Sheamus needs to win clean!

[Ruthless-RKO]

I like this dude, loved him since the day he defeated Cena for the WWE title late last year, but when he won the title, he had a defence at Royal Rumble against of course Randy Orton! now he may have won that match due to the interferance of Rhodes and DiBiase, but he never won the match clean, then of course he lost it at Elimination Chamber, only to win it again at Fatal 4 Way, he then defended it against Cena at Money in the Bank ppv in a cage match, again winning with the interferance of Nexus, well i'm not too fussy over this, but now at SummerSlam again he took on Orton, now getting DQ'd, and Orton winning...again not a clean defense of the title!!

Now I know he is a heel and they have these heelish tactics to get through matches, but I really feel that the piece missing to make him a real world champion is to defend the title and retain clean...Kinda like Jack Swagger did against Randy Orton at Extreme Rules...By doing this I think it will make him a good heel champion...

Thoughts??

 

[cmillsa1]

Well i personally dont care much for sheamus right now. He has about 3 moves he does and they are typical. Albeit he does them well. Its almost like he's Super Cenas archrival Pale Irish dude. But if he's gonna be champion it needs to be more believable. HHH won alot of his titles as a heel by heel tactics with china or the original DX. but shaemus needs a lot of work before he is even good imo.

 

[Stevepwwe]

I agree, they should let him go over someone in a clean win for once. I cannot remember a single title match he's been involved in that has had a clean ending, and if the WWE wants everyone to see him as a top guy he has to be able to win matches against the current top guys in a fair fight. Being a heel means he will occasionally win by cheating or retain by DQ, but he needs a clean win to get over.

 

[FunKay the Inevitable]

Sheamus has improved a lot over the past few months and his match quality has increased also. I personally felt that they could have given him that clean pinfall victory over Randy Orton last night but I think the WWE has plans to give Orton the championship in the near future. He pinned Triple H and then sent him packing off of television. The thing is, I don't see Sheamus pinning anyone, of note, cleanly with the WWE title around his waist. I think we may have to wait awhile to see him cleanly pin someone in a big one on one match. I would love to Sheamus cleanly pin someone like Cena or Triple H but we're just going to have to wait until he loses the WWE Title.

 

[The Brain]

I don't think a clean pinfall is necessary. He should however stop acting like a coward. I know heels are usually cowardly, but that doesn't fit Sheamus well. He needs to be an intimidating fearless warrior. That suits him much better. If he needs to cheat to win so be it. I don't like how he runs away from Nexus and I wasn't crazy about how he looked last night. I don't even mind the intentional dq. The problem was he looked very weak after the match when he could barely walk out. This is the guy who took out Triple H. You would think that would make him an unstoppable force, but he's been just the opposite since.

 

[Dave]

You know, I actually agree with you to a point. I am however holding my restraint in agreeing with you completely. The thing about Sheamus is that he is trying to get over a dominant heel character and as of yet, we all have yet to see any evidence that would suggest that he actually IS that person that the WWE would like him to be. Apart from a couple of wins of Evan Bourne and Mark Henry, I cannot remember the last time when I watched a match with Sheamus and felt that he basically dominated his opponent. That would be fine if he was carrying the dominance into his title matches but that is simply not happening at all.

The OP is absolutely correct. The Sheamus matches are starting to get to me. The constant DQ finishes that the WWE are throwing us is beginning to get tiresome and I know that I will eventually just switch it off when it comes to a Sheamus Championship match if they keep following the trend of finishing his matches. His match with Randy Orton last night was a prime opportunity to get Sheamus over as a dominant heel and a win over Orton would have cemented his place at the top table of the WWE. God knows Randy Orton would not have suffered because of it and I am sure that Sheamus could have used it. However, it would have ended the feud stone dead and I can understand why they chose not to go that route.

However, I do have to agree that he needs to go over someone like John Cena or Randy Orton clean to show us that the WWE can pass him off as a dominant heel. However, there is more to his character than being dominant. He also has a little bit of a comedy heel thing going and cowardice just works well in that situation. Although I would love to see him go over a top tier guy soon, I fear it may not happen at this point in time.

 

[SuperSav10]

I agree with you, although a Clean Win over Randy Orton would of just hurt everything Orton's got going for him. I know they need to get Sheamus over with a Clean Win over a top Star, but doing it over Orton last night would just of hurt Orton. Sheamus still has the Title, still looks Strong, and Orton looks Strong by leaving the PPV on the Upper Hand.

Ideally, they should have him beat a Superstar that isn't a completely strong Face as such, but is a Top Superstar who the Crowd would take to. Having him beat someone like Chris Jericho clean for the Title, even on a Raw, would do him a great deal, and wouldn't really hurt Jericho either.

 

[silrock316]

I don't feel Sheamus is a great wrestler by any stretch but what he does have is a CHARACTER. Not his real name. I have never liked the usuage of real names. Wrestling is wrestling and what got my turned on to wrestling was Macho Man Randy Savage..Hulk Hogan..guys like Undertaker, Kane, Papa Shango...characters that let you use your imagination. Which is why I do like Sheamus and I feel they are using him perfectly. We take him serious. He has a bit of comedy in him FELLA. He doesn't have to win clean to get over. He is over. Kurt Angle got HUGE in the WWE off of being a weisel stealing championships.

 

[airvar]

Problem is Randy Orton and Cena....

They are the top two guy's in the company hand's down, so you can't keep them away from the title picture for that long of a time.

A feud with Jericho or Edge would do him wonder's, they are a few people that (even as faces) could put him over as a dominate force... They are just trying so hard to keep that "unbeatable stigma" orton and cena have, and rightfully so they ARE the top two guys in the company.

What should have happened last night is Sheamus should have beat Orton half to death with the steel chair, it get's the poitn across, ORton looses via DQ (and still looks strong), and Sheamus looks dominate..

I don't mind the DQ win, I mind the post match beatdown he recieved (AFTER delivering the Brouge Kick)

 

[Rammsteinerteen]

Sure, everybody loved sheamus for taking john cena's title. I even did. But now that I see him have it, he doesn't impress me at all. His match with orton yesterday was terrible. He didn't show any great wrestling skills. The only thing he did was the fiery red hand and the bicycle kick. Orton didn't even save the match. Sheamus is so boring these days. All of his feuds suck, and wwe is making look like an undominating loser. Honestly, brock lesnar made a bigger impact in 2002.

 

[ultraviolence]

Are you kidding me, I am actually beginning to like Sheamus because he's got the whole "dirty wins" thing going on. Ric Flair constantly won titles for fighting dirty, so has Chris Jericho. The reason they come off they way they do is because they do whatever they have to do to win and that makes them dangerous. Sheamus has a good thing going, his current character would be lost and boring if it wasn't for the "dirty wins", it's not broken, don't fix it.

 

[BigLuther]

I'm not sure I entirely agree. Being a top heel, a lot of the time, means that you simply aren't winning your matches clean against the top faces. Jericho was a prime example during his recent title runs. Or better yet, just look at Edge when he was first put into the main event scene. The guy couldn't win a match without Lita getting involved. It gets you tremendous heat, obviously. Now, Sheamus doesn't need that heat anymore because I think ever since his first title run, his heat has gotten better and better.

In this particular instance, though, there was no reason for Sheamus to win clean. WWE is obviously happy with the Orton/Sheamus feud, and want it to continue into Night of Champions with Orton chasing the belt. Most will agree that Orton is better when in the hunt, rather than as champion. If Orton came out and beat Sheamus in their first match, there's no intrigue for the rematch. Now, if Orton wins at NoC, and then they have their rubber match at the HIAC PPV, then it gets fun.

It's all about feud continuity and setting things up for future PPVs. A clean win wouldn't do anything for Sheamus other than the initial thought of "wow, Sheamus beat Orton clean." You would forget it ever happened by the next PPV.

 

[triple_b2k]

I've been thinking this for a while! (I'd say, been saying this but I'm not on the boards enough). I enjoy the fact he's a 'cowardly heel'. There have been too many 'cool' and 'monster' heels lately. This is a nice change of pace but even cowardly heels get a clean pinful or submission on top faces sometimes.
DQ's, cheating, etc are all too familiar victories for these guys and help prolong the story but sometimes you need to rewrite the book.

 

[cmillsa1]

Sheamus should never play the coward role. He's just too huge. Flair and Jericho did it but they were smaller guys and they could actually wrestle.

As far as not letting him get over one of the major faces in the company with a clean win, what about lesnar VS The rock at i believe WM20. Lesnar was still fairly fresh and he beat the rock at WM.

 

[sTyLnK]

Shemus has improved so much in one year it's not even funny. Seriously the guy looks like he's been in the biz for years. He looks comfortable in the ring and like a natural. As for winning clean, well he's a heel. When the hell do heels ever win clean? It's always by interference or something. I'm fine with how things are with him. My brother watched SS with me and the actual WWE in years. He had no idea who most of the wrestlers were, but when we were watching the Shemus/Orton match he said flat out that Shemus seems like a good wrestler. Told him he's barely been in the WWE for one year and he was very surprised. Just my opinion.

 

[brighamosity]

Honestly, brock lesnar made a bigger impact in 2002.

No crap dude. That's like saying "Even Goldberg made a bigger impact in 1998 than The Miz." or "Even The Rock made a bigger impact than John Morrison." Brock Lesner was being pushed to be the face of the company. Of course he made a bigger impact! He also made a bigger impact in his rookie year than Cena, Orton, or any other rookie in the last decade. You show me one other wrestler in the last decade who made a bigger impact in their rookie year than Brock Lesner. There simply isn't one. So to even try to downplay Sheamus by saying he wasn't as 'even as good as Lesner" shows that you clearly weren't watching wrestling back then. Brock Lesner's character was like a heel Bill Goldberg. Even John Cena and Randy Orton would have been jobbing to him. If I remember correctly, even Hogan did a clean job and he had Hogan bleeding all over the place. I think that was at King of the Ring 2002.

Anyway, my point is that not every heel can be a monster like Yokozuna or Kane. Kurt Angle played a role similar to Sheamus and he has had a very successful career. However, I do think that a clean victory over someone like Cena would cement him in the main event. I just started watching wrestling again less than a year ago after about a 7 year hiatus, and Sheamus was the champion, and all I could think was "Who is this guy?" (I knew who the big players were but people like The Miz and Kofi Kingston, I had never heard of them.) And while I do like his character, he's still not a credible champion in my eyes.

 

[enterkey]

Sheamus should never play the coward role. He's just too huge. Flair and Jericho did it but they were smaller guys and they could actually wrestle.

As far as not letting him get over one of the major faces in the company with a clean win, what about lesnar VS The rock at i believe WM20. Lesnar was still fairly fresh and he beat the rock at WM.

Rock vs Brock was a Summerslam main event, not WM but I do believe that they need to finally let this guy dominate the WWE similarly to how Triple H did back in his early World Title runs. Sheamus is a fuckin huge guy that could beat the shit out of anyone he wanted to, look at what he did to Triple H, so why would he be a coward and run from people? The man that squashes the likes of Bourne, Henry, Goldust, and many others runs from a couple rookies and fears the RKO? It just doesn't add up to me and the SummerSlam buildup would have been better if both Orton and Sheamus had gotten the better of each other on different weeks to show how evenly matched they were but instead they showed us week after week of them feeding Sheamus to the RKO and making Sheamus look unbelievably weak. This guy has the strength, speed, some decent in ring ability, and is able to get good heat on the mic but they still feel that he'd be better used as the dime a dozen cowardly heel that can't win a title match clean to save his life. There is still hope for him though, both Edge and Orton had this same dime a dozen gimmick a few years ago when they would intentionally get DQed if they thought they had no chance in the match, usually involving Cena such as Orton blatantly slapping the ref hilariously, but they have gone on to have great title runs and feuds since then so maybe this is just a right of passage and Sheamus will one day reach the same levels as Edge and Orton.

 

[Ruthless-RKO]

Sheamus should never play the coward role. He's just too huge. Flair and Jericho did it but they were smaller guys and they could actually wrestle.

As far as not letting him get over one of the major faces in the company with a clean win, what about lesnar VS The rock at i believe WM20. Lesnar was still fairly fresh and he beat the rock at WM.

LMFAO...it was SummerSlam 2002!!
----------------------------------------

I have been reading through some of the posts and it sounds like some of you are going in a different direction...You say heels cheat, yes thats true, however with a cheat maybe a low blow or interferance, there is still a pinfall!!

In Sheamus' matches the match doesn't even end in a pinfall, no fall even ends the match, its a DQ...which everyone will agree, a pinfall is different to a DQ, since some comparisons have been made to Kurt Angle, I will take his first WWF title reign here..
He defeated the rock after an interferance by rikishi at No Mercy, then succesfully pinned and retained against the Undertaker at Survivor Series after an interferance, at Rebellion succesfully defended and pinned Rikishi in a fatal 4 way match with the interferance of E&C and Radicalz, then at Armageddon, well he couldn't be DQ'd anyway, and lastly he pinned Triple H(then a face) at Royal Rumble 2001, he however lost it at No Way Out to the rock...

But here it is, having him pin guys like Taker and HHH in his title defences (even thought there was an interferance) it got him up there because of how he won the matches, Yes he was a wimp back then, but he still pinned his opponents and that is why I believe he had a good first reign!!

Also, because of his look Sheamus is built as a Warrior! he looks like he can really dominate, as much as I love it when we have cowardly heels, Sheamus shouldn't be one, that role perfectly fits Jack Swagger!

 

[Chardee Macdennis]

I don't think Sheamus NEEDS a clean win over Orton/Cena, but it certainly couldn't hurt. IMO, they had absolutely no choice but to end the match in DQ fashion last night. It allows a feud to continue between two guys that would have absolutely nothing going on if not for each other. Clearly Sheamus/Orton makes the most sense right now and having Orton lose clean last night would have destroyed the fued. Cena is tied up w/Nexus and Miz is not going to cash in MITB at an advertised match. In another thread the OP asked where would Randy go if he lost to Sheamus last night? The answer right now is, no where. Sure they could throw together some shit storyline for either of the two, but why would they do that when this fued is working so well right now. W/Cena out of the title hunt for a lil while, Sheamus needs another top guy to fued with until the GAME returns. Who better than Orton? Can anyone else tell me where Orton would be if not chasing the belt?

 

[XXJJ]

Yeah Sheamus shouldn't play a coward type heel. He doesn't have that look. That is something Miz or Jericho can do. Sheamus is more like Lesnar to me. I thought they should of gave him a clean win against Cena.

Anyway he has grown on me he had a really good match with Orton last night.

 

[The 1-2-3 Killam]

I can't believe you actually liked Sheamus when he beat John Cena the first time... Don't get me wrong, I love him now, but then I didn't think he had a single fan. That win was such a joke...but anyways, I agree and disagree with you. Sheamus does need to win clean. However, I think now they're doing it for a reason.

-He put Cena through a table.
-Nexus helped him twice
-He DQ'd against Orton

Sheamus now has a record for cheating to hold the belt. And it's something they can use. Think about it. I used to think he needed a clean victory to legitimize him as champion, but he's done that for himself without winning. He's dominant, he's good on the mic, and he draws great heat, without the clean win. Now, let him get the cheap victory at Night of Champions. Say he beats Miz or Orton for the title in an underhanded way. But then let's say Triple H returns (remember that'll be right around his expected date). Triple H could say to hell with Sheamus, it's time for him to get some revenge. And this time it's not going to be in a way that he can cheat. Because they're going 1-on-1 at Hell in a Cell for the WWE title. It works perfectly for everybody involved. And then you know what...? Let Sheamus win. That'll be his clean victory that everybody is calling for. It makes sense, it works for both sides, and everybody's happy. And then maybe, as soon as the Cell goes up you have Miz cash in MITB to win the title...?

 

[AmericanDragonSW]

I'm in agreement over the fact that yes, he can't seem to legitimately beat anybody clean. The best example being Randy Orton. How do they expect us to take Sheamus seriously if he can't actually win a match over a guy like Orton. He had to jump Triple H to beat him and anytime he beat Cena, it was through other means. Enough already. They need to start making this guy legitimate if they want the crowd to start buying into him. This is why I have been saying between the two, I take Drew McIntyre more seriously than I do Sheamus. WWE really isn't doing a good job at putting Sheamus over. He's supposed to be some heavy hitter but really, he's just all talk and nothing else.

 

[martymcfly]

Sheamus needs to win clean, but over who? Someone in the higher tier, or just someone?

I can understand the point of this thread, but I think the whole point right now is that sheamus' character is someone who has the title but does not deserve it because he's just not good enough. I'm not saying that he can't play with the big boys, so to speak, but I think the whole point of his title reign is that it is supposed to be undeserved. Kind of like what they did for edge not so long ago--for a really long stretch of time, he never (or rarely) won or retained a title match cleanly. Same thing here--sheamus right now is not supposed to be considered a worthy title holder, and the wrestling fans are not supposed to buy him as a credible champion. That's the whole point.

I think that it is done on purpose so that when that person is finally beaten, and beaten cleanly, it is more exhilarating and worthy of celebration.

 

[SpoodBeest]

Sheamus is in dire need of a clean WWE title defense because every time it has been one on one for that title, Sheamus has always been muddled in some kind of controversy. Let's look back to when he won his first WWE title shall we? He won by pushing Cena off the top rope making Cena fall through a table, and that's a pretty fluky way to win your first title. He ends up defending the title against Randy Orton at the Royal Rumble and wins by disqualification due to Cody Rhodes blatantly attacking him in front of the referee. Sheamus then went to lose his title in the RAW Elimination Chamber three weeks afterwards.

Sheamus after defeating Triple H and taking him out of action at Extreme Rules seeked to get his title back. He ends up competing in RAW's Fatal 4 Way at the pay-per-view of the same name and due to Nexus interfering and attacking everyone but him he sneaks in the ring and gets quick pin on John Cena to win the title again. After this his title defense is against Cena and the match is thrown out once again due to Nexus' interference. Then match for the title is taken place between the two again at Money In The Bank which Nexus hold up both of them as they try to escape the cage and Sheamus gets the better of them and ends up touching the floor first anyway.

Then he went on to SummerSlam to defend his title against Randy Orton. Now the match was going along really good and seemed Sheamus was going to finish off Orton with the Brogue Kick but Orton kicked out much to his disbelief. So what did Sheamus do? He threw the referee out of the ring and got himself intentionally disqualified. What help does this do to Sheamus during his title reigns? Not once since he has been champion has been able to cleanly pin a top star. Why is it so hard to book him to go over either Cena or Orton and have him hit one of his finishers and get a simple 1,2,3? It shouldn't be and I think I have said this before that Sheamus needs to get a clean successful title defense before the fans just label him as fluke champion forever.