Raw for Adults/Older Teens, Smackdown for Kids/Families, ECW for the niche audience

Sedated

Pre-Show Stalwart
The WWE has three shows (or brands) not counting superstars for (What I hope are) obvious reasons.

ECW started out trying to semi replicate the original ECW, that quickly went down hill and turned into what is essentially now a televised farming system for young talent.

Now the company as a whole has taken over the PG rating and with the PG rating comes a certain mind set to the product.

Here's what I can't help but wonder. Why?! The WWE has insisted on trying to pretend that Smackdown and Raw are two seperate entitys that compete with one another. Yet, for the majority of the brand split both shows have had the same type of program being produced. Hell, I'd go as far as to say that all too often the shows tend to mimic one another.

It felt like a eternity that HHH was the champion over at Raw with the evolution stable. What was happening over on Smackdown? JBL was champion with a cabinet stable to back him. If memory serves they even finally dropped their belts at similar times. I think more often then not the shows just tend to follow in the other ones foot steps.

Hell, look at the main events coming up for survivor series.

Both main events are the champ vs a tag team.

Sure it's not always the case but I personally have noticed both shows tend to follow certain trends.1

Moving on to the point at hand. Why can't the WWE offer us three different shows with three different styles? Why isn't Raw tailoring to 13+? While Smackdown is tailored to the kids? Why isn't ECW tailored to 18+? With fast paced wrestling and/or hardcore wrestling?

It doesn't have to just be limited to age demographics, there are lots of things it could be. One show could be more story focused, while another show focuses on wrestling. One show could feature a more x-division style of wrestling, while another is more classic wrestling. The possibilitys go on and on.

Some might argue that it's almost been like that at times, or that one of the shows is more heavily wrestling focused then the others. My reply to that would be bullshit, plain and simple. Sure at times ECW has the most actual wrestling compared to the other two and sure at times Smackdown was a lot more kid friendly compared to Raw. These occurences are random though, they very rarely (if ever) seem as if they are a fully thought out action, goal or long term plan. If you're going to do it, make it known these are your intentions! Brag about the fact that Raw currently has the most in ring wrestling time of any other show or w/e the hell.

ECW gets the exact same ratings now as it did when it 1st started for the most part. Yet they are two totally different shows. Smackdown always come in behind Raw in the ratings, even in spight of when Smackdown is putting out a slightly better product.

To me this means one thing: Things do not happen over night. People love to talk about "Was this weeks Raw guest host a draw?!" "Did this match draw?!" "Did this gimic draw?!" I'd argue it's not about one offs, it's not about how good was that specific show. It's about consistency. It's not about tuning in each and every week and hoping you're going to be pleased. It's about tuning in because you know what that show offers you is going to please you. That takes time, a plan and word of mouth.

The WWE needs to stop focusing on one audience at a time and focus on at least 2. There's just no reason not to. All three shows will more then likely get the exact same ratings in the short term. In the long term? All three shows can get higher ratings. Three different distinct styles means it's a lot easier to make each show unique. It also means each show is going to broaden its viewer base over time.

It wouldn't happen over night but I think in the long term it would be very profitable for WWE and we the fans would get a lot more out of it.
 
Look Vince thinks that the world revolves around RAW and that ain't never gonna change lets be honest! Even if SMACKDOWN! was live it wouldn't matter cause in a way the WWE need a Premier show.

I look at the PG/Brand split like this.......

1. We dont get fed up of superstars seeing them more than once a week
2. It makes storylines ! Brand Warefare ! When it gets old then maybe they'll fire loads of people but they'll have to be good wrestlers. If you watch Normal Attitude ERA matches they were solid with not many botches cause they had guys who they could count on t perform. Now they have more guys than they can handle and they have more jobs and money oppurtunites available :D SMART GUY !
3. The PG thing really is just to help Linda in Senate but Vince is a smart guy and is doing whats best for his family
4. If he really wanted he could buy TNA ( More Superstars ) or run them out of bussiness but Vince is like the evil mastermind in a Bond Movie ......he wants to watch the competiton slowly climb and then watch them squirm when he ruins them. Genius i say !

Smackdown is more Of a good wrestling show when you watch it with with not much story so thats its style.
Raw is a story based show with the main event climaxing the story for the week.
ECW is also a good wrestling show but does botch often and brings up young talent sho there's the variety :p

TO BE THE MAN YOU'VE GOTTA BEAT THE MAN
 
Look Vince thinks that the world revolves around RAW and that ain't never gonna change lets be honest! Even if SMACKDOWN! was live it wouldn't matter cause in a way the WWE need a Premier show.

I look at the PG/Brand split like this.......

1. We dont get fed up of superstars seeing them more than once a week
2. It makes storylines ! Brand Warefare ! When it gets old then maybe they'll fire loads of people but they'll have to be good wrestlers. If you watch Normal Attitude ERA matches they were solid with not many botches cause they had guys who they could count on t perform. Now they have more guys than they can handle and they have more jobs and money oppurtunites available :D SMART GUY !
3. The PG thing really is just to help Linda in Senate but Vince is a smart guy and is doing whats best for his family
4. If he really wanted he could buy TNA ( More Superstars ) or run them out of bussiness but Vince is like the evil mastermind in a Bond Movie ......he wants to watch the competiton slowly climb and then watch them squirm when he ruins them. Genius i say !

Smackdown is more Of a good wrestling show when you watch it with with not much story so thats its style.
Raw is a story based show with the main event climaxing the story for the week.
ECW is also a good wrestling show but does botch often and brings up young talent sho there's the variety :p

TO BE THE MAN YOU'VE GOTTA BEAT THE MAN

It's amazing how every bullet point you hit has zero to do with what this post is about. Did you even read it?

1. So if there were three different brands offering three different products we'd somehow get tired of seeing the same superstars? They're STILL different brands, wtf bro.

2. Huh? Wtf does this have to do with anything? Who's the smart guy anyway? Vince? Way to come into a topic and just start praising his name for no real rhyme or fucking reason.

3. We get it, you REALLY like vince.

4. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you REALLY like vince, amirite?

Next time you post, try to keep it on topic. As for saying each show already has their own style, I disagree. The only show close to having its own direction/style is ECW and that's only because they use it for their young and unexperienced talent. Either way, it's misguided as the formula they use in ECW is a wreck. It also goes against everything I was saying a show needs, which is structure and a set style. You can't have either when you change the roster every other week.
 
I love the whole idea of 3Brands-3Styles. It would make it cater to everyone, even draw in fans more so then now. I meen think about it, people watch TNA because its edgier, hardcore, blood for god sakes, so what if there was the old ECW, I know I know ECW is working the way it is but it can still work Hardcore style and develop the rookie's. Then you have the original ECW fans come back, plus everyone 14+(Cause we all know Teens will watch 18+ shows if aloud) and you are almost stealing TNA fans.

Then you make Monday Night Raw the 13,14+ show, you bring back foul language and make the storyline's edgier, back to the way Raw was 4 years ago in the Cena -vs- Edge era time of Raw, that will bring the teens in cause its cool to hear your favorite wrestler tell that wrestler you fucking hate that he as well fucking hates them, bring back the blood, and you can get the ECW fans to watch because its edgier plus you get some more TNA fans because its essentially TNA style but WWE makes it better version.

Then you have Smackdown! become your Kid Friendly PG show, guys like Rey Mysterio and John Morrison run the place, this is were all the kids come to play, and then, all the PG Kids that would have watched Raw and ECW are all watching Smackdown! thus boosting its rating, thus makes more money.

Now what you would have to do is separate the PPV's, Smackdown! can't be on a ECW PPV's because its to blood reined, so now you could have 12 PPV's a year, 3 PPV's for each show and the Big 4, that gives each show about 6weeks in between each PPV, thats pretty dam good, plus then you could even add the Title matches from all three if you really wanted.
 
I think the problem is that there is too many championships. Having a WWE Champion and a World Champion kind of diminishes the glory of the top champion. Yes the WWE is spread too thin with its talents. They really need to combine both smackdown and raw with the championships. The roster split has also destroyed having great tag team matches and champions. I would say keep ECW for the younger talent. But combine Raw and Smackdown like it originally was. The move will create strong champions and a better product. Then they can get rid of all there filler talent.
 
I love the whole idea of 3Brands-3Styles. It would make it cater to everyone, even draw in fans more so then now. I meen think about it, people watch TNA because its edgier, hardcore, blood for god sakes, so what if there was the old ECW, I know I know ECW is working the way it is but it can still work Hardcore style and develop the rookie's. Then you have the original ECW fans come back, plus everyone 14+(Cause we all know Teens will watch 18+ shows if aloud) and you are almost stealing TNA fans.

Then you make Monday Night Raw the 13,14+ show, you bring back foul language and make the storyline's edgier, back to the way Raw was 4 years ago in the Cena -vs- Edge era time of Raw, that will bring the teens in cause its cool to hear your favorite wrestler tell that wrestler you fucking hate that he as well fucking hates them, bring back the blood, and you can get the ECW fans to watch because its edgier plus you get some more TNA fans because its essentially TNA style but WWE makes it better version.

Then you have Smackdown! become your Kid Friendly PG show, guys like Rey Mysterio and John Morrison run the place, this is were all the kids come to play, and then, all the PG Kids that would have watched Raw and ECW are all watching Smackdown! thus boosting its rating, thus makes more money.

Now what you would have to do is separate the PPV's, Smackdown! can't be on a ECW PPV's because its to blood reined, so now you could have 12 PPV's a year, 3 PPV's for each show and the Big 4, that gives each show about 6weeks in between each PPV, thats pretty dam good, plus then you could even add the Title matches from all three if you really wanted.

This gets into the actual workings of it a little more then I did and 99% I agree.

Another possibility is that as each brand builds its own fan base and each started to really stand on its own two feet, the WWE wouldn't need to "just" have 12 ppvs. They could easily have two a month with out letting anything get stale. Parents would be ordering the ECW or the Raw PPV for them self, then you have those same parents ordering Smackdown for their kids.

Also, the Roster stops becoming spread so thin in this scenario because WWE has finally laid out a true direction. This means "trading" Batista over to Smackdown has much more consequence then it currently does. It's something that has to be thought over from a lot of different angles. Right now they trade people over just to fill up the roster or create a new feud. When Rey Mysterio is selling a ton of merchandise to the kids, you can't just wake up one day and decide to trade him over to ECW. You have to put real thought behind it. This forces them to actually fill out each Roster instead of leaving gaping holes.

Lastly, belts once again become worth something when each show truely feels seperate from the others.

It is by no means a stretch of the imagination that given some time and some dedication to make it work the WWE could have THREE shows getting the ratings of Raw. (Possibly more) Sell aprox. twice as many PPVs and sell more merchandise on account of having more wrestlers to market since they actually have to fill their rosters. Not to mention they'd also be doing another set of house shows for the third brand.

Hell, even a show like superstars at that point becomes semi interesting because it'd be more like watching worlds collide. There's just ZERO fucking reason not to do it. I think it's something every fan would like to see happen, if you say you wouldn't I honestly don't know what's wrong with you AND if done right would be extremely profitable for the WWE. It just blows my mind how after all this time the WWE refuses to do anything...
 
I think ECW is a joke basically, there is nothing extreme about it. If they were going to have the style of wrestling the current ECW has and brew the younger guys, they should have brought back WCW. ECW's history, name and reputation ahs been destroyed as there is no more extreme moments. Where as it's just wrestling with no added pressure of former hardcore fans and they could still get younger talent through.

And stop this PG rating SHIT :banghead:
 
Though off the top of your head, this idea seems like it really could work, in practicality, it would fail dismally. When shows are variety shows, it means people are going to tune in to see their part, and end up watching the whole show. No one has the ability to tune in on the exact match they were watching for, so they either watch the whole thing or watch until the part yhey were watching for. So all the different types of people watch.

To put it in perspective, lets say theres only 3 types of wrestling in the world. Entertainment, Hardcore, X Division.
Lets say you have 10,000 X Division fans, 10,000 hardcore fans and 10,000 entertainment fans.
If the thee shows are geared towards different types of people, they get 10,000 viewers each.
But if they each have combinations, everybody will be willing to watch, and each show gets 30,000 viewers each.
So it makes more buisness sense to have a mix.
 
I disagree I think that the WWE should split up the three shows and make each one a specialty for a particular audience.

Since TNA has no chance of eveerrr taking on the WWE :rolleyes:. Why can't Vince tinker with his product and make it more appealing.

What demographic besides the little kids want to watch a dumb Leprechaun run around ? I want to see more violence more blood more brutality which simply doesn't happen now.

Tell me how can Vince appeal to two audiences now ? He is alienating his adult demographic and his young adult male demographic.

I don't think that Leprechaun street fights are the answer do you ?

No divide each show up and use one for a more PG friendly show one for a more out of bounds push the limits show and one for a pure wrestling show.

Why wouldn't this work ?

(P.S. all of this is Sidouses idea I'm just reaffirming it here.)
 
I have been quite adamant for about 2 years about the three separate Brand/product concept. The goal of it is not to split the audience you currently have, but rather to actually build and grow the entire wrestling fanbase by specifically targeting and marketing programming that is actually tailored to each group's target interests.

But the one question I have for people who are proponents of the concept is this. What would you do with the PPV's? Let's say you have the three shows with 3 different audiences. How would you work the PPV's into the fold for shows that have different ratings? Do you alternate them every other month? Do you find a way to combine the Brands and tone down the Raw Brand (TV-14) for the combined shows? Or are there other suggestions?

Making this decision is absolutely critical to making the variety programming work. So what are some suggestions?
 
Raw can be the edgier show and use it's storyline driven style to promote their matches even further, but appeal to the older teens and young adult audience. SmackDown could be more a wrestling show and let the wrestlers perform a hell of a show to draw in the crowds and the kids ofcourse with great matches. ECW, while the roster does change frequently, provides a nice variety and balance of promos and matches.

I think each show needs to stick to it's current formula, but with some tweeks. Raw should attend to older audiences, and SmackDown should appeal to the kids, with ECW staying the same, but new wrestlers should only come once a year. Just way too much changing going on there.
 
I have been quite adamant for about 2 years about the three separate Brand/product concept. The goal of it is not to split the audience you currently have, but rather to actually build and grow the entire wrestling fanbase by specifically targeting and marketing programming that is actually tailored to each group's target interests.

But the one question I have for people who are proponents of the concept is this. What would you do with the PPV's? Let's say you have the three shows with 3 different audiences. How would you work the PPV's into the fold for shows that have different ratings? Do you alternate them every other month? Do you find a way to combine the Brands and tone down the Raw Brand (TV-14) for the combined shows? Or are there other suggestions?

Making this decision is absolutely critical to making the variety programming work. So what are some suggestions?

For discussions sake and because this seems to be the set up most people went with.

Smackdown (PG)
Raw (TV 14)
ECW (TV 14)

In the short term, things remain the same. Only, you give ECW a 2 hour show and no PPVs. You have a monthly big show that has a card like a PPV. This would go a long way to getting people into the product. Once that starts getting over I think you try to seperate Smackdown. Let it be known that this is the safe haven for the little ones. This has your John Cena, Your Rey Mysterio, Kofi Kingston, Hornswaggle.

Eventually, the PPVs should have about a 2-3 week gap between each other.

Raw and Ecw joint PPV / Smackdown PPV.

Raw has your HHHs, Edge, Untertaker, Kane, Randy Orton.

Ecw would obviously have guys like Tommy Dreamer, Evan Bourne, possibly John Morrison and uhh nobody else really off the top of my head that's currently on the roster haha. , it doesn't just have to be all tables and ladders. Solid in ring work is good as well. This is where you go to see the amazing, the innovative and the daring.

The PPV set up would actually be something similar to how TNA used to run their PPVs. Was a mix of fast paced x-division from the likes of AJ Styles, Samoa Joe etc. then you had some great hardcore mixed in from guys like Abyss and Sabu and then you had your more classic heavy weight matches. I was a huge fan of TNA when they really stuck to this formula, overall ppv match quality seemed better to me at that time as well but that's a discussion for another topic I suppose.

Eventually, it'd even be possible to have a 3rd PPV going.


Though off the top of your head, this idea seems like it really could work, in practicality, it would fail dismally. When shows are variety shows, it means people are going to tune in to see their part, and end up watching the whole show. No one has the ability to tune in on the exact match they were watching for, so they either watch the whole thing or watch until the part yhey were watching for. So all the different types of people watch.

To put it in perspective, lets say theres only 3 types of wrestling in the world. Entertainment, Hardcore, X Division.
Lets say you have 10,000 X Division fans, 10,000 hardcore fans and 10,000 entertainment fans.
If the thee shows are geared towards different types of people, they get 10,000 viewers each.
But if they each have combinations, everybody will be willing to watch, and each show gets 30,000 viewers each.
So it makes more buisness sense to have a mix.

Yeah ummm... and when a show has almost zero variety like it does now, where in the fuck does that leave it? I really don't follow your logic here.
 
Lord Sidious hit it. How do you hold PPVs n such with 3 seperate audiences? You don't. Doing this would KILL the PPV side of things and don't think for a second that Vince would do any such thing.
Also, to move a wrestler from one show to the next could be awkward. You can't go from a foul mouthed sob to PG. You think creative has issues now? lol
There'd be too much to maintain in keeping the shows seperated in this fashion. Having the 3 shows distinguish themselves differently in presentation and style I'm all for.
 
Lord Sidious hit it. How do you hold PPVs n such with 3 seperate audiences? You don't. Doing this would KILL the PPV side of things and don't think for a second that Vince would do any such thing.
Also, to move a wrestler from one show to the next could be awkward. You can't go from a foul mouthed sob to PG. You think creative has issues now? lol
There'd be too much to maintain in keeping the shows seperated in this fashion. Having the 3 shows distinguish themselves differently in presentation and style I'm all for.

Well, keep in mind that it is a concern. I'm not saying that it isn't possible to do this, but it is a pretty big obstacle. The question is how to overcome it.

What I would really like to see is some business-minded individuals put their thinking caps on, and pretend that we are all sitting here at a board meeting.

If our #1 concern as a company is to actually grow the entire fanbase, and we are convinced that the way to do this is to make a strong effort to target 3 key demos in our weekly shows ... then how should we handle the PPV's?

PPV revenue accounts for some 40% of total annual revenue for WWE. It isn't necessary for each show to do 5.0 ratings. Rather, what is more important is expanding the entire WWE fanbase so we have the most fans possible to spend money on our products. So if hypothetically in doing this strategy .... if Raw can do a 4.5, Smackdown can be brought up to do a 3.0, and if ECW falls to a .7 in doing this strategy, I would be okay with it ... AS LONG as the Total # of fans in the entire WWE fanbase increases so that we have more fans to spend money.

Keep in mind that I don't necessarily need my entire audience watching all 3 programs. That isn't important. What IS important is that the total # of WWE fans increases.

Now, with PPV revenue being our key source of revenue, does anyone who supports the 3-Brand concept as the best way to increase the size of the overall WWE fanbase (which equates to more people to spend money on WWE products and services) want to share their views on how to handle the execution of the PPV's?
 
Not that I'm at all supposting this idea, but I thought I'd use my superior intellect and yes, I'm joking, to think of a way to engineer it in a way to make PPV's a viable option for a widespread audience. Basically you are dealing with 2 main types. You have a family friendly oriented product a la WWE today, and then you have the old Lord Sidious special, the Adult targeted "attitude" product. The way to balance this out I think, would be to utilize technology that has become available to us in recent years. Namely, something along the system of TiVo or a DVR.

If PPV's are filmed beforehand, a feed could be sent to a persons DVR. They could request which matches they want to see, or which matches they would like to skip. Then, a feed would be sent to a family friendly consumer who doesnt want to see a first blood match, and a comedy match can be skipped for an 18-45 demographic viewer. Obviously I understand a certain number of problems with this, regardless of technology, namely the fact that you are stripping away the live factor.

It's hard to skip a match and give a seamless feel if it hasn't happened yet. Thus, the way a PPV is conducted would have to be changed. The linear way would have to change, although the risk of spoilers getting out may ruin the product entirely. Oh well, theres my thoughts, and although it's not foolproof, its an idea.
 
I'm surprised that no one has brought up the early history of the brand split. When it started, Raw was the "sports entertainment" brand with Vince's usual creative team, with the NWO revival and ultimately the Katie Vick debacle. SMackdown was the more "athletic wrestling" show, with the Smackdown Six (Angle, Benoit, the Guerreros, Edge and Mysterio) and Brock Lesnar with Paul Heymann as lead writer. EVen Undertaker was doing the American Badass biker gimmick. Meanwhile RAW was the Triple H show with Bischoff as on-screen ringmaster.

The shows felt different. As for the PPVs, the big four were dual-brand and the rest alternated. This is how we got from 12 to 15 or 17 PPV, remember?
 
It's definitely a good idea in modern society to diversify. There's no point in trying to make the Beatles of wrestling again because it isn't going to happen, just like there isn't going to be another Beatles. There is too much choice in the world for anyone in any artform to be able to cater for everyone. In the brands, the WWE has the potential to make three very different products, and they started going that way when ECW first launched.

I don't see that this would be that much of a problem for the company, and it would also allow them to develop stars that perhaps would never be in a more holistic product. For example, somebody like Tyler Reks could be a big deal in a programme aimed at kids, but will never be as he is in the current product.

The point raised about PPVs is certainly an interesting one, but I don't think it matters. It's true that PPV is a huge source of revenue for wrestling promotions, but it is also true that around 90% of the wrestling audience don't watch them. Even WrestleMania only draws 25% of the Raw audience in its best years. The people who buy PPVs are the hardcore fans who will probably watch all three shows anyway. It depends how far they go in each direction, but in all honesty, I don't think it's an issue. It wasn't that long ago when we had The Godfather on the same PPVs as the child friendly Too Cool.
 
I love this idea it would solve many issues albeit creating new but in my opinion lesser ones.

What ten year old kid watches wrestling until 11:00 on a school night ? Who's parents would be that irresponsible, not sure why Raw can't be driven towards an edgier more controversial raunchy show targeted at young adult males and wrestling "traditionalists".

Why can't Smackdown a show that ends at 10:00 on a non school night be driven towards kids and families ? It only makes perfect business and logical sense.

ECW could easily be a strict wrestling based show a cutdown on promos and just straight technical wrestling would make lots of fans happy.

Send stars that fit the profile of each show to that program and then you actually maximize their talent instead of constraining it.

I understand the PPV's would be more difficult to market but that's a lot easier of a problem for a genius like Vince McMahon (sarcasm) to figure out he is doing such a good job now (more sarcasm).
 
While I love this idea of having 3 completely different shows, I have some pluses and minuses I’d like to discuss.

The only way this would work is if the Brand were kept completely separated with no interaction between characters from each show, except for the Big 4 PPVs and the yearly / bi-yearly Draft and maybe a King of the Ring PPV / Tournament.

The issue with that is, ECW and Smackdown is taped on the same day, meaning the “older” audience and the “younger” audience will be mixed. You have to think about the fans that are there at the shows itself too, not just the ones at home watching.

If ECW were to get two hours on its own and taped on a day by itself, who in their right mind would go to an ECW only show?? Unless we start getting some big names on that show (I suggest Hunter “What’s Best” Hearst “For Business” Helmsley and the Brothers Of Destruction or go in the opposite direction and get Paul Heyman and RVD back), I don’t know one person that would buy a ticket to see ECW for the same price as seeing Raw or Smackdown, let alone December to Dismember (Remember that $40, no I didn’t get the PPV, but I almost got the DVD for $#!+s and giggles).

A lot has to happen for this to work and I think Vince is just keeping it simple…stupid. I love the idea of Raw TV-14, ECW TV-MA (moved to HBO and bring back a better version of Extreme Expose), and Smackdown TV-PG but I also love the way it is now.
 
The PPV set up would actually be something similar to how TNA used to run their PPVs. Was a mix of fast paced x-division from the likes of AJ Styles, Samoa Joe etc. then you had some great hardcore mixed in from guys like Abyss and Sabu and then you had your more classic heavy weight matches. I was a huge fan of TNA when they really stuck to this formula, overall ppv match quality seemed better to me at that time as well but that's a discussion for another topic I suppose.

Eventually, it'd even be possible to have a 3rd PPV going.




Yeah ummm... and when a show has almost zero variety like it does now, where in the fuck does that leave it? I really don't follow your logic here.

Well, WWE is a variety right now, which you can see from the numbers. Jericho and Punk and the like are pulling in the smarks, big show and the great khali pull in people in awe of giants, john cena pulls in the kids, HHH and Michaels and Undertaker pull in the old fans, etc.

And it seems to be working, judging by raw's ratings.
 

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