Religion- Good, Bad, or Crazy?

[Xemmy]

Religion has been going on for a few thousand years now, and has brought about some of the worst horror stories in human history. Unless you've lived under a rock, I shouldn't have to point out the specific ones. However sometime in the last hundred years, religion has begun to do some good. Feeding the poor, ect. However, many autrocities and corruptions still go on to this day (Catholics, Islam nuts, Westboro). Does the good that some of the religions manage here in the twentyfirst century outway the evil crap that's been carried out in God's name? My question is -Which side are you on and why?

Personally I'm an atheist just trying to stir the pot a bit here, which makes my answer to this question obvious.

 

[Serious Mozzarella]

Religion seems to be dangerous when it's taken way out of proportion, and bad even when taking it IN context. The entire concept of most religions in the world, particularly the three religions that dominate most of the world's population (Christianity, Islam, and Judaism), promotes anti-intellectualism in most cases, rendering it a sin to believe in any scientific theory that contradictions the origin of creation written in their religious texts.

The intelligent people who associate themselves with religion tend to try to manipulate the people who have a hard time thinking for themselves, so we have a legion of people associated with these religions ready to either

• make sure other peoples' freedoms fall in line with their religion's rules

• kill people for breaking the rules of their religion, even if the person doesn't follow their religion

• or manipulate laws set by their land's governments to fit their religious agenda

The only time I'll ever really be indifferent with a religion is if it doesn't affect my own life.

 

[Spaceman Spif]

It can be all three. Religion affects different people in different ways. People use religion for many different reasons. Some use it as a crutch, they do something wrong, say a few hail mary's and all if forgiven. Some use it and twist the 'word of God' into a meaning that helps them get their own message across. Religion has and will be used as a tool to start needless wars and battles.

Yet religion can do wonderous things for people. It can change their lives for the better, it can give them hope, something to fight for and a reason for living. It just depends on your intentions as to what you can get out of being religious. Take me, I do not agree with organized religion, I personally believe they just use their members as numbers to get the things they want, money and power. I do not believe that you have to go to a holy building once a week to get into Heaven. However if it helps someone to better themselves, then more power to it, Religion just isn't for me.

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

The only thing bad about religion is the fact that all religious people feel the need to convert everyone.

Fuck off and leave me to my damnation. You've seen the light and you'll be saved. Good for you, personally i don't give a shit. Keep banging on about it and i'll remove your tongue.

I don't go around knocking on doors trying to get people to let me into their home and spend 2 hours trying to convince them NOT to believe in God do I?

I don't strap a bomb to myself and walk into a public area to kill hundreds of people who DO worship Allah, do i?

So what the fuck is their problem? Why do they need to force their ideals on everyone else? In most religions, such actions completely contradict what their religion teaches.

Were most of these people ganged up on by several people and coerced into joining a religion, or did they choose to follow or simply went with the flow because the rest of the family does it? Most, of course, chose of their own free will to follow a faith, and if they did because their family does, then they're either happy to carry on doing it or they renounce their faith.

So why do those same people who chose feel the need to force faith on to us?

Have any religions done anything amazing to outshine the atrocities of the past? FUCK NO! NOTHING WILL EVER MAKE UP FOR THAT!!!!

..... But then again, at the same time, there's shit all point in blaming today's Christians, for what the Christians of the Dark ages did. It's not as if you sign up to a faith and they download an entirely new method of thought into your brain is it?

As far as i'm concerned, i respect Nihilists and Buddists more than any other religion. Mainly because they do what they want to do, and they let the rest of us do what we want to do and let us get on with it.

Believe what you want, but don't tell me what to believe. Sure, i'll be damned at the end of it all, but at least you're safe in the knowledge that you'll be welcomed into paradise with welcome arms............... right?

 

[PowerUp5000]

I don't think that religion is inherently evil, it is men of all nations that are evil and use it to their advantage. Christianity seems to be the religion most people like to take issue with and for good reason. If you don't understand it, there is a lot of stuff that can be taken out of context and seems rather ludicrous. If you focus on the Old Testament there is a lot of things in there that obviously don't fly today. I personally have been taught that the old testament is not a place to get hung up on, it is there to show us how badly mankind fucked up in interpreting the word of God. This is why we have the New Testament and the teachings of Christ, to show man how to get it right. If anything the Old Testament is there for us to learn from, not emulate. It is no secret that man had injected his own influence in most of the Old Testament in the name of God, that is where you get a lot of the radical bullshit like murdering homosexuals, women, sacrificing animals, strict guidelines about every aspect of living, and where a lot of the contradictions of the Bible come from as later Christ tells us to abandon those old fucked up ways, love a little more, treat each other fairly, and just quit being cunty.

Islam has come under fire pretty badly since 9/11 also for good reason. This is a religion however that does preach and practice violence despite what any of them choose to acknowledge or own up to. Those who say that's not the real Islam, are in fact not the real Islam themselves. Take a look, it is plain as day in the Koran. It condones violence openly. People who have called out Islam on this matter have consistently been targeted with violence and oppression with leaders of the Islamic world going so far as to issue bounties on those who have written things they disagreed with in the form of what is referred to as a fatwa(look up Salman Rushdie).

Here is an excepts from the second book of the Koran called "The Cow" it goes as follows

"Warfare is ordained for you though it is hateful unto you, but it may happen that ye hate a thing that is good for you and it may happen that you love a thing that is bad for you, Allah knoweth, Ye know not."

Later in the same book....

"Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities, lo Allah loveth not aggressors, and slay them wherever you find them, drive them out of the places in which they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter, and fight not with them at the inviolable places of worship until they have attacked you there, but if they attack you there then slay them, such is the reward of disbelievers."

Muslims often dismiss the savagery of this passage with that little part that says "But begin not hostilities" however most Muslims will act as though a disagreement about Allah being the creator of the universe IS the beginning of hostilities. Back in 2005 A Danish newspaper printed some editorial cartoons that simply had depictions of Mohammad which led to death threats from Muslim leaders to the cartoonists who were forced into hiding, and in the other 50 countries that the cartoons were also shown it led to Muslims rioting, attempted murders, violent protests. Yet again, more examples of the peaceful religion that is Islam. Don't even get me started on their views and treatment of women, it is purely misogynistic. Lets not forget about their "Honor Killings" as well.

Buddhism is a religion/philosophy that doesn't get a lot of flack but it does deserve it. They are every bit as bad as the other two, they just hide it well with pacifist rhetoric. For all their talk about inner calm and being one with everything, they sure are pretty sore sports about their religion being criticized too. Their ideas about reincarnation and karma are pretty flawed as well as they chalk up things like why some people are born handicapped and others are born gifted, religious acceptance or rejection, inequality in the world or why some live a short life. So mothers, according to Buddhism, if your child dies in their crib as a baby it's because they were a real piece of shit in their previous life, and the pain you are feeling is because you were too attached. That's pretty fucking cold blooded if you ask me. Continuing, Buddhism is a collectivistic, anti-individualistic(see the definition of Nirvana), poverty and selflessness cult. Take a look at how the Buddhist peasants live, and take a look at how the Buddhist monks live. One lives in huts without medicine or schools while the other lives in palaces enshrined in gold, you tell me. Their overly pacifistic approach or lack thereof an approach is also a detriment to the religion as often times Buddhist will avoid standing up for what is right, which is essentially standing up for what is wrong. Being indifferent to atrocities and hateful acts helps no one and does nothing to further peace and enlightenment.


The real bottom line, is that it all depends on the individual, how they embrace the religion, and where they take it. Some take religion to a dark place to justify their own hate, while others use it to move towards peace. I myself have underwent quite a transformation in my religious views, once being a highly devout Christian, now standing for NO RELIGION. As I've said, I don't believe that religion in and of itself in evil or bad. It is the people within the religions that have turned me away as they are often self righteous, overly judgmental, and mostly lack any real understanding of what the religion is really trying to teach. Wisdom can come from almost anywhere, and within a lot of religions there are good ideas and a great deal of wisdom. No one has got it completely right, nor will they as man is inherently flawed. I take the bits and pieces that I see in them and live by them plain and simple.

 

[RockFan89]

First, we should recognize that if one of the religions is actually true, then that particular religion is obviously good.

But lets say none of the religions are true and just look at the worldly benefits of religion. For one, religion gives people an objective source to distinguish right and wrong. Morality comes from something greater than ourselves instead of subjectively on an individual basis. Second, religion fills people with hope for a better life. People have the attitude that no matter how tough their life is now, they have something to look forward to later. Third, religion makes people feel loved and part of a community. Even if no one on this planet cares for you, the idea of a loving God always looking out for you is incredibly comforting.

The only thing bad about religion is the fact that all religious people feel the need to convert everyone.

You should see this video Penn Jillette, who is a strong atheist, did on proselytizing.

[YOUTUBE]ZhG-tkQ_Q2w[/YOUTUBE]

If you genuinely believe that anyone who does not believe what you do about God will go burn in Hell for all of eternity, shouldn't you go out and tell everyone? How much do you have to hate someone that you would not tell them that they are at risk of eternal damnation?

Have any religions done anything amazing to outshine the atrocities of the past? FUCK NO! NOTHING WILL EVER MAKE UP FOR THAT!!!!

In the last century millions of religious people have been persecuted and killed for their beliefs in communists countries like Russia, China, North Korea, and Vietnam that have banned religion. These rulers believed that religion was bad and should have been done away with. But should atheists be held accountable for that, of course not. Same goes for the other religions. The reason atheists keep making this argument is because its easier to point out such cases of extremism when such a large percentage of the population is religious and therefore a greater likelihood of extremist elements exists.

the three religions that dominate most of the world's population (Christianity, Islam, and Judaism), promotes anti-intellectualism in most cases, rendering it a sin to believe in any scientific theory that contradictions the origin of creation written in their religious texts.

Scroll down to the bottom of the page of this website to see a list of a bunch of well known scientists who were Christians:
http://www.adherents.com/people/100_scientists.html

Obviously a belief in God was not an impediment to science. In fact, religion actually motivated many people in the field of science to better understand God.

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

First, we should recognize that if one of the religions is actually true, then that particular religion is obviously good.

And how exactly does one determine which is the 'true religion'?

But lets say none of the religions are true and just look at the worldly benefits of religion. For one, religion gives people an objective source to distinguish right and wrong. Morality comes from something greater than ourselves instead of subjectively on an individual basis. Second, religion fills people with hope for a better life. People have the attitude that no matter how tough their life is now, they have something to look forward to later. Third, religion makes people feel loved and part of a community. Even if no one on this planet cares for you, the idea of a loving God always looking out for you is incredibly comforting.

Sorry, but this just reads like the same old tired Christian rhetoric being applied to religion on a grand scale to me.

- Society determines what is good and what is evil, not religion. Otherwise there wouldn't be a religious group that encourages killing 'infidels' would there? Because we'd all agree that killing is evil, and yet one religious group thinks it's ok to end the lives of non-believers.

- Some religions don't even have an afterlife. They have reincarnation as whatever the luck of the draw dishes out, so those religions have literally no guarantee of 'a better life'. You go from human being to tapeworm to horse to a parasite to fuck knows what, maybe another human.

-Other religions have multiple Gods and sometimes none of them are described as loving Gods at all, simply the creators who watch over us and smite us when we anger them.

You should see this video Penn Jillette, who is a strong atheist, did on proselytizing.

[YOUTUBE]ZhG-tkQ_Q2w[/YOUTUBE]

If you genuinely believe that anyone who does not believe what you do about God will go burn in Hell for all of eternity, shouldn't you go out and tell everyone? How much do you have to hate someone that you would not tell them that they are at risk of eternal damnation?

Because there is absolutely no evidence to support the theory that that will actually happen if you don't believe in some form of deity. It's called scaremongering. You're basically pressurising them to do something through fear and intimidation. Is that something that religious people should be doing? Scaring people into following your beliefs?

It's no different than me going around and telling people to burn their dead to ensure they don't come back as zombies. I've no proof they'll come back as zombies but a rotting corpse in the ground always leaves the possibility right? So should i tell people to dig up their loved ones and burn them because there's a chance they'll rise and feast on the flesh of the living?

Once upon a time i served a priest who'd just moved into the area, and he asked me if i'd be at church that week, and when i said no he told me 'that Satan would welcome me' and walked off, so he clearly didn't give a fuck if i rotted in hell did he?

There's a big difference between "knowing someone will be hit by a truck" and "believeing in a mystical world that no one has ever seen". I can show someone a truck coming at them, and then it's up to them to save themselves. I can't show God to anyone.

In the last century millions of religious people have been persecuted and killed for their beliefs in communists countries like Russia, China, North Korea, and Vietnam that have banned religion. These rulers believed that religion was bad and should have been done away with. But should atheists be held accountable for that, of course not.

Did i not say this already? I love how you quoted that one sentence and then completely disregarded the paragraph under it, leading you to repeat my exact point. Well done.

Same goes for the other religions. The reason atheists keep making this argument is because its easier to point out such cases of extremism when such a large percentage of the population is religious and therefore a greater likelihood of extremist elements exists.

A) Why have you labelled me as an atheist exactly? At what point did I say that i didn't believe in God in this post? I'm not claiming that i've never said it on this forum, but when did i say i didn't believe in God in THIS thread?

B) Your point is completely irrelevant in the context i was speaking. Nothing can ever make up for thousands of people being killed for ANY reason, never mind religious grounds. Religious mass murder is simply one of the most pathetic reasons. "We kill them because they don't believe the same stories as us."

Nothing the US government ever does is going to make it up to Japan for eradicating two of their cities and god knows how many people, plus those whose lives were irrevocably damaged due to the radiation.

Nothing the German people do will ever make up for the countless individuals killed in the holocaust, and i'm not just talking about the Jewish people here, i mean all the blacks, gays, and disabled people too.

Nothing can ever make up for mass murder, regardless of whether the perpetrators can justify their actions or not. NOTHING.

 

[Vanderhook]

First, we should recognize that if one of the religions is actually true, then that particular religion is obviously good.

This isn't really saying anything of note; You aren't making a point. It's like saying if you see the sun in the sky, it's day.

But lets say none of the religions are true and just look at the worldly benefits of religion. For one, religion gives people an objective source to distinguish right and wrong.

Not quite, the right and wrong are subjective to the particular religion.

Morality comes from something greater than ourselves instead of subjectively on an individual basis.

Arguable.

Second, religion fills people with hope for a better life.

It can also plague people with guilt, fear and anxiety. Example: homosexuals are often very conflicted and repress their normal behavior because it goes against their religious beliefs.

Third, religion makes people feel loved and part of a community. Even if no one on this planet cares for you, the idea of a loving God always looking out for you is incredibly comforting.

It can also make you feel like you are scum and deserve infinite punishment. Again, you could use homosexuals as an easy example.

You should see this video Penn Jillette, who is a strong atheist, did on proselytizing.

At work, sorry can't watch that at the moment.

If you genuinely believe that anyone who does not believe what you do about God will go burn in Hell for all of eternity, shouldn't you go out and tell everyone? How much do you have to hate someone that you would not tell them that they are at risk of eternal damnation?

The problem is, that this is rarely the case. Let's face it, people are rarely empathetic to strangers. Usually religious people trying to convert people are doing it to

In the last century millions of religious people have been persecuted and killed for their beliefs in communists countries like Russia, China, North Korea, and Vietnam that have banned religion. These rulers believed that religion was bad and should have been done away with. But should atheists be held accountable for that, of course not. Same goes for the other religions. The reason atheists keep making this argument is because its easier to point out such cases of extremism when such a large percentage of the population is religious and therefore a greater likelihood of extremist elements exists.

But in those cases, people weren't killed in the name of atheism; they weren't killed because they were religious.

Scroll down to the bottom of the page of this website to see a list of a bunch of well known scientists who were Christians:
http://www.adherents.com/people/100_scientists.html

Obviously a belief in God was not an impediment to science. In fact, religion actually motivated many people in the field of science to better understand God.

What are you talking about? Those people are often the targets of religious fundamentalists. Galileo was killed by the church because he was labeled a heretic. Religion certainly hinders science. One of the major reasons religion exists is to explain natural phenomenon, something science tries to explain in a legitimate manner.

 

[Cactus~Clothesline]

From my experience, religion usually leads to worse things than better. Don't get me wrong there are plenty of good things because of religion, but generally you get closed minded people or people not ready for the real world we live in.

I also know this isn't EVERYONE with religious beliefs, but I actually know people who take it way too literally. A talking snake in a tree? Jesus walked on water? I'm going to hell if I don’t' go to church on Sunday?

Those are the people who piss me off with this. Add in the people who think God or whoever they believe in tells them to kill someone...really?


Besides all that, every religion has so many holes in it, when you point them out to people it's all about "faith." It feels like such a useless argument when people respond with that instead of actually trying to discuss.

 

[Soapguy]

I originally wanted to respond to Rockfan89, but I see that has been covered twice, so I'm just going to answer the poster's original question.

Given my personal history, I should probably hate religion. I went to religion centered private schools up until High School, I came from a deeply religious family, I had that deeply religious family distance themselves from me when I came to the conclusion that religion wasn't for me, then I had them flat out stop speaking to me when I did the whole coming out of the closet thing. For some reason, I can't bring myself to believe that religion is inherently bad. It's one of those things that's dangerous in the hands of some and beautiful in the hands of others, but can we honestly say that those people who crusade, alienate, and kill in the name of one religion or another wouldn't find some other excuse to do the same?

I like doing volunteer work, that didn't stop once I became an atheist. I didn't become less charitable and I didn't become more of an asshole because I don't have anyone to answer to. The main difference between Catholic Soapguy and Atheist Soapguy is that the Atheist one gets to sleep in on Sunday and bartend at a strip club without feeling dirty.

Religious people are still people and if they happen to feel their opinions and way of seeing the world is absolute truth then their likely to believe that way no matter what their way of seeing the world becomes. They're bound to push their way of seeing things down people's throats regardless of what it is and are likely to live that life in hypocrisy no matter which way of life it happens to be. I don't really find religion to be the problem here, I think the general suckiness of some human beings are to blame. I whole-heartedly believe that that suckiness would still continue if religion were to completely melt away.