Preliminary Round Triple-Threat Debate: Mitch vs IHW vs Johnny Gunnz

Discussion in 'Debater's League 2012' started by D-Man, Mar 16, 2012.

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  1. D-Man

    D-Man Gone but never forgotten.

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    And the first debate topic of the tournament is.... <drum roll>
    How should the outcome of Wrestlemania 28's main event match end up?
    1. John Cena wins
    2. The Rock wins
    3. Other (i.e. DQ, no contest, outside interference, etc.)
    This is a preliminary triple-threat debate for the final bracket spot in the 2012 Debater's League Tournament.

    - IHW drew the first pick so he will be able to choose his position first but he has 24 hours to make his choice, otherwise it's deferred to Gunnz.

    - Gunnz drew second pick and can choose his position second.

    - Mitch receives the final drawing and must take the remaining position but he can choose the order in which all three debaters will submit their opening posts.

    Debate replies will NOT begin until all three debaters submit opening posts. Once all three posts are created, it's a free-for-all where the order of posting no longer matters. The maximum amount of posts for each debater in this round is three (one opening post and two replies.)

    This thread is for DEBATERS ONLY and will end on Wednesday at 2pm EST where judging will immediately commence. Judging must be finished no later than Saturday at 5pm EST.

    Anyone that posts in this thread besides the debaters, league admins, and judges will be infracted!

    Good luck.
     
    #1
  2. IHW

    IHW WZCW's Brent Blaze

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    I will choose option 1.John Cena Wins.
     
    #2
  3. The Big Gunnzbowski

    The Big Gunnzbowski Damas y Caballeros...

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    Well then... I choose option 2. The Rock Wins
     
    #3
  4. Mitch Henessey

    Mitch Henessey Deploy the cow-catcher......
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    Gotta go with option three, and I choose a no contest

    And here's the order in which all three debaters will submit their opening post:

    1st- IHW

    2nd- Mitch

    3rd- "The Living Legend" Johnny Gunnz
     
    #4
  5. D-Man

    D-Man Gone but never forgotten.

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    Ok, IWH... let the opening statements begin!!
     
    #5
  6. IHW

    IHW WZCW's Brent Blaze

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    The debate league this year will be intense. I am vying for my spot in the league. The first debate I am taking place in asks the question how should the WrestleMania 28 main event between John Cena and The Rock end. I say John Cena should win because it would provide the bigger surprise, The Rock does not benefit as much, and Cena has the most to gain.

    The first reason why John Cena should win the WrestleMania 28 match with The Rock is because it would deliver the bigger surprise. There are a whole lot of Rock fans, way more then Cena fans at least, and these fans will expect Rocky to walk out victorious. But what happens when Cena wins? We wrestling fans automatically say; did John Cena just defeat Dwayne &#8220;The Rock&#8221; Johnson? It would cause controversy within WWE and with the fans, and as we all know, controversy create cash.

    Secondly, The Rock hardly benefits if he wins the match. Dwayne Johnson has multiple movies rolls already laid out for 2012 and even some announced for 2013. Does this leave time for him to be in the WWE, let alone a top star? The answer is simply no. Furthermore, Rock has numerous big time wins in his luxurious wrestling career; why would he need to beat Cena and then disappear for some time? Cena will be in the WWE for a long time to come, and this leads me into my next point.

    John Cena has the most to gain from the match. Let me say this again, Cena will be in the WWE for a long time to come. He needs this win. It will make him look better, and give him something to brag about on WWE TV. Cena is the top star right now, but he is slowly beginning to fade away from that position. With this huge win, Cena will hold this spot as top guy in the wrestling business today. Also, if Cena can get the win, he can begin to win back the various fans he has lost over the past few years; and that is what he needs.

    In conclusion, The Rock needs to put over John Cena, just as Hulk Hogan put over The Rock many years ago. The outcome of WrestleMania 28 should end with Cena getting the win because it would bring a nice surprise, The Rock hardly benefits, and because Cena has the most to gain.
     
    #6
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  7. Mitch Henessey

    Mitch Henessey Deploy the cow-catcher......
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    Rock VS Cena should end in a non contest, and here are the reasons why I feel this way.

    First Of All, This Could Actually happen

    Think about it. This match has been building for year. The Rock and John Cena have taken their fair share of personal shots at each other, they have a great amount of disdain for each other, and they can't wait to tear each other apart. Cena and Rock will throw everything they have at each other, it will be a close match, and the possibility of a no contest could come into play. This match should feature its fair share of close pinfall covers, and who's to say both men won't get frustrated at some point? The referee could lose control of a heated, physical exchange between both men, and he'll be forced into a position that requires a no contest ruling. Rock and Cena will be filled with anger, when Wrestlemania 28 rolls around, they can't stand each other, and a no contest finish isn't a far fetched possibility.

    A No Contest Finish Wouldn't Ruin The Match

    Rock and Cena will give everyone a great show, they will have a great match at Wrestlemania 28, and they will give the fans their money's worth. At the end of the day, pro wrestling is about providing entertainment. This isn't a boxing match or an MMA fight, and wins and losses won't help either man climb the ladder in some sort of ranking system.

    A no contest finish opens up the possibility for a rematch

    People will pay to see a rematch between these two. You can guarantee it. Cena VS Rock will still have that blockbuster feeling the second time around. The Rock will still be a big name, and John Cena is the top man in the entire company. Rock VS Cena is one of those special attraction match ups, that will draw a ton of interest from fans, and a good amount of people would love to see these two go at it again.

    Different Match Stipulation

    A no contest finish could open up the possibility for a new match stipulation. For example, Cena and Rock could face off for a second time in a no holds barred match. This type of stipulation would give both men plenty of freedom to tear each other apart, they won't have to worry about the rules, and an "anything goes" stipulation will give the fans something different. Rock and Cena won't be restrained by the rules of your standard wrestling match, and the fans will see something new.

    A no contest finish wouldn't hurt either man

    If Cena forces Rock to tap out to the STF or if he pins him clean, then there really is no reason for these two go at it again. If Rock beats Cena, then it could destroy him. This match means EVERYTHING to Cena. He's said so himself in the promos leading up to the match, and a loss at Mania 28 could be devastating for Cena. And of course, if Cena loses, he has no real reason for a rematch with The Rock.

    A no contest finish would protect both men. They let their emotions get the best of them, things got out control, but neither man will look stronger than the other after the match ends. Nobody loses anything, and a rematch could solve everyone's problems. Rock and Cena will have unfinished business, and People will want to see, who the better man is once and for all.

    If this match was for the WWE Championship, then I might lean towards the idea of a true winner being necessary here, but the WWE Championship isn't on the line here. Once the crowd settles down for a minute, and the stare down ends, these two are going to go at each other like there's no tomorrow. Rock and Cena want to prove, who the better the man is, and both men have shown flashes of some real anger problems in the past. Rock VS Cena is a situation that's just waiting to explode, and a no contest finish could keep this feud fresh for a future match somehwere down the line.
     
    #7
  8. The Big Gunnzbowski

    The Big Gunnzbowski Damas y Caballeros...

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    I believe that The Rock will win this match and this is why...

    Stone Cold Steve Austin said something in an interview recently that makes plenty of sense, that I agree with. The Rock has earned the right to come and go as he pleases, so long as it is good for business. This match has been built for a year... A YEAR! Both competitors have taken personal jabs at each other, some scripted, some not (it's all in the wrist!), and the feud actually goes back awhile.

    The Rock has been known as being one of, if not the "best" on the microphone and Cena gives him a run for his money. The Rock has also already publicly said that he will be wrestling at Wrestlemania next year. What will The Rock gain from winning this match? The ability to rub it in John Cenas face; The faces of the John Cena fans that have stood behind him no matter what. The ability to say "The Rock still has it!"

    Everybody expects John Cena to win this match. He is always the underdog and he isn't going to allow this movie star to come into his house and act like he's still top dog. It is going to be close, but The Rock will emerge victorious at Wrestlemania 28, so that we can see Cena get his "Wrestlemania Revenge" at Wrestlemania 29!
     
    #8
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  9. IHW

    IHW WZCW's Brent Blaze

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    After reading both of your opening statements, I have came up with a few points I would like to voice.

    Yeah, a no contest isn’t that far fetched, but that would waste the entire build. You do not want to spend so much time and money and then end the match in a no contest. A winner in this situation is a must.




    I disagree with this. A win for John Cena would sky rocket him into the future. A no contest would be a wasted opportunity. This is WrestleMania. This is the biggest Pro Wrestling Event throughout the entire year. Not only is this the biggest event, Rock vs. Cena is being called the biggest match in the history of WWE. And you say it should end in a no contest?


    This match between Cena and Rock is where the payoff needs to take place. The WWE has spent a whole year in the build for this match; there is no need for another year build.


    There needs not to be a rematch. Rock should put Cena over at WM28. The WWE shouldn’t waste this mega match at WrestleMania just to have a rematch. Cena needs that win over the Rock this year. A no contest may not hurt either man, but someone needs to gain something from this match!


    [QUOTE="The Living Legend" Johnny Gunnz;3779244]I believe that The Rock will win this match and this is why...

    Stone Cold Steve Austin said something in an interview recently that makes plenty of sense, that I agree with. The Rock has earned the right to come and go as he pleases, so long as it is good for business. This match has been built for a year... A YEAR! Both competitors have taken personal jabs at each other, some scripted, some not (it's all in the wrist!), and the feud actually goes back awhile.

    The Rock has been known as being one of, if not the "best" on the microphone and Cena gives him a run for his money. The Rock has also already publicly said that he will be wrestling at Wrestlemania next year. What will The Rock gain from winning this match? The ability to rub it in John Cenas face; The faces of the John Cena fans that have stood behind him no matter what. The ability to say "The Rock still has it!"

    Everybody expects John Cena to win this match. He is always the underdog and he isn't going to allow this movie star to come into his house and act like he's still top dog. It is going to be close, but The Rock will emerge victorious at Wrestlemania 28, so that we can see Cena get his "Wrestlemania Revenge" at Wrestlemania 29![/QUOTE]

    I put two things in bold here. This is a contradiction. You put emphasis on the fact that the match has been building for a year, but then you say they should have a rematch next year?
    Why would we need to wait 2 years for the true payoff of John Cena vs. The Rock? That is a very long build.
    Another thing is that the WWE took a huge risk booking this match a year in advance. It seems as if the risk will work out this year, but will it the next?
     
    #9
  10. Mitch Henessey

    Mitch Henessey Deploy the cow-catcher......
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    Nothing will be wasted, if Rock and Cena give the fans a highly entertaining match, and I have no doubt they will. The fans inside Sun Life Stadium will go nuts the entire time, and people watching at home will be at the edge of their seats. Rock and Cena will put on a great show, and you could relive the electric atmosphere again, if a rematch takes place, but if Rock pins Cena clean or vice versa, then there's no real reason to see these two go at it again.

    Does John Cena really need the skyrocket? He's the face of the company, the top guy, a twelve time world champion, and he's already defeated two legends (Triple H and Shawn Michaels) in the main event of Wrestlemania via submission.

    Also, the biggest match in WWE history card has been played before. Andre VS Hogan at Wrestlemania III was dubbed as the biggest main event in sports entertainment. The WWE also used a similar build for Hogan VS Michaels at Summerslam 2005, and Hogan VS Rock at Wrestlemania 18. The "biggest match in WWE history" stuff is a marketing tool, and you can pull it off, when you have two big names coming together for one match. Rock VS Cena isn't the first dream match, and it won't be the last.

    As I said before, a no contest finish will make the rematch feel a lot more interesting, because people will pay to see Rock and Cena settle their differences once and for all.

    Who said anything about another one year build? Rock VS Cena II could take place at another pay per view prior to Wrestlemania (possibly Summerslam?). The Rock might not be able to appear on Raw for a weekly basis, but he will be able to show up every now and then, and he could make an extended feud work. However, IF a rematch does take place at Wrestlemania 29, people will still be interested in seeing these two wrestle each other again. Cena will be able to focus on other feuds, and when the time comes, people will want to see the rematch, because Rock VS Cena II will sell itself.

    The no contest finish would be the better option, because both men won't lose anything, and the rematch will still have that "must-see" feel, and that "foaming at the mouth" type of anticipation will still be there, because John Cena VS The Rock is a big time feud/potential dream match series, that will draw a great amount of interest from die hard and casual pro wrestling fans.

    [QUOTE="The Living Legend" Johnny Gunnz;3779244]I believe that The Rock will win this match and this is why...

    Stone Cold Steve Austin said something in an interview recently that makes plenty of sense, that I agree with. The Rock has earned the right to come and go as he pleases, so long as it is good for business. This match has been built for a year... A YEAR! Both competitors have taken personal jabs at each other, some scripted, some not (it's all in the wrist!), and the feud actually goes back awhile.

    The Rock has been known as being one of, if not the "best" on the microphone and Cena gives him a run for his money. The Rock has also already publicly said that he will be wrestling at Wrestlemania next year. What will The Rock gain from winning this match? The ability to rub it in John Cenas face; The faces of the John Cena fans that have stood behind him no matter what. The ability to say "The Rock still has it!"

    Everybody expects John Cena to win this match. He is always the underdog and he isn't going to allow this movie star to come into his house and act like he's still top dog. It is going to be close, but The Rock will emerge victorious at Wrestlemania 28, so that we can see Cena get his "Wrestlemania Revenge" at Wrestlemania 29![/QUOTE]

    The Rock really doesn't have anything to gain from winning this match. He's done all he can do in the world of professional wrestling. He's main evented numerous Wrestlemanias, he's a nine time world champion, he's had some great feuds over the years, and he's considered to be the biggest pro wrestling star behind Hogan and Austin, and coming in at number three behind those two is nothing to be ashamed of at all. The Rock's movie career has been pretty successful, and he's had some meaningful roles in mainstream Hollywood films. He's moved on to a movie career, and he doesn't have anything left to prove in pro wrestling.

    Bottom line, Rock doesn't need this victory, and a victory over Cena wouldn't do anything for him at all.
     
    #10
  11. The Big Gunnzbowski

    The Big Gunnzbowski Damas y Caballeros...

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    If people are not already expecting Cena to win this match, they're delusional. I would be more surprised to see The Rock win this match, in his hometown, in his return match. Why? It just doesn't.....make.....sense! Why show up, beat the companies top face, and leave? Where is the sense here?

    I highlighted a couple of things here.
    First, The Rock would benefit by branching out his fanbase. You have to remember, there are still scores of WWE fans out there that may have never seen The Rock wrestle before. There are fans out there who have only seen his movies, but no recent matches.

    Second, He has been called the "best of an era", but by defeating the best of this era, could he not be defined as the best of all time? He beat Hogan, the biggest star of the 80's and 90's, adding another notch in the way of the biggest star of the 2000's would solidify his status as "the greatest" and give him a title that could never be taken away.

    Cena actually stands to gain very little from this match other than being able to say "I beat The Rock." I blame this on the way the feud has been handled more than anything. Cena dislikes Rocky for "abandoning" the fans. The Rock simply evolved. Depending on how you look at this feud to begin with, Cena may just look like a jaded fanboy.

    Fans of todays product are fickle. The fans that dislike Cena now will likely loathe Cena if he beats The Rock.

    I sincerely disagree with the bolded statement. I do not believe that The Rock needs to do this, simply because Cena does not need a rub from The Rock in order to be successful. He has been the top star in the WWE since well after The Rock left and will continue to be the top star long after The Rock leaves again.

    Ultimately, my point is that The Rock and John Cena each gain little from a victory in this match. People are looking at it like it is Ali vs Tyson, and that is wrong. This match is Cena vs Rock, nothing more. 2 eras of the WWE colliding. The Rock will walk away with this match, so he can be called the "best of all time".



    This is not a contradiction. I was simply stating the fact that this match has been building for a year. Did we really need that long? A Rumble build would have sufficed... And why not have a rematch if this one sells? The Undertaker and HBK or HHH can hit consecutive 'Manias with a match, but The Rock and Cena doing so wouldn't work? How so? Let's say Cena loses this match. Cena admits defeat, comes up with an excuse, and lays down the next challenge. The Rock refuses unless the stakes are higher... There's your build for the rematch.

    I do not disagree with this statement, but I feel that this match needs a clear winner. This much build for a No Contest would make little to no sense.

    As an alternative to The Rock winning this match, I agree with these other possible outcomes. Prolonging the feud instead of ending it as a one shot deal could definitely help both men save face, draw more money, and bring a proper close to an Era. The Rock winning this match at 'Mania 28 has the better possibility of happening, unless The Rock respects John Cena enough to lose, in his home town, at Wrestlemania.
     
    #11
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  12. IHW

    IHW WZCW's Brent Blaze

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    Yes, this will be a phenomenal match with and electrified crowd. But, how will the crowed react when the match ends with no winner? It is a waste. Fans will be going crazy, but they will be twice as crazy when no one walks out victorious.
    Also, the bold statement, a prime example of a run-on sentence, may be correct. If one man got the pin, there would be no reason for a rematch. And we do not need a rematch! You are supporting everything I have stated with this statement. A win for Cena would close the reason of a rematch, and that is what we need to see. The option of a rematch would ruin the whole first match. These two can only take so many grade school jabs at each other. This match has been building and building and building forever; a rematch means you must continue the build. And I don’t know about you or any of the judges, but I do not want to see an extended build between the two just so we can see more personal jabs at Cena’s look, or more worldwide trends, or hear on and on about Rock writing on his wrist. I am already tired of the child-like arguments between The Rock and Cena. No rematch, period.


    HELL YEAH HE DOES!
    Like I said before, Cena is fading away from his top spot! He needs a new reason to stay at the top! A win over The Rock would provide for a possible character change for Cena. Then, Cena can salvage his fading position. Cena needs this win. It will help him in the long run when he is here and the Rock is not.

    Captain Obvious.


    NO REMATCH! IT WILL NOT HAVE AS BIG OF A FEEL TO IT! The topics from this build have been done to death; we do not need the possibility of another whole year build for a WM29 rematch. And as for a possible Summer Slam match, that will feel nowhere near as big as the first! It is like most movie sequels, they are nowhere near as good the second time around.


    You keep talking about this rematch. No, no, no, no, no! Cena vs. The Rock in the main event at WrestleMania 28 is the payoff match.

    This, just like I pointed out earlier with another topic, supports my pick more then it does yours. You are right here; a victory over Cena would do nothing for The Rock. Thanks for defending me again.


    OVERALL-
    This is WrestleMania, why would the main event end in a senseless no contest? People are paying to see a winner now! This is not Hell In A Cell; this is not Elimination Chamber, or even Over The Limit. This is not a transitional Pay Per View! This match does not, no cannot, be squandered to set up for another! I do not care how many times you say people will pay for a rematch! This is WrestleMania! This is THE match! The WWE has spent so much on this one match! And you are telling me it needs to end in a no contest just so there can be a rematch? Let me answer that for you, wrong! This worldwide phenomenon cannot be used to set up for a rematch at a much, MUCH smaller Pay Per View. This is WrestleMania! This is the match to see! This is the match we the people have been waiting for! This is the top babyface in the WWE John Cena vs. the fan favorite wrestler turned Hollywood star Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson! This is the biggest match of this era of sports entertainment! THIS IS WRESTLEMANIA 28, THE EVENT WHERE JOHN CENA GOES OVER DWAYNE JOHNSON AND WINS THE MATCH EVERYONE WANTS TO SEE!!! A no contest is flat out stupid!

    I am done here.
     
    #12
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  13. Mitch Henessey

    Mitch Henessey Deploy the cow-catcher......
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    The fans will show some anger, but people will still want to support a Rock VS Cena rematch. A no decision finish won't cause the fans to boycott WWE. WWE has survived controversial match finishes in the past, that upset the audience. But WWE has survived controversial match finishes before, and they will survive if it happens again.

    The Rock and John Cena have thrown everything they have at each other. And yes, the build has felt tiresome at times, but the aftermath of a no decision finish could give them some new material to work with. As of right now, we don't know what would happen, if these two squared off, but The Rock and John Cena will be able take shots at each other's performance in the ring once the match ends. Who had the upper hand during the match? Did Rock or Cena take the easy way out? Rock and Cena will have some new material to work with, and they should be able to bring something different to the table.


    How is Cena fading away from his top spot? Cena stayed in the main event for all of 2011, he was in the main event for the vast majority of WWE's 2011 pay per views, and he was a consistent force in the WWE Championship picture last year. Also, He just finished a pretty high profiled feud with Kane, and their ambulance match main evented the Elimination Chamber pay per view this year. Cena is still in the spotlight, and he hasn't faded away at all.

    As far as the character change goes, I don't think it'll happen. His character might undergo a few tweaks here and there, but a complete overhaul isn't necessary. John Cena still receives a strong reaction, when he enters any arena, and he does have his fair share of supporters.

    :shrug:

    The bolded part might be true, but interest in another Rock/Cena match will be there regardless. The match could take place at Summerslam or Mania 29, but fans will support another Rock/John Cena match, because these two can bring plenty of star power for a big time blockbuster wrestling match.



    A rematch between these two wouldn't cause the end of the world. As I've said many times before, there's a lot of money to be made with another Rock/Cena match, and WWE will milk this feud for all it's worth, if they want to. And a no contest finish would create a more intriguing storyline for the next match up between both men.


    :lmao:

    Defending you? No. I was just trying to shot down Gunnz's argument for Rock winning the match, just like you're trying to shot down my no contest argument. That's why were having this debate in the first place.

    Rock VS Cena II could become a nice cash cow for WWE. You can try to fight and ignore it all you want, but people WILL want to see another match between both men. If WWE can squeeze another match out of these two, they will. It's that simple. The WWE is a business, Vince McMahon is a businessman, and he will not pass up a golden opportunity for another match. A no contest finish could provide an unbelievable cliffhanger for fans, and a rematch could STILL create a good amount of buzz, when or if it happens.

    [QUOTE="The Living Legend" Johnny Gunnz;3779638]
    I do not disagree with this statement, but I feel that this match needs a clear winner. This much build for a No Contest would make little to no sense.

    As an alternative to The Rock winning this match, I agree with these other possible outcomes. Prolonging the feud instead of ending it as a one shot deal could definitely help both men save face, draw more money, and bring a proper close to an Era. The Rock winning this match at 'Mania 28 has the better possibility of happening, unless The Rock respects John Cena enough to lose, in his home town, at Wrestlemania.
    [/QUOTE]

    The no contest finish opens up more possibilities for a second match, and fans will want to see it. A clean victory for The Rock on April 1st seems highly unlikely, because as I've said before, he really doesn't have anything to gain from a win over Cena at Wrestlemania.
     
    #13
  14. The Big Gunnzbowski

    The Big Gunnzbowski Damas y Caballeros...

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    Was I? Or was I simply pointing out the fact that the WWE is not adverse to making these kinds of decisions? While I'm sure The Rock has no problem doing the job for Cena at Mania, it is a very real possibility that he could walk away with the victory.



    How? Cena is the "Mortal Champion". He loses. He's not Superman. How does Cena look weak if he loses? Neither one will look "worse" for the loss. It's The Rock and John Cena. You keep saying that The Rock has nothing to gain from winning this match. I disagree. He gains plenty, but you seem to keep overlooking these things. You seem to forget the biggest part of The Rock's persona; his ego.


    Are you kidding me? John Cena could rescue a group of orphans from a burning building on live TV and he would get booed. You mean to tell me that booing Cena now doesn't make people look stupid in some sense? He's a face, has been for a very long time, yet he gets booed out of the building every week. This situation is lose-lose for John Cena, while The Rock can still prove something.




    Calling me Vince Russo would require some sort of intelligent justification to back it, but I shall not hold my breathe on this one.

    Maybe an excuse wasn't the right word... My point is that if Cena loses, he'll come out on Monday and praise The Rock for being the "Better man" at Mania. He's good at taking a loss. We have seen it over...and over...and over...

    Did you just say that something the WWE does has been used over and over again? Has thet ever stopped them from doing anything?!


    This is a debate, not an English class.


    (You forgot to mention Cenas 'lady parts'.)

    Allow me to disprove the bold sentence, if I may:

    1. Mr Perfect vs Bret Hart
    Semi Finals King of the Ring. 1993
    Rematch from SummerSlam 1991

    2. Ricky Steamboat vs Ric Flair
    Clash of Champions-2/3 falls match.
    Rematch from Chi Town Rumble 1989.

    3. Bret Hart vs Steve Austin
    Wrestlemania 13.
    Rematch from Survivor Series 1996

    4. John Cena vs Shawn Michaels
    Raw in London.
    Rematch From Wrestlemania 23.

    All of these matches were rematches that far surpassed the awesomeness of the original match. Steamboat vs Flair topped what was already considered the greatest match of all time, from the Chi-Town Rumble.





    A loss for Cena would also provide a possible character change for him. Much more than a win would, I guarantee that. Cena's position "on top" is not fading. Stepping aside for younger, fresher talent to make a name is hardly giving it up or quitting. Once all this Rock vs Cena; Punk vs Jericho nonsense is over with, you'll see Cena back in the title picture. Until then, The Rock beating John Cena at Wrestlemania will be a pill we have to swallow for quite some time.




    Refer to my post above about rematches having the potential to be bigger and better than the original matches.



    :lol: Again, refer to my list.



    You have done nothing to prove the point that a no contest is stupid. Nothing. You have not said a single word that has made any sense, in regards to this being a stupid ending. It makes more sense than Cena winning the match, that is for sure.

    My overall point is not as complicated as you gentlemen seem to want to make it.

    The Rock comes back, proves why he is "The Most Electrifying Man in ALL of Entertainment", to prove that he is "The best of all time", and to put the exclamation point on the answer to one of Cena's comments that started this all to begin with:

    Cena: "Our fan base have so much admiration for him, he's got to respect that. He doesn't give anything back."

    Except that hand-delivering an ass-whooping to Cena at Wrestlemania would be like giving all of those booing fans (more than likely all members of "Team Bring It") an early Christmas present. More than enough to ride off into the sunset with...
     
    #14
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  15. Dagger Dias

    Dagger Dias Natural 20
    Staff Member Super Moderator

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    And.... Stop. That is three posts from all participants.

    The judges will now begin scoring your performance. Great job by all three of you, and best of luck to whoever moves on to the bracket.
     
    #15
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  16. D-Man

    D-Man Gone but never forgotten.

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    Well done, gentlemen. Dagger is correct... debating has concluded in this round.

    Judges, please do your thing. The quicker this round is judges, the quicker we can complete the brackets process and get this show on the road.

    Good luck to Gunnz, Mitch, and IHW and congratulations on a killer, first debate!!
     
    #16
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  17. CH David

    CH David A Jock That Loves Pepsi

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    Clarity- As this was the first debate in about a year and a half, and these guys weren't a part of one I was curious how it was going to look. The opening and closing are very important. Mitch had an excellent opener, with most of what I look for. Bold, italics, and numbers. IHW and Gunnz had solid conclusions, but Mitch's opener gives him this point.

    Point - Mitch

    Punctuality - Nobody was late, but I'm giving this to IHW. He was posting his responses very quickly after the others.

    Point - IHW

    Informative - This is a point reserved for information you can dig up. I didn't see much of that, but then Gunnz made his final post and brought out rematches that are argued to be better than their predecessor. I liked that.

    Point - "The Living Legend" Johnny Gunnz

    Persuasion - It could just be me, but I didn't see much attempt at persuading the judges to their side. I want reasons why I should give you the points.

    IHW was trying to talk about Cena winning being a surprise and it sounds good, but there is no fluff for it. I'm already on his side in my head because I believe Cena is going to win. However he didn't present a good enough argument, in my opinion, to take these points. I liked Gunnz finally bringing up a possible character change if he were to lose. If it were brought up earlier and he expanded, these would be his. But Mitch did a very good job defending the no-contest and potential rematch. This is a feud that the WWE would want to milk. How do you get a legitimate rematch out of the options without being petty? No-contest.

    Points - Mitch

    CH David scores this Mitch 3, Johnny Gunnz 1, and IHW 1.
     
    #17
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  18. Nate DaMac

    Nate DaMac Fuck erbody but me

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    Clarity- I'm giving it to Mitch. Great opener, couldn't be more clear on what side he was taking.

    Point- Mitch

    Punctuality- No one was late, but over the course of the past couple days I saw IHW's name down in the "Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread" chomping at the bits. He was quick to respond.

    Point- IHW

    Informative- It's a topic based highly on opinion, but Gunnz was the only one who really brought in facts to try and back his argument up.

    Point- Gunnz

    Persuasion- I think each side made a decent case for their position, but I'm going to give it to Mitch. He was adamant about his position being the only logical outcome and broke down the opposing ideas from every angle.

    Point- Mitch

    Nate scores this Mitch 3, IHW 1, Gunnz 1.
     
    #18
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  19. FunKay the Inevitable

    FunKay the Inevitable People Like Me, We Don't Play

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    Clarity: Mitch was able to lay out his points, stick to them and keep pushing his argument. At no point did I sit and think "that's a bit of a contradiction". He was clear, and concise at all times.

    Punctuality: IHW was the fastest with his responses. No one did anything wrong, he was merely quicker.

    Informative: Gunnz was really the only person who brought any real information to the table from outside sources (Austin interview being an example). The point is his.

    Persuasion: Difficult. I side with IHW from a personal perspective and did buy into what he was saying, but at the same time, I felt Mitch did a much better job of analysing his own argument as well as his enemies. He focused on not just the negatives of his opponents, but also his own positives. I didn't feel Gunnz at all in this area. I think IHW put up a strong fight, but Mitch was the victor here.

    FunKay Scores it as follows: Mitch: 3, IHW: 1, Gunnz: 1.
     
    #19
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  20. SavageTaker

    SavageTaker Everybody Has A Price!

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    Clarity of debate - Mitch had the more organized and clear opening post so I'll give him the point.

    Punctuality - IWH was quick to submit his rebuttals so he gets the point here.

    Informative - If I could, I honestly would not award this point to anyone. Some of you did bring up past matches to back up your side of the argument but never expanded on it to the point where I was somehow convinced that the info you provided could prove your point correct. For example, I would have loved if Mitch pointed out how a no contest in other matches has actually helped feuds in order to continue them so it could lead to the same thing here. Also, you guys said a lot of things that were opinion based in your post, and there's nothing with that, but I would have also liked it if you had dug up some ratings info and other facts to prove your points.

    So because I have to award the point, it's going to go to Gunnz. Although I was disappointed in this part of the debate, I felt that Gunnz did a good job of disproving the myth about matches that are sequels. Like I said though, when you brought up those matches, there's many facts and quotes you could have used so that people really believe what you said. You can tell us those matches were great, but what if I've never seen them? Give me a statistic about the event or a quote from someone like JR and I might not have to even see the match to understand its impact or greatness.

    Persuasion -
    When I saw the topic I immediately thought this was going to be a walk on the park for whoever chooses John Cena to win. However, here came Mitch and completely changed my mind. Once I read his opening post and replies, I was truly convinced that the best thing that could happen in this match would be it ending it a no contest. All of the participants did a good job, but I was much more convinced by Mitch's position since he explained it so well and really did a good job of making us believe it's a possibility.

    Mitch: 3 Points
    IHW: 1 Point
    Gunnz: 1 Point
     
    #20
  21. D-Man

    D-Man Gone but never forgotten.

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    And this one's over, ladies and germs.

    Congratulations to Mitch (a.k.a. R.J. MacReady) for earning the final bracket spot in this year's Debater's League Tournament!!

    A fantastic job by all three participants. You guys really showed everyone what it's all about and gave us a great indicator that this year should be quite the battle!!
     
    #21
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