Quarter Finals: Chris Benoit vs. Ric Flair

Discussion in 'General WrestleZone Tournament' started by klunderbunker, May 30, 2010.

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Who Wins This Matchup?

  1. Chris Benoit

  2. Ric Flair

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. klunderbunker

    klunderbunker Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House

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    This is a Quarter Final match in the Wrestlezone Tournament.

    This match has standard rules and a 45 minute time limit. All matches from this point forward take place in a single night which is one week after the previous round.

    Location: University of Phoenix Stadium, Phoenix, Arizona

    [​IMG]

    Chris Benoit

    [​IMG]

    Vs.

    Ric Flair

    [​IMG]


    Voting is open for 5 days.
     
    #1
  2. Ferbian

    Ferbian Has Returned.

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    While this is both two very talented wrestlers, and this match could very well be a challenge for both wrestlers, I think Ric Flair has the upper hand in this match.

    It's been said before, Ric Flair was a tough opponent in his prime, and so was Chris Benoit, but Ric has simply beaten the best of the best through a longer period of time, he's held the world championship(s) when they actually ment something, sure Benoit's second world championship was held for a decent amount of time, but it holds nothing on Ric Flair.

    As I said, Ric has beaten the best of the best, I sincerely don't see Chris Benoit getting Ric Flair into a position for the Crippler Crossface, or well he may very well, but I see Ric Flair getting Benoit into the position for a Figure Four Leg Lock first, ultimately causing Benoit to tap out.

    It will be a great match between the two, and both could really turn out the winner, but I'm gonna go with Ric Flair on this one.
     
    #2
  3. Nate DaMac

    Nate DaMac Fuck erbody but me

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    I'm torn with this one, though I'm leaning more toward Flair. I like Beniot better, always have, but even putting both men in their prime, I don't know if Beniot would pull it off. I'm sure these 2 have met before even though I can't recollect it happening just based on memory, but regardless it wouldn't have been in either man's prime so I don't think it would be applicable. I think I shall sit and hear both sides of the argument before I vote. As it stands, I'm taking Flair but I'd like to give the Beniot supporters a chance to sway me.
     
    #3
  4. It's...Baylariat!

    It's...Baylariat! Team Finnley Baylor

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    It's Flair all the way here. All Flair has done in his career is find ways to beat even the toughest opponents. And Benoit would be damn tough, but Flair's also scouted Benoit as they were members of the Four Horsemen. Any move that Benoit wants to use, Flair would find ways to avoid it.

    Also, I don't remember a time where Flair ever submitted. Even to a Crippler Crossface. And this time limit doesn't bode well for Benoit, as well. 45 minutes would be a light match for Flair in his prime. And with all of that being said, I believe that Benoit would take the high risk move, hurt himself, and end up being pinned or passing out to the Figure Four leglock.

    Flair wins it here.
     
    #4
  5. Tastycles

    Tastycles Turn Bayley heel

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    I thin this match sums up my general apathy towards who's left in the tournament more than any other. I don't like either of these wrestlers at all, but I think this has to be Ric Flair's. Put simply he was always in and around the main event from about 1980 to 2000, whereas Benoit was never a consistent main eventer at any point anywhere.

    It boils down to that really, and I just can't see that Benoit would ever go over Flair nor can I see any way by which he would when Flair was in his prime.
     
    #5
  6. Nate DaMac

    Nate DaMac Fuck erbody but me

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    I'm inclined to agree with you here for the most part, but I do specifically remember him tapping out to Bret's Sharpshooter at least twice.

    The only argument I can possibly muster up against this is the fact that Flair tend's to lose when he needs to from time to time. The reason that Flair is great is because of his heel persona, you absolutely want to see him get beaten. The buildup to a match was always spectacular and you're just hoping that Flair get's his ass kicked. It usually didn't happen, but it did sometimes.

    Unfortunately, This is in tournament form, so the matches are decided on short notice. Flair doesn't go out to someone like Beniot when the likes of Austin, Cena, Sting, and Taker are still in the mix. So bye bye Beniot.
     
    #6
  7. gd

    gd Plump, Juicy User

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    I'd think Benoit being 3-0 all time against Flair would be a pretty good reason to vote for him, especially with one of those wins coming by submission. Of course, this'll be countered with the "Flair wasn't in his prime" argument, but I don't care. Especially since Benoit was the much better in ring competitor of the two. Seems like an easy choice to me.
     
    #7
  8. Jack-Hammer

    Jack-Hammer YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
    Staff Member Moderator

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    When you look at the overall history between Flair and Benoit, it's easy to just look at Flair's accomplishments and believe he'd just blow past Benoit here with little to no problem. After all, Flair has over 20 World Championship reigns to his credit and that's impressive no matter how you go and look at it.

    Benoit was just a tough scrapper that could brawl, do the high flying thing, go skill for skill on the mat, etc. In all fairness, the guy could pretty much do it all. While he didn't accomplish as much as Ric Flair did, overall, and will probably never be thought of as being in Flair's league by general wrestling consensus, I think it's a huge mistake to write Benoit off at any time.

    I know that Ric Flair has just about beaten them all in one way or another, I accept that and agree with it. However, Ric Flair wasn't invincible and many of his biggest victories, come hell or high water, were attained due to the interference of others. You do sometimes have to wonder how things may have faired overall for Flair had it not been for the Horsemen sometimes. I do think that Flair could beat Benoit, but I also think that Benoit could beat Flair. After all, if Kerry Von Erich and Ron Garvin could win over Ric Flair, I don't see any reason why a superior wrestler like Benoit couldn't beat him either.

    I think I'm going to be a bit quirky here and give my vote to Benoit. Why? Well, as I said, I do honestly think that Benoit could have beaten him and, also, I have a feeling that Flair is going to ge an overwhelming majority of the vote anyhow. And, while I like both wrestlers, Benoit is a little more sentimental with me at this time.
     
    #8
  9. nate dogg

    nate dogg Dark Match Jobber

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    i have to go with the nature boy in his prime he wrestled several 45-60 minutes matches chris benoit may be one of the best pound for pound wrestler his conditioning will be his downfall
     
    #9
  10. Little Jerry Lawler

    Little Jerry Lawler Sigmund Freud On Ritalin And Roids

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    :lmao::lmao::lmao:

    How many Chris Benoit matches have you watched. Benoit has arguably the best conditioning of any wrestler in history. He would have NO problem going 45 minutes with Ric Flair.
     
    #10
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  11. Megadeth

    Megadeth AKA Asm92784

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    I did vote for Ric Flair, but to be fair:

    [YOUTUBE]<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/lEVDGxPYMOc&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/lEVDGxPYMOc&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBE]

    If you dont feel like watching the video, the match ends with Benoit reversing Ric Flair's Figure four attempt into a Crossface, which Ric Flair promptly tapped out to. I did still vote Flair though because,A. Ric Flair was well past him prime at this point and B. It was in a tag match, not a one on one. I dont think Flair in his prime would have tapped out as quickly and could have fought to get to the ropes to break it, assuming he was as careless to let Benoit reverse him into the crossface in the first place. So despite my video, while I do think this would be a very close match remember that was Ric Flair of 2004 not the Ric Flair of the 80's, and Flair in his prime would take it.
     
    #11
  12. Ferbian

    Ferbian Has Returned.

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    Very well, I stand corrected, but as you said yourself, it's way out of Ric Flair's prime, Benoit wouldn't be able to get a victory over Ric Flair in his prime, who has held numerous championships and is among the longest reigning champion's with both the WCW and NWA world championship, sure he lost them, but the fact that he held them for so long is still quite an accomplishment.

    Ric Flair's prime, wouldn't be submitting to the Crippler Crossface, but would be WOO stylin' and profilin' Benoit's ass out of this tournament.
     
    #12
  13. Megadeth

    Megadeth AKA Asm92784

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    I completely agree. I really just went ahead posted the video more so to debunk why despite that Flair would still win this match, before someone voting Benoit could bring it up.
     
    #13
  14. It's...Baylariat!

    It's...Baylariat! Team Finnley Baylor

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    So you know of matches Benoit's been in that he's gone over 45 minutes in? Or even over 30 minutes? See, Flair's matches were at LEAST 45 minutes during his prime. Benoit's never had a match over 20 minutes on big stages. And yes, he's lost most of those matches, too.

    Conditioning goes to Flair hands down. I can make countless arguments as to why. Whereas you just look at Benoit and think, 'he looks buff, he could go 50 minutes." There's no visual evidence that I could find that has a Benoit match lasting longer than 20-25 minutes.
     
    #14
  15. gd

    gd Plump, Juicy User

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    Here's one that's about half an hour. He also had a match against Hart on Nitro that was a little longer. He definetly hasn't had a ton of long matches, but I don't think stamina should be a clear advantage for Flair. Who even says this match has to last 30 minutes or longer? It could be 30 seconds for all we know.

    Also, as I said before, Benoit is 3-0 against Flair all time. Just saying.
     
    #15
  16. Coco

    Coco Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    You're just being silly. For one, I've seen Flair matches in the 80s where he took the fall in 20ish minutes. Second of all, Benoit's won a 60 minute World Championship match. The notion that Benoit's at a disadvantage against Flair because he finished his opponents up in short order on a regular basis while Flair dragged matches out because he couldn't get the job done makes no sense. There's evidence that Benoit can go long and the announcers (in kayfabe) would frequently cite his conditioning.

    I agree that there's no logical reason to vote Benoit, but the least you could do is pull your head out of your ass. K'thnx, bye.
     
    #16
  17. Blade

    Blade "Original Blade"

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    Really, Lariat?

    Come on, you should know that Benoit fought Triple H in a 60 minute iron man match in 2004 for the world heavyweight title. That seems like pretty good evidence to me that he can work 60 minutes. Just because he's been given less opportunities than Flair to work that long, doesn't mean he hasn't.
     
    #17
  18. CobraVenom

    CobraVenom I want my gimmick back Raven

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    I wish I could be a fanboy here and have Benoit go over Flair. However, the Ric Flair that I knew would find a way to win, no matter what. Flair is probably the most resourceful wrestler I have ever seen, and no shortcut is taboo to Flair. I don't see Benoit tapping, but I do see Flair getting the 1-2-3 using the tights. Flair for the win.
     
    #18
  19. LigerBomb

    LigerBomb Getting Noticed By Management

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    You didn't debunk anything, in fact, after showing your man actually losing to the other guy for real the best you could do was say your opinion was that you don't think that it could or would happen because of this vaunted 'prime' you speak of. You showed hard evidence against your claims and "countered" it with imagined conjecture...

    Moving on to those speaking out their ass with regards to conditioning:
    Here's a bit on the energy system continuum in the body real quick: The continuum includes ATP-Creatine Phosphate, Anaerobic Glycolysis, Aerobic Glycolysis, and the Krebs Cycle. The former two are anaerobic and the latter two aerobic. As duration increases, there's increased contribution of aerobic energy systems. As intensity increases, the anaerobic energy systems are utilized more. So on one end of the spectrum you have anaerobic work like a hard sprint that can be maintained for mere seconds on the other end you have aerobic activities like walking which can be done for hours.
    Flair's style of working is more towards the walking end of the above spectrum. His style is much less physically intense when compared to Benoit's with regards to energy pathway utilization. Likewise, in a kind of chicken and the egg scenario, the era Flair 'Prime' worked in was less intensive. Endurance means little when the work being done isn't very demanding. Hell we can all "endure" 8hrs of the aerobic activity known as sleeping but its not very difficult.
    Conversely, Benoit worked a much harder more cardiovascularly demanding style his entire career and was conditioned to do so. His style was a melding of power systems. He required higher cardio output to sustain the intensity and he trained accordingly to maintain and enhance that ability.
    Similarly, as was mentioned above, Benoit was booked to compete in shorter matches in a TV era that didn't have need of 60min matches all that often. This is not a negative against Benoit nor is it proof that he couldn't work those longer matches when they were asked of him as evidenced by his participation in Iron-Man matches and even his Royal Rumble win -with a time of 1:01:30.
    Benoit has the higher work capacity and output on a per minute basis i.e., in this 45 min match Benoit is capable of working harder and maintaining a high intensity per minute, and when/if necessary could simply down-shift so to speak to match Flair's lower intensity work rate to recovery and maintain. So even if it were true that Benoit could only keep up his intensity for say 20 minutes --which it isn't -- it would be rather easy for him to work hard for 20min then actively recover at a lower Flair-esque pace for perhaps 15min then kick it back up into high gear to close out the remaining 10 minutes in the clutch. Flair on the other hand would be hard pressed to up-shift to match Benoit's intensity for any meaningful duration, if at all. Put all together and you should realized that Benoit has the overall conditioning advantage.
    Lastly, as to this:
    "There's no visual evidence that I could find that has a Benoit match lasting longer than 20-25 minutes"
    Lack of "evidence" does not prove the opposite's existence or validity. What you claim is a fallacy in which the premise is supposedly true only because it has not been proven false, or supposedly false only because it has not been proven true. Were I to murder someone and you couldn't find the visual evidence to prove it so, that doesn't mean I didn't or couldn't have committed the crime. Lack of evidence only "proves" it is what it is: a lack of evidence.
     
    #19
  20. klunderbunker

    klunderbunker Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House

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    Now I don't know nearly as much about medical anything as Liger does, but I know from watching a lot of wrestling in my time that Flair's cardio is legendary. That man could go out there and work with Steamboat who you know would be all over the place for 30 minutes at least and Flair would look just fine. Then Flair would do it 4 other times that week. Benoit is hardly a fat slob, but based on what I've seen, Flair is going to beat anyone not named John Cena or Bret Hart when it comes to being active at the end of a long match.

    That being said, I went with Flair. If anyone is going to be able to get out of a Crossface, it's Flair. Benoit grew up as a Horseman, meaning Flair had a hand in his maturing as a wrestler. Flair can throw stuff out there that will make Benoit make a mistake no matter how long it takes. Benoit has been known to lose his focus a bit and go a bit nuts, which is where Flair will catch him. It may not be in a submission, but Benoit can be rolled up with Flair's feet on the ropes just like thousands of others have fallen prey to.
     
    #20
  21. pun2003hh

    pun2003hh BUILDING KICK!!! EXPLOSIONS!!!

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    Hey, I wanted to bring up something here. I agree with you Lariat, and I voted Flair to go over in this match, but there is something flawed about this argument. Yes, Flair has the stamina to outlast Benoit, but remember this match has a 45 minute timelimit with no overtime and double elimination should it be a draw. In that sense, the fact that it usually takes Flair at least 45 minutes to finish off an opponent is actually a major disadvantage in this match, not for danger of actually losing to Benoit, but danger of going the distance and ending up eliminating himself as well as Benoit.

    That said, this is not a vote for Benoit. As good as Benoit was, Flair was better. But for some reason, while looking at the kayfabe aspects of this match, I only see this going two ways. 1) Flair gets a surprise roll up with a fist full of tights at the 35 minute mark or 2) this goes the distance and both men are eliminated.

    Since I can't vote for a double elimination, I'll vote Flair.
     
    #21
  22. D-Man

    D-Man Gone but never forgotten.

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    I couldn't, in my right mind, vote for a travesty like Chris Benoit to go over one of the greatest to lace up the boots. But, it's too easy to NOT vote for Benoit based on the fact that he's a cold-blooded killer and an abomination of a human being.

    Flair could and WOULD beat Benoit.

    I don't care about all of your arguments about how well-conditioned, tough, and skilled that Benoit can be technically in a ring. Ric Flair has been all over the world and has beat them ALL. Big, small, tough, weak, fat, skinny, resilient, non-resilient, world champion, midcarder, luchador, lightweight... Ric Flair has beaten ALL OF THEM. Why should Benoit be any different? Because he grunts when he throws punches? Because he has brutal chops? Because he has a great snap-suplex? Ric Flair has taken the offense of every man that people say he wouldn't beat and he's turned in around on them and come out with a victory. And THAT is why he is the greatest of all time.

    Sorry Benoit... you're a murderer, a despicable human being, and a great wrestler, but you're not the greatest. Vote for the greatest. Vote for Flair.
     
    #22
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  23. LigerBomb

    LigerBomb Getting Noticed By Management

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    Honestly still don't know who I'm even voting for (if anyone) but after reading this thread I have some quick thoughts...
     
    #23
  24. Takerfan9393

    Takerfan9393 Dark Match Jobber

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    is chris benoit mad? then definate edge goes to beniot's deadly crossface
     
    #24
  25. stillboy21

    stillboy21 Pre-Show Stalwart

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    I usually only put my opinion on my vote when its close to a tie but this a little different. I'm probably going to hear it hard for this but I voted for Benoit, for two reasons.
    Chris just had this intensity that Ric never had that I can recall. I'm not the biggest Flair expert but it just seems to me that he never gave off that same intensity. I think a mad Benoit would probably break Flair.
    Secondly, and I know this one can probably be easily debated too, I see a lot of people saying Ric could go the whole 45 minutes easily in his prime, but then if this match was going to go that long both he and Benoit would lose. Benoit wouldn't need that length, I recall him going on a 7 second match winning streak for a few weeks. I thought I should bring that up since it doesn't look like anybody else has.
    My point is basically that the longer the match, the better it would suit Flair but I don't think Benoit need a lot of time to take Flair out.
     
    #25

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