Round 1: Ellen Ripley vs. Mega Man

Discussion in 'Humans Section' started by The Doctor, Sep 8, 2012.

?

Who wins?

  1. Ellen Ripley

  2. Mega Man

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  1. The Doctor

    The Doctor Great and Devious

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    Round One

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    Ellen Ripley knows how to kick ass and handle a gun. The Blue Bomber has his wide range of usable powers obtained from a lifetime of robot-hunting. Both have the talent and the firepower to move to the next round, but in the end, there can only be one.

    FIGHT!
     
    #1
  2. AtmaDragoon

    AtmaDragoon New Member

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    (So, I would like to apologize ahead of time for this post. You all are putting on an interesting thought experiment for people to enjoy, and my over-thinking could be counterproductive to that enjoyment. Please let me know if I'm being too critical or overly analytical -- the last thing I want to do is cause undue aggravation.

    However, I do have some opinions that I'd like to share and points on which I'd appreciate some clarity, and it is in that spirit that I put forth the following for discussion.)

    Okay, so I have a number of thoughts on this. I think I will address them list-style.

    [1] Mega Man: Human or Super?

    I understand that the categories are more to differentiate between disparate levels of power and not simply separate the biologically human from the non-human combatants. That said, I'm not sure I agree with Mega Man participating in the Human category. When given access to his copied weaponry, Rock has the ability to stop time, reverse gravity, and cause meteors of pure energy to rain through the air, indoors or out. These seem to me to be very inHuman abilities, and grounds enough for him to be removed from this bracket.

    I could see Mega Man in the Human bracket were he to be deprived of any copied Robot Master weapons. His offense would be restricted to his Mega Buster (normal and charged shots) and the Jet and Power armors (unless corollary B under section 2 is out), and he would have access to various modes of mobility (Magnet Beam, Item 2, etc.). Of course, he'd still have the resilience of being a robot wearing friggin' combat armor, but there are ways around/through that.

    [2] What about inventory?

    Even disregarding the state of his weaponry, Mega Man has numerous extra equipment and items he can acquire in certain games, some of which afford offensive advantages. There are the ubiquitous Energy Tanks he's been collecting since Mega Man 2, which would certainly give him an edge in terms of longevity. One of Beat's Whistles would save him from a fall from a fatal height, and a Shock Guard would allow him to mostly shrug off being impaled on spikes. He could gain a homing rocket fist, greatly reduce his charge time, halve incoming damage -- even turn his charged shots into a piercing laser beam. Should any of these be included in the considerations for matches? And if so, which ones?

    As a corollary to this, there's a couple other things I'd want to be sure of: A. Mega Man's inherent abilities, and B. the availability of additional assistance (Rush/Beat/Eddie).

    A. Rock hasn't always been able to charge normal shots or slide, and in more recent titles he has reverted to the classic Jump-and-Shoot Man -- is it reasonable to assume that has access to these extra maneuvers by virtue of compacting his character over numerous games into a single presence?

    B. Is calling in extra robo-power allowed? In-game they're treated as extra weapons (or for Eddie, as an item in the newer entries), and they teleport on-scene (except for Beat, who flies). And speaking of teleportation...

    C. Is it assumed that Mega Man teleports into the area of the fight, and then can't leave the same way? For that matter, where are they fighting and what are the limits of the "arena," so to speak? Does leaving that arena constitute a loss? Is the only victory condition that one combatant kill the other, or would incapacitating an opponent be acceptable?

    [3] Ripley vs. Mega Man

    Just looking at the basic premise of this matchup -- armed Ripley vs. armed Mega Man -- the scales are thrown almost completely in Mega Man's favor. He has a vast arsenal with which to assault the hapless human, some of which don't ever require aiming. I'm not sure how effective a pulse rifle is against an armored robot, but if the army of the Mega Man universe is considered comparable to the army of the Alien universe, then it will have pretty much no effect on Mega Man (since the army can't contend with Robot Masters, and since Mega Man defeats said Robot Masters, it stands to reason that the army wouldn't be able to contend with Mega Man).

    Now, if the only weapon at Mega Man's disposal is the Mega Buster, things get more interesting. Ripley has time to find cover while the blue bomber chases after her, and depending on the surroundings might even be able to come up with a cunning plan to eject him into space/cause him to fall to his doom/impale him on a giant, jagged piece of titanium/etc. Mega Man isn't necessarily know to be the sharpest crayon in the box either, so in this case I think it'd be a matter of Mega Man's accuracy vs. Ripley's cunning, and I feel she could very well pull a win in that scenario.

    But in thinking through all this, it occurs to me that even with every weapon known to Monsteropolis, Mega Man might actually be unable to win this fight due to the fact that Ripley is a human being. He's had plenty of experience taking out fellow robots with the assurance that they were programmed with evil intent and could be rebuilt. He has only fought against humans when he's believed them to be evil, or dangerous enough to other humans that they must be stopped (and even then, only battled them while they were in some giant robotic contraption). To my knowledge, he has never actually harmed any human, ever.

    So if the only condition for victory is for Mega Man to kill a human, then I'm pretty sure he loses. He might be able to keep Ripley in stasis using an adjusted Spark Shock or Ice Slasher, or just wait until she runs out of bullets so that he can try to talk to her -- but I just don't think he'd be able to bring himself to end her life.

    ...Uh, so yeah, I think that's everything. Very sorry for the hugemongous post, and of course let me know if I'm overstepping any bounds or bogging down the game, etc. I haven't voted yet, but I'll try to check back tomorrow to see what's what.
     
    #2
  3. The 1-2-3 Killam

    The 1-2-3 Killam Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    It should also be noted that Atma contacted me privately, and expressed that he did not see the Tournament Rules thread before posting, and now understands that non-lethal victories are completely legit in this setting.

    I also support his points on Rock - having all of his abilities at his disposal - being more suited for the "Supers" bracket. But as that is not likely to change, I think that Mega Man should probably take this victory with relative ease. I can't think of a single boss battle in his realm that was less imposing than Ripley. Realize I'm not taking a shot at one of the greatest heroines in all of film, simply stating that in a universe where Mega Man is constantly doing battle with bosses like the following, I don't think Ripley has the means to put up much of a fight.
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    Again, that's nothing against her; she's a legitimate badass. If anything it's just another reason Mega probably shouldn't be allowed to compete with humans.
     
    #3
  4. Rainbow Yaz

    Rainbow Yaz Sing about me, I'm dying of thirst
    E-Fed Mod

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    People are really over rating Mega Man here. He is the definition of a glass cannon. He is pretty damn powerful but he has little defense. Ripley is crafty, she would find a way to exploit that. She has solid mechanical skills and could find a way to disable Mega Man's suit I'm sure. If she has access to the exoskeleton thing she used to defeat the Xenomorph with in the movie then I say she takes this.
     
    #4
  5. AtmaDragoon

    AtmaDragoon New Member

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    I'm not sure where the glass cannon idea is coming from. We're talking about a robot modified for combat, who can take multiple hits from other modified-for/straight-up combat robots that shoot swords, fists, fire, electricity, etc. He can die outright die from extreme falls, environmental impalement, and being crushed, but that's about it. (I would also argue that death spikes are specialized, heavy duty constructs that are not synonymous with any generic pointy object, or else Needle Man would be the most broken Robot Master in existence -- but really, they're just game shorthand for don't-step-here.) Could you perhaps provide some examples of what you're thinking of?

    Also, if we were talking about Proto Man I might agree; in Mega Man 9/10, he takes twice as much damage as Mega Man does in exchange for being able to charge his normal shot. Unless he's a double glass cannon?

    I agree with you here, in the sense that Ripley is very smart and can use the environment to her advantage, and Mega Man is more of a "good is dumb" type. I'm not entirely clear on what you mean by mechanical skills though, and I'm not sure how Mega Man's armor would be disabled (unless you mean punctured/torn apart/melted/etc?). If you wouldn't mind providing an example here too, it would help me out a lot.

    Don't forget that Mega Man has access to all his Robot Master weapons, including Super Arm (which allows him to lift and throw chunks of walls, boulders -- a strength boost). I'm not sure how the weight of Ripley + Exoskeleton compares to solid chunk of rock, but as it's a robot endowed with extra strength, I feel Mega Man would be able to put out just as much, if not more, lifting power. He's also a more compact target, but that might not be as much of a factor.

    But I mean, I think this is exaggerated by the differences in the level of technology of the worlds of these two characters. Ripley's future-earth has space travel, cryogenics and rifles that fire bullets, while Mega Man's future-earth has teleportation, time manipulation and robots that fire just about anything. Would you really say these things are on the same level, especially in terms of combat?

    And really, does Ripley even want to fight? From the entries I've seen (Alien, Aliens) that she is not one to crave battle, and only really takes up learning how to use weapons to kill the Xenomorphs, which she loathes. I don't see any reason for her to risk her life in this or any subsequent fight in the tournament: there's no one to protect, and I don't think she particularly cares about the result as long as it includes her being alive. And Mega Man won't want to fight her, either.

    So, unless the other Alien movies cause Ripley to hate everything robot, I think the real questions here are:

    1. Who can be incapacitated more safely?
    2. Does Ripley want to face additional life-threatening situations?

    In the scenario I'm seeing, where they both realize neither wants to kill the other and they start talking, I think it would actually be safer for Ripley to deactivate Mega Man -- he could possibly direct her how to put him into some kind of sleep mode and she would move on. Having Mega Man use weapons on her would riskier -- even nonlethal weapons like Chill Spike or Spark Shock could be dangerous to a human, as their nonlethal effects are originally in reference to robotic targets. It may be conceivable that he could modify them for a human target, but that could be a bit of a stretch.

    Is this all sounding reasonable? It makes perfect sense to me, but then again I'm the one thinking it up...

    Naw dude, he's constantly fighting bosses like this:

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    Mega Man's never heard of Storm Eagle -- that's X's realm of expertise. :p
     
    #5
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  6. justinsayne

    justinsayne Cody Rhodes is an excellant

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    I've noticed two things in this thread

    1- Megaman is being greatly overrated, the dude is not fucking invurable to attacks people, & he can be defeated pretty easily

    2-Ripley is being grossly underestimated. I understand Megaman has all his weopons & powerups & all that happy shit, but it's not like Ripley is unarmed, she has access to the Power-loader exoskeleton she used to fight off the Xenomorph queen, an incinerator, harpoon gun, M41A Pulse Rifle (which fires armor piercing explosive tipped rounds, as well as High Explosive Fragmentation Grenades, M51A Bounding Fragmentation Grenades, M60 White Phosphorous Incendiary Grenades, & M71A1 Starshell Grenades), & an M240 Incinerator Unit, which unlike the standard Incinerator can be used to create a temporary wall of flame. Ripley is also possibly the most badass, no nonsense, bitch on the planet, as well as off the planet, & she really does not have much of a fondness for cyborgs of any kind, seeing as how she was nearly killed by one. Ripley is coming into this fight just as heavily armed & trained for combat as Mega man.

    Personally I'd give Ripley the edge after all this is the bitch that has fought off swarms of Xenomorphs, an alien species that is incredibly hard to kill, so hard the Predators consider them the ultimate sport. What has Megaman done besides fighting off a bunch of poorly made robots?

    Ripley for the win in a close contest.
     
    #6
  7. Silly Willy Nilly Vanilly in the Milly

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    Mega Man is great on offense, yet fragile as fuck.
    Ellen Ripley is very crafty, and while she'd end up taking a few hits, she'd find a way to defeat Mega Man.
    Vote: Ellen Ripley.
    EDIT: Just note I did vote for Mega Man previously on accident- just in case it gets close!
     
    #7
  8. ABMorales787

    ABMorales787 Lord And Master
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    Well yeah. If Ellen can whip up a bottomless drop. Or a floor filled with spikes.

    I understand that and it definably put the fight between the two on equal foot. I give Megaman an edge, but because of the experience. He's programmed for fighting specifically.
    Wow. I really disagree with that one.

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    That last guy took over the future world and came back just to challenge Rocky. He lost. Poorly made doesn't really fit the bill for these guys. Or Bass. Or King. Or Duo. Or Terra.
     
    #8
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