Samoa Joe: A lost cause?

[My$terio_Fan]

The story of Somoa Joe starts in the indy's. He quickly becomes a popular face to indy lovers. He then joins TNA, bringing all his indy fans with him. He quickly gets an unstoppable "Goldberg" like push.

You couldn't go on to a wrestling forum without hearing about how great Joe is, and how he's the next big thing in wrestling. The man was pushed to the limits and became a force in TNA.

2 years passed and he finally won the big one. He feuded with Angle, he turned heel, then turned face. He mainevented PPV's and was on top of the world. But something seemed missing? It almost seemed as if Joe ran out of steam. He became boring, stale, and his whole character just seemed useless.

The man who was given the "Goldberg" push, failed miserably at recreating the magic Goldberg had. His fans still blame TNA/Creative/Angle/God anyone they can about Joe going down hill. But really for whatever reason Joe failed.

Does that mean he;s a lost cause? Or do you still believe Joe will be the main player one day? Has he lost his spark, or will Tazz breath new life into the once most promising stars?

 

[RageBattle]

Concerning his push, I don't think it went anywhere. It was great to see him get it and try to be the next big thing. I DO blame creative, but that aside, isn't it speculated that he and Tazz could or will turn on the MEM? I sense another push, and I hope he gets pushed in the right direction. I don't think they are ever going to use Tazz from the way things are going, and Joe doesn't need him to get to the top.

 

[SavageTaker]

I think the problem was bad booking. He seemed like an unstoppable force but then they screwed up his character when he finally became the TNA World Champion. It’s like he became and emo pussy. He wasn’t seen or at least I didn’t see him as a guy that everyone on the roster should fear. I think they booked him horribly during his title reign and that’s what apparently made a lot of people think he is a lost cause. I blame it all on bad booking. They had something great going and they messed it up.

Now, I don’t think he is a lost cause anymore. They definitely seem to be making an attempt to make him a main event player for the future. There is no doubt that once the current main eventers that are older leave or retire he is going to be pushed to the top again. They have been doing a good job so far with building him up to what he once was a couple of years ago. But like anything in wrestling, they could easily mess it up as fast as a blink of an eye. I see him having a good future as a main eventer as long as they continue booking him correctly. So no, I don’t think he is a lost cause.

 

[johnnyblaze3:16]

i think he will get a huge push the second all thesse old guys finally go to there retirement home how bout a retirment gauntlet match haveing him and taz turn on mem and challenge them he could put sting,stiener,nash,bookert and then angle all away and into retirment putting him over huge like i mean hogan huge and turn him into the tna goldberg having him hold the title for a few years and give the belt some prestige joe and taz go on a survive if i let you tear

 

[jjhatlanta]

i think he is horrible and should be released. his work is so weak looking especially for an obese 300lb+ guy. he doesn't even look samoan. he looks like a fat italian woman and works like one as well. when will people stop making out like these 'internet stars' are anything more than guys puting themselves over on the net or a few marks that are in love with a few 'fancy'(interpreted puroresu or lucha) moves that these goofs attempt. they never even get them down correctly. it's like the classic 2 spots that these losers always try: move, move, move, move, move, move, double drop kick square off and beg the fans to clap spot. and: move, move, move, move, move, move, move, pin 1,2, roll over, pin 1,2, roll over, pin 1,2, roll over, pin 1,2, roll over, get up, square off, and beg the fans to clap spot. no matter how bad the moves are going the idiots always get up and want the fans to clap. memo to samoa joe: learn to WORK. you cannot just walk around with a mean look on your face.

 

[jrumpi]

1st of all to all the haters that say joe sucks because he is fat , GO TO HELL , so what if he is fat I dare you slim boy to do half of the things he does or bring your hero HHH and put them in a match for 1 Hour and lets see who keeps up and who is gasping for air .

Now that this is out of the way , I believe TNA did there best to push joe time and again but for some reason it didn't work , he has all the tools the talent the fan base and the IT !! But still and his title run was like y2j 1st title run . Now I have lost some interest for joe because he is being sloppy lately but I do believe that if TNA pushes JOE to the limit where they grab him by the ear and tell him go lose wight do this do that he will be on the right track , Joe needs some one like vince just so he can work good . I do believe Joe is the future of TNA with hernandez and aj and morgan . They just need to find there passion .

Even if joe couldn't be the TNA #1 GUY if TNA is smart they should use him as the 2nd (the substitute) the next guy after the number 1 guy .

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I don't think Samoa Joe is a lost cause, but there's no doubt that he's lost momentum since winning the TNA World Championship. I think Samoa Joe is pretty good in the ring, but I don't see the phenom that the indy scene raved about in the past.

Joe is only 30 years old and, barring injuries, has more than enough time to rebuild himself into what the IWC alleges he was several years ago. However, wrestling fans can be a fickle bunch and if Samoa Joe's latest angle with Tazz doesn't pan out the way TNA is hoping, then it could be a real setback for him. I think it's too soon really to call the guy a lost cause. However, if he's essentially where he is now in another 2 or 3 years, then a lost cause label might possibly be fitting.

 

[jjhatlanta]

first off to jrumpi, i didnt say samoa joke sucked because he was fat, i said he sucked because he sucks. he cant work. and if you think that fat tub of goo could hang with hhh, in a 1 hour match you best climb out of your mothers basement and get some fresh air. next you contradict yourself, and say mgmt should grab him by the ear and say "lose some weight". and yes tna did their best to push samoa joke and it failed big time, but what do you expect from an overrated internet star. internet stars and 'indy scene' stars are nothing more than glorified backyard rasslers putting themselves and their buddies over on the net. and tna is a glorified indy promotion along with ring of dishonor and the like. tna with all their 'stars' in their biggest ppv of the year and after 7-8 years of trying and 4-5 years of tv can only manage 7,000 buys. what a jike.

 

[Slyfox696]

I think the problem was bad booking.

Not a chance.

The problem was that he no longer had guys who would bump like fiends for him. Once he got out of the X-Division with guys like Styles, Daniels, Sabin, etc., he was forced to actually work a good match, and not just run roughshod over the roster. When HE actually had to start doing a little bit of selling, and work a more even match, suddenly Joe was no longer half the worker he was before.

The problem wasn't bad booking. The problem was his lack of ability, both in the ring, and on the stick.

1st of all to all the haters that say joe sucks because he is fat , GO TO HELL , so what if he is fat I dare you slim boy to do half of the things he does or bring your hero HHH and put them in a match for 1 Hour and lets see who keeps up and who is gasping for air .

How about I put my hero John Cena there instead? Or my hero Bret Hart? Are you going to tell me that Joe could out work either one of them? Of course note, because then you would just be making an ass out of yourself.

Now that this is out of the way , I believe TNA did there best to push joe time and again but for some reason it didn't work , he has all the tools the talent the fan base and the IT !!

"The IT"?? What the fuck is "the IT"? Joe doesn't have "IT" he has a boring ass promo delivery and an average in-ring workrate. Someone who has "IT" has the ability to make people care about him, whether he looks good or gets beat. Joe doesn't have "IT". Cena has "IT". Hulk Hogan had "IT". Steve Austin had "IT". Samoa Joe doesn't have "IT".

tna with all their 'stars' in their biggest ppv of the year and after 7-8 years of trying and 4-5 years of tv can only manage 7,000 buys. what a jike.

I love the "7,000 buys" argument. Pray tell, how do YOU know how many PPV buys TNA did? Because, last I checked, TNA doesn't release their PPV buys to ANYONE, because they don't have to. Furthermore, from what I hear (from the Wrestling Observer, in case you're wonder), the 7,000 buys line wasn't even CLOSE to the actual number, it was instead a prank that someone pulled.

But, I guess if you read it on the Internet dirt sheets, it must be true right?

 

[newb]

Samoa Joe was great when he started. But then the "Wonderful" magic of no talent hovered over him, and he got boring. Then, after his "Injury" he got fat and lazy, and he just couldn't wrestle. Kind of like a Batista who was once a good wrestler.

 

[jrumpi]

WHAT are you kidding me have you people seriously ever watched any of samoa joes work ? cause it doesn't sound that you did .
1st JOE cant work 1H match LOL HELLO news flash back in ROH all his matches were 1H ! and that he can only work with cruiser wights OMG did you guys seen any of his matches : angel,kobashi,christian. seriously go to youtube lol . The guy has 3 F'N 5 star matches from the news litter where your boy cena cant get 1 . Hey INDI. hater I have a Q for you ok Listen good . When you start as a wrestler where do you start :
A-WWE from the beginning .
B-INDI. SHOWS
C-TNA that fast
D-YOU HAVE NO CLUE
So all INDI. guys suck so that means Y2J sucks so does edge and christian and cm punk and RVD and all the ecw originals cause ECW was like ROH . Dude you are talking SHIT !
Joe is great he is lackey some times , if TNA wants to make him work his butt off they need to help him bring back his passion .

SRY if I offended any 1 but this is a debate and all what I have up there are facts not illusions and if you are still hating go smurf your self .
P.S : Do not hate on the player hate on the game (yes hate on HHH LOL) .

 

[yoshi_doce2006]

Joe can still be a star if he uses some brains with his mean streak and does a better job of selling some of his moves. I think if Taz is taking an active role behind the scenes in Joe's training then he could improve. I know Kevin Nash tried and only had minimal success but I saw Tough Enough and Taz is a different kind of beast when it comes to training someone for wrestling. If anyone can breath life back into Joe's career it is Taz.

Oh, and this thing about Joe working a 1 hour match with guys like Trips, Jericho, Cena, Angle, Styles, or Michaels is bull. He has potential to be pretty damn good but he looks extremely winded after a hard 15-20 minute match, he would never make it an hour.

 

[Slyfox696]

WHAT are you kidding me have you people seriously ever watched any of samoa joes work ?

Yes, just about every week for over the course of several years in fact.

1st JOE cant work 1H match LOL HELLO news flash back in ROH all his matches were 1H !

And they were all boring, what's your point?

and that he can only work with cruiser wights

Not true...I said he could only work with guys who could bump extremely well for him. And given his track record of piss bucket matches with main-eventers, I think that would hold true.

OMG did you guys seen any of his matches : angel,

All but one of the matches sucked, and the one that didn't suck was solid, but no means great.

kobashi

An awful *****fied slap fest. They looked like two girls in there slapping each other like that.

christian

Sucked

The guy has 3 F'N 5 star matches from the news litter where your boy cena cant get 1

There are so many things wrong with this statement:

1) Meltzer's ratings are incredibly biased. If your name is Joe, Hart, Flair, or Japanese, you automatically start with a star and half every match. Never fails. Meltzer would literally get on his knees and start sucking if they gave him the chance. Furthermore, Meltzer is a known mark for any kind of wrestling that supporting makes him different than the common fan. He supported the NWA when the WWF was big, the WWF when WCW was big, and now supports ROH when they're the underdog. It's not even funny anymore how desperate Meltzer is to make people believe he's smart.

2) Only one of those so-called 5 star matches was any good, and that was a match where, ta-da, he had two guys in the ring who are great workers and are willing to bump like hell for him (Styles and Daniels). Which, if I remember correctly, is what I said earlier. The match with Punk was, at best, average, but again, Punk is another guy who would take massive bumps for Joe. And the third match? With Kobashi? I've seen better matches with Mr. Kennedy and Carlito than that. Big fucking deal, they stand and slap each other a million times. How is that skill? It's boring and it was stupid. Like if I'm in a real fight, I'm just going to stand there and let a guy slap me 37 times in a row. How fucking stupid is that?

3) Even if those matches were good (which they weren't, but let's say for argument's sake), how does three matches show superiority over an entire career worth of work? The Bushwhackers have a 5 star match as the Sheepherders, but Hulk Hogan, one of the greatest workers in history has none? Randy Savage, arguably the best all-around wrestler in history has none? The Bushwhackers are better than Hogan and Savage? In what world?

Hey INDI. hater I have a Q for you ok Listen good . When you start as a wrestler where do you start :
A-WWE from the beginning .
B-INDI. SHOWS
C-TNA that fast
D-YOU HAVE NO CLUE
So all INDI. guys suck so that means Y2J sucks so does edge and christian and cm punk and RVD and all the ecw originals cause ECW was like ROH .

If that even made an iota of sense, I'm sure I'd love to respond to it. Y2J is in the WWE, as is Edge, Christian, Punk, and RVD, etc...I don't understand what you are trying to say.

Furthermore, the answer to your question is that, outside of Y2J, yes, they do suck, or are, at best, average. Edge is a phenomenal gimmick match wrestler, but sucks everywhere else. Christian is a repeated failure in the main-event scene, as is CM Punk, and RVD is so fucking stupid, he wins two World Titles just in time to get caught with drugs.

But, what I THINK you are trying to say is that most wrestlers start low and have to work their way up. And sure, that's the case. But, that doesn't mean they are good when they are in the indys. Take John Cena for example. When he worked in UPW, he wasn't very good. When he got to OVW, he was a little better, but still not good. He got called up to the WWE, and as time has gone by, he's blossomed into the best worker in the WWE.

Too many ignorant fans like you seem to think that every wrestler starts out with a certain amount of skill, and that skill never improves or decreases, which is just an astoundingly stupid way to think. Guys get better, and guys get worse. And sometimes guys get shown for the lack of ability they really have...like Samoa Joe.

if TNA wants to make him work his butt off they need to help him bring bak his passion .

Wait...why should TNA be responsible for Joe being passionate about his in-ring work? Do you realize how dumb that sounds?

SRY if I offended any 1 but this is a debate and all what I have up there are facts not illusions and if you are still hating go smurf your self .
P.S : Do not hate on the player hate on the game (yes hate on HHH LOL) .

Umm..what?

Maybe next time you could post something that has a semblance of logic and reason to it?

 

[yoshi_doce2006]

Sly you mention that all of Joe's matches in Ring of Honor were an hour but that was a few years ago that he worked those matches. After he came back after his wife had a baby he really gained weight and I noticed a pretty big drop off in match quality. I'm sure the weight has had a good bit to do with that but if Taz is really working with him behind the scenes I could see him lose that weight back off and be better than he has ever been.

Also all of those guys, Jericho, RVD, Edge, Christian, all of those guys were big Indy talents before they were ever in the WWE so if all INDY talent is basically people throwing their buddies around and have no talent like one poster said then why the hell were they ever good enough to be some of the best in Professional Wrestling?

 

[Slyfox696]

Sly you mention that all of Joe's matches in Ring of Honor were an hour

No I didn't, someone else did. I know for a fact that all of his matches WEREN'T an hour. But I do know they sucked, regardless of the time.

I noticed a pretty big drop off in match quality. I'm sure the weight has had a good bit to do with that but if Taz is really working with him behind the scenes I could see him lose that weight back off and be better than he has ever been.

The drop in quality began the moment he was no longer booked to squash the entire X-Division. Once he was asked to help others look good and not just himself, suddenly he was no longer good. Joe is a one-dimensional wrestler. He has to be the ass-kicker. If he's not, then he's limited in the ring.

Also all of those guys, Jericho, RVD, Edge, Christian, all of those guys were big Indy talents before they were ever in the WWE so if all INDY talent is basically people throwing their buddies around and have no talent like one poster said then why the hell were they ever good enough to be some of the best in Professional Wrestling?

Again, read what I said. It's not like you wake up one morning and say to yourself "Hey, I want to be a wrestler and I want this much ability". You have to work and work and work to become good. The level Jericho was at in Smokey Mountain Wrestling doesn't even come CLOSE to compare to what he was doing in 1998. And what he did in '98 doesn't compare to what he can do now. As you get older, you learn more and more about pro wrestling, what works, what doesn't, and how to make your character good for TV.

If it were a wrestling game, you seem to think that once a wrestler steps his first foot in the business, he is assigned an Overall score, and that score never changes. But, it's not true. Like a wrestling game, you start with a low overall ability, and have to work to improve that overall ability.

 

[Louie Music]

Hello everyone! A long time reader here and proud to say this is my first post. Happy to meet you all. I'll introduce myself in a more formal matter at another time in another thread. But this thread has mad me want to speak out.

That being said...

Joe has had a push, it seems every other month, by having some kind of feud or tie in with big name stars that came to TNA. Christian, Sting, Nash, Angle, and now Tazz.

I mean seroiusly, how many coat tails does he have to ride before Russo and Carter realize that Joe just isnt the big star they've pushed him as?

Sorry, but after all this time, in the past few years, if he were really the star that some people in TNA and his core fans thought he's supposed to be... well, why isnt he?

Enough time has passed by and it HAS NOT happened.

Let me ask you this:

If Sting were to make a surprise appearance at the WWE and attack Cena, HHH, Taker, or who ever, it would make a BIG splash!

Even if there were fans there who did not know who Sting was would be flored by it because Sting KNOWS how to make an impact (no pun).

Now put Joe in that situation. I'm willing to bet all of my guitars that 95% of the fans in the arena would be scratching their heads asking, "Who the hell is this guy?" "Why is this guy of all people messing with a WWE main eventer?"

I'm sorry, not trying to offend anyone, but Joe is NOT anywhere near that level and I doubt he ever will be because of lack of talent, charisma, and the ability to create dual magic with big names.

I could be wrong. Who would have ever thought Stunnng Steve Austin would become the man we all know today as Stone Cold Steve Austin? Well, I personally am willing to bet Joe will never accomplish that type of talent, charisma, etc.

Another member here mentioned Joe when he get's the mic. Let's face it guys,if you can't "rock" the mic, you're already in trouble and only a few guys have been able to succeed with little mic skills.

I'm also sick of TNA's constant propaganda of telling the fans what to think, namely that Joe and AJ are the future of the sport.

Well, if that's true, then my beloved wrestling has a VERY bleak looking future.

There are many other guys in TNA that deserve the pushes that Joe has received and has failed at. Could it just be because people at TNA do not like to admit that they're wrong?

It's like what Madden said one time, "In the wrestling industry the customer is always right."

TNA really needs to re-think their stance on Joe because if the big names leave soon and TNA is hell bound and determined to keep pushing Joe time after time thinking the mainstream audience will tune in... well, let me just say I wouldn't be surprised to see a final episode of "Impact" with a WWE logo flashing a the bottom of the screen.

I'm not trying to piss anyone off, I respect all of your opinions and love how passionate so many of you are, but I really believe I'm right about this. And I'm in good company of certain people in the industry who feel the same way.

 

[yoshi_doce2006]

First off Louie welcome.

Now. Dixie Carter has nothing to do with who gets a push in the company. She has an opinion but up until a month ago that was all up to Jeff Jarrett as to who was pushed and who wasn't. President Carter signs the checks, handles the suits, finds some of the talent, signs all of the talent, but doesn't have any official say in the creative department. Another misconception is that President Carter doesn't want to fire people, Jeff Jarrett would never fire people in they were on good terms with the company. You notice that since Jarrett has left two people have been released from creative/agents.

Now if Joe doesn't produce will he go? It is possible that President Carter might oust him and Taz was actually brought in to whip Joe into shape and make sure that doesn't happen. Because you have to think, first Jarrett because of the Karen Angle debacle, then Mantel, then Vega, what could this mean? This could be the start of a company cleanup. Trying to fix some of the problems in the front office and if that doesn't work then the talent will be next. That might be the reason everyone seems to be stepping up and going for the jugular since Jarrett was ousted. If that is indeed the case and Joe doesn't step it up a level it could be bad for him.

 

[Reddannihilation]

For the people criticizing Joe, how many of your favourite wrestlers have been in a match that scored 5/5 from The Wrestling Observer? Now how many have achieved that 3 times? granted Joe isn't my favourite wrestler but unless people want to imply that he's only been awarded that rather prestigious accomplishment 3 times because the other wrestlers carried him I'd be closing my mouth. Joe has worked some incredible matches and I'd be willing to argue that the reason he's seen a decline is that he's been upped to main event status and most of his opponents are nearing retirement. Outside of Angle all of his major matches so far have been against guys past their prime, hopefully he'll have matches against younger, fitter opponents for the rest of the year. Which should allow him to show off his skill more. As for his push I'm hoping he leaves the MEM and just feuds with anybody and everybody, a return to the dominant Joe of old.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

There are many problems about Samoa Joe. One was that he turned face because he was an awesome heel who destoryed everybody he saw. Once he turned face, he didn't have that same intensity. The other thing was that when he was in the X-Division, he got to work with Styles and Daniels who sold Joe's moves perfectly. Since coming out of the division, the only good match he's really had was with Angle. As a in-ring wrestler, I think he's a little overrated because he worked with great workers like Styles and Daniels and hasn't done spectacular ring work anywhere else in TNA.

 

[Uncle Sam]

Did I post in this thread? I thought I did. No, wait. I red-repped Slyfox. Not because he was wrong, kids, but just because he doesn't seem to even make an effort any more.

Yeah, I think Joe can be brought back from the brink. In fact, his current gimmick has even grown on me somewhat. No idea why. Maybe because you just get used to things that are shit after a while. I barely turn off Impact at all any more. Granted, I don't ever watch it, but still.

But yeah, no. I've changed my mind. He's not actually that good and he should just spend the rest of his wrestling years servicing the upper midcard in TNA before returning to the indies as a broken down, washed up "legend" that can't even do the Muscle Buster any more.

 

[Slyfox696]

For the people criticizing Joe, how many of your favourite wrestlers have been in a match that scored 5/5 from The Wrestling Observer?

2 of the 4 actually. And of the other two, one is still in the prime of his career and the biggest draw in the world, and the other was the greatest pro wrestler of all time.

Now how many have achieved that 3 times?

Wait, so because he has three good matches, that makes him a great wrestler? What if he had 3 five star matches, and everything else was rated negative 2 stars. Is he still a good wrestler?

Oh, and don't bother with that pesky "those matches weren't even that good" argument. The Unbreakable Three-Way was great. Vs. Punk was average, at best, and the Kobashi match was terrible.

When are people going to start thinking for themselves, instead of letting an obviously biased FAN do it for them?

but unless people want to imply that he's only been awarded that rather prestigious accomplishment 3 times because the other wrestlers carried him I'd be closing my mouth.

How about we argue this?

There are so many things wrong with this statement:

1) Meltzer's ratings are incredibly biased. If your name is Joe, Hart, Flair, or Japanese, you automatically start with a star and half every match. Never fails. Meltzer would literally get on his knees and start sucking if they gave him the chance. Furthermore, Meltzer is a known mark for any kind of wrestling that supporting makes him different than the common fan. He supported the NWA when the WWF was big, the WWF when WCW was big, and now supports ROH when they're the underdog. It's not even funny anymore how desperate Meltzer is to make people believe he's smart.

2) Only one of those so-called 5 star matches was any good, and that was a match where, ta-da, he had two guys in the ring who are great workers and are willing to bump like hell for him (Styles and Daniels). Which, if I remember correctly, is what I said earlier. The match with Punk was, at best, average, but again, Punk is another guy who would take massive bumps for Joe. And the third match? With Kobashi? I've seen better matches with Mr. Kennedy and Carlito than that. Big fucking deal, they stand and slap each other a million times. How is that skill? It's boring and it was stupid. Like if I'm in a real fight, I'm just going to stand there and let a guy slap me 37 times in a row. How fucking stupid is that?

3) Even if those matches were good (which they weren't, but let's say for argument's sake), how does three matches show superiority over an entire career worth of work? The Bushwhackers have a 5 star match as the Sheepherders, but Hulk Hogan, one of the greatest workers in history has none? Randy Savage, arguably the best all-around wrestler in history has none? The Bushwhackers are better than Hogan and Savage? In what world?

Oh wait, I already did.

Joe has worked some incredible matches

The only good matches he has are ones in which he can physically dominate his opponent. When he has to work a more even match, they suck.

and I'd be willing to argue that the reason he's seen a decline is that he's been upped to main event status and most of his opponents are nearing retirement.

Has nothing to do with it. The fact of the matter is the decline is because Joe can only work a squash match believably. He doesn't sell well, doesn't take bumps well, is piss bucket on the mic, and can't tell a story...except that of him dominating his opponent.

Outside of Angle all of his major matches so far have been against guys past their prime,

And those men past their prime have outworked Joe several times. Take Lockdown 2007, for example. Sting and Steiner both completely outworked Joe. The only decent match Joe has had with a main-event heavyweight has been with Steiner, and that's only because Steiner still knows how to work, and when he can get his body to do it, is great in the ring. Sting and Jeff Jarrett had a very good match in 2006 at Bound For Glory. Why can't Joe have a good match with anyone?

hopefully he'll have matches against younger, fitter opponents for the rest of the year.

Hopefully for him, he'll have matches against guys who are willing to bump for him.

a return to the dominant Joe of old.

Of course...because that's the only way Joe can work a good match.

 

[yoshi_doce2006]

For the people criticizing Joe, how many of your favourite wrestlers have been in a match that scored 5/5 from The Wrestling Observer? Now how many have achieved that 3 times? granted Joe isn't my favourite wrestler but unless people want to imply that he's only been awarded that rather prestigious accomplishment 3 times because the other wrestlers carried him I'd be closing my mouth. Joe has worked some incredible matches and I'd be willing to argue that the reason he's seen a decline is that he's been upped to main event status and most of his opponents are nearing retirement. Outside of Angle all of his major matches so far have been against guys past their prime, hopefully he'll have matches against younger, fitter opponents for the rest of the year. Which should allow him to show off his skill more. As for his push I'm hoping he leaves the MEM and just feuds with anybody and everybody, a return to the dominant Joe of old.

Well I dont read those wrestling magazines but since my all time favorite is Shawn Michaels I'm guessing he has gotten 5/5 quite a few times.

If is ever going to be dominant in the main event he is going to have to lose the weight he put on when his wife had his child and then freshen up on the basics which he has been lacking while he has been in his latest character/nation of violence. If he does that then I think he could be very good again. Not AJ Styles good but very good.

 

[2012isbs]

Joe is not a lost cause yet he's damn close though. He needs to learn how to talk on the mic, which he hopefully learn how to because almost everyone on the MEM is great on the stick. His wrestling is ok at best, his five star matches as said before aren't that great and he can't sell. Joe has potential to be great, first he needs to relearn the basics like how to sell, how to give a good promo etc. The wieght thing isn't as big a deal as long as it doesn't get in the way of his wrestling. Also he needs to drop the one man nation of violence gimmick it gets boring.
The good things about Joe are that he can move fast for someone of his size, he is over with the TNA crowd (not that hard IMO) and he is marketable (not about his wrestling ,but he makes TNA money).

 

[Nate DaMac]

Though I despise Sly, he is completely right. I get sick of everyone treating Meltzer's word like it's fucking gospel. The dude is a overrated smark, like half the people on here, and has been more detrimental to the wrestling industry than anybody. Samoa Joe isn't quite a lost cause just yet, but in a few years, giving him that label will be acceptable. He wont get any better, and he wont break out into some big star like he was expected to. I know a lot of folks will say anything can happen, but this will not.