Round 7: Dave -vs- Spoodbeest

Discussion in 'Debater's League 2010' started by Phoenix, Sep 12, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Phoenix

    Phoenix WZCW's First Triple Crown Champion

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Messages:
    1,630
    Likes Received:
    703
    Which wrestler is the better asset to the Professional Wrestling World, Paul Wright or André the Giant?

    This is a seventh round match in the Debater's League. Dave is the home debater and gets to choose which side of the debate they will be on and who debates first, but they have 24 hours to make their choice.

    This thread is for DEBATERS ONLY and will end on Friday at 2pm EST.

    Anyone that posts in this thread besides the debaters, league admins, and judges will be infracted!

    Good luck.​
     
  2. Dave

    Dave Administrator
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2009
    Messages:
    4,601
    Likes Received:
    2,625
    I will be arguing that Paul Wight is the better asset to the world of pro wrestling. Spood can go first.
     
  3. SpoodBeest

    SpoodBeest City Dweller, Successful Fella

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2009
    Messages:
    456
    Likes Received:
    199
    This week's debate has asked the following:
    So I will now state my reasoning for why André was most certainly the better asset to the wrestling business.

    1. André was always the bigger draw

    When he was brought into the World Wrestling Federation he was paid a sum of $400,000 a year, which was the highest pay for any wrestler at that time. Which shows that Vince had a lot of faith in him. André was something new to the audience who had never seen an athlete of that size before. He became one of the WWF's major draws in the 70s and 80s, which overall helped the business more than you would think. he put butts in seats which turned a profit for the company and as long as a business is making money it's successful. André was part of the reason the golden age era of wrestling in the 80s was as huge and popular as it was.

    He became so popular that he needed to turn heel so that Hulk Hogan could be the top face. Their program that built up to WrestleMania 3 still stand as one of the greatest of all time. The match is also one of the most recognized main events in Mania history. The main event was such an anticipated one that the star power of Hogan and André alone was able to draw 93,173 fans into the Pontiac Silverdome for the event. The largest attendance for a sporting event in an North American arena. That is how huge these two stars were and they are the reason wrestling was so hot in the 80s

    2. André was always the superior worker

    André even though his size may have given him some disadvantages in the ring he always put forth a stellar effort in any match he worked. He took care of his opponents in the ring and always entertained when he was in the ring. The majority of fans always wanted to see André's matches, I don't think we say the same for Mr. Wight and his matches when it comes to crowd appreciation.

    It seems that André just had this unique and special quality about himself that fit that era of wrestling so well it didn't matter if he wasn't the most exciting in the ring, people wanted to seem him compete anyway. Even though his matches may not have ever been the most exciting, the real question is which matches actually were at the time? During the 80s the same archetype of matches were done over and over again so it's not a blow on André if he followed suit. André can always have the claim of always being a consistent worker and always made the crowd stay involved.

    3. Paul Wight lacks the above advantages André had

    I think it's very clear that Paul Wight (better known as Big Show) lacks that certain something André had. I think it might have something to do with the era. Wrestling and it's fans always evolve over time and what they want to see in the ring seems to differ as times go on. Wight seems like he would have fit better if he were a star in the 80s, but his professional career didn't start until the mid 90s. This was the time when fans wanted attitude and less muscle bound guys bumbling around. The business had evolved by the time Wight got in it.

    They tried to turn him into the next André through the gimmick of "The Giant" and whatnot but it never really came to fruition. He may have had a few good spots on top of WCW but he never really got two the popularity or drawing power of his gigantic predecessor. Even when he debuted with WWF under "The Big Show" gimmick he hasn't gotten to the level of André in terms of popularity, although I will admit that Wight is a superior mic worker. But it takes more than that in the world of professional wrestling.

    In Conclusion

    André was a more than a enormous draw in the 70s and 80s. Which kept the business going and led to the first major wrestling boom in the industry's history. Paul Wight has done well over his career and I'm not arguing against that but he has not left the kind of impact that André has on the business. He became a major superstar in and out of the ring and is still very well known to this day. I don't think Wight has left such an impact on professional wrestling, but Dave perhaps you can tell me either wise. ;)
     
  4. Dave

    Dave Administrator
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2009
    Messages:
    4,601
    Likes Received:
    2,625
    In the history of professional wrestling, the “big-man” role has been filled by more than one competitor. In this debate, I will try and convince you that Paul Wight (AKA The Big Show/The Giant) is the bigger asset to that industry. It is my hope that, at the end of this debate, you will subscribe to the idea that Wight is indeed the better asset to professional wrestling.

    As we round off 2010, it comes to my attention that Paul Wight and Andre The Giant have wrestled for approximately the same amount of time (Give or take a few years). In this debate, I will try and prove to you why Wight’s career has been the more influential of the two.

    So without further ado, let’s get on with the debate.

    Paul Wight is not just The Big Show!

    I know that seems like a moot point right off the bat but I feel that it is a very important point. During the Debater’s League last year, I had a debate about whether Paul Wight has been more impressive in the World Wrestling Federation/Entertainment than he was in World Championship Wrestling. After giving it my all, IC schooled me on the fact that Paul Wight is more than just the Big Show. Paul Wight is The Giant. Paul Wight is a completely different entity than he is right now. In fact, some would even say that Paul Wight was more successful in WCW than his run with the WWE.

    Whether that is true or not is irrelevant. My point is that when you are reading this debate. Please ensure that you are taking all of the facts into account. This question has not asked us who is more of an asset between The Big Show and Andre The Giant. Rather, it asks us to take into account the entire careers of both of these competitors and WCW was a huge part of the Paul Wight story.

    Not only was Paul Wight pushed to the stars in WCW, he was also a World Heavyweight Champion. Not only was he a World Heavyweight Champion, his win came against a hugely popular Hulk Hogan. Yes! That is correct! The man who is famed for taking pro-wrestling to a whole new stage was beaten for the WCW World Heavyweight Championship by a 23 year old Paul Wight. It is important to note, that at this point in time, Wight was the youngest ever World Heavyweight Champion.

    Wight’s storied career in WCW was and is a hugely significant part of his time in pro-wrestling. He feuded with the likes of Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage and Ric Flair (winning the World Heavyweight Championship once more). Not only was he feuding with these legends, he rubbed shoulders with people like Lex Luger, Goldberg and Sting. Yes! A lot of stock was put into a budding Giant at WCW.

    Wight’s Legacy is superior to Andre’s!


    What is often overlooked about Wight, is the fact that he has taken part in a lot of the angles that have shaped pro-wrestling. For example, Wight was absolutely essential in the development of the nWo. He joined and left constantly but that level of unpredictability is still something that people look back on in WCW.

    As a member of the WWE roster, the same can be said. Paul Wight debuted as a member of the Corporation. The Corporation basically ushered in the Attitude Era of the WWE and Wight was very influential in that. I will always remember Wight tossing Austin onto the cage and Austin stealing the win as the cage buckled and swung open. Who will forget Wight chokeslamming The Undertaker through the ring? Who will forget the role he played in perhaps the greatest Hardcore Championship match in history at WrestleMania X-7? Who will forget Brock Lesnar and The Big Show causing the Smackdown ring to buckle as Lesnar superplexed Show from the top rope?

    One thing that has always been true of the Big Show and Wight in general, is that he has forged a legacy for himself that cannot be touched by Andre The Giant. Yes! I will concede that Andre had one moment of greatness with Hulk Hogan at WrestleMania III. However, let us not forget that that match was about Hogan from start to finish. Hogan was thrust into the public eye like never before and Andre was relegated to the sidelines as Hogan took his place at the top table of pro-wrestling.

    Like him or not, Paul Wight has managed to be a part of the biggest moments in pro-wrestling history in his career. Whether those moments came from the now or Paul Wight as the Big Show, Wight has managed to do something that Andre never could and that is stay in the public eye as part of the most influential and important aspects of pro-wrestling.

    I ask you one question, as it brings this point to a close rather nicely. As you read all of the wonderful moments that Wight has given us, can you give me an example of a superior moment that has come from Andre The Giant, outside of the slam from Hulk Hogan?

    Wight is, and has been, more reliable than Andre!

    Although it is sad, the health problems that plagued Andre The Giant until his death became a huge part of his pro-wrestling career. It is reported that in the 80’s, Andre The Giant was having trouble breathing and the stress of wrestling plus his health problems were stopping his heart from pumping blood around his frame. Naturally, he is not at fault for this but reliability is absolutely crucial in all aspects of professional wrestling.

    The same disease that took the life of Andre The Giant was prevalent in Wight also. Having had successful surgery on the gland, The Big Show is far more reliable than Andre ever was. Wight has been wrestling for 15 years and has not had the problems (to the same extent) that Andre had. Andre’s health always plagued him and kept him back from achieving his true potential as a professional wrestler. Yes! He had his moments but his health was always a sticking point.

    Just 8 or 9 years after joining the world of pro-wrestling, Andre was feeling the effects that the industry has on the body. Couple that with the fact that his condition was never going to improve, Andre was never going to be half as reliable as healthy Wight was and still is. Despite being almost 40 now, Wight is still in a reasonable condition and is still as reliable as ever to the WWE.

    This debate is about who is the bigger asset to the world of professional wrestling. Reliability is a massive part of that question and Wight dwarves the reliability of Andre and for good reason.

    I have more point but I will wait for a reply from Spood and talk about them in the future.

    In this post, I have outlined only a few reasons why Paul Wight is not only the more reliable athlete than Andre, but I have also showed that the moments that Wight has given us throughout his career with WCW and the WWF/E alike, have been far superior to anything that Andre managed to do. These three factors alone are enough to convince me that Paul Wight is in fact the greater asset to professional wrestling.
     
  5. SpoodBeest

    SpoodBeest City Dweller, Successful Fella

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2009
    Messages:
    456
    Likes Received:
    199
    In my initial opening post I never disagreed with assessment. In fact I believe I mentioned pretty clearly in my former post. Wight was "The Giant" in WCW most of us smarks know of this fact. The only difference between Wight's careers in the two different companies was that he was pushed better in WCW arguably than he has ever been in WWF/E. Even then he was held down at times when Kevin Nash and the booking team from hell were kicking at a falling product. In fact didn't Wight get so sick of this treatment that he left for WWF/E? More on that as this rebuttal develops.

    I was well aware of this point from the beginning as the question clearly emphasizes Paul Wight thus his entire career and legacy. Again I clearly talked about his time as The Giant in the above post.

    At the beginning he was pushed very hard in that company. Eventually though everything went haywire and all the antics of WCW's management drove Wight away from their company. Other wrestlers like Brock Lesnar and Randy Orton have accomplished the youngest world champion for their time feat as well. Hell Orton still holds that title to this very day. So if it's such a huge thing for Wight then it's as equally beneficial to Orton. Also that victory wasn't as legitimate as you make it out to be. Wight won that world title on a disqualification that Jimmy Hart caused. It was also against pre-nWo Hogan who's star power at the time was beginning to fade before his character change which made him almost bigger than his 80s WWF run. So all in all his early WCW career doesn't seem as huge as originally stated. And that disqualification title win truly is the true testament to that.

    Again in his early years while there, they never really pushed him to his full potential. The same shit happened with Goldberg, once Nash got in charge no one could be bigger than the nWo or you joined it in an attempt to become bigger. This got under the skin of many wrestlers and again I will repeat myself is the reason Wight said bye-bye to Eric and Co. He may have had these matches with these legends and such but do people really remember it? Where those top drawing matches that did the business very well? Wight's WCW career is quite overrated in terms of his legacy. In some way his WWF/E career outshines it in a way to be quite honest.

    It's overlooked for a reason. I will go on record to say that the majority of his WCW career was overlooked. It would have worked just as fine if Wight was not involved. He was a cool addition during his billion tenures in the group but he wouldn't have been needed to develop the faction. Hogan, Nash, and Hall are the reasons that faction did as well as it did. Wight was merely a Luke Gallows to the groups stars. Also after awhile of Wight constantly leaving, and then rejoining wouldn't this lower the unpredictable quality it once had?

    This just proves more why his WCW career wasn't as huge as it's made out to be. These moments are quite memorable but they don't match the greatest WrestleMania moment of all time. Show has never had that defining industry changing moment that André had and because of this I believe André left the better career in a similar perhaps even shorter amount of time. And regarding The Corporation I will say McMahon and The Rock feuding with Austin did a lot more in building into the Attitude Era then Wight ever did. From all of these moments I'm sure the only one that's deemed a classic is the Lesnar-Show Superplex. But again is that one moment an industry changing one?

    Where is that one career defining and industry changing moment that Wight had? This one moment and feud that André was apart of is one of the most memorable in the history of professional wrestling. He helped build the biggest star of all time in Hulk Hogan. This program helped put Hogan over as the next big thing. So not only was André apart of one of the biggest moments in wrestling history, he also helped build the biggest star the industry has seen. Tell me how Wight has done any of thing of that magnitude.

    If by staying in the public eye you mean the eyes of wrestling fans you stand correct. He had a few movie roles, that aren't on the level of André's major movie appearance in Princess Bride. Other than that he pretty much been in the eyes of wrestling fans other than that one year hiatus he had. And his career isn't as held in such high regard as André's was and still is. He is also isn't and never was on the same level of drawing power André was. The money he drew helped the business a hell of a lot more than it gets credit for.

    That one moment is one of the greatest in not only Mania history, but in wrestling history. That match and one move also legitimized the next huge wrestling star. That man Hulk Hogan is perhaps the bigger star wrestling has ever had. André in that feud with Hogan, helped solidify him as a top player. André also did the same thing when he was in a program with The Ultimate Warrior when they were building him up. That feud did Warrior a lot of good. André was a guy who helped put over and solidify talent in a way that Wight can't contend with. It's also a factor of his career that usually gets overshadowed unfortunately.

    Throughout all his health issues André always gave 100% in everything he did. It's one of the many reasons he is so respected in the industry. Throughout thick and thin he worked his hardest and always remained solid. And people always wanted to see him. He was a huge draw in the early years of major mainstream wrestling. He had to retire due to his health issues to benefit himself, but other greats such as Steve Austin had to do the same. But that's why you build stars of the future because you never know when the current big guns may have to step aside. But they prepared for such a tragedy by building up Hogan.

    That's a plus for Show, but again you can be the healthiest wrestler ever and never get injured but you may never have that big of a legacy. Wight's legacy for sure is huge but it's not on the level of the legendary André and that's all there is too it. The only thing in common between the two is their size, their legacies differ greatly in favor André.
     
  6. Cena's Little Helper

    Cena's Little Helper Mid-Card Championship Winner

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2008
    Messages:
    1,646
    Likes Received:
    1,495
    Good opening argument from Dave. He unfortunately didn't finish the debate, so I'm awarding 4 points to Spoodbeat (persuasion, punctuality, and informative) and 1 point to Dave (clarity of debate).
     
  7. Miko

    Miko WATCHA GONNA DO, BROTHER!?

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2008
    Messages:
    1,240
    Likes Received:
    1,254
    Clarity: Good opening post from Dave as usual

    Point - Dave

    Punctuality: I lied in an earlier round, its not just missing the deadline that'll lose you this point, not returning at all sort of does as well

    Point - Dave's penis

    Informative: Point goes to Spoodbeest

    Point - Spoodbeest

    Persuasion: Good opening argument from Spoodbeest and also came back to argue, Dave's one post doesnt buy it

    Point - Wee Dave

    My Scores;

    Dave - 1
    Spoodbeest - 4
     
  8. Phoenix

    Phoenix WZCW's First Triple Crown Champion

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Messages:
    1,630
    Likes Received:
    703
    Clarity of debate: Dave
    Great opening and understanding of the debate.

    Punctuality: Spoodbeest
    No response from Dave lead to an abrupt end.

    Informative: Draw
    Despite a short debate, a wealth of information was provided by both guys.

    Persuasion: Spoodbeest
    Much like my colleagues, this is more of a default point as this debate didn't get fully up and running which is a shame as it started so great, two points to Spoodbeest.

    Final Score
    Dave: 1.5
    Spoodbeest: 3.5
     
  9. D-Man

    D-Man Gone but never forgotten.

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2009
    Messages:
    744
    Likes Received:
    1,607
    I think tdigs said it all here.

    Final Score:
    Spoodbeest: 4
    Dave: 1
     
  10. D-Man

    D-Man Gone but never forgotten.

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2009
    Messages:
    744
    Likes Received:
    1,607
    After a complete judge's tally, Spoodbeest is the victor with 15.5 points to Dave's 4.5.

    Congratulations and great debating from the both of you!
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"