Rock Region, Seattle SubRegion, Second Round: (5) Brock Lesnar vs. (12) Bob Backlund

Discussion in 'Rock Region' started by NSL, Apr 6, 2016.

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Brock Lesnar vs Bob Backlund

  1. Brock Lesnar

  2. Bob Backlund

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  1. NSL

    NSL Life's A Bitch, And Then You Mosh

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    This is a second round match in the Seattle SubRegion of The Rock Region. It is a standard one-on-one match. It will take place at the Key Arena

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    (5) "The Beast Incarnate" Brock Lesnar

    vs.

    (12) Bob Backlund


    [​IMG]

    Polls will be open for three days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.

    Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.​
     
    #1
  2. NSL

    NSL Life's A Bitch, And Then You Mosh

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    I'm not a Brock fan, at all, but I think he eats Backlund alive in this match. Backlund was great for his time, fine, but he's never seen anything like Lesnar, and wouldn't be prepared for the beating he would receive. I mean, he certainly wasn't ready for Nash, and we can all agree Lesnar goes over Nash, right?
     
    #2
  3. OYDK

    OYDK King Of The Ring

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    I think if we took all accomplishments out of the equation, Lesnar destroys Bob Backlund. Backlund's amateur accomplishments are nothing to sneer at, but I think Brock's power and athleticism alone would be too much for Backlund's mat based, technical style. How the hell is Bob Backlund supposed to keep Brock Lesnar in the Crossface Chickenwing? It wouldn't happen.

    Take everything else into account and the match is much closer. Backlund is still the second longest reigning WWF Champion, and has beaten many huge names throughout his career. Even still, I think the anti-Lesnar faction is going to have to find somebody other than Bob Backlund to put down The Beast. The guy is too much in the ring.
     
    #3
  4. Rainbow Yaz

    Rainbow Yaz Sing about me, I'm dying of thirst
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    Ech will tell you about all of Backlund's amateur accomplishments and will talk about how he was champion for a super long time, and he will be absolutely right. Backlund is an underrated guy, but Lesnar is something else, as boring as I find him.

    Lesnar has his weaknesses, but Backlund isn't the guy to find them.
     
    #4
  5. Tastycles

    Tastycles Turn Bayley heel

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    Backlund came back to professional wrestling after a 8 year hiatus and re-invented himself and tried to help improve the product and the credibility of the young wrestlers around him. Brock Lesnar returned after a 8 year hiatus and proceeded to suplex everyone and give absolutely nobody any sort of rub whatsoever except maybe The Undertaker, a man in his fifties and John Cena, who doesn't really need the help. Lesnar is an impressive sight and as a sideshow winning against Kane etc. I'd enjoy him. But he lacks the character to be a top pro-wrestling draw, by which I mean, I'm sure he sells tickets, but he alienates people to the wider product, as evidenced by the biggest percentage loss in ratings ever that happened when he was the guy during his first run.
     
    #5
  6. Pay Per Ghost

    Pay Per Ghost What they f*ck happened in the thread section here

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    This should be a great matchup, finally someone who can suplex THIS Brock around. Now Backlund, a multi year champion (kinda the norm of the era) accomplished so much but never the draw like Bruno before him or Hulk after.

    The 2013-16 Brock, is a draw. He is prolly right behind Cena when it comes to overall appeal. Brock is now undefeated in 3 years (technically Seth did beat him too) but thats a mighty fine record in this day and age. You have your part timers like The Rock and Jericho who win some, lose some but Brock is an anomaly and something the wrestling world hasn't seen for a while.

    In certain aspects, he is a throwback to the shooter era where the crowd perceives said pro wrestler as someone with legit cred. I'll take Brock here, just coz of how special he is.
     
    #6
  7. Bernkastel

    Bernkastel Reaper of Miracles
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    Backlund wins this match. Easily. And here's why...

    - He was a dominant champion for a whole lot longer period of time. 5 years. He defeated everyone of note there was to beat in the WWE at the time. Hogan, Graham, Iron Sheik, Ventura, you name it. Brock would not just steamroll over Backlund. Bob was able to match strength with guys like Hogan and Graham. He was Kurt Angle throwing 300 pound musclemen around like rag dolls years before there ever was a Kurt Angle.

    - Backlund was a more successful champion. He was one of the WWE's top drawing cards ever. He was the one that bridged the gap between Sammartino and Hogan. And unlike Hart, who would later bridge the gaps between Hogan and Austin, he did an amazing job. Brock was not a strong draw during his first run. He was not a strong draw during his time in Japan. Now he's used as a special attraction that still doesn't garner all that much interest. Even after 2 years he still uses "I beat the streak" as a selling point. It is literally the only thing of major note the guy has ever done.

    - Brock Lesnar doesn't care about the pro wrestling industry. He doesn't. He works limited dates and half asses most of his matches. The fans give him a pass for some insane reason because he's legit when they never gave a shit about guys like Ken Shamrock and Dan Severn 15 years ago. And they had far more talent as pro wrestlers than Lesnar ever did. Backlund lived this business for 25 years. He owned the late 70's and early 80's. That was his era. He came back years later and reinvented himself for a hugely successful second run, and defeated biggest wrestling star in the world Bret Hart. Brock Lesnar was used in the mid card of Mania this year. Probably for a number of reasons, but it demonstrates that Brock is not that important of a headliner in any capacity. Eventually Brock will lose, and it will probably be against Roman Reigns in underwhelming fashion. All of Bob's major losses meant something. His loss to the Iron Sheik was shocking and it opened the door for Hogan to eventually take the reigns. His loss to Diesel solidified Nash as a major star. Even Nash will tell you this. What has Brock Lesnar ever done to put anyone over? Especially in his current run?

    So to reiterate, Backlund...

    - Was a bigger star
    - A bigger drawing card
    - Had more mass appeal
    - More charisma
    - Didn't sound like a 10 year old girl when he spoke
    - Wasn't a special attraction that WWE only uses whenever it's convenient but not because he's really needed.
    - Held a period of uninterrupted dominance as a full time star a lot longer than Lesnar as a part time star.
    - Could match Lesnar hold for hold.
    - Could do more than 2 moves a match.
    - Actually cared about the industry and didn't show up just to collect a paycheck.

    Take the rose colored glasses off. Lesnar is shit. Realize this and vote someone actually deserving of winning.

    Bob Backlund.
     
    #7
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  8. Rainbow Yaz

    Rainbow Yaz Sing about me, I'm dying of thirst
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    Sorry Ech, but I gotta stop you there. I know that Backlund had a very successful amateur career. He was a D2 champ at 190 pounds, and moved up to heavyweight and still was top five in the country. I'm not even going to try to take that away from him, because it would be foolish of me.

    It is however foolish of you to try to say that Backlund, who was about 240 soaking wet could match the athletic freak of nature that Lesnar is hold for hold. You can run down Lesnar for being lazy, for not caring about wrestling (and he doesn't, he just recently did an interview where he said he cares only about money), for spamming the same suplex over and over, for not giving anyone a rub, and I will be there right with you because its all true, but the one thing you can't take away from Lesnar is his athletic prowess and pure wrestling acumen. Backlund was a good amateur wrestler, Lesnar was one of the best amateur wrestlers of all time.
     
    #8
  9. Bernkastel

    Bernkastel Reaper of Miracles
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    Antonio Inoki in his 60's fought Lesnar in a hour long exhibition in the early 00's, and while neither could get the upper hand on the other, Brock was truly a monster at this time. He himself called Inoki a machine. Guess who has gone toe to toe against Inoki in his prime and has beaten him too? Bob Backlund. Are you really suggesting that Brock would just simply have his way with Bob Backlund, when legitimately he couldn't get the upper hand on an old man? No way in hell my friend. And the way that both are treated in kayfabe, Lesnar would not just walk through Backlund like he as done with others.
     
    #9
  10. Pay Per Ghost

    Pay Per Ghost What they f*ck happened in the thread section here

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    But this isn't the early 00s Lesnar we have in the equation. Inoki IS a machine no doubt and no way Lesnar was steam roling past him in Japan but Backlund for all his wonders just wasn't as successful as his predecessor or his successor. Both Bruno and Hogan beat him. But again, Brock is none of those men but he is a man who has gone 3 years without being defeated in these times where the streak no longer exists.

    Lesnar nudges this.
     
    #10
  11. Bernkastel

    Bernkastel Reaper of Miracles
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    Backlund's predecessor and successor were two of the biggest drawing cards of all time. Literally. They rank 2nd and 4th on the Matt Farmer scale of all time draws. How exactly is that a mark against Backlund's success, especially when Backlund ranks in the top 15 and Brock doesn't crack the top 50? That's really dumb logic.

    Brock is a part time star wrestling 6-8 matches a year. It's easy to go undefeated for 3 years when you barely work. Backlund went 5 years undefeated working 5-6 matches a week.
     
    #11
  12. SSJPhenom

    SSJPhenom The Phenom of WZ

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    Sometimes, just sometimes, kayfabe has to out weigh the other categories. This is one of those times and Brock would destroy Backlund.

    I'm well aware of Backlund's acumen and accomplishments, but in kayfabe, Brock would kill him. It also doesn't hurt that Brock himself is a multi time WWE Champion, legit draw, and an all around legit badass.

    Vote Brock.
     
    #12
  13. Bernkastel

    Bernkastel Reaper of Miracles
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    :lmao:

    No he wouldn't. The kayfabe argument is all the Brock Lesnar side has. And while Brock is very heavily protected he's not unbeatable or unstoppable. Cena demonstrated this at Night of Champions. It was a DQ loss for Brock that night, but Cena clearly had him on the ropes. In the blow off at the Rumble, Lesnar didn't even pin Cena. He pinned the wet behind the ears Rollins. The Undertaker KO'ed him at Summerslam. it was another Lesnar loss. They have shown that Brock is beatable. Bob could easily KO Lesnar with the crossface chicken wing.
     
    #13
  14. Pay Per Ghost

    Pay Per Ghost What they f*ck happened in the thread section here

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    No it isn't. Who is a part timer who is undefeated in these times? The whole idea of part timers is to put over main roster guys. See ER 2012 when Cena beat Brock or when H beat Brock. Brock is now happily running amok and is a marquee name second to only Cena in appeal.

    He broke a streak we never thought would go, he has beaten the top names like Cena, Punk, Taker you name it. This is a different beast altogether.
     
    #14
  15. Bernkastel

    Bernkastel Reaper of Miracles
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    And since 2014 who has he put over? I'll wait. Neither Cena nor Trips needed his rub. They were the ones that made Brock look better.

    Mark Henry was a strong candidate to nearly end the streak, as was Randy Orton. And even though neither did the point was that the Streak had served its purpose and WWE had been thinking about ending it years before it did. It is not like WWE had been planning on giving the win the Lesnar that whole time. Even that decision was made on the night of the show.

    2 years later and Lesnar still rides the momentum because he as nothing else to ride. At least Backlund had a reputation of a great champion that preceded itself.
     
    #15
  16. FunKay the Inevitable

    FunKay the Inevitable People Like Me, We Don't Play

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    If we're kayfabe booking this, as I did last round with Lesnar and Tanahashi, then this plays out similar to the Lesnar/Angle encounters of the past. They would try and go hold for hold and Backlund would find a higher gear at some point to push Brock, perhaps to his limits. Lesnar has submitted in the past, both via tap out and via pass out, and if Backlund can get the Crossface Chicken Wing locked on, he might have Lesnar in trouble.

    The major flaw with that argument is that Brock could feasibly break the hold with his raw power, not to mention his ridiculous speed. Having said that, Lesnar could also have theoretically broken the Hells Gate at SummerSlam last year (as he had done at Mania XXX) and didn't, eventually passing out. So what Backlund has to do is focus on wearing Brock's legs down so he has nothing to power out with. In the Chicken Wing, one arm is trapped and the face is raked, for lack of a better word, so the other arm is essentially flailing, trying to hit something.

    Would Brock allow Backlund to go for his legs? If Backlund's smart, and he is, he spends most of this match on the mat, trying to wear Brock out with basic submissions and leg themed attacks. Brock meanwhile is trying to use that raw power to welcome Bob to Suplex City and if Backlund stick to the mat too long, Lesnar's breaking out the ground and pound.

    So really its a case of Backlund looking to duck and run, while picking his shots, trying to elongate the match to the point where Brock is gassed and incapable of using that freakish speed and power combo as effectively as it would five or ten minutes in. If Backlund gets caught - and he has in the past as Diesel's WWF title victory shows - he's in a world of hurt.

    Its a hard fought battle, and I'm still not convinced either way. I need to mull over this a little longer.
     
    #16
  17. SSJPhenom

    SSJPhenom The Phenom of WZ

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    Use all the emoticons you want, Lesnar ain't losing to Backlund. Especially if you think he's tapping out or if you think Backlund is strong enough to keep him in the Chicken Wing to KO him. All of those defeats you mentioned came at the hands of some shenanigans and steel chains.

    It'd be different if we were talking about a legit tough guy that hasn't really done much in the business, but we're not. We're talking about Lesnar who has beaten everybody of note in the past 15 years. Who is a multi time WWE Champion. Who did the impossible and ended the Streak. Who is a legit draw for the WWE and who is a legit badass. Add all of that with the kayfabe argument and he goes over Backlund here.

    Vote Lesnar.
     
    #17
  18. OYDK

    OYDK King Of The Ring

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    Personally, I'm taking everything into consideration and I'm still going with Brock. The guy was something that had never been seen before in wrestling, it's a cliche but it's true. Within 5 months, Lesnar had defeated The Rock for his first world title. In his first year in the business, he pinned people like The Undertaker, Kurt Angle, Hulk Hogan, the aforementioned Rock, and he would (and should) have beaten Austin as well. In 2 years, the guy had already built himself a legendary career. 3 time World champ, KOTR, RR, 2 Mania main events, and than he would leave and win the IWGP Heavyweight title in his first NJPW match, and hold that for a good while too.

    I don't know where this idea that he wasn't and isn't a draw comes from. Why do you think every single one of the house shows he works is treated as a PPV? For the first time ever, Smackdown was nearly matching Raws ratings with Lesnar as champ. They started to decline only when the Big Show won the strap and besides, he was gone much too early to determine his full drawing potential the first time around. Bob Backlund was a great champion in an era of great champions, but Brock Lesnar was and is a once in a lifetime wrestler. His last run has proven that.
     
    #18
  19. Pay Per Ghost

    Pay Per Ghost What they f*ck happened in the thread section here

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    I doubt Brock needed that rub from Trips, that whole storyline was a clusterfuck.

    But thats what makes him breaking the streak even more special. Randy, Angle were serious choices that Taker brought up and this was during the infancy of its buzz. In 2013, the streak was a phenomena of its own and way more valuable and marquee. For Lesnar to break that means a lot.

    2 years later Brock still rides that momentum, very true. For a wrestler to keep him hype alive and doing it by being the T-Rex of wrestling is brilliant. He has added his on spin on what a monster does and thats alright.
     
    #19
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  20. Bernkastel

    Bernkastel Reaper of Miracles
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    I thought about this but I don't buy it. Neither Hogan nor Billy Graham have broken the crossface chickenwing with raw power. One slammed Andre [multiple times] at his heaviest and the other walked around with a near 600 pound bench press and matched Bruno in strength. Brock isn't stronger than either of them. And Bob's submission would leave him grounded while on his back. Not a good place to be.

    And Backlund had tons of strength. I have seen him handle Hogan like a small child, who was pushing 300 at the time. Same with Graham. Backlund's cut from the same cloth as Angle, and is of a similar size [he's bigger actually] and Angle did this...

    [youtube]wVs7-uFLYuY[/youtube]

    I have zero reason to believe that Backlund can't do something similar.

    As far as speed and endurance goes Backlund has the advantage. He's smaller and lighter. Brock may be a genetic freak [not like Backlund himself wasn't], but being 280 pounds of muscle limits even him. I have seen Backlund literally run circles around Hogan. And prime Hogan for his size wasn't exactly a slouch.

    Backlund is exactly the type of guy [Angle, Eddie, Benoit, Cena] that Lesnar has lost to in the past. He has all the ability in the world and the kayfabe protect to beat Lesnar.
     
    #20
  21. MrMojoRisin

    MrMojoRisin Championship Contender

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    Actually, it would be foolish to think that Backlund could not match Lesnar hold for hold.

    - Backlund was every bit the legit amateur that Lesnar was, and his wrestling gimmick was all about what a gifted, technical wrestler he was. Kayfabe or reality, Backlund at the very least matches Lesnar in this category
    - Backlund was considered to be an athletic freak. He does give away a significant size advantage to Lesnar (although it's not like Backlund was a small man), but his athleticism and strength were considered to be second to none. When it comes to his strength specifically, I'd have to say that Cesaro would be a good modern day comparable.
    - As for the size disadvantage, you have to bear in mind that Backlund was constantly fighting and defeating guys much bigger than him. The WWE as we know it today was bought and paid for on the premise of the babyface champion overcoming the odds of defeating the monster heel. That was their formula forever, and Backlund was a big part of that.

    You mentioned earlier that Lesnar has weaknesses, but Backlund isn't the one to find them. I disagree. In fact, out of the entire field of this tournament, Backlund is one of the few that can find and exploit them.

    I'm not saying that Backlund should win here. I'm not decided yet. But this would be an incredibly close, entertaining match, and it is easily one that Brock could lose.

    Again back to the strength thing, I present this.

    [​IMG]
     
    #21
  22. Bernkastel

    Bernkastel Reaper of Miracles
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    And what exactly is that, a big genetically strong guy that possesses legit fighting skill and looks nigh unstoppable? Wrestling fans have see a few of those in history already.

    All very impressive feats. However Brock just never resonated with the more casual fans. Brock was someone that WWE tried to push onto the fans synthetically instead of letting the fans grow on him naturally and it never really stuck.

    When I say draw, I mean drawing card. As in attendance figures. Last I checked we could still compare those across all eras. PPV buys we can't. PPV's buys didn't exist in the late 70's. As a drawing card Borck is weak and has always been weak. The guy might be useful for boosting the buys of smaller PPV's but for the big shows like Mania, WWE doesn't need his star power. He was in the mid card this year.

    Both shows were on the decline. Compare when Brock was champion to when Rock or Triple H or Hogan were champion.

    I have yet to see what is so special about Brock's current run. He is a novelty act that is only used when it is convenient for WWE to use him. He's an enhancement talent that really isn't all that good at enhancing others. He doesn't transcend pro wrestling. The name Brock Lesnar isn't bigger than the name WWE. Why should Brock Lesnar defeat a man that carried the company on its back for a half a decade? Because he's nigh unbeatable in kayfabe? Bitch please. Lesnar is exactly the type of opponent that Backlund would be booked to beat after months and months of buildup to get that big payoff.

    He most certainly did. Trips was the biggest star in the company next to Cena, and Brock had been gone for years. He was able to build some fantastic heat and momentum with that win.

    The streak certainly had grown in reputation, but at the same time it had outgrown it's usefulness. It's sad for this "one of a kind" personality and athlete to continue to ride the wave of the only significant thing that he's ever done. You would think by now, after 3 years that Brock ending the streak would trivial, but WWE continues to push him as the guy that ended the streak even though his feud with Taker is long over because that's all he'll ever be.

    Not really. It's sad. Brock continues to ride the momentum of a wrestler much better than him instead of forging his own path, while hardcore tout him as the greatest thing ever even though he hasn't done anything besides be a gloried novelty act that WWE doesn't really need to boost their credibility.
     
    #22
  23. Bernkastel

    Bernkastel Reaper of Miracles
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    :lmao:

    A 50 year old Undertaker was strong enough to do it, so you don't think Bob Backlund could. Have you ever seen a single match of Backlund's before?

    Who cares. A loss is a loss and it still reads an L by Lesnar's name.

    And Backlund didn't defeat everyone of note across a 15 years span of his era? Was he not a multiple time world champion in 2 different eras?

    The streak was well past its selling point. The loss was used to fuel a program between Lesnar and Undertaker. After it was done Undertaker went on to do other things, like have the co main event at Mania this year while Brock was stuck in the mid card, while Heyman continues to cry "the one that beat the streak!" because that's the only thing Lesnar has.

    Lesnar works 6 matches a year, how can he possibly draw? WWE uses him to boost small PPV's here and there, but they don't need his star power for big shows. Don't kid yourself. The WWE needed Bob Backlund's, and he did a fine job as a drawing card. His star power was far greater than Lesnar's ever has been.

    The kayfabe argument is all you Lesnar supporters have, even though it's been demonstrated that Lesnar isn't unbeatable. Bob KOing Brock in the chickenwing is an extremely realistic way for this match to end.

    Vote Backlund. Vote someone that actually cared about being a professional wrestler.
     
    #23
  24. SSJPhenom

    SSJPhenom The Phenom of WZ

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    A 50 year old 'Taker was able to KO Lesnar via submission only after he himself tapped out, which the ref didn't see, and hitting Lesnar in the balls.

    Don't get me wrong, I know that Backlund beat the best of his era too, but do the best of his era stack up to best of Lesnar's? I'd argue no. Backlund beat Superstar Billy Graham for his first title reign. Defended against the likes of Antoni Inoki(60 minute draw most of the time), Sgt Slaughter(out in first round), Bob Orton(not in the tournament), George "the Animal" Steele(not in the tournament), Jimmy Snuka(not in the tournament), Big John Studd(not in the tournament), Ivan Koloff(not in the tournament), and etc. He lost it to the Iron Sheik(not in the tournament), because he refused to lose it to Hogan. Then, after winning it again, he lost it to Nash in mere seconds. I'm saying that Brock has beaten more impressive and decorated opponents far more often than Backlund did.

    Spin it anyway you'd like. You can't dismiss Lesnar's accolades, acumen, or history. Again, add all of that to his kayfabe destruction of top stars and Lesnar wins.

    Vote Lesnar.
     
    #24
  25. Bernkastel

    Bernkastel Reaper of Miracles
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    And? It's still a loss. Lesnar could be done extremely dirty in this match and still be choked out. And it would still be a loss.

    I guess in your excitement you forgot to include Hogan, Bret Hart, and Graham. Hogan, Graham, Hart, and Inoki stack up well against Trips, Cena, and the Rock if you ask me.

    I haven't dismissed anything. Brock's accolades and accomplishments just don't compare to Backlund's and I have already explained why they don't.
     
    #25
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