Referees...what do they do and should their roles be larger?

[giblet55]

So far I don't believe I've seen a thread on this, so I thought I'd throw this out there. It's a two part question. What does a referee REALLY do and should they be involved more with the entertainment side of things?

We all know what the referee's job is entertainment wise, but what is their real job? Entertainment wise it's to make decisions during the match, count pinfalls, call the for the bell on submissions, and in general, officiate using the rules of the particular match...but is this really all they do?

What do you think a referee's real job is? I've always felt, and I could be wrong, that they control the length of the match (slowing down, speeding up, and reminding the wrestlers that it's almost time for their match finish).

Also, should referees be involved more in story lines? I don't mean the classic I paid off the referee storyline, but I mean should we know their names by heart? Whens the last time you googled up info on a WWE Ref? Should they be involved in backstage segments and promos?

Sadly, the only referees I know by heart are: Earl Hebnor, Marty Elias, Charles Robinson, Nick Patrick, and Danny Davis. The only reason I knew any of their names or anything about them stemmed from their involvement in story lines. Hebnor for the montreal screwjob, Charles Robinson for the little Naitch program with Ric Flair, Nick Patrick because of the NWO, Marty Elias for singing in spanish to show Jillian and Lillian Garcia how it was done during a commercial on RAW, and Danny Davis for his wrestler/referee antics.

What do you think?

 

[bluejt16]

i remember reading somewhere that the refs job is to tell the wrestlers what to do during the match, not sure if that applies in the WWE but it would seem to make sense, as for refs in more story lines, no way. refs are there to just count the pinfalls and help push heels by getting knocked out during a match, there's usually 1 or 2 storylines involving refs per year and i think that's enough, in recent years i think we had charles robinson vs the great khali for some ******ed thing and of course we had the ******ed moment in the undertaker cm punk match.

 

[Trivia247]

remember between 99-00 the Ref "strike" in the WWE at the time when HHH kept beating refs up and they got tired of it. so they got some scab ref which the refs themselves beat up?

Earl was the only ref that really shoved back. that was quasi entertaining but that was still around the period they were cementing HHH as a main eventer in over the top ways that got smarks all annoyed.

 

[LigerBomb]

Refs

• Call spots/convey info when wrestlers are too far away from one another.
• Remind wrestlers of their proper ring positioning and camera "blocking".
• Give the workers their time cues.
• Legitimately check for injury and alert the backstage medical staff if their is a problem.
• Buy time/create diversions when things go wrong.
• Help set up and break down the ring (sometimes).

Other than that their job is to "officiate" the match and blend in with the background. Talent is talent. Refs are refs. They should not overlap except on rare occasion. Likewise, they should not be involved with storylines unless it makes sense and is a one off occurrence. They don't need, and shouldn't, have gimmicks/personas lest they steal heat from the heels or get over on the faces (which is a big no-no).

 

[CuddleBuns84]

remember between 99-00 the Ref "strike" in the WWE at the time when HHH kept beating refs up and they got tired of it. so they got some scab ref which the refs themselves beat up?

Earl was the only ref that really shoved back. that was quasi entertaining but that was still around the period they were cementing HHH as a main eventer in over the top ways that got smarks all annoyed.

Oh I remember that strike very well. I think it cost the Rock the championship in that 6 pack challenge.

Anywhose, I like the refs being the guys who have control of the match and give the wrestlers the cue for the Camera, and what to do for the crowd. Then to put on the illusion of the calling the match to create that realistic feel.

Now, what should the Refs be able to do. What other role should they play. Well as I read some sports articles, refs in other sports or creating or changing the rules.

I think every couple of weeks, just to get a crowd reaction, they should come out and create a stipulation for a match. For example: Due to the massive injuries being caused by the STF, John Cena will be disqualified and or fine up to $10,000 dollars whenever he uses the move.

This added stipulations could make some for bigger build up for matches. Say Edge and Cena are having a feud, and Cena goes nuts and locks the STF on. This making it look like Edge has driven Cena so insane, that he didn't the result or fine, he just wanted to hurt Edge, for all that he has done.

Kind of Creates a feel of a sporting event for the match. I think the WWE should have a head spokesperson for the refs. His main rule is to ban certain moves, or create certain stipulations that can create both heat, or cheer.

Other then that, the refs do their jobs very well.

 

[80s Dude]

What do you think a referee's real job is? I've always felt, and I could be wrong, that they control the length of the match (slowing down, speeding up, and reminding the wrestlers that it's almost time for their match finish).

This is the main reason for referees being involved in a wrestling match. In other sports, it is a lot more official seeing as other sports are, well, more official. But overall, a wrestling referee helps control the pace of a match. If you haven't yet noticed, look for the wire hanging out of the ref's ear. This is the radio that connects them with the back.

Hebnor for the montreal screwjob

The screw job wasn't so much a story line that Hebner was involved with. It was probably more real than some would like to admit. However, yes, he is famous for that. But there are a couple of other things he is somewhat famous for.
For example, back when Ted Dibiase was feuding with Hogan, he had "paid off" Earl Hebner to get the quick pin when Andre The Giant fought Hulk during a Saturday Main Night Event. During the aftermath, the real Earl came out from the back to show he had a twin (his brother Dave). The other example are when he was involved in the strike story line like others have mentioned, and when he fought with Nick Patrick during the Invasion storyline.

[*]Buy time/create diversions when things go wrong.

Good point. Just like how the ref bought time for Austin after Owen gave him that botched tombstone piledriver. He checked on Austin, and after he found out he was legitimately hurt, brought Owen to a corner to "admonish" him, buying Austin enough time to get it together to finish the match.

 

[CyDeez]

What do you think a referee's real job is? I've always felt, and I could be wrong, that they control the length of the match (slowing down, speeding up, and reminding the wrestlers that it's almost time for their match finish).

That is what I have always thought. I think about the question you asked, quite often actually.

I figured the ref would help them with the time of the match/event. Also, letting them know when a run in, or something similar to that is taking place. Also, they do actually put wrestlers over too, by their antics when a wrestler hits a move or something. A lot of refs sell a guy's move or finisher pretty well by the look on their face and the way they (refs) move.

 

[wrestlingking]

a refs job is to ref. i dont watch wrestling to see a ref get involved in some storyline. it gets boring that way.

would you watch raw to see some storyline with a ref, i think not.

 

[giblet55]

Well I agree with what a lot of what you guys said and I appreciate the responses. I guess I just feel like the Referees are an important part of the system and we often look past them and sometimes, aren't even sure of their names. I will say this, Jim Ross was pretty good about laying down some quick info on the ref during the match. Now that I think about it, he would say things like, "Referee Mike Chioda checking Edge to see if we've got a submission here."

I liked that he made a point to remind you who they were and what they were doing during the match.

Well, based on the feedback, it obviously wouldn't be a good decision to involve the referees in story lines, but what about a little more camera time here and there to sell a situation? For instance, Edge totally drills Daniel Bryan through a table after the match, referee calls for the disqualification as it's not a table match. Would it be out of line to interview that ref in the back to get some more details on what transpired? Maybe selling that much more how brutal Edge's attack was if that's what they were going for.

One other side note that I've noticed for years. Seems that part of what gets them the job is height and weight. The smaller the referee, the huger guys like John Cena and even Evan Bourne seem...

 

[80s Dude]

I liked that he made a point to remind you who they were and what they were doing during the match.

I Remember an old WWF magazine I had, where they had a spotlight on (then referee) Theodore Long. They showcased his transition into the WWF and how he was a grade "A" professional. That was a few years before he became the manager for Rodney Mack. It was interesting learning how he became one of the top referees. That sort of thing helps develop a "character" in the wrestling universe.

Would it be out of line to interview that ref in the back to get some more details on what transpired? Maybe selling that much more how brutal Edge's attack was if that's what they were going for.

I personally would not be offended if the ref got a little more involved with certain stories. Using your example, I think it would add to the story if say Josh Mathews went up to the referee and asked, "Why did you decide to disqualify Edge?" And he replied, "I saw his blatant use of a table during the match, and I had no choice but to disqualify him based on the rules". or something to that effect.

 

[CARLOSWRESTLING]

WHAT'S THE REAL JOB OF THE REFEREES?


*First off count pinfalls, count outside the ring, all of that we all know
*Represent an authority figure in the ring
*When wrestlers took a bump and are far away from each other, he goes to "check" their condition and there he tells them what's next in the match or gives him a message coming from the other wrestler, of a possible move they can do next.
*They also sometimes, used to carry the "blade", and give it to wrestlers moments before blading, or in modern days they carried the "blood bag", not always but sometimes they could to it
*They are communicated with the backstage area, specially in WWE, if they're running out of time Vince or any other authority tells the ref to order the end of the match quickly.
*In Gimmick matches they remind the wrestlers some things about the HIGH SPOTS, for example in a TLC match they could remind someone how to fall properly if is not much experienced in that type of match or just remind him of the spot and were to land or in which step of the ladder they should climb


That's it, refs are very important, they are there for the better communication of the wrestlers.

 

[RaTeDAwEsOmE84]

John Cone is the greatest ref ive ever seen. I have never had a ref jump out at me the way he does. check out Hardy vs Hardy "i quit match" at extreme rules cuz thats where i first really took notice. he now seems to ref for guys like Orton, Swagger and Mcityre very often. There have been plenty of times i wished he could be more involved in the storylines cuz hes just that good. Hes the total ref package in my opinion. I have gone as far as googling him. Yes it happened

 

[LitasRevenge79]

Okay...refs do all what others have named above, but if you look closely, you can also sometimes see an earbud in their ear, I've seen them before. So its almost similar to the announcers, its all being called by the higher ups in the production truck, they all are getting cues in a way. The wrestlers are getting cues from someone who's getting cues from someone else, getting cues on up the creative/production ladder technically. I mean I'm sure there are roles to be played. Charles Robinson was in a storyline a while back where Vickie made him fight Khali sometime ago, and then the Montreal screwjob pt.2 with one of the refs, and CM Punk, and Teddy Long. So they do try to work them in when there is a situation that deems it appropriate. But the one thing I want to know, and I've probably said this in another post somewhere, why can't they have female refs? I know they've done it on special matches in the past, like old bra and panty matches etc, but LEGIT female refs for LEGIT matches, not special guest refs, just like I've brought up before to have female commentators as well. I know they have female refs at some of the wrestling shows I've been to around my city for local shows. Maybe that's just another observation.

 

[Klown_Karnage]

Well, I'm not going to go into what refs actually do given that it's already been mentioned and I don't really have anything to add to it. However, I do have a comment as to whether their roles should be larger.

The ref's role is deceptive. It's actually pretty darn large already. With the exception of ref-less hardcore matches (extremely rare) the ref actually has a role about as big as the two (or more) wrestlers in the ring. He's in there all the time with them, often getting physically involved in breaking up illegal holds or the like. Sometimes the ref actually takes a few bumps himself, thus cementing his position as an active participant in the matches.

The role only seems small because it is part of their role not to get in the way of the talent and their big moments. They are not the center stage performers. They exists not only to officiate matches but also to facilitate the big moments. This was never, in my opinion, more obvious than with many of Eddie Guerrero's matches. The ref was often a key player both in taking bumps and in "getting fooled" by Guerrero. The ref is just as much a performer as the wrestlers, they just play a different role. Me, I have a heluva lot of respect for the refs in working arguably just as hard as the WWE talent and getting practically no recognition. It's a thankless job, often, but somebody's gotta do it.

 

[NC_BMAN]

Refs

• Call spots/convey info when wrestlers are too far away from one another.
• Remind wrestlers of their proper ring positioning and camera "blocking".
• Give the workers their time cues.
• Legitimately check for injury and alert the backstage medical staff if their is a problem.
• Buy time/create diversions when things go wrong.
• Help set up and break down the ring (sometimes).

Other than that their job is to "officiate" the match and blend in with the background. Talent is talent. Refs are refs. They should not overlap except on rare occasion. Likewise, they should not be involved with story lines unless it makes sense and is a one off occurrence. They don't need, and shouldn't, have gimmicks/personas lest they steal heat from the heels or get over on the faces (which is a big no-no).

**^REP^**

As a referee/ring announcer myself this is exactly what we do in regarding the business. We are to blend into the background and not be seen until we need to be seen as in regards to calling for the bell, counting the pin, etc....refs are just accessories to the match and business itself not the main part.

 

[The Raven's Epitaph]

I know you're new to posting, so I won't be too hard on your thread.

The referees are there to officiate the match. That's their only role unless it's Tim White therefore going through a suicide storyline with Josh Matthews.

Back on topic, I don't think their roles should be bigger. Vince already cut the use of commentators saying the referee's names while calling the match for personal reasons, whatever they were.

They're there to call the match down the middle and count 1, 2, 3. That is all. They have an important role in the match, of course, but they shouldn't have more glory than they're worth imo.