Part-time Wrestlers: Are They Worth It?

[Mustang Sally]

Logic might tell us that having people like Chris Jericho, Brock Lesnar and Rob Van Dam perform on an abbreviated basis is better than not having them at all.

But is it so?

In reality, trying to analyze this is impossible since we don't know what they're costing WWE. Sure, it's easy for us to tell the company to pony up big bucks for these guys. Since it isn't our money, what do we care how much they have to pay?

But I'd like to know whether they're getting bang for their bucks; whether what they're paying these men is worth it......and how this is determined.

How much is gained in viewers tuning into TV broadcasts when RVD performs 6 months out of the year, as opposed to a full-time schedule? How are his merchandise sales affected? How hard is it for the writers to come up with stuff for him to do, knowing whatever they create has to be curtailed when it's time for Rob to take his extended break? Does RVD even care what they have him doing? Plainly, he's functioned as an enhancement talent much of the time since his return....and I presume he's okay with it, or he wouldn't have come back. Does he like it? Do you like it?

Then, there's Brock. What we see on our TV screens suggests his deal is bigger than the other part-timers, right? He performs far, far less than RVD or Jericho, yet the build-up to each of his returns dwarfs the other two guys. I can't even hazard a guess at what the company is paying Brock.....can you? But given that they keep bringing him back surely indicates he's worth it. Is he?

Lately, we've been talking about Kurt Angle who, apparently, wants the same part-time deal as these other gentlemen and.....from what we've read in past months on pro wrestling hotlines....seemed to feel he'd have no trouble getting one.

Now, it appears he might have been wrong, although it would be just like WWE to have him run in at the Royal Rumble and eliminate a few people before bowing out.....this, after having not heard a peep from him in the months leading up to January. Recent rumors, though, have him staying at TNA, probably with his tail between his legs after overstating his worth to the pro wrestling industry.

But if WWE doesn't want him part-time, does it call into question the idea of what these "sometimes" performers bring to the party? Is WWE re-thinking the idea altogether......or does it apply this time only to Angle? What formula does WWE use to determine this.....and how does it pertain to their (apparent) refusal of Kurt Angle's services?

Obviously, the list of all-time great wrestlers who could command this type of deal is extremely limited. I've been trying to come up with others who might qualify....and all I could think of is Goldberg. Maybe you could come up with others, but it's a short list, in any case.

In short, are part-timers worth the investment?

 

[AlexWWE21]

If Brock, wasn't champion I wouldn't have a problem with him being a part timer.
BUT, the problem I have with part timers is when they get involved with the titles. I think part timers should be putting over the younger current superstars like Chris Jericho does.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

If Brock, wasn't champion I wouldn't have a problem with him being a part timer.
BUT, the problem I have with part timers is when they get involved with the titles. I think part timers should be putting over the younger current superstars like Chris Jericho does.

That's pretty much how I see it. Part time talent like RVD and Chris Jericho put over other guys when it's all said & done. The downside to using them is that we know what's ultimately gonna happen with them and it ultimately keeps them in a certain level on the roster.

With Brock Lesnar, it looks like WWE is taking something of a calculated risk in the hopes of making Lesnar's title defenses feel more special. As a fan, it does sometimes irk me to see Lesnar get such preferential treatment but, looking at things objectively, it's not hard to see why he gets it. He does generate a lot of buzz, gets some mainstream attention, he does draw ratings and helps increase ppv buys and WWE Network subscribers. I understand but, as a fan, that still doesn't mean that I 100% have to like it. However, because he's a part timer, I think it's natural to feel some degree of animosity towards him and WWE management. It's a natural feeling to wanna see people who bust their asses to succeed and get ahead in life, it's also natural to wanna see people who have genuine love and passion for what they do reap the rewards. Brock Lesnar is a mercenary with no real love, passion or heart for anything he's ever done, yet he has tons of ability to deliver whenever and wherever it counts. Seeing someone who can deliver, yet doesn't have the heart or passion can cause some to dislike that person even more.

 

[The5MoveShuffle]

I agree they should be putting govern the younger guys but occasionally the part timer would need to win to maintain some credibility. Kinda like how Kane is basically a high end jobber at this point. When's he last time he won a match clean?

 

[LBGetBack]

Umm....if their performances are good, sure. Why not?

I truly don't understand why some fans get worked up over this. Why do you/they care if some "nobody" wrestler isn't getting their "chance" due to part time "somebody" wrestlers? My mentality is: Put the best guys on the shows that I watch.....full time, part time, young, old....I don't care. Just put the best guys on.

Brock and Jericho are certainly still among the best guys. RVD....might be.

To sum it up......Kevin Nash who is 87 years old and can barely move? No. No thanks. There's a lot of guys better than him. Chris Jericho? Still very good in the ring, on the mic, etc.? Absolutely. Put him on. Kurt Angle? I haven't followed TNA closely recently, but last time I saw him he still looked very good. I'd love to see him back in WWE in any capacity.

Fans who get mad and take it personally that somebody isn't willing to be in the WWE 24/7/365 are a weird bunch to me. Frankly, I bet every single wrestler would take those "part time" deals if they could get them.....and if more guys had them, we'd get fewer drug-addicted messes croaking in young-middle age.

 

[monkybutt]

they have always been part time guys!!!! hell piper has said alot of his career was just that abdullah andre compared to todays standards most guys were. they have a very important place in the company. attractions!! guys buy this ppv undertaker will face joe smo brroooocccckkkk leeesssnnnnaaarrr will face so and so it throws instant interest in the ppv

 

[CyberPunk]

There is more to this than simply saying 'they should put over younger talent.' There are so many factors involved. But before we go there, let's see the part timers we have at present.

We have Brock Lesnar, Chris Jericho, RVD and.... The Rock (include Batista if you want to though I don't think he's coming back anytime soon). So, I can recall 4 part timers at this time. Apart from them, we've had The Undertaker and Triple H in part time role (Undertaker more than Trips). So what do they bring to the table?

For starters, all these names are comparatively more over than your main roster full timers (I am talking collectively and not singling our individuals like Cena or Ambrose or Bryan). We have part timers who are more of enhancement talents than anything else. I mean that's what an RVD or a Jericho does, right? We have main event part timers in Brock and Rock. For a long time, Undertaker has shown up for one month/day in a year but we don't know if that's going to happen anymore.

Now, if we look at the top of the full time roster, we see the same name again and again. Apart from Ambrose, we don't have anyone 'new' there (ok let's include Rollins as well). The IWC darlings (I hate this name) Cesaro, Ziggler, Wyatt etc are nearly not as over as we'd like to think. Two full timers who became popular during last 3 years and garnered some mainstream attention (Punk and Bryan) are not active at this time. So what does WWE do?

Eventually, WWE is trying to make money. I don't like part timers hogging the spotlights either, but what options do WWE has as business owners. Part of the mentioned names not being as over as they falls on WWE itself as there has been inconsistent and incoherent booking (Wyatt and Cesaro anyone?). So in the end, it's that short term solution. Let's bring in part timers to boost ratings. Do they actually bring ratings in? It's anybody's guess. But by simply looking at reactions, it seems they do. I don't think a superstar can generate interest unless he/she has something to work with. That's Brock's value. He in himself is a story. That makes him perfect heel. Same can't be said of a Jericho or RVD. The only thing I wonder is what it does to the morale of the people who are busting their rears off day in day out. What do they think when someone who works 10% the number of days and gets paid almost 10 times? Are they fine with where they are?

Entertainment business is cruel. And WWE is trying to bring interest in a form of entertainment which is no longer hip. So, when a Rock or Brock show up, it generates that interest they are looking for. While Jerichos or RVDs don't garner the same interest, they aren't getting same kind of pay I suppose. Just imagine if Batista would've come back after Guardians instead of before it. That would've been different. As much as we want the current and future crop of talent to succeed, do they generate that interest that may be a Brock does? Has WWE built someone who can garner that kind of interest?

 

[DCLXVI]

If you listen to a recent Jericho interview he says it's a HUGE misconception that he is there to put over young talent, but he gets labeled as doing so. He said he'd always like to win like anybody and regrets losing to Fandango on his WrestleMania debut. These guys are older and just don't want to deal with the travel schedule and have other things going on... is it worth it? Maybe. RVD still gets a pop even though he can't move like he used to and I guess the endgame is to pit younger guys on the rise against storied former champions, so yes.

Brock is a different story, he really can't be denied as the most credible champion right now and his part time status honestly adds to to the mystique. When you hear his music unexpectedly and he comes out it is mayhem.

 

[sMark]

There are limited amount of wrestlers who i think worth it - Jericho, Angle, Lesnar, Rock, Austin, Sting, maybe Undertaker & Batista, others don't. When i see part timer on my TV screen i think about 3 things - what he can do in a match, can he entertain me, and what attention he will bring to the show.
When part timer get a match on PPV or appear on TV show he indeed steal some time and a spot on the card, but everyone else who appear on the same show/card benefit from more eyes watching.

 

[Navi]

If Brock, wasn't champion I wouldn't have a problem with him being a part timer.
BUT, the problem I have with part timers is when they get involved with the titles. I think part timers should be putting over the younger current superstars like Chris Jericho does.

This. Wrestlers like RVD, Jericho can go and work a good match. HHH I wouldn't call a part timer, but he's one of the best heels going, and he can still work a match if needed. Just look at the Evolution/Shield matches, and his match with Bryan at Wrestlemania.

Is Kane a part timer, I wouldn't say so. He's on TV every week, and he still does the house show circuit. In reality he should stop and stop now. Lesnar I only have an issue with because of his sporadic attempts to defend the title. That's a WWE decision but it's a bad one in my eyes. It doesn't make the title seem more unreachable, it's more like telling the whole entire locker room, none of you are good enough to beat the champ, so there. He does bring in new fans and raises the buyrates for PPV's, but what's the point if he's not on said PPV's. Who's going to pay money not to watch him.

Hogan is fine at shilling the network and doing promo's, cause let's be real, that's about all he can do now. Even although he thinks he has one moment of glory left. And the Rock, awesome promo's, and I would love to see him put Reigns over.

So what it boils down to is, yes they are worth it if used properly. Fans want to see their hero's, and if they can still go in the ring, then let them.

 

[Dowdsy McDowds]

I can't remember what thread I read it in but someone raised an interesting point about Jericho putting people over; how big a deal is it to score a win over someone who has had an awful win-loss record since going part-time? Bray Wyatt aside, Jericho seems to pretty much lose to everyone he enters a short-term feud with and the crowd reacts warmly to Jericho regardless, so his winning or losing to an up-and-comer isn't actually doing that much for anyone.

I actually like that Brock has the title but isn't appearing regularly. Yes injuries have played a huge part in this strategy but this is a good way to build up the importance for the title again while WWE get their ducks in a row.

I'd mark the fuck out if Angle returned on a night that Heyman and Lesnar cut a promo about no-one worthy or capable of beating Lesnar. Brock retaining over one of his greatest rivals would be a great throw-back to the Smackdown days and further enhance the profile of the one who does beat Brock, presuming it would be Bryan, Reigns or Ambrose rather than, say, Taker or Cena or Rock.

Angle is someone I do really want to see clean and healthy and performing again. He held so much promise when he was starting out in WWE and while no-one could call his in-ring accomplishments lacking, if he had stayed in WWE and went to rehab, I think the landscape would be quite different than it is today. Even if it wasn't, everyone can probably think of at least one dream Angle match he could have had in the last 8 years.
But yeh, if he only wrestles 4 months on and off, I'll watch. I'm unclear of the part-time contracts if it just pertains to in-ring competition but he could be a good Manager foil to the Authority too.

 

[FlairFan2003]

It depends on how they are used.

First, the audience already has a built in appreciation for the guys because of their past, in some cases with bigger stars they bring in audience that may have tuned out when they weren’t around. Anything that gets people to watch is good because it gives WWE a chance to expose their product to more people. Maybe I only watch to see wrestler X but while I was watching these new characters hooked me in, now Im interested in the product regardless of whether wrestler X is involved. Of course, the product has to be something people will want to watch for that to work but that has nothing to do with the part timers, that’s on booking and script writing.
Second, the part timers cant be used as jobbers. Just beating a guy has never gotten anyone over in the history of wrestling. The Mountie beat Brett Hart….anybody care ? How about all the world of good it did when Billy Kidman beat Hulk Hogan ?? How about the great career of Rico, who beat Ric Flair ? Maybe you remember Shelton Benjamin, who beat HHH, Flair, & RVD in succession and won the IC Title to boot, his career went nowhere fast. The wins don’t do anything for you. The ability to “get over” depends on how well you are booked over all, not just winning a random match, but your other matches, how you perform in them, how your promos are, etc. Tully Blanchard got way over even though he lost almost every pay off match he had against top fan faves like Dusty Rhodes & Magnum TA. He did win titles and had long reigns with secondary belts so it wasn’t like he never won, but in the payoffs he took the loss pretty consistently. He was however constantly given great opportunities to perform in his matches, lots of promo time, and his feuds typically had plenty of high points for him to look strong. Look at Bray Wyatt as a more recent example, Wyatt got way out of losing a feud vs John Cena than he got by winning one vs Jericho. Against Cena Wyatt had loads of great promos, many moments of dominance in the fued, and he won a high profile cage match. Even losing the payoff in the end did more to elevate him in the eyes of fans than any of the less entertaining work he’s been given against Jericho. Randy Savage is a classic example, he established himself as WWE’s top heel and biggest main event star behind Hogan basically by jobbing to Hogan all through 1986, but he was given lots of screen time, great promos, and lots of great moments in their fued, plus he was allowed far more offense than most of Hogan’s opponents got back then.

Part timers have to win, and they have to win more than they lose. This keeps their characters relevant (unlike Jericho who loses pretty regularly) and keeps fans happy. It also means when they do lose it has more significance and can be used to greater effect in the storyline.

The best recent example of this was in the last decade with Ric Flair & HBK. Both were part timers, wrestling about a third of what full timers do. Flair made more appearances due to his on screen managerial role with Evolution but in terms of actually wrestling they were both doing at their most 50-75 matches per year, far less than 200 a full timer does. Both were treated respectfully onscreen and both won significant matches. However, both were also used in high profile feuds to help elevate younger talent, HBK with Cena & Orton and Flair most notably with Edge. In those cases things worked well because those wrestlers were beating legendary guys (albeit part timers) in well drawn out storylines that gave both characters a good chance to shine. Wins over those two meant more also since they weren’t high profile jobbers either, they won big matches on RAW & PPV, even though they’re over all record was probably around .500.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

This...

Jericho bombed this time because he has been the whipping boy so often he is no longer this "bulletproof" guy they thought they had... it only ever worked as it did cos every now and then, he'd win the title randomly or headline Mania, something to basically "recharge" his power meter, allowing him to then put someone over far far better.

Should someone like that get another World title? cos if he does it's clearly so he can lose it to someone else... so probably not. But in terms of Jericho, he could still be of use if they give him the 10th IC titlel run on his return and let him hold it till he leaves again while ACTUALLY DEFENDING IT. Then when he came back for his "final run" the batteries are recharged.

There is this "stigma" that Part timers basically should be there to put new guys over... rubbish. They are part time because they are of a stature in the business where they are considered attractions and to be used more sparingly than the rank and file of the roster... they "paid their dues" so to speak, so a house show in Portland shouldn't be on their radar. Brock takes this to extremes of course with the limited dates for maximum money, but in reality it's not that much different to Jericho... just he will do 25 dates in 3 months rather than 15 for the year and those dates have to be focused or it's not worth his time.

Someone like RVD could have been far better used, but the nature of his life and devotion to the herb is that he worked out a deal with WWE... 3 months with them and "off" and then 3-4 off WWE and "on" with his smoking. It's a comprimise sensible in today's world for a guy who was fired for something that's now 100% legal where he lives. He won't be winning many matches though and as such the value to WWE is diminished... for him, it's money and he doesn't really care.. if he did, he'd not have asked for the special deal.

Batista was the more cynical one... it flopped because a lot of fans saw it for what it was, him trying to get into the public eye before his "big movie" came out... ironically it was the best thing that could have happened as his return was SO hated and went SO badly that even those who booed Bootista and slated him were so stunned by Guardians and the good work he did that his next return is gonna be MONEY. He's not winning an Oscar for it but now people get the changes, why he was different... had his run gone better then they might have backlashed on the movie a bit... Batista now has that "you never know what you got till it's gone" thread throughout his career, so his returns will be far more valuable and lucrative. Guardians is quickly on its way to the biggest movie of all time once the DVD sales kick in...for a little while... but WWE isn't gonna mind having 2 of their guys in movies drawing in the Billions at the box office who show up every now and then...even if not for a match.

 

[FromGlasgow]

To be honest I watch most WWE shows on fast forward but any appearances by guys like RVD, Jericho, Rock, Lesnar, Undertaker, Hogan, Flair, Hitman, HBK etc I do watch in its entirety so if I'm not the only one maybe thats why WWE keeps using them occasionally, With the exception of a couple like Daniel Bryan who's out with injury or maybe Cesaro not many of the current wrestlers interest me but I do think its also unfair that these guys are returning and just show up and take all the main event wrestlemania spots when the others have worked hard all year to either be left off of the show completely or thrown into like a forgettable battle royal match but on the other hand if there were no part timers at wrestlemania I'm not sure how high their buy rate would be.

 

[Jonyboyuk2]

ANYONE from Hulk Hogan, Eric Bischoff, HBK, Bret Hart, Chris Jericho, Ric Flair, Piper, Hall, Nash, Jake Roberts, Undertaker, Lesnar, Stone Cold, Rock and so on are worth being paid to appear as part timers.
Firstly because every single last one of them paid their dues with on the road night after night; some for over 40 years. They have fans and they should be respected when they are present on tv or in arenas.
Secondly, they add things to storylines; create interest for us all. For example; I have no interest in Cena angles. But I was in to his angles with Rocky, and also whenever he is with Bret Hart.

What I would say is there are some performers that are over their peak; can't wrestle as well as they used to and take up tv time from young up and comers. They shouldn't be about.

 

[MartialHorror]

It varies. Brock at least has been utilized pretty well. Rob Van Dam on the other hand...he really doesn't bring a lot to the table anymore. He seemingly lost more than he won, making victories over him seem insignificant.

Jericho is a more complicated case because even when his job is to...well, job to people...He still is incredibly entertaining on the mic. Part of the problem I had with the Bray feud is that it required Jericho toning down his natural strengths. Whenever he bantered with the authority, it made me wish he was feuding with them instead.

But every situation is different.

 

[Starkiller]

I have no problem with part timers if they are top draw status like rock, Jericho, Brock.

I love how they have built up brock, ending the streak, beating cena clean which was unheard of. it really freshened things up. I have no problem with Brock being the champ as he is the top heel right now and is a prize fighter. If anything this should help the IC and US titles get more exposure.

 

[Scrotie McBoogerballs]

Well people complain we have the same matches over and over, so at least having a few part timers freshens things up a bit. If Brock wasn't Champ we would be on our 7th Orton v Cena match since Mania.