Ric Flair's opinion of Bret Hart

[hinkey1]

For those of you who don't know, back in 2004 Ric Flair wrote in his book that Bret Hart was "not" a big star in WWE. He claims Bret never drew for WWF or WCW, and is only a star in Canada because they were starved for a true hero. Here is the clip where he admits it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCcVtMbFZKo

I personally think Bret did draw crowds in WWE, not to mention sold a lot of merchandise w/ his sunglasses. My question is, is Ric Flair on point with his remarks? Or is he full of it?!

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

This is a debatable topic. Undoubtedly, Hart captained WWE in its worst financial times (roughly from WM IX to XIII). But, how much of this is due to him, how much of this is due to the social stigma wrestling became following WWE's steroid scandal, and how much of this is due to competition from WCW is unknown.

Even if Hart drew poorly in the U.S., there is still the contention that he was a great draw in Canada and Europe. While I cannot deny Canada (especially western Canada, given his roots in Stampede Wrestling), I am unsure about his drawing power in Europe. Bret Hart goes on at length about how he drew in Europe in his book, but I think that he was only a factor in WWE's touring success there in the 1990s.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Although business wasn't great for WWE back then, I feel that Bret was a great draw and I also feel the bad business had more to do with Hogan leaving and the steroid scandal (frankly, it didn't matter who was champ back then, WWE was pretty much F-ed at the time). I don't know if there was better draw in wrestling history than Bret Hart outside of the U.S. (his fanbase in Europe, the Middle-East and Asia are bigger than anyone in the history of wrestling). Besides,outside of flairs first 2 title reigns, flair was champ for a lackluster company (WCW was absolute garbage in the late 80's early to mid 90's) and didn't draw well outside of the Mid-Atlantic territory where he is revered as a god. I think it's unfair to say Bret couldn't draw, especially considering the talent level of the WWE back then (Mantaur and the Repo Man Anyone?!!!) and also considering guys like Michaels and Diesel couldn't draw no where near the level that Bret Hart could when they were champs. I think flair has some sour-grapes from back in '92 when he had to drop the belt to Hart (BECAUSE FLAIR COULDN'T DRAW AS WWE CHAMP).

 

[SAVE_YOURSELVES_111]

Flair had admitted in his recent shoot inverview, that most of his stories about "Mick Foley" were just to piss Mick off, and now that they're good friends, he comes out and says that.

But yet, him and Bret aren't friends, and still proceeded to bash him, saying that people like...get this...these were the exact names he said...Harley Race, Hunter & Shawn don't respect Bret. Well it's not as if the latter 2, are any surprise, but Race has actually said numerous good things about Bret on many occasions, and DOES indeed have respect for him. So Ric again is trying to pull the strings with people he don't like.

Look, I have nothing but the utmost respect for Ric Flair, as a performer, he's one of a kind, and was truly great. Flair did indeed have the greatest career any wrestler could ever ask for. I don't think Flair is the GREATEST of all time, but I do think nobody had a greater career. I know that sounds like an oxy moron, but I'm sure some of you get what I'm trying to say. Flair is for sure a Top 10 of all time no doubt.

However, I believe his feelings towards Bret, stem from a bitterness Flair had about being notched down a peg by Bret during there program in late '92 after there arguements they had, in regards to there matches. Another thing I think, is that, Flair was given the ball to run with in the Fall again that year, but a month later, Vince decided to put the belt on Bret, just over a month later. Keep in mind, Flair was not used to having a short title reign like that, and not to mention, the one before that was only two and a half months, before he dropped it to Savage. In my OPINION, I believe it hurt Flair's ego a little bit, and I can understand that to be honest with you.

It's quite odd, that Flair had actually praised Bret's work behind the scenes, and doesen't deny that fact. And according to Bret, and RIC himself, they didn't have a personal vendetta during there time in WCW together, and didn't have much of a personal vendetta PERIOD!

So why the shots at Bret? I think because Flair's tight knit relationship with HBK & HHH, may have persuaded him to think a different way about him as well. Flair is praised beyond belief by most, and I'll be honest with you, I like him too. But he's letting what others think about Bret get to him, plus the past get to him. See, I know Dusty didn't exactly give Flair much of an easy time working together. But, they're still friends, so that's why you won't hear Flair bash him.

If Flair had a problem with Bret, he should just say what the problem is, and not start fabricating, and attacking the man's contributions, not to mention downplay them.

Look, I'm not hear to bring up Montreal, but wether you think Bret was right, or Bret was wrong, his legacy otherwise can't be refuted. Bret had the most loyal fanbase in Europe as well as many other countries overseas, and that's a fact, that even MOST of his toughest critics have acknowledged.

Flair said, "After Bret became champion, the company went to hell for a while". Newsflash Ric, the company was in HELL even before YOU were champion. And when things got rougher that weekend before Wrestlemania VIII, with all the expose specials, on Geraldo, Donahue, and even Larry King, Ric, you WERE champion. The company was in HELL! The company's HELL, in my opinion started when Dr. George Zahorian was convicted, and Hogan's appearance on Arsenio Hall.

Bret was what he was, the top guy, at the worst time. So even though he didn't draw as much as Hogan did, or Austin & The Rock would later on, Bret did everything he could, with everything he was given, and made it work. His fanbase was loyal, his merchandise was moving at rapid paces, he made good money for himself, kept the company afloat at there worst period.

While I believe the product now is mainly more inconsistent than it is terrible, you have to remember some of the assanine crap they dished to us in the mid 90's.

Oh as for Ric's pot shot at us Canadian's starved for a hero, you DO realize, that just because a lot of our athletes play for American sports clubs, doesen't make them any less of a hero in our eyes! Including Gretzky, who's STILL an icon here, as is Bobby Orr, who never played one game for a Canadian team. Also at the time of Bret's peak popularity here in Canada, we also had Donovan Bailey, the world's fastest man, who was also a Canadian icon for a few years.

Despite the respect I have for Ric, I think his opinions of Bret, stem from the wrong reasons.

 

[GrkVenom]

I think Ric Flair couldn't be more wrong. There is one little fact that he forgets to mention that is pretty relevant. It was because of Bret that people outside the US started watching wrestling regularly. I do not discredit Ric Flair for what he did for wrestling but there is no other wrestler other than maybe The Rock that would make someone an instant star after feuding with Bret or have been in a tag team with Bret, i.e. Steve Austin in the I Quit match and Jim Neidhart in the Hart foundation. Also a little tidbit of information, Bret Hart never injured anyone while he was wrestling, ever. That's why he is known as the excellence of execution. I have watched the Bret Hart DVD many times and if you haven't seen it then watch it. I haven't read the book yet but I heard it was a must read.

I forgot to mention also that this comes from the man that held down Jericho when he was in WCW and also in WWE when Ric got to the WWE and aligned himself with HHH and HBK.

 

[FlairFan2003]

First, even in his book Flair acknowledges that Hart wrestled some great matches, could rise to the occassion on a big show like summerslam or WM, and that many of his "failures" were directly related to horrible booking. What he really slams Brett for is his fued with McMahon and the accustaion that Brett used his brother's fatal accident to "grind his ax" with Vince.

Brett actually made a number of disparaging comments about not being impressed with Flair after Flair left WWE. Some of these made their way into the papers in Canada, although publicly backtracked on a lot of it when he first came to WCW.

As for Brett getting the title, in 1992 the Ultimate Warrior was being considered for a title run with an expected Warrior/Flair clash likely at Survivor Series. Hart wasn't in the picture. Flair's ear injury that sidelined him for a month and a half, even sending him to the Mayo Clinic, lead to the earlier than expected title switch. Warrior had not drawn like McMahon and company had hoped when he returned and wanted a lot more money, a bad combination with Vince. Warrior was also blamed for injuring Flair in the first place. With Savage wanting time off after his divorce and Scott Hall not established enough to be a credible world champ, Hart was in the right place at the right time. With Hogan and Piper gone due to the federal steroid investigation and Sid fired once again, everything fell into place. All things considered he did well.

No doubt the booking for all of WWE and WCW circa 1993-1995 could have been better, but Hart did as well as anyone else would have. He was a very good performer, although he was not as charismatic and entertaining on the mic as some guys, one of the reasons McMahon was pushing him aside for HBK in 96. And Hart was booked horribly in WCW, no doubt because Hogan didn't want him taking a piece of his spot. However, the list of guys who were missused between 1998-1999 in WCW reads like a Who's Who of wrestling superstars, Hart is just another name on that list.

Fact is, Flair probably never would have been that concerned with Hart at all if Hart didn't diss him in the newspaper. Hart certainly will never let Flair's criticism go. In some ways I feel sorry for Hart because he is often portrayed as being bitter about his career and towards so many ppl who helped push him to the top. Hopefully if that is true he'll eventually find some peace and let these old grudges go.

 

[willhunter32]

We can all try and read in to this situation, however , these two guys have two of the biggest egos in wrestling history. Not that its a bad thing. When I say they have huge egos, I mean they both worked hard at being the best in the world....every night. Unlike some of the paper champions, these two wrestled matches averaging 30-45 minutes a night for a long time...when others had 20 mins max. So, I am sure they both felt like they were the best...the only problem is, when you have two that think they are the best...opinions tend to collide. I watched both of these guys from 83-present and I have to say that they are similar in so many ways. BUT! I have also met these guys out of the ring. I met Ric Flair on several occasions when he rolled in to huntington or charleston wv and every single time I talked with him...as a kid nonetheless, he was always a kind man. He never acting like he didn't want to be bothered or anything...however, I met Bret and Owen in Huntingon around 1995 and he was the polar opposite. He just acted like he didn't want to be there at all....now, he could have been having a bad day or whatever, but, I saw Ric probably 15 times and never once did he act that way. The Horsemen always acted strangely nice when you met them...kinda weird since they were heels...but then you get introduced to Sting....he acts like he is bigger than talking to you. Thats how I felt with Bret too...Owen was really nice, but Bret acted like it was a bother at the autograph session. I know, alot of people say...well they are probably tired of doing those and all that....but hey...they way I see it, they are making huge money to do what they do...if they don;t like the ups and downs....find a new profession. So my thought on Bret and Flair, is Bret seemed to think he deserved the world...when he didn't get it...he showed it...flair took alot of abuse even when he wasn't being booked in the right way and still managed to be ric flair and not lose touch like bret did when leaving the WWE.

 

[cline00]

No disrespect to Ric Flair, but the man is a hypocrite. I think personally he has no problem with Bret Hart whatsoever, the whole Bret Hart was "not" a big star in WWE thing or Mick Foley "Glorified Stunt Man" was all just to get noticed to get people to read his book. Ric Flair will always be remembered as one of the greatest in this sport but for me personally I've lost a lot of respect for him in recent years. The reason why I say that is because from the time he signed with WWE all the way up until his departure he would continually bash WCW and most of the ex wrestlers and say how happy he was to see it go down, yet while WCW was in existence he would brag about how it was the "Greatest Wrestling Organization in the World". It just seemed to me like he was kissing up to whoever he was employed to, but I'm not just singling him out many wrestlers are bad for that.

The things he says about Bret aren't true, number one bret hart was a big draw for the WWE, if he weren't i don't think Vince would've put the belt on him and had him main event for all those years. Number two he posed the question if WWF were getting killed in the ratings by WCW then why did Bret go to WCW?...duh he went to WCW for the same reason guys like Hogan, Savage, Luger, Henan, Okerlund, Beefcake, Rude, Hennig, Hall, Nash and later on Mike Awesome did for that huge paycheck. I hate to say it but when it comes to the big bucks very few Pro Wrestlers have brand loyality.

Some of the guys Flair had his classic matches with Steamboat, Harley Race, Dusty Rhodes, Ronnie Garvin, all of those guys were huge draws in NWA but none of them were draws in WWF, with the exception of Steamboat but still he was nothing more than a mid card talent in WWF. Flair was a WWF Champion in his time there and the company was making money because those were still good times for WWF. I don't think it's fair for Flair to make claims like that Bret wasn't a big draw because he was Champion during WWF's low period. So was Bret Hart a huge star in pro wrestling..YES, did he draw as much money or reach the success of guys like Hulk Hogan or Steve Austin..NO, but for that matter neither did Ric Flair.

 

[tehblogger]

I'm sorry, this is Ric Flair? The guy who's a bigger douchebag than Hulk Hogan? The guy who sucks so much that even Vince figured he was better off severing as many ties as he could as quickly as humanly possible? And people on this board still take anything Ric Flair says seriously? C'mon. Compare, just for a moment, the records of Bret Hart and Ric Flair as people. Then let's all join in raising a united middle finger to Flair. Sure, they have beef stretching back a while. But Bret Hart has earned his dignity and his peace. Flair can just shut the hell up.

(oh, and yes, Bret Hart did draw, and in comparison he probably fairs better than Michaels does. Or 1990s Flair, for that matter).

 

[Scorpio8975]

Ok this is esentially the tale of two greats bickering back and forth like they always do in the wrestling business. I personally have read Harts book and it was one of the most captivating and intriguing reads I have ever enjoyed. Hart is undoubtedly one of the best the buisness has ever seen and his legacy will live on forever, I mean there IS a reason he's a hall of famer. Hart never had any problem putting someone over if it was the right call for the business. Granted Hart wasn't as charasmatic as a Shawn Michaels or a Hulk Hogan but he was so technically sound and had a ring presence that was unmatched. Not to mention he went over the top to make matches look amazing and make sure that the locker room respected him no matter what.

Flair is arguably the other half of wrestling in the 80's, the charisma, the style, the persona that was and still is Ric Flair. He had amazing matches with the greats like Steamboat, Harley Race, Dusty Rhodes, Stin and many, MANY others. Flair thought seemed liek a guy that was CONSUMED with backstage politics and put himself before the business. If him "getting in bed" with Shawn and HHH is a reflection of his past then yeah it would be justified to lose some respect for him. But damn Flair could draw and so that made him tolerable. In Bret's book he both criticized and praised Flair in his feud and in the end Bret says that he is very thankful and honored to have been in the ring with Flair, and that book was released recently. If Shawn and HHH have been in Flair's ear then they have been lying to our faces in things like Shawn's DVD about Shawn wanting to finally bury the hatchet with Bret (which would be good for both of them). This indeed seems like Ric was trying to pull the strings with both Bret and Foley.

Let's look at the facts. Both men will both undoubtedly go down as two of the greats of all time. Both are rightfully in many Hall of Fame's and remember...Flair did this 5 years ago. So a lot has changed who knows, they could be best of friends again and be laughing about all this.

 

[Miko]

Aaaah Ric Flair one of wrestlings most overrated hacks bashing one of wrestlings all time greats. Flair wants to talk about drawing power then he should remember being demoted to the mid-card as soon as Hogan and Savage went to WCW. Or maybe his NWA getting absolutely demolished by Hogan's WWF. Bret Hart was a danger to Hogan, Ric Flair wasnt a blip on the radar.

The thing about all this is Hart was WWF champ at a time when the NWO had formed, the steroid scandal and all that shit. Wrestling as a business was down and he still could do enough to keep the WWF afloat while they moved into the attitude era. Flair however couldnt draw when wrestling was going through a boom period, it took the likes of Sting and Luger to save Flair from complete failure.

Well I managed to give good evidence of Hart being better than Flair without even starting on in-ring work. In which Hart blows Flair out of the water, of course Bret Hart being an amazing wrestler is a fact that seems to be disputed by Flair only, seems about right seeing how watching many Ric Flair matches is comparable to having one's eyes scraped out with a rusty nail file.

 

[SinCityBlitz]

I like Bret and have hated Flair since I was a kid but Flair has outdrawn Hart. It's not even close. Flair carried a fed on his back for years while Hart never did. Flair put asses in seats for years and years, night after night. To say he didn't is just plain ignorance.

I also don't think it's fair to look down on a guy because he was champ when a fed was down. Bret did the best he could with what he could. It's not his fault that business was down.

"Some of the guys Flair had his classic matches with Steamboat, Harley Race, Dusty Rhodes, Ronnie Garvin, all of those guys were huge draws in NWA but none of them were draws in WWF, with the exception of Steamboat but still he was nothing more than a mid card talent in WWF. Flair was a WWF Champion in his time there and the company was making money because those were still good times for WWF. I don't think it's fair for Flair to make claims like that Bret wasn't a big draw because he was Champion during WWF's low period. So was Bret Hart a huge star in pro wrestling..YES, did he draw as much money or reach the success of guys like Hulk Hogan or Steve Austin..NO, but for that matter neither did Ric Flair."

The reason why those guys were not draws in the WWF is because Vince had no clue on how to use a guy who could actually wrestle. Or I should say he wouldn't use them since they weren't WWF born and bred. He was too busy trying to bury the competition. Bret Hart wasn't very good in WCW. Is that Hart's fault, no. Just like it's not those guys fault that they didn't make it bigger in the WWF.

 

[pyrusane]

I grew up about 30 miles south of Charlotte, so for me as a kid, Ric Flair wasn't just a wrestler, he was an institution. This was a guy I could watch tear down the house with Ricky Steamboat, then see at a local restaurant eating dinner with his family the next night. Flair made wrestling real for me. The question here, though, isn't whether Flair could draw or not. The man is synonymous with wrestling in the 80s and 90s, and is probably the only other guy besides Hogan that is universally identified with wrestling by even non-fans.

The question that was posed is: Could Hart draw? At the time that he was carrying the belt, I would say he was the best option the WWF had, so yeah, he could draw, or at least he could draw better than anyone else on the roster at the time. The downswing in business during the Hart era, as has already been documented, was due more to the state of the business as a whole, not Hart's ability to draw. Hell, HBK is widely recognized as one of the best performers ever, and yet WWF had it's lowest ratings when he had the belt. Do we blame that on Shawn? Well...some of you do, but honestly?

 

[Slam Master]

Flair is just a resentful old-timer. If you ask ten guys who worked with or around Flair during his career, 7 of them would say they disliked him. I've watched his matches from the 80's and 90's, and its the same match every time with goofy silly spots. Bret was the better wrestler, and his promos from the anti-American period were second to none. Vince let Bret go because he as becoming a liabilty in the sense that he was against the direction the company was going in and felt he should be the top guy, even when he was pushing the younger talent. Bret Hart was basically the wrestler-version of Vince McMahon; they were both spoiled, selfish sons of promoters who felt their personal values and opinions were what was best for the company. Flair wrestled in front of empty seats in the NWA and WCW during the 80s. Its documented by other wrestlers that there were a lot of empty chairs during that era in those promotions. Flair was always mad cus Bret bashed him for his wrestling "non-psychology" and Flair was supposedly the best ever...

Bret was the biggest draw ever in Europe and Canada. He also was one of the top-selling merchandisers for the WWF. He was champ amidst the steroid and sex scandals, and still they had great house show numbers. The PPVs he headlined all sold out. The PPV sales dropped because it was a transitional period for the WWF and there was a lot of controversy surrounding the company as a whole. Vince needed to move his company in a new direction and Bret was an old-school, heroes vs. villains kind of guy when the WWF was moving into the tweener period.

 

[Lu Nortd Court]

Ric is a bitter old bitch. Thats just it. Outside of his old horsemen buds and his new lovers HHH and HBK he resents and bashes most everyone that is great. He says Bret couldnt draw?? WTF...lol...Micheals in the 90's spent like 2 years on top and it was the lowest point in WWE history, financially speaking. Don't get me wrong I like shawn, but that's just fact. So why doesnt this old "slap, rake, woooooooo" boy say that shawn couldnt draw?? He singles out Bret simply because of 1992, and HHH and HBK's influence....thats it. Does Flair realize that there is more to wrestling than America? In Many, and I mean many places of the world Bret could out draw flair anyday. Bret in europe and canada was as big if not bigger than anyone...EVER. He actually should get Hogan respect for carrying a company in it's most dire time. Do I agree with all Bret does??? No. I think he did take the business to seriously and it was his downfall, but for ol' flabby tits to say he couldnt draw is insane. Shut up flair, please go away forever. Your time is up and all you do in take TV time and pushes away from younger stars by making us look at your over-rated ass. Wooooooooo