Phoenix Region, Third Round: Submission: (3) Triple H vs. (6) Brock Lesnar

[klunderbunker]

The following contest is a third round match in the Phoenix Region.

This match takes place in University of Phoenix Stadium, Phoenix, Arizona.

It is a Submission Match.

Rules: In this match, the only way to win is via submission. Pinfalls do not count.

#3 Triple H

Vs.

#6 Brock Lesnar

This contest is one fall with a 30 minute time limit. The match will take place in a 16 x 16 ring with no ramp leading to it. Any traditional managers for either competitor will be allowed at ringside.

As for voting, vote for who you think would win this match based on the criteria you choose. Some suggestions would be (not limited to): in ring ability, overall skill, their level of influence at the highest point in their career, ability to connect with the crowd, experience in major matches or simply personal preference etc.

The most votes in the voting period wins and in the case of a tie, the most written votes wins. There is one written vote per user, meaning if a poster make ten posts saying Bret should win that will count as a single vote. In the event of a second tie, both men are ELIMINATED, no questions asked. Only winners advance.

Voting will open in 48 hours and will be open for five days and all posts must be non-spam. You may use the 48 hours to present your cases as to why either competitor should/should not win.​

 

[Hyorinmaru]

On one hand you have Triple H one of the greats in the business but someone who rarely uses a submisson move to win a match ever.

On the other hand you have Brock Lesnar who has put people on the shelf with his Brock Lock submisson move and has won many matches using it.

Both men were/are great but I have to give this one to Lesnar. He has more experience using submissons to win matches and there is no doubt in my mind that Brock would power through whatever Triple H throws at him, work on the leg and put Triple H in the Brock Lock for the win and advances to round 4.

 

[FunKay the Inevitable]

Much like HBK vs. Hennig, this is another that I have to give to the guy who's lower ranked in Lesnar. Triple H was mentored by the dirtiest player in the game in Ric Flair, a guy who used the figure four, which Triple used on a semi-regular basis during and after his years with Flair, but exactly how often did anyone submit to that manoeuvre? Then you look at a guy like Lesnar, who I'll admit doesn't win by submission often either, but he has two moves in his arsenal which have lead to two big wins via submission; the Bear Hug and the Brock Lock. The Brock Lock made Chris Benoit pass out, and the Bear Hug did the same to Hulk Hogan of all people, ending his comeback in 2002. I’m going with Lesnar.

 

[Tastycles]

Jesus. I cannot stand Brock Lesnar, but I'm going to have to vote for him here. In literally every other match, I'd have given this to Triple H, but here, I think Lesnar has it. Lesnar has destroyed Hulk Hogan with a bear hug. Beating anyone in the 21st Century with a bear hug is impressive, but Hogan even more so. Triple H has let rising stars beat him before, so I won't buy that argument, before it's made, and I think the complete lack of submission moves in his repertoire, outside the crossface which he's never won a match with to my memory means that he will lose this one in the end.

 

[Dave]

In one of the biggest displayed of mark behaviour, I will be voting for The Game here.

Don't get me wrong, Brock Lesnar is an absolute beast of a man and really brings it to this match, as he would with every single other match. However, I have to think that Triple H would get the better of him in the end. The fact of the matter is that Triple H is just much better in the ring. Brock may be a behemoth but he is a brainless brute at times and you can fully expect Triple H to take advantage of that in this match.

I would also like to point out that the only way this match can end is through a submission performed in the ring. That means that there is no DQ and that has to favour The Game. Triple H has made his name off of being the cerebral assassin. He knows better than most how to pick apart an opponent and leave them wanting no more. Brock Lesnar may have had a great run in the WWE in his short time but Triple H just has it all over Brock in every single aspect. Brock may be stronger but Triple H is no slouch.

Really, I think this match comes down to playing it smart. Triple H can pick apart Lesnar until it wont take much for him to be tapping for mercy in the middle of the ring. When you deplete your opponent so much that they don't even need to tap out to a submission, that is when you know you have truly beaten a man and that is how I see this match going. Brock just doesn't have the experience, skill or ring-knowledge that Triple H does and that is why Triple H will go over in this match.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

I would also like to point out that the only way this match can end is through a submission performed in the ring. That means that there is no DQ and that has to favour The Game. Triple H has made his name off of being the cerebral assassin. He knows better than most how to pick apart an opponent and leave them wanting no more. Brock Lesnar may have had a great run in the WWE in his short time but Triple H just has it all over Brock in every single aspect. Brock may be stronger but Triple H is no slouch.

Really, I think this match comes down to playing it smart. Triple H can pick apart Lesnar until it wont take much for him to be tapping for mercy in the middle of the ring. When you deplete your opponent so much that they don't even need to tap out to a submission, that is when you know you have truly beaten a man and that is how I see this match going. Brock just doesn't have the experience, skill or ring-knowledge that Triple H does and that is why Triple H will go over in this match.

I've to agree with PowerTrip, yes it is near unheard of for Trips to win with anything except the Pedigree (which is sad, because his Double A spinebuster is first class) but anyone carrying the moniker of the Cerebral Assassin isn't walking into this match unprepared.

I see this match going 15-20 minutes with Hunter mainly taking the beating and hanging on by the skin of teeth. About this time he'll get knocked out of the ring on what would be the commentator's desk side in WWe and fall towards the ring steps on the near side hard camera angle, were old faithful will be waiting. He'll hide the sledge to his chest and when Brock closes in he'll take out the knee. After a prolonged attack of a couple minutes he'll administer the Figure Four and, like Rey had to give up to Chavo, Brock'll either have to tap or lose out to stoppage due to unconsciousness.

 

[Uncle Sam]

To add to Tastycles' typically entirely correct answer - so, you know, scroll up, read it, rep him - I feel obliged to point out the following. The following is, well, as follows. I hope you're following.

Triple H is a man that tore his quadriceps completely off the bone interrupting a submission attempt. Brock Lesnar has designs on picking him up by his leg. Come the fuck on.

 

[The Crock]

I'm voting for Lesnar here. Lesnar is a great wrestler, and he'd be able to lock in a submission on Triple H. Although, the Brock Lock would be a little harder to lock in on an opponent Triple H's size, once it would be successfully locked in, it would actually be more effective. Wouldn't Triple H's weight work against him there? It would pull him downward, away from his leg. That would make the submission more excruciating. On the other hand, the bear hug could effectively put HHH out too. Lesnar is a beast of a man, and honestly if he locked it in, which would be the hard part, he'd get HHH easily. The force that Lesnar could generate is far too much for any man to withstand.

Now, this isn't meant to totally diminish what Triple H is capable of. Sure, he'd pick apart Lesnar, probably focus on one body part... that being said, there's only one submission Triple H could lock in here: The Figure Four Leg Lock. I've seen him use it before, it's not as if he is totally inept. The problem with that is that he would have to SURVIVE long enough to chip away at Lesnar's knees/legs. The Cerebral Assassin has made a career on picking people apart, but I can see him being the one that gets picked apart here. Lesnar offense is very high impact, it would only take a few of his moves before he could lock in his submissions and try to get HHH tired enough to tap. Lesnar wins here.

 

[El Rev sXe]

I agree with Dave, HHH has the benefit of the no DQ and the fact he had at his side the dirtiest player on the game: Ric Flair. I actually think a couple of shots with the sledgehammer, and after a couple of figuer four leglocks and at least one indian deathlock, HHH could pull a win here.

Brock is a beast, even in UFC we see how violent this man is, but how many times we have seen him win via submission? Well that doesn't matter, however the man uses his strenght too much, while HHH IS the cerebral assasin.

HHH wins.

 

[The Crock]

I agree with Dave, HHH has the benefit of the no DQ and the fact he had at his side the dirtiest player on the game: Ric Flair. I actually think a couple of shots with the sledgehammer, and after a couple of figuer four leglocks and at least one indian deathlock, HHH could pull a win here.

Brock is a beast, even in UFC we see how violent this man is, but how many times we have seen him win via submission? Well that doesn't matter, however the man uses his strenght too much, while HHH IS the cerebral assasin.

HHH wins.

See his Shane Carwin fight, he wins via submission. To say we never saw Brock win via submission is beyond me. He used the Brock Lock and the bear hug on a multitude of opponents. From Benoit to Hogan, many have felt the wrath of a Brock Lesnar submission. Also, his strength would come as an advantage, as it would lead to more high impact moves which tire your opponent out, something that is PIVOTAL in a submission match. The more tired your opponent is, the easier to incapacitate him.

 

[PsychoBlack]

Lesnar wins this one. It will be a war, but HHH has no submission prowess. I don't think he can get the job done against Brock who has two or three submissions that he can put you away with.

Brock Lock FTW

 

[Nate DaMac]

Yeah, if Lesnar can make a trained fighter tap out, I have no doubt that he can destroy a fake fighter with bad legs tap.

I'm not going to argue the legacy of these men as Hunter obviously trumps Lesnar in that category. But these gimmicks gotta mean something, that's why I'm taking Brock.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

Yeah, I'm voting for Brock. If for no other reason than Brock has actually beaten someone by way of submission, and I don't recall HHH ever making someone tap out. Combine that with Brock's amateur background, and HHH really doesn't stand a chance in this match. There are certain types of matches that may put this on a level playing field (Hell in a Cell, Street Fight, Last Man Standing, etc.), but this one isn't it.

I'm voting Brock Lesnar.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

This one would be a war. Two of the toughest men around going at it, throwing everything at each other. I could see this going a long time, as both men have too much pride to tap out to the other.

HHH will use the Sledgehammer to Lesnars knee, and then lock in the figure 4but Brock won't give in and powers out, Lesnar locks the Bearhug around HHH's waist but The Game fights his way out of it.

The only way I can see this one ending is by foreign object. If HHH can keep Lesnar on the mat long enough, enough Sledgehammer shots to the knee will force Brock to submit, if only to avoid permenant damage. Helmsley is smart enough and experienced enough to find a way to take down the monster.

HHH to go through

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

Yeah, if Lesnar can make a trained fighter tap out, I have no doubt that he can destroy a fake fighter with bad legs tap.

I'm not going to argue the legacy of these men as Hunter obviously trumps Lesnar in that category. But these gimmicks gotta mean something, that's why I'm taking Brock.

True, gimmicks do have to mean something but then again this has been used in the past to 'exploit' wrestlers who don't traditionally use submission holds. Most recently, it has been the Undertaker who debuted his Hell's Gate.

Kayfabewise, the underdog finds a way to overcome the stip that isn't in his favor - and as the Natural and I theorise, Trips would overcome this obstacle with the aid of his trusty sledge... after all, there's no dq in a submission only match.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

I think that Triple H will win this one. Before I say why I want you to completely forget about what Lesnar has done in MMA. This is about Lesnar the pro wrestler, not Lesnar the UFC fighter. Hell Ken Shamrock might be able to defeat all the guys in the tournament but he has not even made the tournament because he is a not a very good pro wrestler.

The fact is that HHH has plenty of submission moves at his disposal. Apart from the Figure Four and the Crossface there is the Indian Deathlock which he has used on occasions and this is what it has done.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fO8WDXd9dg

This is a video of HHH's match with Booker T at WrestleMania 19. Look at how much damage the Indian Deathlock did. Booker had two chances to put HHH away but each time he failed because it took him time to make the cover because his leg had been damaged by HHH's use of the Indian Deathlock.

Triple H is a way more methodical wrestler than Brock is. He is known to work on specific body parts while Brock Lesnar is mainly a power wrestler. I would not read too much into him defeating Hogan with the bearhug as Hogan lost a lot during his 2002 run. Kayfabe wise that can be translated to having a poor year which even the best of wrestlers can have.

Also the Brock Lock is not an easy hold to apply to a guy like HHH. It can be applied to a Chris Benoit due to his small size but applying it to HHH is a different story altogether.

I think HHH will be able to put Brock away due to the fact that he is a methodical wrestler unlike Brock and because the Brock Lock is a difficult move to apply unlike the Figure Four or the Indian Deathlock that HHH uses.

Vote HHH!

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

HHH may have used that move on Booker T but did he use it to make him tap out? No he didn't so Booker T trying to make the cover and the match itself is irrelevant in this cause. Brock Lesnar has thrown around The Undertaker and Big Show like it was nothing. Am I really supposed to believe that he couldn't put the Brock Lock on HHH?

 

[Alastor]

I believe the HHH in his prime would do whatever it takes to win, meaning the use of the trusty sledgehammer and outside interference by either Evolution or DX. He would use the figure four leg lock after sledgehammer blows to Brock. Brock may be a beast but even he cannot fight alone against the whole of Evolution or DX.

 

[spinningtorturerack]

I see Brock Lesnar coming out on top of this war against the king of kings.

Brock is trained as a traditional mat wrestler where he fought technically first. I think however resourceful HHH is at picking apart his opponents, Lesnar is also resourceful in using a wider variety of moves. If Brock could keep HHH in the ring he would easily win.

 

[CH David]

Lulz. At least Dave mentioned being a huge Triple H mark. This is Lesnar's and there shouldn't really be a question about this. What because Trips can use a sledgehammer that automatically means win? Fuck that. Brock can use weapons as well. Not to mention he demolished just about all the wrestlers he faced in his short time in the E. He made Hulk Hogan pass out and won via submission with a bear hug. Hulk fucking Hogan, ladies and germs, passed out to Brock Lesnar. Or he could go the route of the leg over the shoulder Brock Lock. Here's an idea, Brock uses a chair to combat the sledgehammer, hits Hunter in the knee/quad area and then applies the Brock Lock. At the 13:00 minute mark it's game fucking over.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Lesnar has my vote. Triple H is a known impact wrestler, and though Brock is too, I see his mat wrestling experience at a big tipping point in his favor. I am NOT taking his MMA career into account, because this match in Brock's prime would occur prior to his MMA career.

I do want to say that all of you who are invoking Evolution into this match - just stop it. If you have to justify a vote for Triple H by stating that 3 or 4 guys will be on the outside helping him, then all you are doing is explaining why he is inferior. Example:

I believe the HHH in his prime would do whatever it takes to win, meaning the use of the trusty sledgehammer and outside interference by either Evolution or DX. He would use the figure four leg lock after sledgehammer blows to Brock. Brock may be a beast but even he cannot fight alone against the whole of Evolution or DX.

Nowhere up there does it say "handicap match" and really you're disrespecting HHH by suggesting he can only win with help. In a one-on-one submission match, I give the nod to Brock Lesnar.

 

[Shocky]

Talk about a shit gimmick match draw for Triple H. If there is one weakness in this man's arsenal, Submission wrestling is that.

Yes, Triple H has utilized the crippler crossface, a move that Lesnar has tapped out to. However, Triple H has never been able to convincingly use that move, and I don't recall Triple H ever making anyone submit to that one maneuver.

The figure four leglock is the same thing with The Game. Yes, the man has utilized that maneuver, but he has never made it an effective part of his arsenal. The big shame with Triple H, he's more Harley Race then Ric Flair. Why in the hell did Triple H never fully utilize the Indian Death Lock? He used it several times in 2003, but haven't seen much of it.

Brock Lesnar is no submission machine. Let's take the UFC thing out of it, because that really has no place in a kayfabe reality of this tournament. The guy has made Benoit tap with the Brock Lock. For those that believe Brock Lesnar couldn't do that to Triple H, get real. You're talking about a guy that routinely picked up men much larger with ease. Triple H is lighter then Brock Lesnar, why anyone would think he couldn't hit that maneuver is beyond me.

As others have brought up as well, Brock Lesnar beat Hulk Hogan with a bear hug. Hulk Hogan, beaten by a bear hug, let that sink in.

The one thing that could work into Triple H's favor, and I guess KB would have to clarify the rule, could Triple H beat Brock Lesnar into submission. If that's the case, then that's obviously a way out for the game. Triple H isn't going to make Brock Lesnar tap out, but if he beats him into unconsciousness, then that could work. However, Triple H has had next to zero luck facing guys like Lesnar. The Game was destroyed in feuds by the likes of Goldberg and Batista. Lesnar is cut from the same mold.

Better professional wrestler overall, you'd be a full not to vote for Triple H. Triple H in this match type, I just don't see it happening.

 

[SavageTaker]

Aside from what Shocky pointed out, I think we also need some clarification on whether everything goes or not in this match. If that is the case, then a case can definitely be made for Triple H.

In the past we've seen Steve Austin attempting to get Bret Hart to submit by chocking him with a cable. If Austin was capable of trying that, then so is Trips. But let's not limit this to just cables and wires, there are many other weapons available to both wrestlers such as ladders, chairs, the ropes, et.c. Furthermore, and this only counts if everything goes in this match, Triple H could beat Lesnar to the point of no return. With Lesnar being senseless, Triple H could apply any submission move and have the referee raise his hand three times. If there is no response from Lesnar, then Triple H is automatically announced the winner via submission.

That is all plausible and before anyone feels the need to tell me the same goes for Lesnar, I know that. That's why such a scenario is a double-edged sword. So Triple H winning here is completely possible and he might just receive my vote once we get clarification from KB. If everything doesn't go then I will most likely be voting for Brock because of the aforementioned reasons.

 

[Burnout]

Tough one. Brock is a total beast, and as many have mentioned, he has been very impressive in some of his submission feats. Trips, no doubt fantastic, this just isn't a great match for him. Any other match, I say I'd vote for Triple H, but regarding submission, I think I'll give my vote to Brock. A bear hug on Hogan just shows his submission prowess. There may be ways around it for HHH as others above mentioned, but in reality, HHH is not making Brock tap, so Brock goes through for me.

 

[SavageTaker]

Tough one. Brock is a total beast, and as many have mentioned, he has been very impressive in some of his submission feats. Trips, no doubt fantastic, this just isn't a great match for him. Any other match, I say I'd vote for Triple H, but regarding submission, I think I'll give my vote to Brock. A bear hug on Hogan just shows his submission prowess. There may be ways around it for HHH as others above mentioned, but in reality, HHH is not making Brock tap, so Brock goes through for me.

You're right, Trips may not be making Brock tap out. However, people seem to be forgetting that in order to win a submission match you don't need to necessarily make your opponent tap. If Triple H can hang in there long enough and hand out enough damage, then he can make Brock pass out and win this match. And if everything goes here, then Triple H's job becomes much easier since weapons will be available so he'll be able to inflict much more damage.

Yes, the weapons will also be available to Brock however, we have to remember he doesn't have as much experience as Trips when it comes to wrestling. Triple H has wrestled in way more matches, has faced many more opponents that wrestled different styles and has more experience in different gimmick matches. So if the veteran in Triple H catches him in one careless mistake then it could be game over for Brock and one more round HHH survives. So let's not count him out just yet until we get clarification from KB.