Rashad & Rampage both ducking fights

[jmt225]

Yep, I bashed Manny and Floyd for doing this, now let's flip the script to MMA.

Originally, UFC 119 was going to feature Rampage Jackson vs. Lyoto Machida and Rashad Evans vs. Antonio Rogerio Nogueira. However, Rampage turned down the Machida fight, citing A-Team promotional commitments and "wanting to fight exciting fights." Rampage may fight Forrest Griffin again. Rashad, on the other hand, turned down Rogerio for the #1 Contender's spot. Rashad claims he doesn't want to fight again until Shogun is healthy, and can fight for the title.

First to Rampage... I've expressed myself on him a month or so back ducking Machida. I think it's cowardly and just flat out fucking bullshit. But at the end of the day... whatever. Keep Rampage out of the title picture and just give him guys who he finds "exciting." Fine.

Now, Rashad Evans... honestly, I never expected this from Rashad Evans. I thought he was the type who would fight anywhere, anytime. Guess I was wrong. But, some could find it justifiable that Evans puts off fighting until Shogun is healthy. In Evans mind, he earned a title shot and shouldn't have to fight until he gets it.

I disagree with that, though. There's a reason why the UFC invented the Interim Title, and in my opinion, I feel Rashad Evans should do the right thing and fight for the Interim Title, so other Light Heavyweights don't have to wait a fucking year before they know they'll be able to get a title shot. Think about it... if Rashad doesn't fight Shogun until he's healthy, that means every other Light Heavyweight fight is worthless. No one's getting a title shot, and no one's going to get the Interim Title, since it's the person with the Interim Title who gets first crack at the returning champion (only one time this turned out not to be the case, which was of course when Lesnar fought Couture while Big Nog was Interim Champion, but of course those were extenuating circumstances).

So, basically.. the question is, if you're Dana White, what do you do here? Do you just accept Rashad and Rampage's demands, or do you put your foot down and tell them they're doing this and that? Also, if you were to put your foot down, what would you make Rashad and Rampage do?

 

[INDYjon22]

Man, what a shame, as a fan this sucks. Not just because both men are "ducking" fights but because we won't get to see them fight, possibly, for a while. Rashad is a little more legit but still it fucking sucks.

I don't see why Rampage has such a problem with fighting Machida. I honestly think he could do a good job of fighting him. His clinch is strong and if he can corner Machida I think he could put him away or at least get some shots in. Then again Machida is a tough match up for everybody because of how elusive he is and because he is a great counter puncher.

Rashad on the other hand, I don't really know who else he would fight seeing as the top LHW's are busy right now or coming off of loses. It is understandable that he doesn't want to fight until Shogun is healthy but it is also shitty because he could have an interim title fight in the in between time. I don't really know who he would fight but it would be nice to see Rashad fight in the mean time until Rua is healthy.

As for if I would put my foot down. I would say yes, at least in Rampages situation. If he wants to be the best then he has to beat the best and Machida is one of the best. And, if he was to ever get back to the title I bet he would have to fight Machida anyways. As for Rashad, I would be a little more lenient but I would also express how big an interim champion could be, because it would be nice to see a LHW champion in the mean time until Shogun is healthy and can defend it. I mean, say what you will about Chuck Liddell but he took a fight with Vernon White just to settle that feud instead of waiting for his title shot. Rashad can man up and take a fight as well.

Either way it would be nice to see either man fight someone of name value before the years end. Both can put on fun, exciting fights, especially Rampage and it is a shame that they are depriving the fans of fights that they want to see.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

I tell you exactly what I do.

I sign Machida vs Nog, or Machida vs Griffin, and make that match for the interim title. Let Evans and Jackson miss that pay day and see how quickly they are BEGGING for an interim title shot.

 

[Tha Wolfpac]

Hey Yo!

That's IT, Im done, im done with Quinton Rampage Jackson. He is overrated, for me this just adds fuel to the fire.

Rampage is ducking this fight because he knows he is going to be put on show, and be made look like a shit fighter seriously. Rampages main attributes is his power and his boxing. Machida on the other hand is very technica, smart and an awesome Counter- Puncher and also very elusive. So that pretty much cancels out almost all of Rampage's offense. I know how exactly how this fight is going to turn out, watch Rampage vs Shogun Rua in their pride match which lasted like almost 4 minutes, Rampage was on the defensive the whole time. You can argue it was inexperience or whatever but to me it was fear, and this is just the same thing. Rampage is doubting his own ability people. Just like Frank Mir but that is a different story.

As for Rashad Evans, i think he is just so focused and wanting to regain his LHW title that he isn't purposely ducking fights he just wants to train for Shogun Rua, so it's okay with me.

 

[ITurnGirlsGay]

I tell you exactly what I do.

I sign Machida vs Nog, or Machida vs Griffin, and make that match for the interim title. Let Evans and Jackson miss that pay day and see how quickly they are BEGGING for an interim title shot.

Machida will not fight Nog because they are both Black House fighters. Complete fucking bullshit and I've been opposed to this practice for a long time. Griffin vs. Machida makes sense from a fan's perspective, but not from a title perspective. Griffin's only win in two years is against Tito. You, simply, cannot have an interim title fight with Griffin involved.

Rashad doesn't want to fight Machida because Ryoto straight up tooled that mother fucker in their first fight. It won't end much differently the second time around, either. Rashad's strength is wrestling and he's not good enough to take down Machida. Machida's Sumo base has proven too difficult for even the best wrestlers at LHW. I don't think I need to answer the striking question regarding these two.

Rampage won't fight Machida because he doesn't have the skill-set to deal with Machida. Rampage is a power puncher with great take-down defense. Rampage's style of offense will be completely ineffective against Machida's lateral movement and offensive striking. Save for landing a power shot (which Rampage CAN do), I don't see him winning this fight in any way.

Simply put, at LHW, it's 1 and 1a. Machida and Rua have proven that they are leaps and bounds better than the rest of that division. Rua just needed the time, Machida has proven he can beat anyone in that divison handily except for Rua. That's why both of these fighters are ducking fights. Honestly, I see where Rashad is coming from. He, stylistically, stands a great chance of beating Rua, only problem is that Machida will beat him, then lose to Rua, who will lose to Evans...etc...

 

[ITurnGirlsGay]

Update, we have to remove Rampage from this list.

http://prommanow.com/index.php/2010/07/21/rampage-vs-machida-expected-in-november/

Multiple sources, including Rampage himself, have said this fight is all but official. Jackson himself posted on his Twitter account that he was issued a bout agreement for a fight and was about to sign it late Tuesday evening.

 

[jmt225]

Well, I'm happy Rampage took the fight. Props to him.

Now, let's see what kind of man Rashad Evans is. Undoubtedly, whoever wins between Rampage and Machida will deserve a shot at Evans for the Interim Title. If Rashad reclines to take that fight, then he is EVERYTHING he claimed Rampage was during all their little back-and-forth disputes. Pretty much every time they got into it, Rashad would claim Rampage ducked Machida, and then when Rampage went and shot the A-Team, all of the sudden it was Rampage ducking Rashad. It's going to be interesting to see what Rashad does now that the script is flipped. Will he puss out, or will he man up? My money is on him manning up and fighting the winner, but I won't be completely shocked if Rashad doesn't take the fight.

Anyways, Rampage vs. Machida should be interesting. Off the bat I have Machida knocking Rampage out in the 2nd or 3rd Round, but my mind might change as the fight draws near. We'll see....

 

[ITurnGirlsGay]

Well, I'm happy Rampage took the fight. Props to him.

Now, let's see what kind of man Rashad Evans is. Undoubtedly, whoever wins between Rampage and Machida will deserve a shot at Evans for the Interim Title. If Rashad reclines to take that fight, then he is EVERYTHING he claimed Rampage was during all their little back-and-forth disputes. Pretty much every time they got into it, Rashad would claim Rampage ducked Machida, and then when Rampage went and shot the A-Team, all of the sudden it was Rampage ducking Rashad. It's going to be interesting to see what Rashad does now that the script is flipped. Will he puss out, or will he man up? My money is on him manning up and fighting the winner, but I won't be completely shocked if Rashad doesn't take the fight.

Anyways, Rampage vs. Machida should be interesting. Off the bat I have Machida knocking Rampage out in the 2nd or 3rd Round, but my mind might change as the fight draws near. We'll see....

I'm more inclined to take Machida by decision than by knockout. Rampage has a hell of a chin. It took Wanderlei 19 consecutive knees to drop Rampage. I'm not thinking Machida is going to bother trying that. I see Machida utilizing an in and out gameplan with plenty of kicks mixed in to take away Jackson's power. It's too risky for Machida to box with Rampage.

 

[Dressler]

No to any Interim Title's, they are POINTLESS. They have no meaning, its basically a glorified way of saying "This man is the Number One Contender to the Real Title", I know it helps sell matches with Gold on the line but in the UFC, Interim Titles are pointless, so no to any "Interim Title Fight".

As for Rampage, I'm very happy to see he accepted the Fight with Machida, although I think Machida will woop his ass on account of he is just to fast for Rampage's fists to connect, but I'm happy to see it go down, two of the best Light Heavyweights is always fun to see and it should be marketed quite well. I see Machida winning this by Submission or Decision, I can't see him knocking out Rampage.

As for Evans, I cant blame the guy, he won a Number One Contenders match versus Rampage (In boring fashion but still a "W"), and deserves his Title Shot. I understand the frustration in some that say that he is Ducking fights because he doesn't want to lose, but hey, can you fucking blame him? The guy is the Number One Contender for the Title, why would he risk losing that status because The Champ is injured? Makes no sense, let him recoop, it gives BOTH guys a chance to watch some film of the other and for them to be a bit more prepared for what should/will be a great and entertaining fight.

 

[ITurnGirlsGay]

No to any Interim Title's, they are POINTLESS. They have no meaning, its basically a glorified way of saying "This man is the Number One Contender to the Real Title", I know it helps sell matches with Gold on the line but in the UFC, Interim Titles are pointless, so no to any "Interim Title Fight".

Actually, interim titles are NOT pointless. They are very much the opposite of pointless. Frank Mir won his HW title and was completely unable to defend that title after his motorcycle crash. They created an interim title match-up between Arlovski and Sylvia which Arlovski won. Arlovski went on to defend that title TWO more times before they made him the official champ because Mir was unable to rehab. It took nine months before he was promoted to Undisputed champ. Mir won the title June 19th, 2004 and an interim title wasn't created until February 5th, 2005. Roughly 7 months. Arlovksi wasn't made full champ for an additional 9 months. That's 16 months. You want them to go a year and half without a HW title fight? Talk about stagnating a division.


Rua won the LHW championship in May and won't be back until March of 2011. that means you want everyone to sit around and wait for almost a year. God forbid there be any setbacks with knee surgery, lord knows that's never happened before. If there are any setbacks he'll be out even longer. That means a stalled division for over a year in the deepest division in MMA.

Additionally, let's just say there is a minor set back. I don't think anyone here would want a less-than-one-hundred-percent Rua taking a title fight just because he doesn't want to be stripped of his title. By creating an interim title, you keep things moving along without forcing an athlete back to the sport before his body and mind are ready to compete at the highest level. It actually helps the injured champ. I don't know if you've ever had knee surgery before, but any athlete will tell you that it's one of the worst things, mentally, to come back from. You have to prepare yourself to get hit in the legs. Ask any QB who's had their ACL/MCL shredded because a lineman hit them in the legs as they stepped into a throw. Ask them how long it took them before they felt comfortable standing in that pocket and delivering a ball with DB/LB's closing in for the kill.

Interim titles are far from pointless. Rua just hit his stride. He was looking amazing and this is coming from a Machida nuthugger. I don't want Rua to rush back before he is ready, but I also don't want to stagnate a division in case something happens. I could go on, but I think you can clearly see why they aren't pointless and stupid.

 

[Via Armbar]

Well, I'm happy Rampage took the fight. Props to him.

Now, let's see what kind of man Rashad Evans is. Undoubtedly, whoever wins between Rampage and Machida will deserve a shot at Evans for the Interim Title. If Rashad reclines to take that fight, then he is EVERYTHING he claimed Rampage was during all their little back-and-forth disputes. Pretty much every time they got into it, Rashad would claim Rampage ducked Machida, and then when Rampage went and shot the A-Team, all of the sudden it was Rampage ducking Rashad. It's going to be interesting to see what Rashad does now that the script is flipped. Will he puss out, or will he man up? My money is on him manning up and fighting the winner, but I won't be completely shocked if Rashad doesn't take the fight.

Anyways, Rampage vs. Machida should be interesting. Off the bat I have Machida knocking Rampage out in the 2nd or 3rd Round, but my mind might change as the fight draws near. We'll see....

The thing is, Evans has already won his right to a title shot. Could you really blame him for wanting to wait and get more training in for Shogun? Of course I would like to see him fight before the Spring as would many people. I completely understand why he wouldn't take another fight in the mean time though. Maybe if he were offered a fight where even if he lost it he would still be given a title shot. That just makes little sense though. If Machida gets a title shot after beating Rampage (which I believe he will) then Evans would have to face him eventually anyway if he beats Shogun. He already beat Rampage and would likely again in rematch. So taking either of these men before Shogun doesn't make a lot of sense for him at all. I don't think that makes him a pussy, he's just doing what he thinks is right for his career.

Now Rampage, there would be no reason for him not to take a fight with Machida. It would possibly put him in direct contention after Evans/Shogun. Jackson knows that Machida is a terrible match up for him. Had he not taken this fight, it would have seemed like some definite ducking. l like Jackson, but he may not be the best at making career decisions. I have a feeling he is going to enter the tail end of his career soon and may only have a couple fights left in him. Here's hoping he earns another title shot because he is always a blast to watch.

 

[jmt225]

The thing is, Evans has already won his right to a title shot. Could you really blame him for wanting to wait and get more training in for Shogun? Of course I would like to see him fight before the Spring as would many people. I completely understand why he wouldn't take another fight in the mean time though. Maybe if he were offered a fight where even if he lost it he would still be given a title shot. That just makes little sense though. If Machida gets a title shot after beating Rampage (which I believe he will) then Evans would have to face him eventually anyway if he beats Shogun. He already beat Rampage and would likely again in rematch. So taking either of these men before Shogun doesn't make a lot of sense for him at all. I don't think that makes him a pussy, he's just doing what he thinks is right for his career.

But don't you think it's unfair for others to have to wait to get their shot at a title because Rashad is too scared to face anyone until Shogun is ready to defend his belt?

Rashad Evans should have confidence in himself to defeat anyone in the Light Heavyweight Division. There's no excuse for him to ever duck a fight, and if he does, no matter the circumstances, he ends up looking like a pussy hypocrite because he constantly ripped Rampage for ducking Machida and himself all throughout the build-up to their fight (which lasted over a year, mind you). Now that the script has flipped and Rashad is in a position he doesn't want to be in... he's acting just like everything he accused Rampage of acting like.

Besides, what exactly has Rashad done to earn a title shot anyway? In his last three fights... he got his ass kicked against Machida, BARELY beat Thiago Silva (who was suffering multiple injuries), and then beat Rampage, who was coming off a year long lay off.

Seriously, when you think about it... Rashad should need one more win to get a title shot anyway. His last two wins were not all that impressive. The only reason he was promised a shot against Shogun was because there was no one else to give it to; he didn't necessarily "earn" it. However, now he can earn it and that's exactly what he should do.

 

[Khalifa]

I agree with Via armbar on this. I believe that Evans is the number one contender and there is nothing wrong with him taking as much time as he needs to prepare for Shogun. If he were to fight someone else it would affect his training and his mindset for Shogun. Evans is already as cocky enough and for him to just flatten out another fighter would only make his head bigger and he would go into the fight over confident. It's good to be confident but Evans already has that.

JMT I know you love your MMA and you are really smart about it to but it shouldn't matter how you win the fight, a win is a win. Same with a loss. If you lose with one second left it's still going in the record books as a loss. Now Evans has beaten a former LHC in Rampage and someone who will knock your lights out if your not prepared. He has also beaten Thiago Silva, who is a complete sycopath and as the ability to knock anyone out. He may have gotten flogged to Machida but he also beat Forrest the fight before that. He won his number one contender shot, and now he is preparing for it. Nothing wrong with wanting to go into the biggest fight of your career 100% is there?

 

[Via Armbar]

But don't you think it's unfair for others to have to wait to get their shot at a title because Rashad is too scared to face anyone until Shogun is ready to defend his belt?

Well if not Rashad, and Machida/Page are tied up together then who is these fighters you speak of that are forced to wait? Franklin? Jones? Bader or Diet Nog? None have earned it.

Rashad Evans should have confidence in himself to defeat anyone in the Light Heavyweight Division. There's no excuse for him to ever duck a fight, and if he does, no matter the circumstances, he ends up looking like a pussy hypocrite because he constantly ripped Rampage for ducking Machida and himself all throughout the build-up to their fight (which lasted over a year, mind you). Now that the script has flipped and Rashad is in a position he doesn't want to be in... he's acting just like everything he accused Rampage of acting like.

The point is, he was awarded a title shot. He wants his title shot. If you are saying he is ducking fights because he wants to wait for his title fight then shouldn't Koscheck be fighting between now and Decemeber? He beat Daley in what, April or something? I can almost guarantee that any other fighter in Evans position would be sitting and waiting as well. I'm still not clear as to who Rashad is ducking. Was it Lil Nog? Because that was a rumored fight that was squashed pretty quickly because Nog signed the fight with Bader like two days after the Evans/Nog fight was talked about. The Machida Rampage fight was talked about right after his loss to Evans, so a rematch with Machida was never really discussed.

Besides, what exactly has Rashad done to earn a title shot anyway? In his last three fights... he got his ass kicked against Machida, BARELY beat Thiago Silva (who was suffering multiple injuries), and then beat Rampage, who was coming off a year long lay off.

He beat a top contender in Silva and another contender/former champion in Rampage. He beat two top opponents, there have been title shots awarded to fighters for much less. Now I was really hoping that Silva would put him out as well as Rampage but he won. That's it, he won. Like it or not I suppose. Griffin was given a shot after beating Shogun. There are plenty of examples. There will always be the "well he was injured'' or ''he cut too much weight'' kind of excuses. It's just part of the game. On the record, they're wins.

Seriously, when you think about it... Rashad should need one more win to get a title shot anyway. His last two wins were not all that impressive. The only reason he was promised a shot against Shogun was because there was no one else to give it to; he didn't necessarily "earn" it. However, now he can earn it and that's exactly what he should do.

What I do always like is when a fighter who wants a title shot are forced to beat the man who last held the title. That would mean that Evans would have to beat Machida. That always makes the most sense as far as who gets a number one contenders spot goes. It just isn't always good for overall match making. There are other fighters who are really close to contention that also want to make it to the top spot. You give Evans Machida adn who does Rampage get? Nog? Bader? Then Jackson is beating unproven guys and we are right back at somebody ''not earning'' a title shot. The title scene is confusing right now. Shogun will be ready to go by Spring. If not Rashad, the who? It would be cool if Rashad would put his title shot on the line, but I would understand if he didn't.

 

[jmt225]

Well if not Rashad, and Machida/Page are tied up together then who is these fighters you speak of that are forced to wait? Franklin? Jones? Bader or Diet Nog? None have earned it.

Neither has Rashad, first of all, but yes... those names.

Think of it like this, if Machida beats Rampage at UFC 123, instead of getting a shot at Evans next, he'll have to wait for Evans to fight Shogun, which will most likely happen in Narch or April. Then you have to give three months past that to the winner... dude, Machida would have to wait all the way until next August to receive a shot. And there's no telling what those names above do between now and then.

The fact is, Rashad is being a selfish prick in this instance. Were he one of the fighters on the bubble so to speak, there's no way he wouldn't bitch up a storm about this.

The point is, he was awarded a title shot. He wants his title shot. If you are saying he is ducking fights because he wants to wait for his title fight then shouldn't Koscheck be fighting between now and Decemeber? He beat Daley in what, April or something? I can almost guarantee that any other fighter in Evans position would be sitting and waiting as well.

That's completely different. They're hosting the Ultimate Fighter show. That's all the UFC's doing. Not one fighter is postponing it by refusing to fight. Had Koscheck been told he had to beat Shields before fighting GSP if GSP got injured, I GUARANTEE Kos would have taken the fight, even after being promised a title shot if he beat Daley.

I'm still not clear as to who Rashad is ducking. Was it Lil Nog? Because that was a rumored fight that was squashed pretty quickly because Nog signed the fight with Bader like two days after the Evans/Nog fight was talked about. The Machida Rampage fight was talked about right after his loss to Evans, so a rematch with Machida was never really discussed.

He's basically ducking a rematch with either Machida or Rampage. Or maybe even Rich Franklin if he's healthy. But even if there is no name, he's ducking a fight because I know the UFC wants him to have one more fight before the Shogun fight, and if Rashad doesn't take it, then he's a hypocrite in my mind.

He beat a top contender in Silva and another contender/former champion in Rampage. He beat two top opponents, there have been title shots awarded to fighters for much less. Now I was really hoping that Silva would put him out as well as Rampage but he won. That's it, he won. Like it or not I suppose. Griffin was given a shot after beating Shogun. There are plenty of examples. There will always be the "well he was injured'' or ''he cut too much weight'' kind of excuses. It's just part of the game. On the record, they're wins.

They still weren't impressive wins though, man.

My point is that while he technically "earned" his title shot, it wasn't in impressive fashion and now that it has to be postponed, he should be in no position to be telling the UFC what he should be able to do with himself. Had he dominated those two, then maybe I'd feel different, but he didn't. He almost got KTFO against Silva, and he disappointed a lot of fans with his style against Rampage (where he almost got KTFO again).

What I do always like is when a fighter who wants a title shot are forced to beat the man who last held the title. That would mean that Evans would have to beat Machida. That always makes the most sense as far as who gets a number one contenders spot goes. It just isn't always good for overall match making. There are other fighters who are really close to contention that also want to make it to the top spot. You give Evans Machida adn who does Rampage get? Nog? Bader? Then Jackson is beating unproven guys and we are right back at somebody ''not earning'' a title shot. The title scene is confusing right now. Shogun will be ready to go by Spring. If not Rashad, the who? It would be cool if Rashad would put his title shot on the line, but I would understand if he didn't.

It's an easy solution... you give Rashad the winner of Rampage/Machida if it goes without the winner getting harmed, or you give him Rich Franklin. That's it. All problems solved. We should not have to wait 8/9 more months before we get a relevant, title contention fight in a division.