Shawn Michaels: Overrated.

[S.J. Maximus]

A few months ago someone posted a thread on this site and he claimed that Chris Jericho was the single greatest wrestler of all-time. Although a lot of people said he's up there but not number 1, a bunch of people criticized him for not having the tools to be the number 1 guy in a company and said he's nothing more than a midcarder. The latter response really irks me, because most people on this forum would agree that Shawn Michaels is a top 5 all-time wrestler, but when has he ever shown his ability to draw?

He was the face of the WWE from 1996-1998, which was the only time period where WCW beat WWE in ratings. A lot of people consider WrestleMania XI one of the worst of all-time, yet HBK was the one in the title match that year. He never got the loudest crowd reaction because Hogan did, then Hart did, then Austin did, then HHH did (as a heel), then Chris Benoit did, then John Cena ever since. His merchandise sales? He's barely a cash cow as a singles competitor because no one wants his ass-less chaps or anything.

Who do you think of when thinking of top draws in wrestling's history? Bruno Sammartino, Andre the Giant, Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Rock, John Cena. What about the best on the mic? Flair's mentioned, so is Rock, Austin, Hogan, and even Chris Jericho before Shawn Michaels. In the ring? Bret Hart, Kurt Angle, Flair, all before HBK once again. According to the forums that were created to discuss these topics, those were all the names above HBK so it's not like I'm using my opinion, I'm using yours.

I understand that Chris Jericho is an extremely charismatic wrestler with the skills of a top guy but he's just not a big draw - but so is Shawn Michaels. Michaels has never ever proved that he's better than Hogan, Rock, Austin, or even Cena at drawing crowds and making money. His in-ring ability is paralleled, and there are even people better (just like Y2J). Y2J is one of the all-time greats on the mic and Michaels isn't there, so why in the blue hell do even 5 people on this planet consider this man "the greatest wrestler of all-time"?

 

[klunderbunker]

Shawn was more of a victim of bad timing than anything else. 1995 was BRUTAL to WWF as Diesel got no one excited for the most part. Shawn took over in April of 96 and later that month Scott Hall showed up on Nitro. Now what a lot of people miss about the debut of the Outsiders is how much that hurt WWF by subtraction. Razor was a very solid and dependable midcard guy that could have been slipped into the main event with ease. Diesel was firmly established as a main event guy and could have been a solid heel monster. Combining that with Bret pouting at home for six months and WWF is out three upper level stars instantly. Shawn was the best in the world at that point but with no one of note to fight (Vader was held off, Austin was just starting to be a big deal and Bret and Diesel were gone and Taker was a face) there was no drama to his matches. Shawn was great and isn't overrated, but when you combine what WWF had with the NWO angle starting up about three or four weeks into his title reign, Shawn didn't have a chance to do anything and neither did anyone else at that time.

As for in the ring, I'd really question putting him behind all of those guys listed.

 

[amazing_blue]

^In that regard, you could really consider him to be an underrated wrestler. Maybe I'm bias but I'll take the WWF of 1996 over WCW anyday and I feel like Shawn was more fun to watch.

And who knows how the Austin era would have begun if not for Shawn? I feel like if it weren't for what DX and Bret Hart did in 1997, things might not have gone as smoothly as they did for the WWF in the years that followed.

 

[The Brain]

Overrated is an often misunderstood term. In order to be overrated one would have to perform at a level below what most people give him credit for. I don’t think Michaels is overrated at all. No one has ever argued he was a great draw. Not many compliment his work on the mic, a category I fell he is actually underrated. When people praise Shawn Michaels it is for his ability in the ring. In my opinion the only one who can match him there is Bret Hart. Shawn is often rated as a top five in ring performer of his generation and I think that’s a fair rating.

 

[Iversen]

A few months ago someone posted a thread on this site and he claimed that Chris Jericho was the single greatest wrestler of all-time. Although a lot of people said he's up there but not number 1, a bunch of people criticized him for not having the tools to be the number 1 guy in a company and said he's nothing more than a midcarder. The latter response really irks me, because most people on this forum would agree that Shawn Michaels is a top 5 all-time wrestler, but when has he ever shown his ability to draw?

He was the face of the WWE from 1996-1998, which was the only time period where WCW beat WWE in ratings. A lot of people consider WrestleMania XI one of the worst of all-time, yet HBK was the one in the title match that year. He never got the loudest crowd reaction because Hogan did, then Hart did, then Austin did, then HHH did (as a heel), then Chris Benoit did, then John Cena ever since. His merchandise sales? He's barely a cash cow as a singles competitor because no one wants his ass-less chaps or anything.

Who do you think of when thinking of top draws in wrestling's history? Bruno Sammartino, Andre the Giant, Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Rock, John Cena. What about the best on the mic? Flair's mentioned, so is Rock, Austin, Hogan, and even Chris Jericho before Shawn Michaels. In the ring? Bret Hart, Kurt Angle, Flair, all before HBK once again. According to the forums that were created to discuss these topics, those were all the names above HBK so it's not like I'm using my opinion, I'm using yours.

I understand that Chris Jericho is an extremely charismatic wrestler with the skills of a top guy but he's just not a big draw - but so is Shawn Michaels. Michaels has never ever proved that he's better than Hogan, Rock, Austin, or even Cena at drawing crowds and making money. His in-ring ability is paralleled, and there are even people better (just like Y2J). Y2J is one of the all-time greats on the mic and Michaels isn't there, so why in the blue hell do even 5 people on this planet consider this man "the greatest wrestler of all-time"?

His ability to draw involves so much more than his ability to wrestle. It involves how he's marketed, how his feuds are booked, the competition (and this ones key) at the time and so much other stuff.

Shawn was on top at this time against a WCW which had stolen a lot of the big names and was getting onto a big thing by striking gold with the NWO. What are the old fans going to do? They are going to follow their favs thats just natural. If TNA got Cena and aw few other big names and shoved them on a major network I'm sure most of the Cenation generation would follow much like the Hulkamania generation.

HBKs ability to draw was based on the timing not down to his as a wrestler. If you ignore that old pish of him not being able to draw Michaels, like Jericho, is one of the most naturally talented in ring performers there been which is obviously very different from the most influential which could be rated by the ability to draw and obviously falls at the feet of a certain Mr. Hulk Hogan.

 

[marklouis]

And you probably think The Miz is God's gift to wrestling right? If you think that the only thing that matters is money, then there are guys ahead of HBK. But if you care about the quality of in ring performances along with the ability to carry on a feud & actually make you care, then HBK is arguably the best ever. Wrestlemania XI was bad, but the HBK/Diesel match was actually pretty good, considering the talent HBK was working with. I'd say it's one of if not Nash's best match. It's funny how you forget to bring up Wrestlemania XII when you say that HBK didn't get the kind of crowd pops as others. Did you see the reaction when he won the title over Hart? You could also make a case for there not being an attitude era without DX. They were the first guys in WWE to do the kind of things that would become standard for the era, and the group also created one of the biggest stars in the company, HHH. Could that group have been successful with anyone else from that era as its leader? And by the way, how much money do you think DX has made for Vince McMahon? They've created more merchandise for that group than just about anyone else in history, & they wouldn't make it if it didn't sell.

Isn't just possible that WCW beat WWE in 1996-98 because they were better? NWO was one of the greatest angles ever, WCW was spending huge money for top talent, & their booking was better than WWE. The Sting v NWO storyline was a classic. And I haven't even mentioned the cruiserweights, a division full of guys who would become stars in WWE after WCW went under. How about you give a little credit to WCW for being really good? The WCW roster was just plain better than WWE's at the time, and they knew how to use it. HBK could only do so much on his own. His feud with Hart was very well done, but what else did WWE have until Austin rose to fame? HBK didn't even compete in Wrestlemania XIII, but I guess you'll blame that one on him to? That PPV had one decent match. By your rationale, shouldn't we also say that Hart & The Undertaker are overrated?

 

[JayMiine]

WrestleMania XI really had nothing to do with HBK. He was the challenger for the title, and not even the main event. It is considered one of the worst of all time because of the undercard and Bam Bam vs LT as the Main Event. You can't put that solely on HBK.

He is an incredible in ring worker, and even if you put him under Flair, Hart and Angle(3 of the best EVER) he's still the 4th best wrestler in history, in the ring.

The NWO was the biggest and most popular thing the wrestling business has ever seen. That is no fault of HBK. It was bad timing for him.

 

[Tors Hall Rule]

Overrated is an often misunderstood term. In order to be overrated one would have to perform at a level below what most people give him credit for. I don’t think Michaels is overrated at all. No one has ever argued he was a great draw. Not many compliment his work on the mic, a category I fell he is actually underrated. When people praise Shawn Michaels it is for his ability in the ring. In my opinion the only one who can match him there is Bret Hart. Shawn is often rated as a top five in ring performer of his generation and I think that’s a fair rating.

I agree with The Brain.. I would also add one more thing to the frame.. His ability to tell a story.. You know the announcers would have said it umpteen no of times that HBK has heart and passion and what not else, but that to me surmised how well he would connect to and display the emotion that was required at that point of time in a match.. Remember his "I'm sorry.. I Love You" to Ric Flair, or his hatred towards Triple H when he came back in 2002, or his over-selling against Hogan (that was one hilarious match.. HH was in tears) True he was a SOB who played politics to reach the top of food chain but you cant deny whether he was a bad mouthed SOB from DX or the lame ass kid goof that he became later on, he always gave us good matches to watch.. Be it Cena, Jericho, Flair, Undertaker, Bret Hart, Triple H, or hell a bloody cactus from Sahara.. Now true the name of the people that I have written are undoubtedly great performers in their own respect but its not THEY who are in a 5 star match with Shawn.. Its Shawn who is in a 5 Star match with them.. And there-in lies his legacy.. He entertained us with his wrestling..

 

[kingjaekob]

Talking about over rated! Chris Jericho is over rated! I dont think his monotone mic skills are any good! I always wondered if Jericho had what it took to become on legend in the business! My favorite moment ever in WWE was when he arrived in aug. 1999. But I dont think he is all that great! S. J. Maximus pointed out that HBK didnt selll T-Shirts etc... Do you think Jericho, Edge, Benoit, Miz, J.B.L, Guerrero, etc.. sold more than HBK? No these guys are not in HBK's league!

Going back to S.J Maximus comment about WCW being on top of WWF ratings! This was a special time, My Question is, what if HBK had gone to WCW, how bad would the ratings have been then! HBK was at the top of his game then! My favorite match ever WM12 HBK vs Bret Hart. No one from WCW could pull off a match like that! NWO was a special thing that happened and changed the wrestling world for a while!

Shawn Micheals is the best ever! He is better than HHH, Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, Bret Hart, Austin, The Rock, Sting, Ultimate Warrior, ALL around, including Ring Ability, Mic Skills, Time in the Business, his great matches, He is no Doubt the BEST EVER!

Best Ever Ability: guys like: Bret Hart, Macho Man Randy Savage, Ricky Steamboat, Ric Flair, Ravishing Rick Rude, Rick Martel, Eddie Guerrero, and others

Mic Skills: The Rock, Ric Flair, Hulk Hogan, Sting, Dusty Rhoades, Rick Rude, Mr Perfect

Guys that put on Wrestling cliniques! Savage, Steamboat, Hart, Hbk, Flair, Henning, Rick Rude, Eddie Guerrero, Benoit,

 

[Chauncy Talon]

Lol. Everybody will have there concepts of who is, or who is not, overrated. Your tier list will be different then mine,kingjaekob and everybody else. Nice job on the points, that is how decusions are made.

I don't believe Shawn Michaels is overrated. He was there at the right place and the right time. While people was going to WCW, he stayed. He was handed the ball and ran with it, multiple times.

 

[sajsSAMynwa1892]

Talking about over rated! Chris Jericho is over rated! I dont think his monotone mic skills are any good! I always wondered if Jericho had what it took to become on legend in the business! My favorite moment ever in WWE was when he arrived in aug. 1999. But I dont think he is all that great! S. J. Maximus pointed out that HBK didnt selll T-Shirts etc... Do you think Jericho, Edge, Benoit, Miz, J.B.L, Guerrero, etc.. sold more than HBK? No these guys are not in HBK's league!

Going back to S.J Maximus comment about WCW being on top of WWF ratings! This was a special time, My Question is, what if HBK had gone to WCW, how bad would the ratings have been then! HBK was at the top of his game then! My favorite match ever WM12 HBK vs Bret Hart. No one from WCW could pull off a match like that! NWO was a special thing that happened and changed the wrestling world for a while!

Shawn Micheals is the best ever! He is better than HHH, Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, Bret Hart, Austin, The Rock, Sting, Ultimate Warrior, ALL around, including Ring Ability, Mic Skills, Time in the Business, his great matches, He is no Doubt the BEST EVER!

Best Ever Ability: guys like: Bret Hart, Macho Man Randy Savage, Ricky Steamboat, Ric Flair, Ravishing Rick Rude, Rick Martel, Eddie Guerrero, and others

Mic Skills: The Rock, Ric Flair, Hulk Hogan, Sting, Dusty Rhoades, Rick Rude, Mr Perfect

Guys that put on Wrestling cliniques! Savage, Steamboat, Hart, Hbk, Flair, Henning, Rick Rude, Eddie Guerrero, Benoit,

the only thing i can agree with you on is in my support for michaels, never overrated, however i do have several problems.
1- Chris Jericho is over rated! - he isnt, in the ring he is behind only the VERY best, some of which you have mentioned, but he is pure gold on the mic, funny as a face and absolute gold as a heel.
2-WM12 HBK vs Bret Hart. No one from WCW could pull off a match like that! - this match is OVERRATED. full of rest holds and very little excitement until the match was restarted
3- best mic skills... HULK HOGAN??!!!- this man cut 1 good promo after his heel turn and suddenly his great on the mic, he just mumbles and shouts incomprehensively...

though i do agree with your general point, hbk is NOT overrated

shawn michaels is never overrated, in the ring i agree with whoever else mentioned that only flair, bret and angle can compare to michaels, and whoever critisised him on the mic i really disagree, remember his promo in montreal, 2005 i think? and his other promos regarding hulk hogan, brilliant. he still got bigger pops than the majority of wrestlers and if you compare his overrall top 10 matches with anyone in wrestling history, youd struggle to beat michaels

 

[MMK]

Overrated?? If anything, Shawn Micheals is UNDERrated.

Shawn's not to blame for the lackluster years from 95-97. That had more to do with Vince running out of ideas after years of the same old Hogan crap. Also, WCW was white hot with the NWO storyline.

Every match Shawn was in, whether it was as The Rocker, with Sensational Sherri, with Diesel, on his own, or with DX, they were all fantastic.

Remember earlier this year when he superkicked Alberto Del Rio? He just walked in, kicked him, then danced back out. Didn't say a word. And he didnt have to. The crowd went nuts. THAT'S charisma. He has more charisma in his boot than the entire current roster combined. And that's coming from a lifelong Bret Hart fan.

 

[Swarles Barkley]

WM12 HBK vs Bret Hart. No one from WCW could pull off a match like that! - this match is OVERRATED. full of rest holds and very little excitement until the match was restarted

I am going to guess that you are a newer fan because the Bret-Shawn Iron Man match is far from overrated. I hate to use the term overrated simply because what one thinks is overrated my be underrated to others. For instance, if I think a match is third best of all time and you think it's ninth, you would say that it's overrated based on my opinion, whereas I would say it's underrated based on yours.

Anyway, I remember watching Bret-Shawn live (and I've watched it many times since then) and there is nothing boring about it. Great match from two of the best of all time. Not saying you're wrong, just saying I don't agree with you at all.

Talking about over rated! Chris Jericho is over rated! I dont think his monotone mic skills are any good!

I'll make the same guess regarding you because you talk about how his mic skills are monotone which leads me to believe that you haven't been following pro wrestling as long as I have. Go find his stuff from 1998 in WCW, or his earlier WWE stuff. If you think that is monotone, I suggest you look up the word in a dictionary.

Also, he delivered his promos that way so you would hate him because he was a heel. His goal was to anger you, so he took everything you loved about Y2J and threw it away. It was genius.

As to the point of the thread, using the term overrated or underrated is so subjective because it changes on the person. With HBK I don't think he's overrated or underrated; I think he's rated exactly where he should be: one of the top talents of all time. Whether he's one, two, five or ten is immaterial and up to the individual. HBK is one of the best to ever lace up the boots, and I find it hard to believe anyone would consider that opinion of him to be an over or under rating of Shawn Michaels.

 

[DEFINITEONE]

i wont say Jericho's mic skills are overrated bc that is ridiculous!! However, i will say that his skills as a top rated wrestler are at best thin!! He makes a good heel and a great undercard wrestler, but he was never a great main eventer..The WWE tried to make him one and it just didnt work. In my opinion, and I note in MY OPINION, you are considered great if you are missed when you leave. Be it a face or a heel, if you have an absence from the business and are missed, then you are a top tier wrestler..obviously someone missed Jericho but not any amount of ppl that actually care about wrestling...most ppl were happy when he leaves and never excited abt when he comes back...but again that just one opinion of millions!

 

[Da Truth]

I often wondered what makes Shawn so great myself. I mean he's good but never just great to me. I think the reason why people feel that he's the greatest is his Wrestlemania performances; those performances are legendary. Then it's his ring psychology that makes him look so good. I also think Jericho is better. But as far as carrying opponents I think he's the best of all time. He's made some opponents with no wrestling ability look pretty descent and no one can sell an opponents offense like michaels the rock is a close second. I will say Shawn is in the top 20.

 

[sajsSAMynwa1892]

I am going to guess that you are a newer fan because the Bret-Shawn Iron Man match is far from overrated. I hate to use the term overrated simply because what one thinks is overrated my be underrated to others. For instance, if I think a match is third best of all time and you think it's ninth, you would say that it's overrated based on my opinion, whereas I would say it's underrated based on yours.

Anyway, I remember watching Bret-Shawn live (and I've watched it many times since then) and there is nothing boring about it. Great match from two of the best of all time. Not saying you're wrong, just saying I don't agree with you at all.


I'll make the same guess regarding you because you talk about how his mic skills are monotone which leads me to believe that you haven't been following pro wrestling as long as I have. Go find his stuff from 1998 in WCW, or his earlier WWE stuff. If you think that is monotone, I suggest you look up the word in a dictionary.

Also, he delivered his promos that way so you would hate him because he was a heel. His goal was to anger you, so he took everything you loved about Y2J and threw it away. It was genius.

As to the point of the thread, using the term overrated or underrated is so subjective because it changes on the person. With HBK I don't think he's overrated or underrated; I think he's rated exactly where he should be: one of the top talents of all time. Whether he's one, two, five or ten is immaterial and up to the individual. HBK is one of the best to ever lace up the boots, and I find it hard to believe anyone would consider that opinion of him to be an over or under rating of Shawn Michaels.

fair enough, btw i dont think its a bad match, i just dont think its as good as everyone else seems to think, the fact that it lasted over an hour is quite misleading when based against the 20 minutes or more of the match that was rest holds, though the last 5 mins and the restart i thought were great. but i like it less than you fair enough, been into wrestling for 11 years but have seen more pre-2000 than post if that counts for anything? btw i completely agree with you about jericho his mic skills are up there with the best in my opinion

 

[mrbooker]

Overrated not at all

As far as drawing power Shawn Michaels imo is a HUGE reason WWE is still a company today when Scott Hall and Kevin Nash went to WCW with Hogan to form the NWO it was THE HOTTEST stable of the century no stable ever got the wrestling world buzzing like NWO.

And yet HBK did things that still got the wrestling world buzzing WM12 was considered the greatest mania match by many, he created DX which also was a great stable, he also innovated in promos doing things we never saw on TV HBK is not overrated in the slightest bit to be honest he was very underrated until he returned for another run, and his last two mania matches are kind of a stamp on what he is rated.

HBK is great and yes Austin did innovate and yes Austin drew a hell of alot more and had great moments, but everyone likes to talk about great matches and great moments the matches are the payoff the matches is what makes every angle and feud legit and epic, personally their is not one person on the card of wm14 that i feel would have made the entrance into the austin/attitude era in more exciting then hbk vs stone cold. much like other epic matches andre vs hogan, rock vs hogan, hbk taker for something to be remembered it has to finish with a pin or submission in the ring and hbk 99.9% made the story 10 times more interesting to the final bell then anyone could

 

[Karaoke Superstar]

A few months ago someone posted a thread on this site and he claimed that Chris Jericho was the single greatest wrestler of all-time. Although a lot of people said he's up there but not number 1, a bunch of people criticized him for not having the tools to be the number 1 guy in a company and said he's nothing more than a midcarder. The latter response really irks me, because most people on this forum would agree that Shawn Michaels is a top 5 all-time wrestler, but when has he ever shown his ability to draw?

He was the face of the WWE from 1996-1998, which was the only time period where WCW beat WWE in ratings. A lot of people consider WrestleMania XI one of the worst of all-time, yet HBK was the one in the title match that year. He never got the loudest crowd reaction because Hogan did, then Hart did, then Austin did, then HHH did (as a heel), then Chris Benoit did, then John Cena ever since. His merchandise sales? He's barely a cash cow as a singles competitor because no one wants his ass-less chaps or anything.

Who do you think of when thinking of top draws in wrestling's history? Bruno Sammartino, Andre the Giant, Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Rock, John Cena. What about the best on the mic? Flair's mentioned, so is Rock, Austin, Hogan, and even Chris Jericho before Shawn Michaels. In the ring? Bret Hart, Kurt Angle, Flair, all before HBK once again. According to the forums that were created to discuss these topics, those were all the names above HBK so it's not like I'm using my opinion, I'm using yours.

I understand that Chris Jericho is an extremely charismatic wrestler with the skills of a top guy but he's just not a big draw - but so is Shawn Michaels. Michaels has never ever proved that he's better than Hogan, Rock, Austin, or even Cena at drawing crowds and making money. His in-ring ability is paralleled, and there are even people better (just like Y2J). Y2J is one of the all-time greats on the mic and Michaels isn't there, so why in the blue hell do even 5 people on this planet consider this man "the greatest wrestler of all-time"?

I get a little annoyed when people cite a wrestler's drawing power as how good they are. But you have gone the extra step and made it the entire base of your argument. Not being the top draw does not equal not being a draw at all, and HBK did draw. If the people profiting from John Cena's tacky T-shirt sales want to rank him as the best then they can go ahead. But as a fan it's always gonna be who entertains, who performs and that is where HBK delivers. His matches are always above average and often times great. He puts on a show and leaves the fans going home happy. He has practically carried Wrestlemania for the last few years. While your two money makers John Cena and Miz put on one of the most disappointing main event matches at mania in recent memory.

 

[theHeadliner]

You can't blame Michaels for the supporting cast he had (or didn't have) in 1995-1997. The overall show was lacking in all areas, and he happened to be the guy Vince went with because he was the best and most exciting superstar in the company at that time. If Michaels never got hurt and was still there in 1998-2001 when the Attitude Era was hot, Shawn would have drawn the shit out of events. If Michaels took the belt more during his return (2002-2010) he would have easily been a top draw as well. The angles, creative, and lack of established stars dragged his first reign down, and then his injury took away the chance to show what he really was made of. If he chose to take the belt more and be the man after he came back, he would have drawn with the best of them.

 

[t619]

I've always found Shawn and Brett overated. They were both average on the mic imo. ring skills were good but not great imo. Plus when these 2 were maineventing there was 0 stars in wwe besides taker. plus wrestlemania was in arenas not stadiums aswell. I still think Kurt Angle is the greatest of all time then Flair then Undertaker.

 

[The Prodigal Anti-Lemming]

A few months ago someone posted a thread on this site and he claimed that Chris Jericho was the single greatest wrestler of all-time. Although a lot of people said he's up there but not number 1, a bunch of people criticized him for not having the tools to be the number 1 guy in a company and said he's nothing more than a midcarder. The latter response really irks me, because most people on this forum would agree that Shawn Michaels is a top 5 all-time wrestler, but when has he ever shown his ability to draw?

He was the face of the WWE from 1996-1998, which was the only time period where WCW beat WWE in ratings. A lot of people consider WrestleMania XI one of the worst of all-time, yet HBK was the one in the title match that year. He never got the loudest crowd reaction because Hogan did, then Hart did, then Austin did, then HHH did (as a heel), then Chris Benoit did, then John Cena ever since. His merchandise sales? He's barely a cash cow as a singles competitor because no one wants his ass-less chaps or anything.

Who do you think of when thinking of top draws in wrestling's history? Bruno Sammartino, Andre the Giant, Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Rock, John Cena. What about the best on the mic? Flair's mentioned, so is Rock, Austin, Hogan, and even Chris Jericho before Shawn Michaels. In the ring? Bret Hart, Kurt Angle, Flair, all before HBK once again. According to the forums that were created to discuss these topics, those were all the names above HBK so it's not like I'm using my opinion, I'm using yours.

I understand that Chris Jericho is an extremely charismatic wrestler with the skills of a top guy but he's just not a big draw - but so is Shawn Michaels. Michaels has never ever proved that he's better than Hogan, Rock, Austin, or even Cena at drawing crowds and making money. His in-ring ability is paralleled, and there are even people better (just like Y2J). Y2J is one of the all-time greats on the mic and Michaels isn't there, so why in the blue hell do even 5 people on this planet consider this man "the greatest wrestler of all-time"?

Being an all-time great is not only about the ability to draw. A lot of other factors are involved, and in the case of Shawn Michaels, his legendary workrate and overall impact on the business—he was among the first world champions to lack a show physique and really proved that a less muscular wrestler could be just as marketable as Hogan or Warrior—guarantee his overall place in history.

True, he wasn’t the draw that Hogan and his ilk were. And that is precisely why I would never dream of including him in the top five greatest of all-time. His drawing power was undoubtedly hindered by the Warrior-induced slump that permeated wrestling during the early-1990s; however, definitely contributing to Shawn’s resume is the fact that he was virtually unchallenged as the WWF’s top wrestler for the better part of three years.

On the list of all-time greats, is Michaels top five caliber? Certainly not. Top 25? Absolutely.

Meanwhile, Chris Jericho was an average worker with an average impact on the industry at best. His major claim to greatness is unifying the WWF and WCW World championships into one solid lineage in 2001. Then he had a transitional run, losing to Triple-H after less than four months, and did not carry another world championship for eight years. Any illusion that he was ever the best of WWE’s best would be tempered by the fact that he spent most of the past decade mired in the promotion’s mid-card racking up Intercontinental championships.

Suggesting Jericho as a wrestler whose overall accomplishments are equal to those of Michaels on any level is an outright joke.

 

[georgia wrestling 2]

Interesting topic interesting opinions. I figured most people would defend Shawn Michaels and probably justified. I have never been the biggest Shawn Michaels fan but have to respect his performances in the ring. Overrated I agree is interesting term should he be included with the best of all time names sure. I also agree it depends on what you base it on in wrestling if you don't draw you won't succeed from a business stand point. And as stated earlier my understanding from different documented sources is they did not draw as much when Shawn was champion. As far as the roster talent Bret The Hart Foundation Undertaker etc. were all still there. Only Hall and Nash left at the beginning. Anyway Shawn has his place period in the best of all time. Let's be honest he WAS in the right place I don't think he would have EVER have gotten that push in WCW. I just could never see them pushing "little men like WWE did". HHH said it himself he never let his size stop him and as a matter of fact was smaller in stature overall when he became champion than when he started. The older footage of Shawn in his AWA days compared to later totally different appearance and athletic ability in my opinion. I can never see Shawn as the greatest performer in the history of Wrestling or WWE for that matter but definitely as one of the best and not overrated. Also, let me add I agree with the ironman match comment and as to no one being able to pull that off. 1 hour matches like that had already been done plenty of times before that. Go you tube Ric Flair vs. Sting for example 2 WCW NWA performers who could pull that off. Yes even in mid 90's they still could have they sure did that in the early 90's for sure. Also several cruiserweights could have also at the time. WCW had the cream of the crop at that time.

 

[asiatic7]

WOW!!! Thats going in pretty hard on the "Showstopper"! HBK is not the least bit overrated as far as I'm concerned. Lets throw out the fact that he doesn't sell a whole lot of merchandise (can you hold that against 'taker and HHH too?). Does he put butts in seats? I know personally when i went to see live shows in MSG it was always a treat to see HBK, one of my all time faves. Don't discount his in-ring ability. He has the ability to make ANYONE look good. He made Vader look like a monster and Vader sucked. Deisel, 'taker, he made them look better. On a side note, PWI magazine voted him match of the year every year from 2002-2010! Thats saying something. The one quality you have to give HBK over ANYBODY, if you can't give him anything else is his uncanny ability to make a storyline beliveable (the Ric Flair retirement, JBL's personal servant, Jericho/wife storyline....I can keep going). The man can Keep you interested in a storyline better than anyone. I'm suprised he's not an actor, he'll be great... There's a reason why people rate HBK so highly and it has nothing to do with how many tee shirts you sell...

P.S. Not everyone can be Hogan, Austin, Rock or Cena. Those kind of guys come aroundonce every hundred years....

 

[mr.davidson]

What a load of Garbage

Listening 2 U all Defend HBK.... The Truth is It is his fault 4 the ratings drop in 96... Doesnt matter what another company is doing... If your top star sucks then the COMPANY Sucks.....

If it wasnt for SCSA the company would of stayed Mid Card staute.. because u had a Mid Card star pushed 2 be the Top Star.. Cause Hoagn took his crew and went 2 greener pastures....

This pisses me off when i read threads like this... because everyone is so quick 2 blame Hogan for the current state of TNA... But U r defending HBK for the condition of WWF at that time...

HBK Sucks.... Period... He only got his chance cause the Golden Goose (Hogan) and his Crew Left!! HBK had nuthing to do with WWE Sucess... He just hid under the dress and went for the ride of top starts like Hulk Hogan and then SCSA and the Rock... And clamed he was a ICON.... Yawn... BACK it up is all I am saying!!!

Wrestling Skills ...Whatever... Name a Time he has ever Sold out and been on top with the likes of Hulk Hogan or SCSA.. then I will agree... Until Then... All u have proven to me is that U are pushing guys 4 their so called wrestling ability that doesnt produce the main Money resorce!!....

HBK..Bret Hart... Charity Cases.. who were lucky to just be in the right place at the right time... enough Said!!!

 

[MisterMondayNight]

No, HBK is not overrated.

As Brain said, Michaels has never been put in the class of huge draws. Now if this were a thread about say Austin being overrated, and you used ability to draw as an argument, then you would have your point.

Unfortunately for you, Michaels has never been put into the class of Hogan/Austin in ability to draw. When people say he is the best, they mean his in-ring work, which he is an easy Top 2, along with his rival Bret Hart, in my humble opinion. Both could tell a story with their matches. Watch Summerslam 1994, the steel cage match, and WM 24, the HBK/Flair match, for perfect examples of story telling. but I digress...

Michaels, not overrated, as he has never been compared to the likes of Hogan/Austin, and he is one of the best in the ring of all time.