been top ten heavyweights outside of Choi and Zulu. That isn't even an opinion. They have all been ranked by multiple publications as such. Neither GSP nor Silva can say the same. If you simply don't believe that he couldn't beat Silva or GSP, there is nothing wrong with that. Speculation is half of the fun. Just make sure you aren't talking nonsense.

as i said GSP & Silva are better than fedor IMO. i think fedor is overrated. i stand behind what i said. Just like someone said look at what rogers did to fedor, a fighter with no strong wrestling background took fedor down, not only took him down but got a strong position on him for a bit. IMO fedor won that fight out of luck, survived some brutal Ground n Pound and hit a lucky shot. Does that take anything away from what he's done in the past? no, it doesnt. The fact is GSP's opponents fought their way to the title shot, some impressive wins and what happened? when it came time for the fight GSP dominated them in every aspect.

same with Anderson silva, the guy is a beast, every opponent he fought he dominated him excluding 90 97 112.

what im saying is i cant put him higher than #4 i can not put him at #1 if he were to fight overeem and win, then maybe #3 or #2 but the majority of the best heavyweights in the world are in the UFC. that's why i want him to go there so fans who have not heard of him can see if he is the real deal or not.

as to the list..........i forgot about shields, i would put him higher at #5

 

[Via Armbar]

as i said GSP & Silva are better than fedor IMO. i think fedor is overrated. i stand behind what i said. Just like someone said look at what rogers did to fedor, a fighter with no strong wrestling background took fedor down, not only took him down but got a strong position on him for a bit. IMO fedor won that fight out of luck, survived some brutal Ground n Pound and hit a lucky shot. Does that take anything away from what he's done in the past? no, it doesnt. The fact is GSP's opponents fought their way to the title shot, some impressive wins and what happened? when it came time for the fight GSP dominated them in every aspect.

LOL

Yes that sniper shot he landed on Rogers was a lucky shot. Never will you see a man land a ''lucky shot'' like that with that amount of precision. You're clearly in the group that believe Fedor was in any kind of trouble in that fight. I have seen the fight over and over again and fail to see this brutal ground and pound you speak of. Rogers was in his guard. Not sure how deep your well of mma knowledge runs but that isn't a dangerous position, especially when you have won countless fights from manipulating your guard.

The reason GSP dominated Hardy is because Dan isn't in the same league. Rogers was ranked 6th at the time of his fight with Fedor and some publications ranked Hardy at 7th or lower. How is Fedor's competition any less than GSP's? Silva was set to face Belfort who was ranked 7th but fought Maia who was ranked 6th. Still, failing to see how that competition is better.

same with Anderson silva, the guy is a beast, every opponent he fought he dominated him excluding 90 97 112.

Oh, you mean the guy who was quickly disposed of by Marquardt in less than a minute? Or was it the lower half of the top ten ranked Griffin? Or the 8th ranked Leites? He dominated them because, as was with GSP and his opponents, they aren't near his levels. Nothig but respect to GSP and Silva, they both absolutely are on this list. But to use Fedor's ''lack of top competition'' as a reason to list him after them is ridiculous when they haven't been fighting better.

what im saying is i cant put him higher than #4 i can not put him at #1 if he were to fight overeem and win, then maybe #3 or #2 but the majority of the best heavyweights in the world are in the UFC. that's why i want him to go there so fans who have not heard of him can see if he is the real deal or not.

as to the list..........i forgot about shields, i would put him higher at #5

The real deal? Are you serious? The man that many fighters believe to be the greatest mixed martial artist of all time isn't the real deal? The man that beat Nog and Crocop in their primes isn't the real deal? Think about what you just said.

I agree that the UFC has a bigger share of the best heavyweights in the world. That doesn't mean that they have THE best in the world.

 

[JohnnyDrama]

The reason GSP dominated Hardy is because Dan isn't in the same league. Rogers was ranked 6th at the time of his fight with Fedor and some publications ranked Hardy at 7th or lower. How is Fedor's competition any less than GSP's?

well same can be said about rogers he isnt in fedors league. And you question my knowledge in mma because im not gonna hop on fedors nuts? LOL really, i have my own opinion i think he is overrated & doesnt deserve to be anywhere near the #1 or #2 spot. and you didnt see him in danger from roger's ground n pound? really? fedor's nuts must have been in the way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIvklEue8aw&feature=related

like i said he somehow survived that.

and back to GSP dominated hardy yes thats true hardy isnt in GSP's league but thats the reason IMO he is #1 P4P fighter in the world. like i said before guys that fight for the championship are guys that have fought their way to the top and the #1 contenders shot. you go by the list's, why? whats the point in that? IMO they fight their way to a title shot then they deserve it.

another reason i dont like fedor is because of his management. he was supposed to fight at the last strikeforce event (Nashville) but he pulled out wanted more money....really? what a douche...if he wanted money so bad he could have took the UFC's offer but IMO he would have gotten his ass handed to them by a couple of the heavyweights there or not, really anything can happen in mma but im not gonna ride his nuts and say he'll defeat every heavyweight in the UFC

and no im not hating on fedor not really im simply stating the facts in my opinion of course. so in the end IMO Fedor is overrated.

 

[Minor League Brian]

You do realize you're entire argument had to be thrown out the door when you made the completely idiotic statement of "Facts in my opinion". If they're facts, they're undisputable. If they're your opinion; that is another matter entirely.

My top list is...

1. GSP
2. Fedor.
3. Silva

And then it just gets muddled from there. GSP is absolutely the number 1 in my eyes right now because everyone he fights, he just dominates. I mean, there's no if ands or buts; its pure domination. I've watched Silva fight and in my opinion he's really streaky. There are times where people will hang with him, probably because Silva gets lazy, but then the next he's doing what he did to Griffin. If he would stay focused, and wasn't sucha jackass, he'd have a shot at being number 1 even with my hate for him. Fedor's kind of in the same boat. He hasn't exactly dominated anyone lately, but the man is still inhuman. When Rogers was raining down like that, I thought it was done. Course, you missed right after that when he eventually stood up and was completely fine. This is a guy who I've only seen rocked ONCE in all of his fights. His chin is straight up adamantium. If he'd actually fight some real "talent", I might be able to say he's the best over-all.

After those 3, it changes after each card. Machida would have been there, but then Shogun beat him and Shoguns been beat by Griffin, who Rashad tore up who was then tore up by Machida. As I said, it changes depending on the card.

 

[Via Armbar]

well same can be said about rogers he isnt in fedors league. And you question my knowledge in mma because im not gonna hop on fedors nuts? LOL really, i have my own opinion i think he is overrated & doesnt deserve to be anywhere near the #1 or #2 spot. and you didnt see him in danger from roger's ground n pound? really? fedor's nuts must have been in the way.

Somebody has been spending too much time on Sherdog. In what way is he overrated? This isn't wrestling where somebody can get more credit than they deserve. He has beaten some of the best fighters in the world continuesly.

like i said he somehow survived that.

He survived because he was better. He wasn't in any danger. It's not like he has never been in guard before. Fedor is notoriously good in any position whether it's to the advantage or not. Rogers hasn't shown any sort of ground game or wrestling skills. It's hard to believe that one of the best ground fighters in the world was put in harms way by Rogers.

and back to GSP dominated hardy yes thats true hardy isnt in GSP's league but thats the reason IMO he is #1 P4P fighter in the world. like i said before guys that fight for the championship are guys that have fought their way to the top and the #1 contenders shot. you go by the list's, why? whats the point in that? IMO they fight their way to a title shot then they deserve it.

So you're saying that Fedor isn't number one because he doesn't fight the best, but GSP is because he fights the same ranked fighters that Fedor does? Rogers was ranked 6th when he fought Fedor and Hardy was ranked 7th and 8th when he fought GSP. How did Hardy fight his way to a title shot? He beat Swick who ranked 6th. I go by the lists because a P4P list is pure speculation. The only thing you have to go by is who has beat who. You also use these lists because you say Fedor's competition isn't top level.

another reason i dont like fedor is because of his management. he was supposed to fight at the last strikeforce event (Nashville) but he pulled out wanted more money....really? what a douche...if he wanted money so bad he could have took the UFC's offer but IMO he would have gotten his ass handed to them by a couple of the heavyweights there or not, really anything can happen in mma but im not gonna ride his nuts and say he'll defeat every heavyweight in the UFC

So you don't like Fedor. Good enough. Next time say that instead of using bullshit excuses. Fedor never has pulled out of a fight due to money. I cannot understand how his management makes a difference in how good of a fighter he is. He could ditch M-1 and fight for Dana tomorrow and his skills would be the same. Yes, his management sucks purely for the reason that we don't get to see a lot of the fights we want. How does that affect how good is or isn't? Seriously, you are the equivelant to a John Cena hater. He's the top guy so everyone has to be the cool in class and pretend they're ahead of the curve.

and no im not hating on fedor not really im simply stating the facts in my opinion of course. so in the end IMO Fedor is overrated.

No you are. Which is cool, it doesn't bother me that people dislike him or whatever. It is hilarious that you say that you're ''stating that facts in your opinion''. If they're your opinions they aren't facts.

 

[JohnnyDrama]

Somebody has been spending too much time on Sherdog. In what way is he overrated? This isn't wrestling where somebody can get more credit than they deserve. He has beaten some of the best fighters in the world continuesly.



He survived because he was better. He wasn't in any danger. It's not like he has never been in guard before. Fedor is notoriously good in any position whether it's to the advantage or not. Rogers hasn't shown any sort of ground game or wrestling skills. It's hard to believe that one of the best ground fighters in the world was put in harms way by Rogers.



So you're saying that Fedor isn't number one because he doesn't fight the best, but GSP is because he fights the same ranked fighters that Fedor does? Rogers was ranked 6th when he fought Fedor and Hardy was ranked 7th and 8th when he fought GSP. How did Hardy fight his way to a title shot? He beat Swick who ranked 6th. I go by the lists because a P4P list is pure speculation. The only thing you have to go by is who has beat who. You also use these lists because you say Fedor's competition isn't top level.



So you don't like Fedor. Good enough. Next time say that instead of using bullshit excuses. Fedor never has pulled out of a fight due to money. I cannot understand how his management makes a difference in how good of a fighter he is. He could ditch M-1 and fight for Dana tomorrow and his skills would be the same. Yes, his management sucks purely for the reason that we don't get to see a lot of the fights we want. How does that affect how good is or isn't? Seriously, you are the equivelant to a John Cena hater. He's the top guy so everyone has to be the cool in class and pretend they're ahead of the curve.



No you are. Which is cool, it doesn't bother me that people dislike him or whatever. It is hilarious that you say that you're ''stating that facts in your opinion''. If they're your opinions they aren't facts.

haha actually no i hardly ever go on sherdog...ever you keep bringing out who was ranked where so tell me who's the one that spends their time on sherdog? lol and yes, IMO he was in trouble for a little bit. i still dont care what rogers was ranked at where who ever was ranked at. like i said who ever fights their way to a title shot deserves it. obviously not everyone in that division isnt going to be healthy

and you compare me to a john cena hater? LMAO wow really? he fights in a 2nd rate organization against 2nd rate heavyweights really nothing to be impressed about. like i said if it were in his pride days then yeah maybe #1 or 2 him beating who ever in strikeforce or where ever else is like kobe bryant beating a 4 year old kid at 1 on 1, again nothing to be impressed about. if he wants to prove to everyone that he is P4P #1 fighter then go to UFC.

this is what really sums it up about fedor over the past couple fo years

Then there's the question of how long will Fedor's fighting prime last? He coasted through his last couple of years in PRIDE fighting freak show fights like Zuluzinho and Hong Man Choi, a past his prime Mark Coleman, and an undersized Matt Lindland. In 2008 and 2009 he was unusually productive, fighting and dispatching two former UFC champs in Tim Sylvia and Andrei Arlovski and a fast-rising Brett Rogers. Now it appears as if he's going to be slowing his pace of fighting again.

i still think he is overrated everyone is entitled to their opinion so i dont give a fuck you your going ot keep crying because i wont ride fedor's nut's really get over it.

 

[Via Armbar]

haha actually no i hardly ever go on sherdog...ever you keep bringing out who was ranked where so tell me who's the one that spends their time on sherdog? lol and yes, IMO he was in trouble for a little bit. i still dont care what rogers was ranked at where who ever was ranked at. like i said who ever fights their way to a title shot deserves it. obviously not everyone in that division isnt going to be healthy

Sherdog isn't the only mma publication with rankings. You do know that right? I was using an average, not only sherdog. You say you don't care what his opponents are ranked at yet you clearly do because your judging his ''lack of competition'' on these guys. Not that it has anything to do with Fedor, but what do you consider ''fighting their way to a title shot''? The men I listed were given title shots without beating a top 5 fighter in their class. So you think that if a fighter garners a couple of wins, even if they aren't top fighters, should be entitled to a title shot? I'm just trying to get a graso on your thinking.

and you compare me to a john cena hater? LMAO wow really? he fights in a 2nd rate organization against 2nd rate heavyweights really nothing to be impressed about. like i said if it were in his pride days then yeah maybe #1 or 2 him beating who ever in strikeforce or where ever else is like kobe bryant beating a 4 year old kid at 1 on 1, again nothing to be impressed about. if he wants to prove to everyone that he is P4P #1 fighter then go to UFC.

So because Lesnar is the UFC HW champ than he should be on the top P4P list correct? Because any heavyweights outside of the UFC are second rate. Meaning UFC has no second rate fighters and only the best. Since Lesnar is the champ out of the best, shouldn't he be in Fedor's place on the P4P chain? We all know Lesnar isn't up there, but by using your logic he should be. I would be willing to put a ton of money on Fedor against anybody in the UFC. The only guys I see being a challenge is Lesnar, JDS, Cain and maybe Carwin. I'd be pretty positive about him beating Cain and JDS.

i still think he is overrated everyone is entitled to their opinion so i dont give a fuck you your going ot keep crying because i wont ride fedor's nut's really get over it.

Nobodies crying because you don't like Fedor. You reasonings that he is fighting shit competition is stupid.

 

[JohnnyDrama]

Sherdog isn't the only mma publication with rankings. You do know that right? I was using an average, not only sherdog. You say you don't care what his opponents are ranked at yet you clearly do because your judging his ''lack of competition'' on these guys. Not that it has anything to do with Fedor, but what do you consider ''fighting their way to a title shot''? The men I listed were given title shots without beating a top 5 fighter in their class. So you think that if a fighter garners a couple of wins, even if they aren't top fighters, should be entitled to a title shot? I'm just trying to get a graso on your thinking.



So because Lesnar is the UFC HW champ than he should be on the top P4P list correct? Because any heavyweights outside of the UFC are second rate. Meaning UFC has no second rate fighters and only the best. Since Lesnar is the champ out of the best, shouldn't he be in Fedor's place on the P4P chain? We all know Lesnar isn't up there, but by using your logic he should be. I would be willing to put a ton of money on Fedor against anybody in the UFC. The only guys I see being a challenge is Lesnar, JDS, Cain and maybe Carwin. I'd be pretty positive about him beating Cain and JDS.



Nobodies crying because you don't like Fedor. You reasonings that he is fighting shit competition is stupid.

yeah i dont use those websites, i hardly ever pay attention to MMA P4P rankings, i may check it once in a while but no i barley use those sites unlike you. you keep bringing up who's ranked where, who cares. like i said they fought their way to the title shot, i dont know why you're not understanding that, obviously they dont have to beat "top 5 in the weight class fighter, if they go out win fights in a dominate fashion then they deserve a title shot.
and obviously this started because you dont like the fact i wont ride fedor. like i said he isnt fighting top notch heavyweights, and i have no idea where you think that i want lesnar in the top 10, you said "going by your logic"? be real at least, he hasnt fought in about a year, if any heavyweight that would be put on this list over fedor i would put carwin or cain, both of these two have just beat two great heavyweights in a dominate fashion and have fought some good fighters last year. fedor is overrated

 

[Via Armbar]

yeah i dont use those websites, i hardly ever pay attention to MMA P4P rankings, i may check it once in a while but no i barley use those sites unlike you. you keep bringing up who's ranked where, who cares. like i said they fought their way to the title shot, i dont know why you're not understanding that, obviously they dont have to beat "top 5 in the weight class fighter, if they go out win fights in a dominate fashion then they deserve a title shot.
and obviously this started because you dont like the fact i wont ride fedor. like i said he isnt fighting top notch heavyweights, and i have no idea where you think that i want lesnar in the top 10, you said "going by your logic"? be real at least, he hasnt fought in about a year, if any heavyweight that would be put on this list over fedor i would put carwin or cain, both of these two have just beat two great heavyweights in a dominate fashion and have fought some good fighters last year. fedor is overrated

Yeah i'm definitely done arguing this as I should have been about 3 posts ago. Everything I have said has clearly gone above your head. You think that winning fights with cool knockouts or crazy submissions will earn you a title shot no matter who you beat. Thank fucking god that you aren't booking for the UFC or Houston Alexander would have had a title shot right away and so would Hazelete. That makes no fucking sense.

You said that UFC has the best heavyweights. Lesnar is on top of the heavyweight chain right now. Therefor, using your train of thought, Lesnar would be the highest ranked heavyweight on the P4P list. Clearly he isn't so your statements are shit. We are done here, you don't need to feel obliged to respond to this because I won't respond to you.

 

[JohnnyDrama]

Yeah i'm definitely done arguing this as I should have been about 3 posts ago. Everything I have said has clearly gone above your head. You think that winning fights with cool knockouts or crazy submissions will earn you a title shot no matter who you beat. Thank fucking god that you aren't booking for the UFC or Houston Alexander would have had a title shot right away and so would Hazelete. That makes no fucking sense.

You said that UFC has the best heavyweights. Lesnar is on top of the heavyweight chain right now. Therefor, using your train of thought, Lesnar would be the highest ranked heavyweight on the P4P list. Clearly he isn't so your statements are shit. We are done here, you don't need to feel obliged to respond to this because I won't respond to you.

LMAO ok cool you're done im not, you twists my words around and make it like im not a fan of mma, well i can do the same, if i go by your logic the list needs some more washed up fighters hmm lets see fedor at #1 dan severn at #2 royce gracie #3; your list looks ******ed.

no where did i say or imply that they need to win by KO or submissions, i said go out and win in dominate fashion it could be by KO or sub or it could be by decision, they go out and defeat some of the top contenders in dominate fashion then they can get a title shot. but yeah everything i said went right over your head because i dont think fedor is the best keep crying get over it.

but it doesnt seem like you anything about mma you're just one of those "blood fans" who only like the KO's and the blood so really your opinion is shit

fedor is overrated

 

[Via Armbar]

LMAO ok cool you're done im not, you twists my words around and make it like im not a fan of mma, well i can do the same, if i go by your logic the list needs some more washed up fighters hmm lets see fedor at #1 dan severn at #2 royce gracie #3; your list looks ******ed.

So you bitch about me twisting your words, yet here you are telling me that I have a P4P list that I have never come up with. Stop being an idiot. You still haven't adressed the fact that Fedor has been beating top ten fighters since 2005. Seriously, which other fighter in the top ten can say that? Not GSP, not Silva. I'm hoping that you are 13 years old because any older and there is a more serious problem here. You don't seem to understand what I'm telling you. YOU ARE SAYING THAT FEDOR DOESN'T FIGHT TOP COMPETITION. YET HE IS THE ONLY FIGHTER IN THE TOP TEN THAT HAS BEEN FIGHTING OTHER TOP TEN COMPETITION FOR HALF A DECADE. Hope that was clear.

no where did i say or imply that they need to win by KO or submissions, i said go out and win in dominate fashion it could be by KO or sub or it could be by decision, they go out and defeat some of the top contenders in dominate fashion then they can get a title shot. but yeah everything i said went right over your head because i dont think fedor is the best keep crying get over it.

So you can earn a title shot by beating a shit ton of cans? So 20 wins in a row over D level fighters is better than 2 or 3 wins over top ten fighters? Of course you would think like this. You rank Silva above Fedor. Silva's biggest win was over a way past his prime Jeremy Horn before he entered the UFC. Why is it okay for GSP and Silva to fight the same level fighters as Fedor but apparently Fedor's competition isn't as tough? Stop being a fucking hypocrite.

but it doesnt seem like you anything about mma you're just one of those "blood fans" who only like the KO's and the blood so really your opinion is shit

fedor is overrated

lol

 

[JohnnyDrama]

well so much for not replying, LOL

Really fedor beating top 10 fighters? wow............really lets look at some of his fights.

Brett Rogers
Andrei Arlovski
Tim Sylvia
Matt Lindland
Hong-Man Choi
Mark Hunt
Mark Coleman

and lets look at GSP's

Dan Hardy
Thiago Alves
B.J. Penn
Jon Fitch
Matt Serra Won Undisputed UFC Welterweight Championship
Matt Hughes Won Interim Title
Josh Koscheck
Matt Serra Loss
Matt Hughes
B.J. Penn

and silva

Demian Maia
Forrest Griffin
Thales Leites
Patrick Côté
James Irvin
Dan Henderson
Rich Franklin
Nate Marquardt
Travis Lutter
Rich Franklin
Chris Leben

in case you're not catching onto this i put up fights starting from about 2006 now look at these lists, GSP has beat some top fights over the past 4 years, same goes for silva, but you're honestly saying that neither of these two have fought the level of competition that fedor has fought..REALLY are you really that much into fedor to actually say that? i mean wow.....ok fedor has fought some decent fighters...decent to say the least. while silva and GSP have fought top notch fighters.

and i know what you're gonna do, go check every mma site look at the rankings come back here crying "blah blah blah so and so was ranked at 7" really....save the time i dont care where they are ranked, who cares. like i said they win fights, they win in a dominate fashion, they win a certain number of fights, then they deserve a title shot, i still dont know how this is going over your head each time this is like the 15th time i said this. its talking to a ******ed kid honestly

if you're not understanding this here it is again, read slow, sound out each word.

they win fights, they win in a dominate fashion, they win a certain number of fights, then they deserve a title shot

now lets look at this, look at deigo sanchez when he won TUF 1 dropped to welterweight, he went on a roll for a while lost 2 fights in a row to kosheck and fitch. had a couple more fight won them, i thought he would get a title shot, dropped to lightweight beat some top lightweights got worked by bj and now he is moving back up, now of course, (keep up) he would have to win some fights, win them, beat some top contenders, then maybe he can get a shot at welterweight. i hope that wasnt too much for you

sure fedor may have beat 2-3 top fighters but most arent top fighters, 2 that stick out he beat a over the hill mark coleman, really nothing to be impressed over, beat a smaller Matt Lindland, again nothing impressive.


fedor is overrated