Royal Rumble and Wrestlemania

[BillAlfonso]

Where to begin? Let's wind the clocks back eleven years, Stone Cold Steve Austin wins the Royal Rumble by eliminating The Rock. He goes on to Wrestlemania where Shawn Michaels puts him over and the rest is history. Two years before that, Shawn Michaels wins the Royal Rumble and then Bret puts him over and Wrestlemania. My question is, why doesn't the WWE use the Royal Rumble and Wrestlemania to put new guys over to the main event scene anymore? The last guy to be put over at Wrestlemania was Batista when he beat HHH. It seems to me that it the best way to do it and gives the guy instant credibility because he just beat a dominant champion and it basically writes itself, deserving guy beats the odds to get his shot and makes good on it. This method gave us a hall of famer in Austin and another surefire hall of famer in HBK.

 

[Slyfox696]

There's a couple reasons.

1) Nobody has been worthy of it. First of all, you're wrong about Batista being the last, as Rey did it in 2006, winning the Rumble and going on to win at Wrestlemania for his first World title. So, that's only like 3 years ago. Second of all, there's been nobody worthy of winning a Rumble and main-eventing Wrestlemania. Who would do it? Jeff Hardy? Not a chance you want someone unreliable like Hardy to main-event the biggest show of the year, especially when the guy is never going to be more than an upper midcard worker. CM Punk? He's no where near ready for the kind of spotlight, and he's already a 3 time World champion. There's no one else in the WWE who has enough heat to deserve that spot.

2) If you do this every year, then the prestige of winning Rumble and winning Wrestlemania goes away completely. The reason why it works and is memorable is because it's special. If the Rumble winner is a midcard guy every year, who goes on to be World champion, it becomes tired, predictable, and no longer special.

 

[klunderbunker]

That's not exactly true about it giving them instant credablity. Often the winners already had it before they went to Mania. Batista for example had been built up for months before that and was without a doubt the hottest thing in the company. As for Austin, yes he won in 97 but it was the Submission match and subsequent things he did that year that got him to the main event level. Michaels was the same way. He won it in 95 and had all kinds of great matches before getting the title at WM 12. The basic issue is that you can't just throw some young guy into the main event of the biggest show of the year. They have to have a lot of seasoning first or be a very special case like Lesnar. It just usually doesn't work out. Let's say Ziggler won the Rumble and then the title at Mania. Most fans wouldn't accept it as he came from nowhere and was all of a sudden in the main event. If you don't believe me, look at JBL winning the title in 04. Same exact thing happened.

 

[King Patrick Star]

I would like to see the WWE pull a crazy turn of events where the Royal Rumble winner and / or the Money In The Bank winner lose in their respective Championship matches. This would add unpredictability. After the “Rumble winner gets a Title Shot at Mania” rule was in place, you just knew that the RR Winner was going to be Champ at Mania. To throw a twist in there, have them lose. No big deal if the winner is an established Main Eventer already.

 

[BillAlfonso]

I didn't meant to just thrust them into the spotlight, off course there'd be some buildup and those guys, Austin and HBK were still really just uppermidcarders until their wrestlemanias. Also, who's to say that Dolph isn't ready for the spotlight, for all we know, Austin and HBK could've folded themselves.

 

[ronthony717]

Well king patrick the only way they could make the royal rumble winner lose his title match at wm is to have it be triple H or Jericho or someone who it won't hurt... It would destroy say MVP if he won the RR and then goes to WM and loses... His push would be gone and so would he... You gotta understand that pushes can't be hurt like that... Like what if Shelton finally wins the MITB match and everyones excited cause he lost every single one when he should of won them and then loses his first title match let's say against orton.. Would u believe in Shelton's push? I wouldn't.. Keep how things work with rr and wm.. Its worked for yrs no need to change

 

[dta2324]

so let me see if I understand you correctly......winning the Royal Rumble and being in the main event at Wrestlemania, and receiving 8 weeks of build up doesnt give you instant credibility....? Are you serious?

Alfonso...? just uppermid carders....until their wrestlemanias?......absolutely not......when they got to their wrestlemania's they were being pushed in main event programs, which culminated with them winning the Rumble.....youre contradicting yourself.....and also, Austin and HBK were far far far more along in their careers, talent wise, character wise, etc, than Ziggler is, even if he was to win the rumble in 2010...ziggler doesnt even compare to HBK or Austin at all....not even in the same ballpark. Theres a whole lotta hype surrounding a guy who has done nothing but introduce himself to people and worked a shitty program with the worst wrestler on the whole WWE Roster....dont get ahead of yourself

And if you really wanna see a crazy swerve by the WWE at the royal rumble, then have either the WWE champ or the World Heavyweight champ with the royal rumble and choose to defend the title against themself.....that would be 8 fun weeks to watch....its never been done before, and I can guarantee you that if the format 12-20 yrs ago was the rumble winner getting a title shot, then vince would have done it at some point....

 

[BillAlfonso]

I guess I didn't make myself clear, I don't mean just thrust a guy there, far from it. But it seems like, the push guys for the whole year just to let HHH, Cena, or RKO win the Rumble every year. These guys are already established and other stars could be made instead of MITB with always leaves me feeling a little dirty even thought the owner of the contract went through hell to earn it. And for the record, Austin was noted to be an ass-kicker before WM 14 but had never really proven himself to be championship caliber. He put on terrific matches, mind you, but at best he was still number two to Undertaker, he even said it in his DVD. He wasn't really the lead dog until he beat HBK who was usually 1,2, or 3 with Bret and Taker. I can't really call HBK because I'm a Bret-man and didn't pay attention to him back then except when he would have matches against Bret. The only reason I like him today is because he harkens back to the days of yore.

 

[dta2324]

you are clearly confused.....you said in your last post that the wwe pushes guys just to let Cena HHH or Orton win the rumble every yr......just thought that I would point out that HHH has not won the rumble since 2002...Cena has only won it 1 time in 2007 and Orton has Never let me repeat NEVER won the rumble.......

oh and 1 other thing,.....NOONE is championship caliber until they win the title....

yet 1 other thing,...Austins angle with Bret Hart culminating at WM13 with one of the best matches in the history of Wrestlemania, a full 1 yr before he won his first WWF title, more than cemented his place as a championship caliber performer.....Im going to take a guess and say that you didnt even watch that match live and have only seen it on DVD.....

 

[Sivsyboi]

I would like to see the WWE pull a crazy turn of events where the Royal Rumble winner and / or the Money In The Bank winner lose in their respective Championship matches. This would add unpredictability. After the “Rumble winner gets a Title Shot at Mania” rule was in place, you just knew that the RR Winner was going to be Champ at Mania. To throw a twist in there, have them lose. No big deal if the winner is an established Main Eventer already.

Are you talking about a guy that's being put over, or an already established star. Because, This:

After the “Rumble winner gets a Title Shot at Mania” rule was in place, you just knew that the RR Winner was going to be Champ at Mania. To throw a twist in there, have them lose

When was the last time the rumble winner won the title? 2007. The rumble's great because not allthe winners win the title match.

Anyway, as for new guys to win it. There's noone who could. Shelton Benjamin, Dolph Ziggler, John Morrison, Jeff Hardy, CM Punk are all nowhere nearly ready enough to win it. Ther only realistic winners next year who havent already won it are:

Christian
Edge
Chris Jericho

(If one of them do win it, I want a triple threat at mania for the title. How awesome would that be?)

 

[Tenebrous]

Orton has never won the Rumble? Where have you been since eh, December? He was the only legitimate candidate going in...

As far as building new champions--there aren't many candidates right now that would sellout a 75,000 seat stadium. Edge, Chris Jericho and Jeff Hardy are about the only people who could win the Rumble for the first time and make Wrestlemania's Main Event work watching.

All roads seem to point to Edge coming back and winning but as a face which will be interesting because he's one all of his titles as the heel "ultimate opportunist. Chris Jericho could win the Rumble and that would be believable as well as Jeff Hardy though he may not be around. How is Jeff Hardy a midcarder when he has main evented nearly a dozen PPV over the last 1 1/2 year winning both titles? As far as Christian headlining Mania, I don't feel like that's believable just yet. I think he is fantastic but his match wouldn't be the emphasis of Wrestlemania so why have him when the Rumble? Same for Jack Swagger...if he won his match wouldn't be the final match of the evening.

Dolph Ziggler seems to come up alot nowadays. Not to knock preferences of fellow fans but he doesn't do it for me...John Morrison could possibly be credible but he doesn't work for me as a face. Would other fans buy into him wrestling say Jericho at WM26 for the title? I would but most won't buy into that...now.

I think the Rumble has lost it's push-to-the-moon aura in 2005 when Money in the Bank was created...Wrestlemania is scripted around star power (Taker vs HBK/Batista/Edge; Cena vs HHH) unlike the 90's when it was used more frequently to build legends...

 

[averysean2000]

orton has to won the rumble duh it was actually this years royal rumble cause orton went on to wm25 challenging triple h to the wwe title and orton lost

 

[Stormtrooper]

if WWE goes with an unestablished guy, I see them going with Jack Swagger. I think this guy is the future of the company. In 6 months, I see Swagger winning the US title from Kofi Kingston, then losing the belt around november/december, getting ready for a storyline leading into the Rumble Match. If they decide to go with a former champ, then I see them going with Chris Jericho or Shawn Michaels. HBK deserves one more run at the top, and Jericho is still the best guy in the company, and it sad that he has only Main Evented 1 WrestleMania.

I see a lot of people saying that Edge will return to win the Rumble. While I would like this, unfortunately, it is most likely impossible. His injury is going to keep him out of action for a very long time, and he will still be on the mend when the Rumble comes around (original speculation was 10 months, and i don't recall hearing anything less then that).

 

[shafe_41]

you are clearly confused.....you said in your last post that the wwe pushes guys just to let Cena HHH or Orton win the rumble every yr......just thought that I would point out that HHH has not won the rumble since 2002...Cena has only won it 1 time in 2007 and Orton has Never let me repeat NEVER won the rumble.......

oh and 1 other thing,.....NOONE is championship caliber until they win the title....

yet 1 other thing,...Austins angle with Bret Hart culminating at WM13 with one of the best matches in the history of Wrestlemania, a full 1 yr before he won his first WWF title, more than cemented his place as a championship caliber performer.....Im going to take a guess and say that you didnt even watch that match live and have only seen it on DVD.....

Well then who's that Orton guy that won the Rumble this year? I thought it was Randy Orton but clearly... I know nothing.

Anyway... like Slyfox said... nobody has been worthy of it. The Rumble win goes to somebody who has gained a lot of momentum over the past year for one reason or another. So following the Rumble each year, you can pretty much predict who is going to win it every single year. With the exception of Cena in 08 because nobody knew he would come back so soon from his injury. Unless they made the injury seem worse that it really was the entire time and just said "hey let's bring Cena back at the Rumble months ahead of when we told the world he'd be back and play his injury off to be serious when it's just minor." WWE did that in amazing fashion. Even I MTFO when he returned and I'm not a big John Cena (the character) fan.

The Rumble winner is usually predicted by gaining a ton of momentum say... after SSlam. Fans getting behind them more, winning a lot of big matches, and may have never tasted gold before. I can't remember the last time other than 08 when the Rumble was truly unpredictable. Orton was pretty much a lock this year, Taker was somewhat predictable in 07 just because he had never won before and you knew they'd throw him a win just for the record books. The years before that... Mysterio and Batista were pretty much locks. You knew the little guy was going to win sooner or later, and Batista was gaining tons of momentum when he won because you saw he was breaking away from Evolution and was without a doubt the biggest thing in the company at the time. Benoit was also predictable. Again with the giant gaining of momentum going into the Rumble.

The 2010 Rumble, I see much of the same coming. If Edge can come back, I see a face Edge winning the Rumble. Simply because, he's never won. Jericho hasn't won either and I would love to see him win one because I've been a Jerichoholic all my life. From the moment on Nitro when he brought out that perferated computer paper and told Dean Malenko that he was the man of 1003 holds... and half of the ones he read consisted of "arm bar," I was hooked and you knew Jericho was going to be a major star someday.
So Jericho could be destined for a win. Unless something major happens in the next 6 months, nobody is ready for a Rumble win. The closest guys after the major main eventers would be CM Punk and Jeff Hardy. Hardy is probably going to take a break and Punk is still not ready for a Rumble win even though he is champion. None of those upper midcard guys are ready. Swagger, Miz, Morrison, etc... None of them. If Kennedy was around and could have stayed healthy, I could have seen him winning the 2010 Rumble but we saw what happened there. You can't just throw a mid-card guy into a Rumble win and have them headline...then lose at Mania. They would be ruined for life. That's why Cena can win the Rumble and lose at Mania. Same with Orton. That won't damage those guys at all. But can you imagine what would have happened if all that build-up around Batista in 05 breaking away from Evolution, and then getting his ass beat by HHH at Mania would have done? Batista would be back to managing D-Von Dudley, Rev. D-Von...whatever you want to call him. Not that extreme, but you get my drift. You'd crush that mid-carder's carreer.

That said... Jericho for win in 2010!!!!!

 

[miamicanes460]

I would love to see something unpredictible at the RR this year. The above posters are correct. The RR has lost its' luster lately becuase of predictibility. Although I consider Cena 'okay', I certainly wouldn't include him in my top 15 wrestlers, but his return was incredible and I marked out for the first time in years when he surprised everyone by showing up.

I propose a double shock. I would cream my pants if at #29 Batista makes his return, clearing the ring, destroying everyone in his path. Nobody is left in the ring, as we wait for #30. All of a sudden, Edge's music hits and wrestling fans all around the country begin to cream themselves. I think it would be awesome to have the final two wrestlers in the RR match guys who have returned from injury. WHat a shock for those who didn't order the PPV if that happened. To see Edge eliminates Batista to win the RR on WWE.com's home page would be kind of sweet.


I, however, also agree that Edge probably won't be back in time. I expect him to be out until 3-4 months after WM for that matter. This injury is awful and he shouldn't put strain on it if he can't wrestle.

Another Edge returning scenario would be to have him come back as a heel. Have somebody working in a program with a really over face...seeming like WM is set up pefectly for the face to win the rumble. For example (I know this isn't plausible, but it's a random example) say that you have CM Punk as WHC. Jeff Hardy is built up as the uber-face. He comes in at #1 in the rumble, dominates the event, and ends up being in the ring with one other guy with #30 remaining. Have Hardy eliminate the 2nd last guy so that there is just Hardy in the ring waiting on #30. CM Punk comes out from the crowd, Fucks up Hardy with a chair and maybe 1-2 GTS shots. The all of a sudden, Edge's music hits as he is #30. He walks into the ring, plops Hardy out of the ring. Little kids cry for months over the events. It would get Edge over so much as a heel (not that he needed it) and would make Hardy (of any other face) super over with the crowd, as they would rally behind them.


Just some random thoughts.

 

[Slam Master]

You have to think back to the WWF, and when a guy like Shawn Michaels won the RR in 1995 it was because the uppers felt he needed to be elevated to the next level in order to Main Event withe Diesel (or semi-main event because of LT vs Bam Bam). They also had him win in such dramatic fashion to build him eve further by being the first man in and hanging on the ropes like he did and not touching both feet. You also have to realize that he was a singles wrestler for 3 years, a member of the WWF since late 1987 or early 1988 after being fired the first time around and had been professionally wrestling since 1985. He was a multi-time IC champ and tag team champ.
Same with the Hitman. He was co-winner with Luger in 1994. Luger got the quick push because of his looks and physique and the fact that Vince wanted to make him into the next All-American Hogan. Bret Hart was in the WWF for 10 years, had won THE title in the days when it meant something, IC title, tag title and was established.
Steve Austin was an exception because the company was in trouble, he was popular with the fans, and they seriously needed new big-name talent. He was one of the first changes in the company's status quo in a long line of changes that would occur for the WWF

Guys like those 2 I mentioned, Rock, Lesnar, Angle, etc. don't come around too often anymore. Some of the new young guys just don't do it for me. They put belts on the young guys hoping it will make them, but in the end the person makes the belt.

I could see Edge coming back after the injury as face and winning (like Michaels did after coming back from the Syracuse, NY bar beating to win the Rumble and the title from one of the best ever). I also like Jericho a lot. Jeff Hardy will probably be gone. HHH has been done to death. Orton had his time. I like Shawn Michaels but he won't win. Punk has had his moments. Its hard to choose what up-and-comer I would want cus theyall need more credibity.

 

[AnthonyMango/NoFate007]

With the scenario of catapulting someone new into the main event to win their first world title, it has to be someone that not only is over with the crowd enough to convince them to buy the ppv, but also over enough with the audience as someone who could actually win it. As KB pointed out, if Dolph Ziggler suddenly won the Royal Rumble and then the WWE/WHC title at WrestleMania, there would be a backlash of people saying that he wasn't ready and that they just did a hotshot to him, putting too much too fast onto him and overlooking other people that are "more qualified". I like Ziggler, but he might even be too green for a MIDCARD title reign (though most likely not), let alone the top position in the company.

Now, Sly pointed out another thing that I agree with: being worthy. Am I tired of seeing the same group of people in the same positions? Yes. Am I very glad that Smackdown allows some fresh feuds and it seems to be elevating EVERYBODY on the show, as opposed to still just focusing on 4 people (Orton, HHH, Batista, Cena)? Very, very pleased about that. But when it comes to people that would be ready for such a monumental thing like the Royal Rumble/WrestleMania duet, the list is minuscule. People like MVP, Shelton, Christian, Swagger, Kofi, The Miz, Morrison, Matt Hardy...they're the ones we're primarily thinking about when it comes to the list of potentials, right? I'm a fan of all these guys save for Matt Hardy, and I'd love to see them all be world champion some day (save for Matt Hardy), but there's something that just SCREAMS out to you when you look at this list. I'll give you a second to think. Proceed to the next paragraph when ready....

Money in the Bank. These people are prime for a Money in the Bank win, because they're all upper midcarders, and the MITB is built around the concept of giving an upper midcarder a push towards the main event that doesn't revolve around them needing to sell tickets. I'd love to see John Morrison win the Royal Rumble in 2010 and go on to defeat someone like Chris Jericho for the championship at WrestleMania. Morrison's one of my favorite guys on the roster right now and he has a bright future. But if you really think about it, wouldn't it make much more sense - if its medically possible - for Edge to return as a face, win the Royal Rumble (something he's never done before), and beat Chris Jericho instead? Edge/Jericho will sell more tickets than Morrison/Jericho, plus you have a built in system that allows Morrison to win the Money in the Bank that same night and begin his main event push. Its just delayed by a couple months. This is why Randy Orton won it this year, because he's an established name that helps the credibility of the Royal Rumble and he should have been in the main event without a doubt. I thought HHH/Orton sucked major ass at WrestleMania, but from a logical standpoint, it made sense to have that match. Now that Orton won the Royal Rumble, it adds another big name to the list of people that have won it. If Edge were to win it in 2010, that's another huge name. Then imagine if in 2011, we had Dolph Ziggler, a guy who has been IC champ a few times, has had some upper midcard experience, and so forth, starts a slow build and BAM, he wins the Royal Rumble. Doesn't that mean more when he can relate himself by being surrounded by credible multi-time world champions, as opposed to every year just having a new superstar go ahead and win his first WWE or World Heavyweight title?

The Royal Rumble/WrestleMania push is a great way to get a new main event star for years to come, but because of its very lucrative position, it should be reserved for people that can make the most of the situation, instead of just degrading it to an "emergency push" for someone who needs to move up the ladder.

 

[AzLunchbox]

Seriously people....do your homework.

I see people saying Orton didn't win the rumble when he won it THIS YEAR.

Then i see people saying that the winner of the rumble always gets the title at Wrestlemania.....Orton LOST his title match at WM THIS YEAR!

 

[morrison317]

AzLunchbox, thank you

And i also think the fact that someone won the Rumble this year, then lost at WM means that creative can do what they want next year, but realisticly i can only see one of two people winning, Edge or Chris Jericho. Having said that. i think finishing in the top 4 of the Rumble is a decent way of getting over, with the exception of this year the top four tends to consist of at the very least one superstar getting a push (even money on Morrison/Ziggler 2010) who doesnt quite make it ( I remember Orton 2006 and Cena 2005 both being mid carder's and runners up)

So in my opinion RR 2010 should finish with Chris Jericho, Edge, John Morrison and Dolph Ziggler, with Jericho winning, and either Morrison or Ziggler finishing 2nd

 

[The People's Tampon]

The only person in the company it would work for right now is Johh Morrison. He knocks against the glass ceiling from now till the 'Mania, kinda like what he's doing right now where he's beaten the champ twice in non-Title matches. He wins the Rumble in electrifying fashion, which would work for him because of his athleticism. The fans would really rally around him, especially after he gives the most kick-ass promo the WWE writers can conjure up on the next SD after the Rumble. Have him feud with the Champion, but a credible heel battles him for his shot at Wrestlemania to keep his momentum going, and boom, you have all the momentum in the world for the guy, with months of perfect build going into the event.