Recent Bret Hart interview

[Slam Master]

I was listening to Bret Hart on a radio interview plugging his book (which is great, I've read a few times) and he mentions how Shawn sabotaged him and drove him out of the company and destroyed his character on the booking and in the back. He also felt he was forced to say things he felt uncomfortable saying (HBK denies telling Bret to call him "gay").

Here's the thing: Shawn Michaels was pro-active in all aspects of the WWF. He was in the creative process, was always coming up with storylines and angles, and was involved with production meetings and TV meetings. If Bret was so concerned on the direction of the company and his character, why didn't he do anything? Bret's input would have helped. I'm sure if he went to Vince and told him he wanted to be part of the booking and creative he would have welcomed him with open arms.

I bet it would have also eased the tension between him and HBK because they would've been face to face in creative coming up with stuff together; instead Vince played head games with with one of them while the other wasn't around playing a role in their tension. Bret was the kind of guy that went to work and asked "what do you have for me?" instead of creating his own stuff. I'm a fan of both of them, but it seems like everyone who talks about Bret Hart or Shawn Michaels is one-sided on who's side they take. This is just being objective from what I got out of both books.

Bret also mentions some biased stuff about HBK in his book that if you read Shawn's it totally contradicts what Bret said because Bret wasn't there in creative and in booking (Pat Patterson was the one who suggested the ladder match at WM10, not HBK. Vince was the person that wanted Nash to kick out on a strong one from the superkick at WM11, and it was Pat Patterson's idea to have the Iron Man Match). For someone who was so passionate about wrestling, he didn't show it for input of the product. Besides coming up with a few lines in his promos or interviews he didn't come up with any angles or storylines. He either OK'd them or shot stuff down that was given to him.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Coming from a huge Bret Hart mark, I do agree with you on some points. Bret could of put more input into the creative process but he also comes from a place where you basically did what you were told, Bret was a great team player, and what he was best at was basically asking how high to jump (Bret did come up with quite a few things though such as it was his idea for his match at Summerslam '92 against the bulldog). You also got to remember also back in the day most ideas michaels came up with were basically "Kliq only" ideas as he wasn't much of a team player, he was mostly about himself (But at least he was coming up with ideas, even if he wasn't being much of a team player) which was apparent when he refused to drop the title to Vader at Summerslam '96 (which he should of done imo).
I do agree however that Bret should of been a little more vocal in the way things were run as it is the norm for many top guys these days (with Mysterio being one of the exceptions) and maybe his wwe career wouldn't of been cut short if he didn't just go with the flow (the attitude era was basically written without him in it and he was there at the beginning of it).

 

[Paradox100]

I've only read Shawn's book so far, but want to buy Bret's book, because I'm a big fan. Like you, I'm a fan of both wrestlers, I'm also on neither side of the fence with the two. I see the flaws of both sides, and how they both wronged each other. I understood that Shawn was taking a lot of time doing creative story lines. Shawn Michaels has always been a great wrestler, and he is also always had great promos. Bret Hart wasn't the same in the promo aspect, I think Bret just wanted to do what he did best, and that was wrestle. While Shawn Michaels knew he could entertain fans with both aspects of the business. That maybe the reason?

 

[bLu3xMeXx15]

There's been this documentary for a while now on Bret Hart where he's in a meeting with HBK and Vince talking about the "gay" skit. Youtube it.

 

[jericho3150]

There's been this documentary for a while now on Bret Hart where he's in a meeting with HBK and Vince talking about the "gay" skit. Youtube it.

If your talking about "Wrestling with Shadows" no such scene exists. YOu see Bret in the back of a limo telling the producers of the doc that he is uncomfortable doing it. But as for telling this to Shawn and Vince... not in the movie.

I read the Bret Hart book and it was great but there are many times he assumes a bit much. Like its been said already. Bret wasn't in the meetings.. he really has no clue what really went on in them.. The same goes for the kliques meetings with Vince. Maybe if Bret was more involved he might have saw that Shawn was doing first hand instead of just letting his imagination run wild.

 

[Slam Master]

If your talking about "Wrestling with Shadows" no such scene exists. YOu see Bret in the back of a limo telling the producers of the doc that he is uncomfortable doing it. But as for telling this to Shawn and Vince... not in the movie.

I read the Bret Hart book and it was great but there are many times he assumes a bit much. Like its been said already. Bret wasn't in the meetings.. he really has no clue what really went on in them.. The same goes for the kliques meetings with Vince. Maybe if Bret was more involved he might have saw that Shawn was doing first hand instead of just letting his imagination run wild.

100% agree. It is imagination, too. In his book Bret talks about having a great one as a kid and it must have carried over. In Shawn's 1999 shoot he said that whole seen in "Wrestling with Shadows" was bs. according to HBK he told Bret NOT to call him gay cus it bothered his dad and that it was Bret playing for the camera.

 

[samboisdead]

Wow Brett Hart. Great wrestler dont no about much else. I dont think I have ever hear Brett say anything good about anyone that wasnt a family member of his. Whose fault was all the bs that went on between him and Shawn. Well honestly I am going to guess that Vince signed Brett to a contract that he couldnt pay which we all no to be true. So for the most part instead of making Brett mad at him and having to go to court about the contract he used Shawn to make Brett unhappy and convince him to leave. I am pretty sure the whole Montreal thing was a work because I imagine the money hungry man Vince is would have probably sued Brett over the punch or at least sent him to jail for awhile to even it up. Anyway that is just my theory. I dont no the truth probably never will, I do no that Shawn acts likea grown up about it now and Brett acts like a little crybaby about it still so I guess I am going to jump on HBKs side.

 

[rajkaregakhalsa]

agreed- hbk was more involved and very hungry. remember, bret was working 300 days a year for 11 years straight and not to mention he was married and had 4 kids. hbk was a single guy and did not have anywhere near the grueling schedule that bret did at the time... that said, bret pitched a lot of innovative ideas to vince that were used (eg. ladder match, having diesel jack knife him through spanish announce table, take a front turn buckle, figure 4 on the ring post, diving between 2nd and 3rd rope out to the ring, using the steps leading to the ring as a weapon, angle w/ owen)... i think the difference between bret and shawn is that shawn was hungry to help himself and the clique make $ at everyone else's expense whereas bret looked out for most and was willing to make others look good. let's give credit where credit is due, even though hbk was selfish, he did have a small role in leading wwf towards the attitude era.. as far as integrity is concerned, i will take bret over shawn, eg. the homo comment, seeing bret has far more integrity than shawn. shawn is a proven and admitted liar. besided when the comment was made, shawn was on the booking committee and was giving the script to bret. let's not forget that shawn had no problem taking uncalled for personal jabs at bret's family. bret's jabs at shawn were against only his on screen character, never michael hickenbottom. if bret wanted to really jab at hbk personally he cud have made remarks about his pill popping, drug addiction and his insecurity- bret never did this.

 

[C4Mahdee]

So here it is for me friends and neighbors. When I was a kid I was probably the biggest Bret Hart mark you could find. When I got over Hulk Hogan at about the age of nine or ten it was the Hitman who took his place until the last few years. For a long time I was biased about the Screwjob. Of course I took Bret's side because Bret Hart was my hero (I know it sounds lame but bare with me).
The facts do speak for themselves though. From BOTH sides of the coin. When you go into an agreement with someone, especially a business agreement, it's pretty bad pool to flip the script and blindside someone who's busted his ass for you for 12 years. I know it's wrestling and this kind of crap has been happening for years, but this finally showed it to the world how snakey the industry we all love can be. So one bad for Vince, Shawn and company.
Bret Hart is without a doubt the most stubborn and stuck up guy I've ever seen. And remember I'd mark out for him to this day. He was a workhorse, but what he didn't get that the others did, was the change in climate pro wrestling was going through. He stuck to his "creative control" guns that he fought so hard to get. Bret Hart turned into Hulk Hogan basically and finally realizing this was a bummer. For him and his fans, because he turned into a whiny asshole. Being wronged is something to be angry about, but carrying a grudge as long and hard ("snickers" sorry) as he did is no good. No wonder he had a stroke.
Fast-forward now. At this point, I've read that Bret is finally beginning to get over this whole thing. Whether it was strictly business as the majority think or maybe the beginning of something new for the parties in question as very few (even the players) forsee. All I know is, if Bret Hart can move on and start to look objectively then so can the rest of the IWC and fans of both sides. Shawn Michaels has even been rumored to want Bret to induct him to the Hall of Fame when that time comes. Something Bret has laughed about, but didn't say no to either. Does time heal all wounds? Not sure, but if Bret Hart inducts Shawn Michaels into the WWE Hall of Fame one day, I will throw my arms in the air and declare myself biggest mark of all! It'll be sweet.
Sorry, had to end it on a fanboy note.

 

[byrnside]

I for one, am a big fan of both guys. I haven't read Bret's book yet, but it's definitely near the top of my list of things to do, or things to purchase. I've read almost all of the wrestlers books, HBK, Foley, Hogan, Jericho, Flair, DiBiase, etc. I've even read Triple H's workout book, which is very informative. But for me, and my opinion on the whole Montreal Screwjob. Bret should've done business. [If I can steal a page from Dwight Schrute] Fact, the very next night following Survivor Series, Bret was under contract with WCW. Vince had every right in assuming Bret was going to show up on Nitro and throw the belt in a trash can, hell, it had been done before. And if I was Vince, I probably would've done the same thing. And don't get me wrong, it wasn't ethical of Vince to do it, but neither are a lot of things that happen in business. Screwing Bret after 12 years of loyal service was definitely wrong. But I would NEVER put it past Bischoff to desecrate the title. I can understand Bret's hatred for Vince, between that and what happened with Owen, but I think it's time let ol' HBK off the hook. Shawn was just doing his job, plain and simple.

 

[C4Mahdee]

I for one, am a big fan of both guys. I haven't read Bret's book yet, but it's definitely near the top of my list of things to do, or things to purchase. I've read almost all of the wrestlers books, HBK, Foley, Hogan, Jericho, Flair, DiBiase, etc. I've even read Triple H's workout book, which is very informative. But for me, and my opinion on the whole Montreal Screwjob. Bret should've done business. [If I can steal a page from Dwight Schrute] Fact, the very next night following Survivor Series, Bret was under contract with WCW. Vince had every right in assuming Bret was going to show up on Nitro and throw the belt in a trash can, hell, it had been done before. And if I was Vince, I probably would've done the same thing. And don't get me wrong, it wasn't ethical of Vince to do it, but neither are a lot of things that happen in business. Screwing Bret after 12 years of loyal service was definitely wrong. But I would NEVER put it past Bischoff to desecrate the title. I can understand Bret's hatred for Vince, between that and what happened with Owen, but I think it's time let ol' HBK off the hook. Shawn was just doing his job, plain and simple.

I agree with most of what you said. However, to think a guy with the loyalty Bret had would show up on Nitro with the belt and toss it is not the kind of guy he was. I think that was Vince's excuse because he did do something snakey and had to defend himself. I know Medusa did it, but Bret Hart respected and loved the WWE title. Would I put it past Bischoff, not at all but Bret I would like to think wouldn't let that happen. Of course that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

 

[rajkaregakhalsa]

bret hints in his book that he felt somewhere down the line vince was gonna fuck him down the road cuz he used his leverage and got the best of vince in the last two contracts he signed w/ wwf. perhaps bret getting the best of vince, in particular in the last contract, where bret had the creative control and guranteed $ if he was injured, made bret too powerful and too difficult for vince to control. plausible theory: vince used bret as an example to others in that no one is more powerful to vince. if vince can screw his top dog, bret, he can screw anyone.

 

[byrnside]

bret hints in his book that he felt somewhere down the line vince was gonna fuck him down the road cuz he used his leverage and got the best of vince in the last two contracts he signed w/ wwf. perhaps bret getting the best of vince, in particular in the last contract, where bret had the creative control and guranteed $ if he was injured, made bret too powerful and too difficult for vince to control. plausible theory: vince used bret as an example to others in that no one is more powerful to vince. if vince can screw his top dog, bret, he can screw anyone.

That's a decent point too, but, I don't really think that's why Vince did it. Vince had already proven no one was bigger than him time and time again. Just look at the Warrior for example. The Warrior was shunned after he tried to leverage Vince, saying he wouldn't go on if Vince didn't give him more money, I think it was Summerslam '91. Vince agreed, and as soon as the match was done and the Warrior was back in the locker room, he was promptly fired.

 

[Slam Master]

I've heard it from both Vince Russo and Vince McMahon that they didn't trust Eric Bishcoff in that situation. He pulled dirty tricks on live TV while him and Ted Turner openly admitted they wanted to put WWF out of business. It wasn't about distrusting Bret Hart.

Despite the loyalty of Hart, Vince couldn't take the chance with one single wrestler, when 10,000 guys helped make the company what it was. If Vince had the brass to bury Hogan, which he did near the end of his WWF run when he was the most successful wrestler to that point, then I don't see why anyone would doubt him screwing someone like Bret.

Vince made the decision to let Bret go based a few things; he felt his time as a top draw and "the" guy were done and he wanted Shawn in that position. something that Bret obviously didn't like. Bret was openly speaking out against the direction of the company and being stubborn with his holier-than-thou views, but wasn't coming up with any solutions or helping with the fight against WCW. Shawn, as much as a pain in the ass as he was contributed to all aspects of the production of the show. He was on the booking committee cus he was hungry and ambitious, and really wanted to help the company recover. Bret very well could have joined HBK and the rest in the creative process, but chose to leave it to someone else while having a pissy attitude towards the stuff they were coming up with and shooting it down.

The WWF presentation was turning into a show for characters like Austin, DX, Nation, etc., and Bret's heroes vs villains was just outdated. I like Bret as a worker and he's in my top 3 favorites of all-time, but these are facts that led to his WWF demise.