Say, We Could Learn Something From That Chap Chris Brown, Knaw'Mean?

[Con T.]

We can learn that the WWE has never been as irrelevant in America as it is right now.

What, did oh expect some poor joke about learning how to treat a lady?

No, while Chris Brown isn't exactly the smartest man alive, he does understand that the WWE is largely irrelevant. No one aside from the diehard fans care about wrestling anymore. Of course, that sounds humerous considering that Wrestlemania is going to draw more money than ever. Of course, that's being headlined by four part timers in the top three matches. And after that.... Then what? After these men leave (and they will, likely soon), who does the WWE have to keep the WWE going? The majority of their main roster is made up of geeks that no one on the streets would recognize.

Let's look at who's left. You have Cena, who is a legitimate star. Cena also has been on top for seven years, roughly the same amount of time Hogan was on time before he became stale and needed a change. Orton is still there, but he's not near the celebrity Cena is. Punk? Please; he seems to get all of his recognition from Twitter wars with absolute morons. The WWE will always be driven by stars, and there are none to be found.

Well, surely they can create some, right? Not the way most stars have been booked. With the hot and cold booking you find in WWE now, no one's getting over unless the WWE decides they must push someone, and fast. Ryder has been killed, because he got over without the WWE's backing. Miz is in the midst of a burial, for... Some reason. If you would tell me WWE plans to competently book someone, maybe they'll be ok, but I doubt I see that happening.

Right now, ratings are sliding, during Mania season. Think about that for a second. And it isn't like they were doing monster numbers before. House show attendance has been down, and there seems to be no buzz for WWE, outside of this Wrestlemania.

Oh, don't get me wrong; Wrestlemania will do great business. But the names that are causing this big business will leave. And when they do, the WWE will have nothing to present to make them seem relevant to anyone that isn't a hardcore fan. When people think WWE, they think of past eras, not this one. And with very few foreseeable stars to come, the WWE is riding a slippery slope to irrelevance.

Looks like Chris Brown may have a point

 

[Con T.]

chris brown is a tard in my opinion who would pass up a good payday anyone?
thought not

Enlightening.

What does accepting a payday have to do with anything? Are you saying Vince is going to keep throwing money at part timers to come back and wrestle? You know what they call that?

They call that a band-aide. It's called such because the WWE doesn't have a better long term solution. It's what Vincr does when he is pretty desperate.

Even if he keeps bringing back part timers, what will thy accomplish?

 

[beccawwenerd]

I am a huge Wrestling fan. I have been watching it since Cena first debuted in 2002, but I must say the show has gotten really stale and the storylines are soooo boring!

The ratings have been bad because no one wants to hear the wrestlers talk for like 30 minutes, they could have used that time for a decent match now its just like a talk show/ soap opera.

They should be focusing on the other roster besides Cena, Punk, Orton annd Triple H. The company is not all about them, I think that all the other wrestlers deserve a spot they are really good.

Maybe if they want to get even more ratings they should have a chris brown and cm punk match at wrestlemania 28 lol. That would be ineresting.

 

[Cats Pajamas]

The original poster makes some interesting points. Before I get started, I'll warn you, my knowledge here is limited. I care as much about Nielssen ratings now as I did when I was four years old. I don't pretend to understand merch sales or buyrates; in fact, I haven't a clue. Here goes anyway...

If you want to tell me that the WWE isn't as popular as it was 30 years ago I'd be hard pressed to argue with you. If you want to tell me more people would recognize Chris Brown than CM Punk; again, the music industry is in mainstream media much more than wrestling is... so I'll go with that too.

Yeah, diehard fans are among the last to really care about wrestling but you can tell from the audiences that they're not the only ones to buy tickets. There are large enough crowds from coast to coast to argue... and there's the international crowds to boot.

In 10 years time, if Ring of Honor, Impact Wrestling, New Japan as well as upstarts like Ring Ka King & Wrestling Revolution have all bit the dust and if WWE isn't taking bids on WrestleMania venues two years in advance... and God willing if I'm still alive... I'll probably be echoing your fears of the largest wrestling company slipping into obscurity. At this time, however, I'd estimate that WWE is turning enough profit to where it shouldn't be shaking in their boots.

P.s. two years ago, I didn't expect WWE to be around for another 30 years. Nowadays, I don't pretend to know anymore nor would I even be able to estimate. Brown's a rambling prick anyway. Good luck and best regards, wrestling fans.

 

[Headman]

I would say wrestling is more relevant than Chris Brown. I didn't know who Chris Brown was until he beat up Rhiana. I know nothing of his music, neither does anybody who doesn't listen to that type of music. Pretty much everyone knows who John Cena and the Rock are. Who the hell knew Chris Brown before his talent for beating up chicks hit the news?

 

[ilapierre]

Chris Brown has a point in general. WWE's wrestling entertainment now is weak compared to the wrestling entertainment of years ago. WWE is wrestling 'light'. These days if you watch wrestling regularly you are pretty much a geek. I feel like a geek whenever I do sit down to watch. Wrestling is full of guys who've gone to university who try to fake an attitude. The guys of the past had real attitude, they weren't groomed. They were just cut out for the business. Today, it's a big business and the wrestlers feel like they have job security and no real threatening reason to do anything out of the ordinary to set themselves apart. When they do, they often look idiotic because no one else is acting original. Brown doesn't say WWE sucks because he hates CM Punk. I thought he was pretty nice about WWE. He could have said a whole lot worse.

As for Chris Brown, who gives a shit what he says? He's a no name in my book. He beat up his girlfriend, that's his claim to fame. As for the OP, I don't agree with him at all. Perhaps ratings are bad lately. I don't follow ratings, ratings have no impact on me the fan. Ratings are for the geekiest of fans who care about the business side of things and feel like they're important. If the geeky wrestling fan isn't on top of the ratings every week, then they're not true smarks like they're hero, the Smark of Smarks CM Punk. I watch once and a while and I've been watching again recently. I personally like what I see. Taker, Trips, Michaels, Jericho, Rock, Orton, Cena, Punk, Bryan, Ziggler..it's pretty good TV minus The Miz and Sheamus. I don't think Brown is an avid watcher who believes WWE sucks recently. I don't think Brown has 'a point' that no one really realized. We should all know by now WWE has been in a funk for years. It's a recession, what else would you expect? Anyway, Brown is an idiot and the OP is an idiot. The whole point of this thread is to wind up all the CM Punk fanboys and have them go on a 'i hate chris brown' rant. Chris Brown is irrelevant. Even though Brown has a point, (i'm sure almost anyone on earth would say the same thing about wrestling in general), WWE being 'stale' isn't 'news'.

 

[SinCityBlitz]

The WWE is so irrelevant that I see football players doing the Cena you can't see me hand gesture all the time. But to be fair some players do the Chris Brown gesture of I am going to beat my woman down.

Seriously though Chris Brown is a turd. The only thing anyone should learn from him is not to beat the woman in your life. His big claim to fame is beating a woman. Is there anything more irrelevant than that?

This thread is a massive fail.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Wrestling isn't irrelevant. I could literally write a (short) book on how fucking ******ed the IWC's logic is when it comes to this.

A) there are more people with TVs now than before so 3% of households now is more people watching than 3% of households in 1995

B) there are more outlets to watch than before

C) football players, basketball players, actors, etc all do pro wrestling gestures, ESPN anchors make promo references all the time when doing highlights

D) Chris Brown isn't relevant, no one knew who he was until he beat a woman

E) The attitude era wasn't as awesome as you thought. there were parental groups set up to destroy the WWF. Old school fans HATED it. Harley race started his own indy promotion so that "you could bring your grandma to a show and not be embarrassed". Basically, the Attitude Era was Jersey Shore, hugely successful, but a joke to anyone who wasn't white trash.

F) The current era doesn't suck as much as you think. The business is getting a LOT more respected. I watched the Scott hall E:60 documentary. They said "wrestlers today are more likely to be addicted to XBOX than drugs and alcohol but in the 1990s it was sex drugs and rock 'n' roll". In other words "they are a respectable company with responsible human being now".

So yea, take your typical IWC doomsaying out of here. It gets old. This isn't opinionated. WHen I said the attitude era wasn't as awesoem as you thought I meant from a company standpoint. It wasn't sustainable because it became more and more of a joke to the majority of people. It wasn't geared towards adults, it was geared towards teens and white trash. When I say today isn't as badass you think, I mean from a company perspective. Less and less people think of "blood, beer, and boobs" when they think of wrestling. They think of a more family-friendly product. Which is what it should be if they want long term success.

Here's another fact for you. Raw is consistently a top 3 cable show in it's timeslot.....YEAR ROUND. Name any other show ever that has done that. There aren't any. WWE draws more in live attendance each year than pretty much any pro sports team. WWE is also a niche product. What they do is incredible.

 

[sjdigitall]

Wrestling isn't irrelevant. I could literally write a (short) book on how fucking ******ed the IWC's logic is when it comes to this.

A) there are more people with TVs now than before so 3% of households now is more people watching than 3% of households in 1995

B) there are more outlets to watch than before

C) football players, basketball players, actors, etc all do pro wrestling gestures, ESPN anchors make promo references all the time when doing highlights

D) Chris Brown isn't relevant, no one knew who he was until he beat a woman

E) The attitude era wasn't as awesome as you thought. there were parental groups set up to destroy the WWF. Old school fans HATED it. Harley race started his own indy promotion so that "you could bring your grandma to a show and not be embarrassed". Basically, the Attitude Era was Jersey Shore, hugely successful, but a joke to anyone who wasn't white trash.

F) The current era doesn't suck as much as you think. The business is getting a LOT more respected. I watched the Scott hall E:60 documentary. They said "wrestlers today are more likely to be addicted to XBOX than drugs and alcohol but in the 1990s it was sex drugs and rock 'n' roll". In other words "they are a respectable company with responsible human being now".

So yea, take your typical IWC doomsaying out of here. It gets old. This isn't opinionated. WHen I said the attitude era wasn't as awesoem as you thought I meant from a company standpoint. It wasn't sustainable because it became more and more of a joke to the majority of people. It wasn't geared towards adults, it was geared towards teens and white trash. When I say today isn't as badass you think, I mean from a company perspective. Less and less people think of "blood, beer, and boobs" when they think of wrestling. They think of a more family-friendly product. Which is what it should be if they want long term success.

Here's another fact for you. Raw is consistently a top 3 cable show in it's timeslot.....YEAR ROUND. Name any other show ever that has done that. There aren't any. WWE draws more in live attendance each year than pretty much any pro sports team. WWE is also a niche product. What they do is incredible.

And this is my biggest pet peeve with some know-it-all idiots on this forum. Saying that the attitude era, which was the most successful era ever is crap. Get off your high horse, so you're saying the most profitable time in pro-wrestling was a joke? So stars like The Rock, Austin, HHH, Taker, Jericho , all made during that era were jokes? Geez show some respect man, it was not just "blood, beers and boobs". It had some of the greatest talent pool ever assembled under a promotion, crowds that were going nuts for everything (low-card, mid-card, mainevent), wrestlers who just oozed charisma. Get off your high horse man.

 

[grantedisme]

And this is my biggest pet peeve with some know-it-all idiots on this forum. Saying that the attitude era, which was the most successful era ever is crap. Get off your high horse, so you're saying the most profitable time in pro-wrestling was a joke? So stars like The Rock, Austin, HHH, Taker, Jericho , all made during that era were jokes? Geez show some respect man, it was not just "blood, beers and boobs". It had some of the greatest talent pool ever assembled under a promotion, crowds that were going nuts for everything (low-card, mid-card, mainevent), wrestlers who just oozed charisma. Get off your high horse man.

I think you may have misunderstood him. He pointed out that the attitude era was hugely successful, but he pointed out that Jersey Shore is hugely successful, too. It may not have been a joke to you or me, who enjoy it, but to most Americans, it was.

Even as a kid in middle school and high school, I remember denying that I watched WWF to save face around some friends. Years later, my dad mentioned that he did similarly at his workplace (there are just some things that you probably shouldn't share). That's not to say that The Rock, Austin, HHH, Taker, or Jericho are jokes. The era itself has nothing to do with the talent. They did everything they could to get themselves over during the time period, and I'm sure that people with their talent would be able to do the same during any era. They are all fantastic talents that flourished during the Attitude Era, but the era itself was trashy.

It was the Era itself that I have trouble respecting in hindsight. Almost every diva feud featured a bra and panties match at some point (or mud wrestling), drugs (including but not limited to steroids) and alcohol were reportedly at an all-time high within the industry, and people actually wrapped a wooden bat with barbwire and hit each other with it. Do you understand how ridiculous that last part sounds to most people?

Now, I had about as much fun as anyone watching these poor guys destroy their bodies, but can you really not see how all of that looks from the perspective of someone who doesn't watch regularly?

Again, I enjoyed the era personally. I had fun watching the talent, many of the matches were very good, and I don't think it necessarily made me a worse person or anything crazy like that. However, objectively speaking, the attitude era seems trashy, and I think that's what the guy you quoted meant.

 

[sjdigitall]

I think you may have misunderstood him. He pointed out that the attitude era was hugely successful, but he pointed out that Jersey Shore is hugely successful, too. It may not have been a joke to you or me, who enjoy it, but to most Americans, it was.

Even as a kid in middle school and high school, I remember denying that I watched WWF to save face around some friends. Years later, my dad mentioned that he did similarly at his workplace (there are just some things that you probably shouldn't share). That's not to say that The Rock, Austin, HHH, Taker, or Jericho are jokes. The era itself has nothing to do with the talent. They did everything they could to get themselves over during the time period, and I'm sure that people with their talent would be able to do the same during any era. They are all fantastic talents that flourished during the Attitude Era, but the era itself was trashy.

It was the Era itself that I have trouble respecting in hindsight. Almost every diva feud featured a bra and panties match at some point (or mud wrestling), drugs (including but not limited to steroids) and alcohol were reportedly at an all-time high within the industry, and people actually wrapped a wooden bat with barbwire and hit each other with it. Do you understand how ridiculous that last part sounds to most people?

Now, I had about as much fun as anyone watching these poor guys destroy their bodies, but can you really not see how all of that looks from the perspective of someone who doesn't watch regularly?

Again, I enjoyed the era personally. I had fun watching the talent, many of the matches were very good, and I don't think it necessarily made me a worse person or anything crazy like that. However, objectively speaking, the attitude era seems trashy, and I think that's what the guy you quoted meant.

Heres where i disagree with you, the era was great but labelling it trashy is not fair. Sure it had things that pushed boundaries but i believe it was a time where wwe connected with an audience, with society, which at the time was very rebellious, people were sick of the cookie cutter crap we were being served up in our society, wwe captured the imagination of the society and ran with it.In my opinion what pro wrestling boils down to is connecting with your audience. Im not sure which highschool or workplace your family were at but back in those days EVERYONE was talking about wrestling. If anything its probably more embarassing these days to talk about it with friends or workmates. It was some of the best times in wrestling and labelling them as trashy or a joke really just shows how stupid some of you are.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

And this is my biggest pet peeve with some know-it-all idiots on this forum. Saying that the attitude era, which was the most successful era ever is crap. Get off your high horse, so you're saying the most profitable time in pro-wrestling was a joke? So stars like The Rock, Austin, HHH, Taker, Jericho , all made during that era were jokes? Geez show some respect man, it was not just "blood, beers and boobs". It had some of the greatest talent pool ever assembled under a promotion, crowds that were going nuts for everything (low-card, mid-card, mainevent), wrestlers who just oozed charisma. Get off your high horse man.

Uh....yea, it WAS a joke. Donno how many times teachers in class would tell kids wearing wrestling shirts how trashy the TV show was, or how many TV specials my mom made me watch so I knew NOT to act like pro wrestlers. Jersey Shore is a fucking joke. It's also highly successful. Jerry Springer is a joke, also highly successful.

It wasn't the greatest talent pool ever assembled. If Val Venis couldn't be a pornstar, Sable doesn't show tits, and Godfather isn't a pimp, how over do you think they get? They had some incredibly talented people, but don't kid yourself because that was your golden era as a little mark. Blood, boobs, and cussing are all cheap pops and that was the attitude era's bread and butter. Shit man the guy below you who is DEFENDING you says that they won't get a dime from him unless they "go back to blood and chairshots".

Here's the thing most of you don't get. the attitude era is NOT profitable in the long run. Why? Guys get hurt, guys DIE, bad publicity everywhere. Think about this, Jerry Springer and South Park both came along at about the same time. Springer was pure trash Tv, South Park has a point most of the time. Which is still pretty popular? In 10 years will Jersey Shore still be on? No, it won't be. Trash TV sells in the short run, but not the long run. You guys are upset that the WWE is protecting it's image and their talent? How dumb are you?

"So you enjoyed the Attitude Era but didnt have enough to spine to admit it to friends and family???

Do you think that just maybe pro wrestling hasnt been mainstream because of cowardly actions like this?

If you like something, be it Pokemon or Pro Wrestling or whatever maybe you should have enough guts to be yourself and say so. In the attitude era my friends and I ALL loved watching Raw and if you werent down with that??

SUCK IT!!!!!!!! "

You have no idea how dumb you sound. first off, no, if someone walks up to me and says they are a proud Jersey Shore fan, I literally think less of them as a human being. A lot of people did that to wrestling fans. I wore shirts and defended pro wrestling, but I didnt' talk about it to people I didn't know because I didn't want to go through the 15 minute conversation "you know it's fake right" or "o, that crude stuff?".

Way to not sound like a white trash idiot "if ya don't like the rasslins like me and mah buddies, we gots two words fer yuh, SUCK IT". You have just displayed the EXACT behavior that turned sooooooooo many people off of wrestling in the attitude era. It just so happens, that it also turned other people (people like you) on to the product.

labeling the Tude era as trash TV isn't dumb. It's what it was. What sold it? Violence, alcohol, and sex. Hmmm......

It's not more embarrassing to talk about wrestling now than it was then. It's always been seen as something dumb rednecks watch. The difference is that I can actually defend it now. Have any idea how many people have told me "how can CM Punk hate Chris Brown when they piledrive women on their show?" Then I say "actually they haven't done that in about 10 years, they are really striving towards a more family oriented product". To which they STFU. Or I get asked "yea but it's really violent and that one Benoit guy killed his family" to which I say "actually they haven't been that way in about 5 years, they have restrictions in now and they see doctors more often. They actually care about their talent now". To which they STFU.

See what I mean? The product today is NOT anymore or less embarrassing than it was before. If anything, it should be more acceptable because the company itself is more self aware and more of an actual company. The programming is still near the top in ratings year round and they actually take care of (well more than ever) of their talent health wise.

 

[sjdigitall]

Uh....yea, it WAS a joke. Donno how many times teachers in class would tell kids wearing wrestling shirts how trashy the TV show was, or how many TV specials my mom made me watch so I knew NOT to act like pro wrestlers. Jersey Shore is a fucking joke. It's also highly successful. Jerry Springer is a joke, also highly successful.

It wasn't the greatest talent pool ever assembled. If Val Venis couldn't be a pornstar, Sable doesn't show tits, and Godfather isn't a pimp, how over do you think they get? They had some incredibly talented people, but don't kid yourself because that was your golden era as a little mark. Blood, boobs, and cussing are all cheap pops and that was the attitude era's bread and butter. Shit man the guy below you who is DEFENDING you says that they won't get a dime from him unless they "go back to blood and chairshots".

Here's the thing most of you don't get. the attitude era is NOT profitable in the long run. Why? Guys get hurt, guys DIE, bad publicity everywhere. Think about this, Jerry Springer and South Park both came along at about the same time. Springer was pure trash Tv, South Park has a point most of the time. Which is still pretty popular? In 10 years will Jersey Shore still be on? No, it won't be. Trash TV sells in the short run, but not the long run. You guys are upset that the WWE is protecting it's image and their talent? How dumb are you?

"So you enjoyed the Attitude Era but didnt have enough to spine to admit it to friends and family???

Do you think that just maybe pro wrestling hasnt been mainstream because of cowardly actions like this?

If you like something, be it Pokemon or Pro Wrestling or whatever maybe you should have enough guts to be yourself and say so. In the attitude era my friends and I ALL loved watching Raw and if you werent down with that??

SUCK IT!!!!!!!! "

You have no idea how dumb you sound. first off, no, if someone walks up to me and says they are a proud Jersey Shore fan, I literally think less of them as a human being. A lot of people did that to wrestling fans. I wore shirts and defended pro wrestling, but I didnt' talk about it to people I didn't know because I didn't want to go through the 15 minute conversation "you know it's fake right" or "o, that crude stuff?".

Way to not sound like a white trash idiot "if ya don't like the rasslins like me and mah buddies, we gots two words fer yuh, SUCK IT". You have just displayed the EXACT behavior that turned sooooooooo many people off of wrestling in the attitude era. It just so happens, that it also turned other people (people like you) on to the product.

labeling the Tude era as trash TV isn't dumb. It's what it was. What sold it? Violence, alcohol, and sex. Hmmm......

It's not more embarrassing to talk about wrestling now than it was then. It's always been seen as something dumb rednecks watch. The difference is that I can actually defend it now. Have any idea how many people have told me "how can CM Punk hate Chris Brown when they piledrive women on their show?" Then I say "actually they haven't done that in about 10 years, they are really striving towards a more family oriented product". To which they STFU. Or I get asked "yea but it's really violent and that one Benoit guy killed his family" to which I say "actually they haven't been that way in about 5 years, they have restrictions in now and they see doctors more often. They actually care about their talent now". To which they STFU.

See what I mean? The product today is NOT anymore or less embarrassing than it was before. If anything, it should be more acceptable because the company itself is more self aware and more of an actual company. The programming is still near the top in ratings year round and they actually take care of (well more than ever) of their talent health wise.

so let me get this straight.. Rock Vs Austin at Wrestlemania 17, a match that defined that era, quite possibly one of the best matches of all time.. is a joke? Man look straight up calling that era trashy just shows how much you know about wrestling. Its like saying this era we are in is crap because it's PG and kiddy. Which is ridiculous because its not crap, we've seen some pretty great stuff recently. You just seem to take the most simple-minded view of that era and to me that just shows how stupid you are.

 

[ProWrestlingFan]

Uh....yea, it WAS a joke. Donno how many times teachers in class would tell kids wearing wrestling shirts how trashy the TV show was, or how many TV specials my mom made me watch so I knew NOT to act like pro wrestlers. Jersey Shore is a fucking joke. It's also highly successful. Jerry Springer is a joke, also highly successful.

It wasn't the greatest talent pool ever assembled. If Val Venis couldn't be a pornstar, Sable doesn't show tits, and Godfather isn't a pimp, how over do you think they get? They had some incredibly talented people, but don't kid yourself because that was your golden era as a little mark. Blood, boobs, and cussing are all cheap pops and that was the attitude era's bread and butter. Shit man the guy below you who is DEFENDING you says that they won't get a dime from him unless they "go back to blood and chairshots".

Here's the thing most of you don't get. the attitude era is NOT profitable in the long run. Why? Guys get hurt, guys DIE, bad publicity everywhere. Think about this, Jerry Springer and South Park both came along at about the same time. Springer was pure trash Tv, South Park has a point most of the time. Which is still pretty popular? In 10 years will Jersey Shore still be on? No, it won't be. Trash TV sells in the short run, but not the long run. You guys are upset that the WWE is protecting it's image and their talent? How dumb are you?

"So you enjoyed the Attitude Era but didnt have enough to spine to admit it to friends and family???

Do you think that just maybe pro wrestling hasnt been mainstream because of cowardly actions like this?

If you like something, be it Pokemon or Pro Wrestling or whatever maybe you should have enough guts to be yourself and say so. In the attitude era my friends and I ALL loved watching Raw and if you werent down with that??

SUCK IT!!!!!!!! "

You have no idea how dumb you sound. first off, no, if someone walks up to me and says they are a proud Jersey Shore fan, I literally think less of them as a human being. A lot of people did that to wrestling fans. I wore shirts and defended pro wrestling, but I didnt' talk about it to people I didn't know because I didn't want to go through the 15 minute conversation "you know it's fake right" or "o, that crude stuff?".

Way to not sound like a white trash idiot "if ya don't like the rasslins like me and mah buddies, we gots two words fer yuh, SUCK IT". You have just displayed the EXACT behavior that turned sooooooooo many people off of wrestling in the attitude era. It just so happens, that it also turned other people (people like you) on to the product.

labeling the Tude era as trash TV isn't dumb. It's what it was. What sold it? Violence, alcohol, and sex. Hmmm......

It's not more embarrassing to talk about wrestling now than it was then. It's always been seen as something dumb rednecks watch. The difference is that I can actually defend it now. Have any idea how many people have told me "how can CM Punk hate Chris Brown when they piledrive women on their show?" Then I say "actually they haven't done that in about 10 years, they are really striving towards a more family oriented product". To which they STFU. Or I get asked "yea but it's really violent and that one Benoit guy killed his family" to which I say "actually they haven't been that way in about 5 years, they have restrictions in now and they see doctors more often. They actually care about their talent now". To which they STFU.

See what I mean? The product today is NOT anymore or less embarrassing than it was before. If anything, it should be more acceptable because the company itself is more self aware and more of an actual company. The programming is still near the top in ratings year round and they actually take care of (well more than ever) of their talent health wise.

You are absolutely dumb and calling the Greatest Era "The Attitude Era" a joke shows how much you know about Wrestling. That Era and the "Ruthless Aggression Era" which WWE had till 2006 produced some of the greatest Wrestling matches and the ratings prove that.

You are one of those dumb fans who think that being a "PG" or a "Golden Era" mark makes you look good whereas you are showing you know shit about Wrestling.

WWE is just PG because right now they have no competition. If there was a competition like WCW for the WWE than WWE will go the same route because thats what increase viewers.

BTW divas etc still wear revealing costumes just like they did in the Attitude Era so your point is mock you dumb "Golden Era PG mark".

 

[Suibon]

ProWrestlingFan:

Looking only and intently at ratings as a raison d'etre, as a justification of the Attitude era not being trash, as a reason for the WWE to return to the good old days of blood and gore and shit -- that's narrow thinking, isn't it?

Maybe more people watched the shows then, as the ratings illustrate (maybe) - but what of it, if parental watchdogs and politicians and even former wrestlers are breathing down your neck, decrying your company and its doings as an abomination for more or less the same set of reasons? Would you really want to trade this era, even with all its flaws (and there are many of them), for one with that many obstacles, with the world itching to scratch you off?
​

 

[mb47]

WWE isn't irrelevant in the slightest. It's still popular, it still draws and seeing as they're big on social networking just look how many Trending Topics to do with WWE or the stars while there is a show on.

The problem is purely in the lack of star power.

80's - Hogan, Flair, Macho Man, Jake Roberts, Ultimate Warrior
90's - Stone Cold, The Rock, Undertaker, HBK, Triple H
00's - John Cena

It goes without saying that the star power has dropped significantly. I could have given you 10 more names for both the 80's and 90's but the 00's you can't even make a decent list of 5 people.

Furthering from that there is the problem that as wrestling grew and you had the internet beginning things changed. The 4th wall got torn down and we the fans were able to see past the mystique of pro wrestling and see who these people really were, where they came from, what they're like out of the ring and it makes it harder to create these stars.

In the past you had that allure of only seeing someone as their character, not as them and without that around now it changes everything and makes WWE seem irrelevant because there isn't as many names that non-wrestling fans know as there used to be. The allure has simply been destroyed.

As far as Chris Brown goes; Not trying to defend him but he was relevant before beating on Rihanna. Before beating her he already had 2 albums in the top 5 of the Billboard 200. He was already known. If you're not a rap, hip-hop or R&B fan then of course he will be irrelevant to you.

For all who have posted and all who will I'd like to point out Brown, who is not a wrestling fan right now, says it is irrelevant. You are trying to argue it isn't while saying Brown himself is irrelevant. That's a contradiction and makes you all hypocrites. Practice what you preach in future and you won't all seem like total morons!

 

[Twocenter]

You are absolutely dumb and calling the Greatest Era "The Attitude Era" a joke shows how much you know about Wrestling. That Era and the "Ruthless Aggression Era" which WWE had till 2006 produced some of the greatest Wrestling matches and the ratings prove that.

You are one of those dumb fans who think that being a "PG" or a "Golden Era" mark makes you look good whereas you are showing you know shit about Wrestling.

WWE is just PG because right now they have no competition. If there was a competition like WCW for the WWE than WWE will go the same route because thats what increase viewers.

BTW divas etc still wear revealing costumes just like they did in the Attitude Era so your point is mock you dumb "Golden Era PG mark".

Shut the hell up! YOU are the one who knows NOTHING about wrestling. I know attitude era was FUN but that was no where near being the best. Attitude era is just like PG-Era. Attitude era was directed towards youth and I doubt many children and women watched those violent and rash stuffs they put during that tenure. The matches were great but the overall product was suitable for 18-30 ONLY. PG-Era is directed towards children and women. They make children friendly products because parents won't allow 12 year old children to see guys bad mouthing each other or women flashing boobs like ****s. Don't you think children can impersonate them? Are you dumb? You will know that when you GROW up and become a parent. Will you allow your 12 year old child to see a program based on violence and sex? If you do, you will be the most incoherent human being on the planet.

WWE is PG now because it brings them money. They are earning more $$$ than they did during the attitude era. Why would they throw away the $$$? And how stupid of you attitude era marks! You want that old WASHED up thing again? LOL Get a life. Attitude era was nothing special and if you want to see era defining matches watch HBK vs Bret Hart and Stone Cold vs Bret Hart and that was before the Attitude era.

Now onto the topic:

Who the hell is Chris Brown? I had never heard his name before I came across the news of him beating a woman. That shows what kind of loser he really is. He has a VA*INA! Chris Brown and WWE are two different things. Chris needs to continue his music career and beat up some more women and rot in jail while WWE needs to put on shows that entertains us. He cannot do any good other than pick up on girls.

 

[Hulkamania]

Shut the hell up! YOU are the one who knows NOTHING about wrestling. I know attitude era was FUN but that was no where near being the best. Attitude era is just like PG-Era. Attitude era was directed towards youth and I doubt many children and women watched those violent and rash stuffs they put during that tenure. The matches were great but the overall product was suitable for 18-30 ONLY. PG-Era is directed towards children and women. They make children friendly products because parents won't allow 12 year old children to see guys bad mouthing each other or women flashing boobs like ****s. Don't you think children can impersonate them? Are you dumb? You will know that when you GROW up and become a parent. Will you allow your 12 year old child to see a program based on violence and sex? If you do, you will be the most incoherent human being on the planet.

WWE is PG now because it brings them money. They are earning more $$$ than they did during the attitude era. Why would they throw away the $$$? And how stupid of you attitude era marks! You want that old WASHED up thing again? LOL Get a life. Attitude era was nothing special and if you want to see era defining matches watch HBK vs Bret Hart and Stone Cold vs Bret Hart and that was before the Attitude era.

Now onto the topic:

Who the hell is Chris Brown? I had never heard his name before I came across the news of him beating a woman. That shows what kind of loser he really is. He has a VA*INA! Chris Brown and WWE are two different things. Chris needs to continue his music career and beat up some more women and rot in jail while WWE needs to put on shows that entertains us. He cannot do any good other than pick up on girls.

never heard of Chris Brown before that????? ooookaaaaaayyyyyy lamooo he was one of the most famous, notable and recognized artists in the U.S.

Attitude era was nothing special??? ooookaaaayyyy It's often referred to by management, wrestlers and fans as a golden era in WWE

That being said, I agree its all about money for WWE and their PG product is working for them, especially with no competition right now smh

 

[Champ1432]

Relevance can be a tough thing to judge, because it depends partially on one's own likes and dislikes. Overall, I would say Chris Brown would be a little more relevant than pro wrestling right now. I'm no fan of hip hop or R&B, but I had at least heard of Brown before his incident with Rihanna. Not defending him at all, I think what he did was awful, but he was at least slightly well-known before his indiscretion. That's not to say pro wrestling is completely irrelevant these days either. As others have pointed out, there are still references made to pro wrestling in some areas of pop culture, mostly the sports world. Is it as relevant as it was in the Attituda Era? I think you have to make the distinction between "relevant" and "infamous" to answer that.

I think there were more people talking about wrestling during the Attitude Era, but not always in a good way. There is the argument that all publicity is good publicity, but I don't think anyone can really argue that a lot, if not most, of the attention that pro wrestling got in mainstream media during the AE was negative.

As others have mentioned, the increase in violence, language, and sex appeal on WWF programming during the AE had many critics, and gave rise to many groups like the PTC decrying what was being put forth every Monday and Thursday night. So while it got more attention than it does now, it wasn't necessarily positive attention.

This is not to say the AE was not entertaining, it certainly was. There were some huge stars coming into their own during that era, and yes, there was great wrestling in there as well. No one is saying that there was no great legitmate wrestling going on during that time. Some of the most memorable matches ever came from the AE. But the overall atmosphere and theme during that time was one that appealed to the lowest common denominator. Much like the programs of today that have been discussed, such as Jersey Shore and Jerry Springer, it was basically trash TV because it just pandered to everyone's base desires for blood and sex and scandal. That's not to say it wasn't entertaining or one of the best times in the business. It was all of that. To continue it or attempt to restart it now would not be good for the long term health of WWE or wrestling in general, however. As much of an outcry as there was back then, it would only grow and get stronger the longer that kind of programming continued. Think about a program like Springer. It's still going, but is it anywhere near as popular as it was in the late 90's? Not close. It's been marginalized, and the same thing would have happened to WWE if it had continued with the AE. It would be LESS popular than it is now, not more.

Could WWE be more entertaining at times? Have they gotten a little stale recently? Sure. But the road to increased relevance does not go through another Attitude Era.

 

[nellyismyname]

Look I have never really been a Chris Brown fan, I mean I do like his songs Kiss Kiss and Forever which came out in 2007, but other then that I never really could get into his music.But to say he was not revelant before the Rihanna incendent is going too far.His first song called "Run It' reached number #1 on the billboard hot 100 single charts and his debut album sold 3 Million worldwide and the album had three top 10 singles.His second album sold 1.9 million and had three top charting singles.He was called the next R&B superstar and people even compared him to Usher and Michael Jackson.I have two younger sisters and before the incedent with Rihanna them and alot of the girls who went to school with them were big Chris Brown fans. Now I am not saying he was ever as popular as Micahel Jackson or Madonna, but he was pretty much an A List R&B singer because everyone I knew knew about Chris Brown.Chris Brown is pretty much scum but he has always been a popular music artist. Now as for the WWE is concerned the WWE is still one of the most watched shows on cable tv but it is no where near as popular as it was in 2000 or earlier.

 

[Con T.]

So, this is how we deal with the patently obvious fact that WWE is sliding into obscurity? We all cry, with a fervent passion, fuck Chris Brown?

Perhaps I shouldn't have said anything about Chris Brown. Though, it is humerous to think he got half the world to wonder who the fuck the WWE champion actually is. But the point of this whole thing is that the WWE, right now, has no relevance in America. Practically no one cares about wrestling; people have been abadoning the WWE for about a decade now. But, in the past, at least the WWE had stars on their roster to keep people somewhat interested.

Now? There are two legitimate full time stars that people care about. Only one of those stars gets any publicity from the mainstream. As much as we may not like to think this, CM Punk is not a star name. And with the way that WWE is booking the supposed future of the company, there aren't going to be any stars around when Cena and Orton get injured, stale, or retire. They had chances with guys like the Miz, but the WWE has absolutely buried him by cutting his push from the legs. Same can be said for so many people; Wade Barrett, Dolph Ziggler, Jack Swagger, Del Rio, I can really keep this going forever. The only person that seems to be getting a sustained push is Sheamus, and god knows when they'll decide to pull the plug on him.

If ya wanna bash Chris Brown, fine. I think the guys an asshole myself. But the fact that he can draw so many people to laugh and mock the WWE is somewhat telling. The WWE has to searching for media relevance, crying desperately to keep their wrestlers trending on Twitter and watch their YouTube clips; he doesn't. The problem is, in a star driven business like the WWE, there are only three full time people that we can point to and say, "he's a star". Out of those three, only one gets any recognition from the media. This isn't a thread to bash Chris Brown; this is a thread to address the fact that no one outside the die hard fans gives a fuck about the WWE

 

[mikekinkade]

Want to know what we can learn from Chris Brown? I will tell you.

Chris Brown beat the crap out of a woman, yet many female fans still adore him...even though just as many hate his guts.

Sound familiar?

The attitude era offended scores of people, yet it still had many fans. Vince for a while didn't care that people got offended.

The WWE now cares about offending people, Chris Brown doesn't.

Who is more relevant to mainstream America? Please don't answer WWE, you would be wrong.

Does anybody know why people boo John Cena even though he is a face? It's because even as a face, he still manages to piss people off more then any of the top heels. The major problem with the WWE is they can't create heels that people legitimately don't like. Maybe there is something else we can learn from Chris Brown.

 

[Loveless Chulita]

I haven't posted here in yearssssss but I still drop by every now and then to read everyone's thoughts.

I have to throw in my two cents as an on again/off again viewer of WWE TV. I used to be an hardcore wrestling fan from 1989-2001? Then I stopped watching due to college and viewed it here and there. I started watching it again around 2008, then stopped again and.. so forth and so forth. I go to any live shows they have in St. Louis because hey, I live here and they're here, might as well but I couldn't tell you who has the belt at all. I will admit I'm evening travelling to Miami for WM 28 this year but it's only for The Rock. I can go without watching wrestling for years and not care but what can I not do? I can not get in my car without listening to the radio.


When I first heard of the twitter debate it was through an email from the local radio station here and I had to read the heading twice that CM PUNK and CHRIS BROWN (had to put it in caps because I was so in shock over the whole ordeal) were twitter battling so it piqued my interest. I watched CM Punk's video and laughed out loud at his statement of donating money to a women's shelter but in all honesty.... I felt Chris Brown's point was made. I can't go a day without listening to music but I can go without wrestling for years. You may argue you've never heard Chris Brown's music but hey, that's because he may be in a genre you don't listen to however more people can still point out Chris Brown vs CM Punk and this is prior to the scandal that's surrounding him.

In the end, I do think that wrestling isn't as popular as it is now, after WM then what?
It's hyped now and I believe more of it is due to the "old heads" wrestling vs the new kids because honestly I can't even tell you who else will be participating in WM other than HHH, The Undertaker, The Rock, Chris Jericho, John Cena, CM Punk, and Sheamus and the only reason I know Sheamus is in it is because I attended the Royal Rumble. I do think WWE needs to reinvent themselves or do something to stay fresh because I do believe after the WM Raw.. they're ratings will decline again.

 

[AwesomeRko]

I actually agree and think you make some really valid points. WWE is quite simply not creating the same level of stars as it was a decade ago. I believe the talent is there with guys like Ziggler, Rhodes and Miz but the problem resides with bad booking. In the past WWE used their top marquee stars to help create new stars, one of the prime reasons they triumphed over WCW. Nowadays however it seems that the younger guys who show potential are built upto a point, given a brief stint in the main event schooled and made to look weak by Punk or Cena (Orton has been terrific on SD recently putting people over) and reside in the upper mid-card until needed in the main event again.

This was noted most recently in Ziggler's brief run at main-event fame where he was basically booked as Punk's bitch, he couldn't beat him in spite of massive help form JL, Miz dropping the title to Cena where he basically lost a handicap I Quit match and his subsequent fall to mid-card siberia. Compare this to guys like Taker, Rock and Foley putting over a multitude of younger talent often losing clean and losing fueds overall to help escalate incoming stars like Lesnar, Jeff Hardy, Y2J and Angle onto the next level.

The problem is WWE is so fixated and reliant upon Cena, Orton and now to an extent Punk to carry the program that they seem to feel the need to make them look strong at every turn, not realising that an air of vulnerability and the odd loss does a superstar at their level no harm at all. In fact Cena would garner a lot less hate if he would actually just lose clean every now and again. This is why the WWE is becoming so reliant on stars from the past to carry this years mania buyrate.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

so let me get this straight.. Rock Vs Austin at Wrestlemania 17, a match that defined that era, quite possibly one of the best matches of all time.. is a joke? Man look straight up calling that era trashy just shows how much you know about wrestling. Its like saying this era we are in is crap because it's PG and kiddy. Which is ridiculous because its not crap, we've seen some pretty great stuff recently. You just seem to take the most simple-minded view of that era and to me that just shows how stupid you are.

Awesome dude, that's one fuckin match. Not only that, but look at the ratings before WMX7, they had fallen quite a bit since their ratings peak in late 1999 or 2000 I believe it was. HUGE drop off actually. Still high ratings, but not in relation to their peak. Anyways, let's see, Val Venis, porn star, trashy. Godfather with hoes, trashy. Austin spilling cheap beer all over himself and flipping the bird, trashy. Constant cussing, mostly for no real reason, trashy. Sable, trashy. Mae Young birthing a hand, trashy. "Choppy choppy pee pee" trashy. Crotch chops, trashy. "lets get ready to suck it" trashy. It's not a simple minded view. There were a few great matches.....like twice a year in 1998 and 1999, then in 2000 when the radicalz came and shit it got a lot better. However, I DARE YOU to go back and watch 1998-1999 Raw (ratings peaks) and then tell me it's not a trashy show. The trashiness is what made it popular though. People like trash TV, ask Jersey Shore, Jerry Springer, Teen Mom, etc.

Here's something from an outsider. http://www.drpolitics.com/articles/professional_wrestling.htm
Hmmm "I have another pernicious force to suggest: professional wrestling. The epitome of violence, sadomasochism, and sleaze, professional wrestling is trash TV for ugly Americans."

Oh, and " "Stone Cold" Steve Austin--the top attraction of the WWF--is best known for extending his middle finger during matches and interviews."

Oh, and "Wrestling is overtly misogynist. Between matches, scantily-clad women parade around the ring. Women grapplers are subject to "after-hours wrestling" (a version of the Hollywood casting couch). Sable, wrestling's biggest female star, recently settled a lawsuit against the WWF, in which she alleged that the business "had become so obscene and so vulgar" that she no longer wishes to be a part of it."

Oh, and "Martha Hart, Owen's widow, has initiated a 46-count lawsuit against the WWF, contending that "professional wrestling has become a showy display of graphic violence, sexual themes, and dangerous stunts."

So yea, choke on that fuckhead. A MAJORITY OF PEOPLE thought it was trash TV. Published March of 2000.

Here's another http://www.blackchampagne.com/reviews/tv-jerry-springer.shtml

With " I never used to watch TV, and especially not any trash TV. Not since I was about 11 and living in Texas and was briefly amused by the antics of pro wrestling." He uses pro wrestling=trash tv as if it's COMMON KNOWLEDGE. That's how the rest of the world sees it and it sees in in large part because of the attitude era. Notice how almost immediately after that statement, he also references Jerry Springer.

Definition of trash TV http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/trash+television
Hmm, "the broadcasting of television programs featuring violence, profanity, partial nudity, and other vulgar subject matter" sounds like the tude era.

More hilariousness to prove my point and how fucking dumb you are in thinking that the attitude era wasn't trash TV
http://www.truthmagazine.com/archives/volume44/V44012004.htm

Here's something "What is it that makes wrestling so popular? Could it be the cussing? Could it be the immodest clothing? Could it be the total lack of respect for mankind? Yes, all of these sinful activities, as well as others, collide to make the WWF the top-rated program in America"

Something else "Professional wrestling has gone from “wholesome entertainment” to “sinful garbage!” "

Now, granted the guy who wrote it was a bit overly religious, but it's still definately an opinion held by many.

In other words, don't get all butt hurt that I said that "the attitude era was so successful because it was trash TV". BECAUSE THAT'S THE TRUTH. Holy shit dude.


YES IT'S FUCKING TRASHY. You people who say "TWJC doesn't know anything, wtf more people watched" are incredibly stupid. I mean, your reasoning and logic skill are practically non existant. Jersey Shore once had higher ratings than a Yankees/Red Sox game WITHIN THE CITY OF NEW YORK. Think about that. It's so popular, that, the greatest baseball rivalry, in the biggest, most rabib (arguable) baseball market, had LESS VIEWERS than Jersey Shore. It can be successful and trashy at the same time. In fact, that's a pretty damn easy way to get high ratings. People like car accidents.




Shit man. Back to the topic. Sorry I had to go on such a tangeant to prove to people that the attitude era, the SAME attitude era that had parental groups damning it and politicians and preachers wanting WWF destroyed, was trash TV and that's what made it so popular. The WWE is NOT irrelevant. When you are YEAR ROUND a top three ratings-getter in your time slot, you aren't irrelevant. When you have cities bidding to host your event, you aren't irrelevant. When you sell something like 3,000,000 tickets to your live events each year, you aren't irrelevant.

The funniest thing is that not only is WWE relevant, but they HAVE BEEN relevant and WILL STAY relevant. Funny that Brown mentioned how it comes and goes in cycles when the same thing happens in the music industry. Before he beat Rhianna, no one really gave a shit. Then they gave a shit. Now again, they really don't give a shit. In 10 years WWE will probablys till be a top 3 ratings getter. In 10 years, Brown will be on VH1's "I used to be famous celebrity rehab".