Professional Poker Player Being Sued For Winning

[Jack-Hammer]

I came across this story on CNN.com a few minutes ago and I thought it was interesting. Professional poker player Phil Ivey is being sued by the Borgada Hotel Casino & Spa in Atlantic City, New Jersey. The casino is stating that Ivey noticed a defect in the cards being used in a game of Baccarat back in 2012 and used his knowledge of the defect to win $9.6 million from the casino.

The suit alleges that the some of the cards made by Gemaco turned out to not have a perfectly symmetrical design on the back of the card. Ivey, the suit claims, was able to figure out what the first card to be dealt was, thereby giving him a significant advantage over the “house,” or casino. The casino was using cards made by a company called Gemaco and that they were being dealt via an automatic shuffler. Ivey and his partner, Cheng Yin Sun, are alleged to have practiced “edge sorting” to, in effect, “mark” the cards by forcing the dealer to handle the cards in a way such that “the leading edges of the strategically important cards could be distinguished from the leading edges of the other cards in the deck.” This, the casino says, is why Ivey wanted to keep the same deck and the automatic shuffler, which would leave the orientation of the cards unchanged.

However, this isn't the first time that Ivey has been accused of "edge sorting." Mayfair club Crockfords, a London-based casino, withheld £7.8 million from him after it believed he used the tactic to work the system and gain an unfair advantage over the house in baccarat. In this case, Ivey was also accompanied by a Chinese associate. The associate began the process of "edge sorting" by identifying which cards were good and bad. Over time, Ivey was able to determine one card from another simply by looking at the edges. According to the lawsuit he filed against Crockfords, Ivey admits to being an "advantage player"—someone who finds legal means to improve the odds of winning. He also argued that the casino should've been well aware of the process of "edge sorting" and figured out a way to stop it.

Personally, I thought this was a little funny. I don't follow poker the way that some have begun to over the course of the last decade or so, but I honestly can't say that I disagree with Ivey's perspective. These are professional gambling establishments, they exist to fleece people of their money in games of chance that the casino owners & management themselves know they have very little chance of losing. I can't say that the games are rigged but, in all honesty, there's a very strong probability that some of them are. After all, even if we suspected we were being cheated, we have no way to prove it. All the various rules and regulations set up by state gaming commissions essentially render casinos bulletproof. Unless you're able to somehow detect cheating going on right before your eyes, demonstrate how the cheating is being done and have enough eyewitnesses to back up your claim, you don't have a leg to stand on.

 

[Mustang Sally]

I don't follow poker the way that some have begun to over the course of the last decade or so, but I honestly can't say that I disagree with Ivey's perspective.

Me, either. I don't follow poker at all, but doesn't logic dictate that if Ivey didn't cause the defect in the cards, it can't be illegal to use said defect to his own advantage? He didn't provide the dealer with the tainted deck, right? So, if he notices something in the cards that the dealer failed to notice, why can't Ivey use the knowledge?

I admit I'm lost when it comes to statements like:

"Ivey and his partner, Cheng Yin Sun, are alleged to have practiced “edge sorting” to, in effect, “mark” the cards by forcing the dealer to handle the cards in a way such that “the leading edges of the strategically important cards could be distinguished from the leading edges of the other cards in the deck."

Forcing the dealer to handle cards in a certain way? How does he do that?

Remember the scene in "Rain Man" in which Tom Cruise was thrown out of a Las Vegas casino because the house believed his brother was counting cards (which he was)? Apparently, the practice wasn't technically illegal, yet the casino could still throw him out for doing it, right? Plus, if Tom Cruise refused to leave, the implication was the casino could do other things to him and his brother, as well.

Makes me glad I don't gamble at casinos. Maybe Ivey should take notice. Sometimes, just being in the right isn't enough.

 

[#tamale]

Forcing the dealer to handle cards in a certain way? How does he do that?

Deadspin can explain this better than I can:

What is edge sorting?

Simply put, edge sorting is exploiting defects in the ways playing cards are designed and cut. Look at the cards below:

The cards are supposed to cut off the pattern so that each edge of the card is identical to its opposite. However, these cards, manufactured by Gemaco, featured a defect that meant if you turned some cards around, and left the others the way they were originally, never shuffling them so that the edges were all mixed up, you could identify flipped cards from non-flipped. This is possible because in casinos, you're generally dealing with pre-shuffled decks, and if a shuffling machine is used, the vertical orientation of the cards will never change. And so, Ivey and his partner asked that the "good" cards for baccarat be flipped.

From Grantland, they explain how they used this tactic in a previous situation:

The previous night he and his unnamed companion, a Chinese woman from Las Vegas, started with a million-pound stake and played punto banco in a private room until they lost a half million pounds. They asked to raise the stakes, from 50,000 pounds per hand to 150,000. The club agreed. Soon Ivey and company were up almost two million. They agreed to come back and play again the next night only if the club agreed to keep the exact same cards for them to use. "Superstition," the mysterious woman explained. Crockfords agreed.

The next night when Ivey and his friend returned to play, the woman insisted that the dealers turn certain cards 180 degrees before putting them into the shoe to deal. Again, Ivey is superstitious, she explained. He also happened to be a very good tipper. The club again agreed to the unusual request. A few hours later, Ivey and his partner had won more than seven million pounds.

As you can see, this is not a practice that can be used by normal civilians. There needs to be a certain level of fame and established trust among the casino and the player, which are usually high rollers.

Now, it's like card counting. Not illegal, but looked down on. The interesting part here is that the pit managers and dealers are required to check all decks that are played with specifically for these types of errors. They know about these defects. It's freaking Las Vegas. There is a movie that touches on this subject about how gamblers try to cheat the system. This is the one of the first times this situation of edge sorting has happened.

Are the casinos using these decks that have these "defects" to give the full edge to the dealers?

 

[Loveless]

It's the casino's fault and they haven't got a leg to stand on. The guy isn't cheating, he didn't damage the cards himself, he used an unconventional talent to win the game.
The same thing goes for card counting. I still don't get how casinos can legally withhold winnings for something that is in no way cheating. It's ludicrous.

 

[GeneralKarim]

I've been following poker for some time now. But you don't have to, to realize that it's not his fault. Phil Ivey is one of the best poker players on the planet. He has a mind like no other. Beside being a pro poker player, he is also a professional gambler.

He plays with 100k$ likes its nothing on games that he could lose a lot. But that's cause he likes it. This I saw in a mini-documentary done on him.

His gambler side will always make him wanna take advantage of situations like this. I mean hell, I would do it, and I assume most people would, why wouldn't he?

They are supposed to be checking for this kind of stuff.

Who cares if he doesnt get his 10mil anyway. He has enough millios in his bank account. And playing almost regular cash games with business men and exploiting the shit out of them will always make him good money, as it will all other pro poker players.